I recieved a letter from the council on Friday asking me to pay my rent for 2007, ??? payable within 28 days or my tenancy will be terminated. >: I rang the council and told them I have paid this and if I hadn't then I surely would not be able to have kept my allotment for the next two years and paid for 2008 and 2009. The rude bird on the phone said that their records show I haven't paid so if I haven't got a receipt to prove it I would have to pay or lose my lottie, I explained that I don't have the receipt because I no longer have it etc etc. Because I am advised by my council to be green I shredded my stuff and put it in my composter on the lottie, I know I should have kept it but I had a shredding session about three weeks ago and I think it went then, thinking I have the one when I started on the lottie and this years receipt I thought that would be OK but no, if you no longer have it then you will have to pay, well I lost my rag and swore as I slammed the phone down, ringing a bloke Monday to speak to him, not very happy. >:( >:( >:(
Hi Corny, >:(
Did you pay by cash? I ask `cus I had the same experience a few years ago but I had written a cheque so I was able to prove I`d paid. Now I always write cheques and get receipts which I ask to be stapled to the invoice.
I`d pay the B***gers ... And then always get receipts.
I wouldn`t give up my plot even if I had to pay twice over.
Col
When I paid this year, the clerk asked if I wanteda receipt. I siad no-hadn't thought something like this could happen! >:(
Reckon it's thier fault kev for not ' logging ' it -- shoddy accountancy !
You can't prove you paid it -- but they can't prove you didn't !
If push comes to shove, tell them you will dispute thier alligations in court ---
don't think that you would hear any more from them !
floss xxx
The poor sods have picked on the wrong one here ain't they Kev.
Thanks for the replies, yes I paid cash so no stub as proof, and I'm afraid I won't pay twice its just the way I am too stubborn I suppose, It sounds daft but I would rather lose it on principle and fight it later. When I paid it my OH was with me, she remembers because its in the same building as she works the Enfield civic centre. I have the phone number of the lottie bloke I met him on my plot this year when he re-measured my plot, he correctly said it was 6 poles not the 9 they had been charging me so theres a couple of years they've been over charging. I will be going to see them personly if I get no joy ringing this bloke on Monday and YES Shirl I will be taking my shop stewards head with me. >:( >:( >:(
Ask them to show you their books proving you did not pay...... Good luck matey.
Umm.... Monday's a Bank Holiday.......
Sounds like a major pain in the Harris though......
Its a bank holiday on Monday. Take reporter from the local rag with you when you go. And don't lose your temper it wont get you any where. Good luck.
Sorry Ian but I knew you'd bite.
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I wonder if somebody has been taking the p!ss out of councillors. They do have a countrywide brotherhood you know.
Kev, go for it matey, ask them to prove you did not pay. Also they owe you for charging extra for 9poles. Stand your ground you are a
" cockerny ";D ;D ;D ;D.
If it's Today that you are going to meet the councillors the Best of luck Kev. :)
(http://irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)
"This is not the allotment rent you are looking for....."
Yes I forgot Monday was a bank holiday but I work them so it was just another day to me, I have just rang the guy whose phone number our site sec gave me and I explained that my receipts are shredded and composting in my bin at the lottie he also has a lottie so is I hope a bit more clued up. He seemed to listen :-\ and gave the impression that there have been a few mistakes on the admin side of things. So he said he would ring me back later when he looked into it. ??? ??? ??? :-\ :-\ :-\
Enfield Council allotment department are useless, as they had noone in that department as she had left. I did apply for the job, as it was advertised, when I had retired but got no answer, although I was probably overqualified for the job but too old. They gave me an allotment five years ago and I planted it, then they said I couldn't have it because they had to evict the old tenant, so I looked at others and one of the ones they said I could have was the one they had given me that I couldn't have. I have now got it, but luckily they have given me a full allotment instead of half, which I wanted it the first place, and I think they have got so confused, and I am confused that they just said keep it, as my lovely apple tree is doing well there. I really don't think they know what they are doing, but I suppose that with all the sites in Enfield and no one in accounts, who knows if I had taken on the job I was have certainly have let you have it, but never, ever pay cash and don't keep receipts as you have no proof you have paid. I think it is passed to different department and Civic Centre (not to misalign your partner) are not the brightest sparks in the plug, if you see what I mean.
Hi Borlotti, from what I can make out nobody stays in the lottie department for any longer than two years, I think its a scale 2 so they use it as a side stepping stone to get to other departments, our site sec is getting tied of dealing with different people all the time, the bloke I spoke to today seemed OK and he was the one who came to our lottie to measure up and downsized mine from 9 to 6 poles, he has an allotment further up the A10 from you but I have heard he's going in 6 months so theres no real ambition in the department to keep them there. ??? ??? ???
Hi Kev
If the council try to evict you they'll need to convince a judge at the county court that a.) you didn't pay the rent, and b.) it would be fair in the circumstances to evict you. The council probably haven't thought through their action so there's a good chance when they see you're insistent that you paid your bill they'll give up, especially if they realize their accounting is in a shambols. However, sometimes the trolls that people council departments are a little short on insight and they might just try taking it to court. You'll need documentary evidence that a.) you've been reasonable, and b.) you probably paid the rent. Use the Freedom of Information Act to get from the council the number of other tenants who their records suggest didn't pay in 2007, and the number of them who subsequently turned up with a receipt. Minute your conversations with the council objectively, especially the bits where they admit that there is some confusion in the accounting. Invite discussion, but don't make any suggestion that there's the slightest possibility that you didn't pay the bill, or that you would be prepared to pay even the smallest portion of it again. Make a formal complaint of maladministration and insist that the council process it through their complaints procedure - it'll take ages, and if they don't follow the procedure and try and evict you the judge will take a dim view of their behaviour.
If they're not cooperating you might want to go on the attack too. Dig out your tenancy agreement and see what it says about rent and eviction - note that it won't be the "Notice to Quit" clause, it'll be the clause about defaulting on terms of the agreement - they're different. It's possible that the agreement was drafted so badly that the council doesn't even have the power to evict you. Does the agreement have a clause to allow the council to increase the rent? If it doesn't then counter-claim for all the increases they've imposed since you got the plot. Were you given 12 months written notice for any rent increase, and was the rent increased by reference to CPI/RPI, because if not any increase is unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and again you should counter-claim for the unfair increase - back to 1999. And then quibble about the validity of the S.146 notice they've already served on you. They'll wish they'd never started.
Quote from: flossy on May 03, 2009, 19:06:15
Reckon it's thier fault kev for not ' logging ' it -- shoddy accountancy !
You can't prove you paid it -- but they can't prove you didn't !
If push comes to shove, tell them you will dispute thier alligations in court ---
don't think that you would hear any more from them !
floss xxx
Love this one from Flossy: You have them by the same part of their anatomy as they have by your's....!
....and why pay the following two years as you have done.??
Brave it out, Corny. You have common sense on your side.
Ken.
Not being nasty to anyone so please don't take offence but can I have Unwashed on my side?
Must remember to keep in unwashed's good books.
Bill
Quote from: Bill Door on May 06, 2009, 20:52:06
Not being nasty to anyone so please don't take offence but can I have Unwashed on my side?
No offence taken Bill. (now where's my little black book...)
Seriously though, I've seen too many good gentle people pushed around on their allotments, and we don't deserve this kind of rubbish. Of course the first response is always to be nice and friendly because anyone can make a silly mistake, but there's something about being in charge of allotments that brings out the tin-pot dictator, and we shouldn't put up with it.
Don't worry unwashed I won't be pushed around but if its going no where I may call you in to bamboozle them, thinking of it I'm going to give them another ring. ;D ;D ;D
Don't worry, I am sure they will be quite reasonable, if not, I will arrange a protest match and we can all go to the Civic Centre and wave banners that say 'Save Cornys allotment' or else.
Cheers Borlotti, I rang the fella earlier and he said he's had a word with who ever it concerned and it has fell on deaf ears, I explained that I have no proof because I shredded all my paperwork 3/4 weeks ago and composted it on my lottie the green way that my council advises us to do so, he basically agreed with we but said theres not much more he could do, so I am ringing or writing to his boss tomorrow and telling her that in fact I have been paying over the odds for the past four years and they will probably owe me money in the end, I have also told him that I have a solicit er involved, so its onward and upwards, better start painting them banners Borlotti. ;D ;D ;D
Seems a lot of arseache to me. Pay them the money. Then argue about it later or hold back this years. If you have been over charged then they will return it. So either way you get your money.
If it turns out they have made mistake then go for them. Not worth the hassle. Seems a bit daft to cut your nose to spite your face.
Just my opnion.
As you said flunky, your opinion but not mine so I'll do it my way its called principal. ;D ;D ;D
I like a man of principles ;D
They should have given me the job, or at least an application form when I applied for it, but think the lady who had the job was never there. That was probably the time she lost your money. Don't think she was dishonest but just a bit confused of Enfield. I certainly thought the department was completely in disarray 5/6 years ago, but do agree it has got much better lately and find them quite helpful. I suppose because the income from allotments is quite small they would rather deal with Council tax. Didn't get my allotment bill from the Treasurers Department until late this year and some people never one. Let me know when I should painting my banner 'SAVE CORNY'S ALLOTMENT', don't think you really have to worry, I am sure it is just 'a storm in a teacup' and as they admitted to me their paper work years ago was not too good.
Contact your local paper? They usually love to cover a spat with the council, especially if accompanied with pics of large vegetables. Wouldnt be surprised if the council have done this to other people too.
Like Flunky I would just cough up eventually to get them off my case, but perhaps our waiting lists are longer than yours!
Well if Corny is going to contact the local paper give me a chance to get my hair done and wear my best clothes before I stand outside the Council offices with my banner. Do like to look my best in a photograph. As an old age pensioner, hopefully I can protest without getting arrested.
Borlotti cancel your hair appointment, rip up your banners, principals won it in the end, CORNY CRUSHES COUNCIL, more to follow. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Borlotti on May 07, 2009, 19:36:16
Well if Corny is going to contact the local paper give me a chance to get my hair done and wear my best clothes before I stand outside the Council offices with my banner. Do like to look my best in a photograph. As an old age pensioner, hopefully I can protest without getting arrested.
We have to wear clothes?.... there goes my best way of protest..... oh... he won?...... Hurrah for the effectiveness of fully-clothed protest!!.....
Kev did you ask for compensation ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: shirlton on May 28, 2009, 09:00:22
Kev did you ask for compensation ;D ;D ;D
I was recently advised (after our council sent out threatening final demands without having sent out the invoices in the first place) that the best way to claim compensation is under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, which allows for civil remedy including compensation for anxiety!
(In our case they quickly apologised, so we didn't pursue it ;D )
Quote from: chriscross1966 on May 27, 2009, 23:54:31
We have to wear clothes?.... there goes my best way of protest...
If you ever return goods to Customer services in Supermarkt do you use the same approach...even in Winter??? ;D
Glad to hear you got that payment thing sorted Corneykev.
Hi all, I was just going away the other day so I just left a short message on here. Well Tuesday I rang the council and asked for the woman in charge and was told I had to write or email........not happy :(
I wrote an email and let the OH tart it up a bit.....take out the swear words. :-X
She works for the council so put some stuff in that would make them think a bit. ???
The next day I got a phone call asking if I had got an email from them.....no I've just got in from work......blimey that's quick. ???
The lady on the phone said that my alleged non payment had been quashed and I will get a cheque for £25 for over payments ;).....is there anything else we can do......now they want to be friends...as it happens we have problems with our water.... OK bye.
Four minutes later the maintenance guy rings... blah blah blah.
On the email they say there has been problems with the admin in earlier years... yes I told you so ...and we apologise for any stress we may have caused you. :P
Theres loads more, but I think you get the gist of things.
All well that ends well. ;D ;D ;D
Result!
And well done CK for fighting your corner
Well done, Corny. Glad you got such a good result.
I've heard that letters carry more weight than emails, for some reason.
great stuff Kev :D
Well done you, knew you would win ! ;D
floss xxx
CK FTW!
Frame the letter
DO NOT repeat DO NOT shred it.
Just found this....
Hooray for you!!!!