I admit being skeptical about the moon's influence on growing, but so I don't dismiss it without proper consideration, I have followed Charles Dowding's advice and observed what happens at different phases of the moon.
The results don't seem to confirm any of the moon theories I have heard about, so I thought maybe a moon gardener can explain what is going on in the two photos below.
I have noticed that my leeks and shallots (grown from seed) lean over to the south. Now, as it is nearly new moon, and the moon and sun are almost in line right now, their gravity is pulling almost in the same direction. So this morning, at 0630 CET, I took this photo of my shallots. The camera is facing south, the moon and sun are 90 degrees to the left. The plants are not leaning towards the moon at all.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/33as5dx.jpg)
Now this next photo is taken 6 hours later, at noon, camera facing east. It is the same plants, clearly leaning to the south, towards the sun and moon.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2lcbmv6.jpg)
It seems obvious to me that the shallots are growing towards the midday sun, and that morning gravity does not pull them round at all. However, I just wondered if a moon gardener can explain in moon terms why the plants only lean south?
There are 4 reasons why plants 'lean' in any direction:
Away from shade - towards the light.
Bent by the wind.
Damage.
On sloping ground they will try and grow vertically (apart from the above).
A particular strain of plant might grow in an unusual manner due to genetic factors.
As to alignments between the sun & moon - well thats in the category of fairies, santa clause, ley lines, elvis is still alive, porridge is edible, etc.
Watching this thread with interest :)
Just out of interest are you by the coast with an offshore breeze with the wind coming from the North?
I don't know enough about this subject yet, but my basic understanding is that in a new moon phase the gravitational pull is at it's greatest so it pulls water up enabling seeds to swell and burst. Increased moonlight creates balanced leaf and root growth. Not sure I would expect the plants to lean under the influence of gravitational pull, I would suspect it maybe one or more of the 4 points that GodfreyRob suggested.
Would be interesting to hear some other thoughts....
I've said it all before and I'm not wasting my time again.
Quote from: 70fingers on April 23, 2009, 18:47:44
Watching this thread with interest :)
Just out of interest are you by the coast with an offshore breeze with the wind coming from the North?
I don't know enough about this subject yet, but my basic understanding is that in a new moon phase the gravitational pull is at it's greatest so it pulls water up enabling seeds to swell and burst. Increased moonlight creates balanced leaf and root growth. Not sure I would expect the plants to lean under the influence of gravitational pull, I would suspect it maybe one or more of the 4 points that GodfreyRob suggested.
Would be interesting to hear some other thoughts....
We are about 1500 metres from the sea here, but when I took the photos, it was total calm. In any case, the veggie beds are well sheltered on all 4 sides. The wind played no part.
On gravitational pull and moving water, I think it is worth remembering that the sun's gravity force on us is almost 200 times stronger than the moon's. It takes a bit of computation with vectors to understand, but the moon's weak gravity has a rather bigger influence on tides than the sun simply because the moon is much closer. But the tides are formed by a "sideways" force, not a vertical one. The tidal force doesn't pull water "up", it pulls it sideways. As the photos show, my shallots don't bend sideways to the strongest thinkable tidal force at all, which is why I cannot understand the idea that the moon pulling water about should affect the growth of my shallots.
i think most of you are misunderstanding the whole concept of what moon gardening is suppose what is supposed to achieve. I don't believe there is any benefit to moon gardening except regimenting the planting times of veg. Since the increase in production values that moon gardening is supposed to achieve really do not meet that of the hype of it proponents.
The way plants face is nothing to do with the gravitational pull of the sun or moon. It's all due to the fact that's the direction the longest and strongest light comes from.
Gravitropism in the stem???
Quote from: 70fingers on April 24, 2009, 19:49:53
Gravitropism in the stem???
I had that once. Couldn't ride my bicycle for a fortnight
Haha ;D
I read something about moon planting and decided to give it a go with early peas and broad beans. It sowed seed on the correct day and was quite pleased witht the results.
however for the second batch I came to a day which I felt was the right day for sowing (what I call a green finger day)so I sowed some peas, a few days later was a moon day for fruit so I sowed some more, and a few days later was a non so I sowed some more.
My results were that the first lot did the best and the last lot was worst they did not come up well and never grew well at all, finally the slugs ate them.
I have repeated this several time and it is always the same, the green finger days are best followed by the moon and other days are a right off. So in my opinion those who can sense when to sow will do the best but for everyone else the moon day is a good compromise,
Quote from: 70fingers on April 24, 2009, 19:49:53
Gravitropism in the stem???
Exactly my point. There is no gravitropism in the stem due to moon or sun, otherwise we could see the plants bending east in the morning, which they are not.
Quote from: Rhubarb Thrasher on April 24, 2009, 19:53:26
I had that once. Couldn't ride my bicycle for a fortnight
Hope I don't catch it then, I've just bought a new bike to go to my plot on.
Quote from: Bjerreby on April 24, 2009, 06:05:36
On gravitational pull and moving water, I think it is worth remembering that the sun's gravity force on us is almost 200 times stronger than the moon's. It takes a bit of computation with vectors to understand, but the moon's weak gravity has a rather bigger influence on tides than the sun simply because the moon is much closer. But the tides are formed by a "sideways" force, not a vertical one. The tidal force doesn't pull water "up", it pulls it sideways. As the photos show, my shallots don't bend sideways to the strongest thinkable tidal force at all, which is why I cannot understand the idea that the moon pulling water about should affect the growth of my shallots.
Tidal force is a differential force, you don't feel it at any single point, it's only if you're really big - like an ocean - that you appreciate that the moon's gravity is just a little stronger on the side of the earth nearest to the moon, and just a little weaker on the opposite side.
The sun's gravity is 200 times the strength of the moon's, but the earth's gravity is 1000 times the strength of the sun's. Although plants do have gravity-sensitive cells so that they know to grow up, I think it very unlikely that they'd be able to detect the slight variation of that 'up' direction, and if they could they'd be responding to the daily movement of the sun, not the much weaker monthly movement of the moon.
What could conceivably have an effect is moonlight, but as far as I'm aware there is no scientific evidence to support the idea that growing with the phase of the moon has any affect.
Thanks for that unwashed...................and by the way, have a wash. ;)
I was hoping that a moon theory adherent would reply, but alas.
I kept my own description of tides very simple because it is in fact quite difficult to explain why the moon's infuence on tides is greater than the sun's, despite the sun's gravity being stronger here on Earth than the moon's.
By the way, have you seen thatwebsite called "Journey to forever"? Very interesting online library there. I was particularly interested in "Common sense compost making" by Maye E Bruce. She started out with the Rudolph Steiner sect, and decided she wanted to "spill the beans" about their esoteric methods but didn't dare. Then it seems she decided that yarrow and dandilions and nettles were not the creation of Rudolph Steiner or Demeter, and she wrote her article.
How sad that her paper starts off so interesting, but leaves me thinking about sorcery. Why put a teaspoon of honey in your new compost heap?
possibly for the enzymes it contains? or the various sugars / pollens? ;)
Quote from: tonybloke on April 26, 2009, 23:23:36
possibly for the enzymes it contains? or the various sugars / pollens? ;)
I think that is what she was getting at, but as she writes herself, her compost is the result of a lot of trial and error. She didn't base her efforts on any theory she had, other than "only life creates life".
I thought dried and powdered yarrow and nettles were dead. ???
I have to say that I get very fine compost in just a few months without adding a minute drop of yarrow / nettle / dandelion / honey mixture. And while I concede there are many things we don't understand, I haven't yet come across the first evidence that compost starter mixes send "radiation" through the compost pile. That is pure supposition, and it spoilt what I thought was otherwise an interesting artcle. :-[