I've cracked the multi-purpose compost issue for my annuals. Now I need advice on avoiding peat in loam based compost/soil for shrubs in containers please. Digging it out of my borders is not an option.
G x
QuoteDigging it out of my borders is not an option.
Dig it out of someone else's border.
I used to make my own version with leafmould rather then peat.
Not very helpful folks. I want to know what I can buy in as a JI2/3 substitute.
G x
Georgie I've been using this brand for most things this year, if you email them I'm sure they can come up with something
http://yhs.uk.com/eMerchantPro/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=4
Linda
I'm sorry if the comments are not helpful but there is no adequate substitute for John Innes composts on the market. If ready-made JI composts are not to your liking the choice remaining is to buy lower grade substitutes or make your own.
I am not happy with anything currently on the market so I make my own to my liking. It's time consuming and requires planning but it is always there and always up to standard.
Toby Bucklandis doing a GW special on peat alternatives tonight- maybe he'll have some ideas.
Thanks Eristic... I had been reading this as J 12 and J 13 yesterday and hadn't got my head round what it was all about!!! :-[
Quote from: downtoearth on March 26, 2009, 23:03:00
Georgie I've been using this brand for most things this year, if you email them I'm sure they can come up with something
http://yhs.uk.com/eMerchantPro/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=4
Linda
Looks good, Linda. Email sent.
Many thanks
G x
Quote from: Eristic on March 26, 2009, 23:49:19
I'm sorry if the comments are not helpful but there is no adequate substitute for John Innes composts on the market. If ready-made JI composts are not to your liking the choice remaining is to buy lower grade substitutes or make your own.
I am not happy with anything currently on the market so I make my own to my liking. It's time consuming and requires planning but it is always there and always up to standard.
Hi Eristic. It's not that JI composts don't work for me, it's that I'm trying to be peat free. With a very small garden it's only possible to produce limited amounts of home made potting compost and never enough for my requirements. So I have no choice but to buy in. The link Linda has posted looks promising. :)
Quote from: caroline7758 on March 27, 2009, 10:08:07
Toby Bucklandis doing a GW special on peat alternatives tonight- maybe he'll have some ideas.
I read his article in the March edition of GW magazine, Caroline. I have been thinking of going peat free for sometime and the article gave me the nudge I needed. I don't watch TV but if he does mention peat free loam-based products I'd love to hear about them. :)
Quote from: saddad on March 27, 2009, 10:40:59
Thanks Eristic... I had been reading this as J 12 and J 13 yesterday and hadn't got my head round what it was all about!!! :-[
Sorry Saddad.
G x
I found the programme raised as many questions as it answered. Think we're clear about the environmental problems of peat, but it seems that a lot of the alternatives (and a lot of the peat) are shipped in from the other side of the world so have their own environmental impact.
The chap from Kew said they saved thousands by having their own massive compost heaps and horse manure from the royal stables, but then the chap in their greenhouse was using coir for sowing.
Has anyone bought coir on its own, if so where from? I've seen coir-based compost, but never coir alone.
It seems to me that the Government's target of gardeners using 90% peat free products by 2010 is hopelessly unrealistic given the lack of good quality peat free mediums available at the moment. New Horizon products have the best press but they are difficult to get around here and stocks go very quickly. And no, Caroline, I haven't seen coir for sale in my travels but then again, I haven't really been looking for it.
G x
Coir has to be imported from the tropics so it's not exactly environmentally friendly!
That's what I meant, Robert!
I've been using Westland "Earth Matters"peat-free and was pleased to see that it was one of the best in the Which trial, but I still feel bad for supporting Westland as they are still harvesting so much peat.
QuoteIt seems to me that the Government's target of gardeners using 90% peat free products by 2010 is hopelessly unrealistic given the lack of good quality peat free mediums available at the moment.
I disagree. We are awash with so much compost it ought to be delivered to our doorstep free of charge. The problem is that corporations insist on making mega profits without putting in the effort to produce a useable product.
The waste recycling plants are turning round their piles in a matter of weeks but compost grade material requires a full year to decompose properly in this country. Shredding the rubbish and turning it brown is not sufficient but that is all you get in most bags these days. The makers do not even have the decency to sieve it out.
But even that could be supplied free to Allotment site who could compost it further... ???
Quote from: caroline7758 on March 28, 2009, 11:14:21
That's what I meant, Robert!
I've been using Westland "Earth Matters"peat-free and was pleased to see that it was one of the best in the Which trial, but I still feel bad for supporting Westland as they are still harvesting so much peat.
I have been pleased with Westlands peat-free compost too - I use it for everything!
At a local potato day I did see a company that uses peat filtered from water from reservoirs around the pennines - the peat runs off the pennines moors (natural erosion or not)
Their products were not that cheap - but prices lowered a bit when buying in bulk.
http://www.organiccompost.org.uk/compost.html
Moorland Gold or something...... :-\
You say;
Quote
I've cracked the multi-purpose compost issue for my annuals. Now I need advice on avoiding peat in loam based compost/soil for shrubs in containers please.
Basically all composts have the same base mixture peat/peat substitute plus sand.
Ji is a bit different in so far as it has loam in it.
To take this a stage further; each supplier has their own mix designs, of which JI is one.
What they all have in common is; they are designed as 'potting composts'
The numbering on JI mixes simply means they have one, two or three measures of fertiliser added to a given amount of base mix.
This means that with any base compost eg the one you use for your annuals can be adjusted to give a similar effect i.e. add more fertiliser, and if you insist on JI add more loam.
This is now made very easy in this modern age because John Innes, Chempak & Vitax all do a fertiliser that turns a multi purpose into a potting compost of a strength to suit you needs.
Many years ago you had to be a veritable chemist and buy all the ingredients, weigh/measure them out and mix them now all that is done for you.
I tend to buy multi purpose (because it is relatively cheap) for things such as annuals, and for for things that will be in pots for a short while I buy potting.
For plants that are going to be in pots for a lifetime I mix my own, using one of the base mixes mentioned above.
I either use M/purpose or potting for this with home made compost from my dalek compost bins.(Loam)
I was pleased to see that I grow like some of these growers on that TV programme last night. When my stuff is small I use peat as the plug grower does and I eventually finish up growing like the Kew gardeners do with my 'home brew'
To put my tuppence haporth in about the pro and cons of using/not using peat I think the plug grower has it right for starting plants off..........peat only as there is nothing better!
I think more should be done with alternative materials such as coir/bark/ farm & Zoo manure etc. Where if needs must; the total product contains a maximum of 20% peat not the 80% as is now.
I thought the most criminal thing that came across last night was using a peat based product as a soil improver.............make your own, get farmyard/ stable manure council recycled manures but not PEAT based products.
Finally would you believe it?
I don't consider my self to be an organic gardener as such, but then thats another story.
Quote from: caroline7758 on March 28, 2009, 11:14:21
That's what I meant, Robert!
I've been using Westland "Earth Matters"peat-free and was pleased to see that it was one of the best in the Which trial, but I still feel bad for supporting Westland as they are still harvesting so much peat.
That is what I like about New Horizon - it's bloody good and peat free and it's makers J Arthur Bowers have and are reducing the use of peat in all their products. Oh, and it is made in Lincoln by a good Lincoln company - have I said that before ;D
Yes, I've used New Horizon for years and found it really good- but Wyevale didn't have any deals on itwhen I went so was swayed by the deal onthe Westland stuff, which I don't like as much- it's more "woody" than NH.
I don't like the Westland stuff either, Caroline. The New Horizon looks much better but as it's the results that matter I'll have to hold my counsel until I see the results later in the year.
Tee Gee thank you very much for your contribution to this debate. I'm going to admit something now. I hadn't realised that home made compost was 'loam'! I don't know what I thought it was but this is music to my ears. I've got about 200 litres ready for harvest so I'll be mixing it with peat free multi-purpose and adding organic slow release fertilizer as you describe. You have made my day. ;D
G x
QuoteTee Gee thank you very much for your contribution to this debate.
Your welcome!
QuoteI hadn't realised that home made compost was 'loam'!
Well it is and it isnt!
Loam generally comes from lawn turves laid on top of each other and left to rot for a year or so.
The stuff from the dalek is rotted down vegetative material and generally doesn't have any topsoil in it.
It is this topsoil in the JI that gives it, its particular characteristics.
To alleviate this I often empty plant pots into my daleks as the compost in these is often soil like.
So your dalek material will be loam like subject to what you recycle/compost in it.
Having said that; it is near enough for me and it contains a lot more humus & weight than soiless composts! and it is free!!
By the way; A word of warning ; your dalek compost won't be sterilised so expect a few weeds popping up.
Okay so you are stretching the truth a bit, eh? ;)
'Loam generally comes from lawn turves laid on top of each other and left to rot for a year or so.'
I knew that. My lawn has been reduced to a mere 'path' now and I've had some wonderful loam from the turves but sadly it has all been used up.
'So your dalek material will be loam like subject to what you recycle/compost in it.'
The usual green and brown waste which I top off with a couple of inches of spent compost everytime I add new material.
'Having said that; it is near enough for me and it contains a lot more humus & weight than soiless composts!'
That's what I'm after as soiless composts alone are no good for shrubs in containers.
'Your dalek compost won't be sterilised so expect a few weeds popping up.'
LOL tell me about it! Still it's not really a problem providing you pull them when they are tiny - one advantage of a small garden I guess. :)
G x
There was a government study about 15 years ago into alternatives for peat. One of the best alternatives is actually composted ferns cut in late July just prior to them setting seed and then composted in large bins. It's been very noticible the lack of fields of growing ferns.