Here in Birmingham and Solihull, the waiting lists are unbelievably long.
If this is the case, why are the plots generally overgrown and in a state when a new tenant receives a plot? Surely they don't just leave a plot empty for months?
It is actually quite difficult to get tenants off plots, even if they are not cultivating, we are private and have had to work very hard to get rid of "dead wood"... as long as some one is paying the rent I'm sure they don't care about the state of the plot... :-X
hiya,
im very sorry to reply that yes,some people do leave their plots for months on end,often for genuine reasons such as ill health,new baby arrived,sick relative etc...others because they have lost the enthusiasm to continue with their plots but dont approach their committee to let them know or give it up.unfortunately its those folk that cause the problem!
have you got yourselves on a waiting list?
rach
I suspect they probably do. Which is a crying shame.
It depends how your sites are managed and how keen the management are to move people off if they're not working the plot.
As Saddad says, it takes a bit of persistence to evict a tenant, but the site rules usually give grounds if the plot is neglected. Our site rules give guidelines for eviction - in writing giving reasons. Often it's easier to ring the plot holders and find out why it's neglected, if it's lack of enthusiasm they can usually be talked into giving up the plot.
If you know people on the waiting list, I suggest they badger whoever holds the list. Get a site meeting and cause a bit of a stink. It's grossly unfair to let plots stand idle with people keen to get gardening.
Sometimes it is quite difficult to get people to give up their plots. We do regular plot inspections and if we think one is being neglected we send a letter to the tenant, asking if there is any particular reason eg. illness etc. This letter often solves the problem but there are a few people who can't/won't accept the fact that they can no longer manage their plot. In cases like these, I have sometimes managed to persuade them to have their plot split into two halves with them keeping one and a new tenant taking over the other. Even with plots where there is no possibility of the tenant carrying on, a formal procedure has to take place, with notice being given to them. In the meantime, the weeds keep growing.......
Our site rep said the same, that it took time to get someone off a plot, and it didnt take long for the weeds to take over.
Our council doesnt clear plots first, or even offer to do it for a fee (which I would have paid), so I think that puts a lot of people off in the early stages.
Years ago I got an allotment on a different site, and it was on an extreme slope, and covered with brambles that were taller than me. Without a car or any money for tools, there was no way I could tackle it. I should have just said no and waited for something better, but was pressurised to sign up by a boyfriend who insisted that it wouldnt be a problem and he would help me clear it.. then always found something else to do when I asked for help!
Last year we had a family take on 4 plots. They had someone poison it and rake it and burn it. They never came again. It was left for a year to grow again. Thankfully they have now got new tenants on them, but it did take a year for them to make up their mind that they didn't want them. i suppose some folks think that cos they have paid for the year they are keeping it for the year, It's surprising how quicly nature takes the land back. I have nice new neighbours now who are really making an effort to get the plot going. Less weed seed this year.
It takes a couple of years, sometimes more, to get rid of a tenant. Meanwhile, a plot that was often neglected when they took it on is getting even worse. By the time three or four people have fallen by the wayside, the plot may have gone ten years without real cultivation.
Probably a good idea to get pro-active! There is something very sad about people moaning about empty plots and unworked plots beside them and doing nothing. (This is not having a go at anyone - just my thinking - before I upset anyone!!) But it just takes a few plot holders to get talking about how to resolve things - get someone on the Council to take notice - and even if they have paid their rent - they should be evicted if they are not doing anything without just reason.
We have over the past couple of years had a bit of a clearout of the old wood - we have a waiting list - and to me there is nothing worse than wanting a plot and seeing these mismanaged ones. Our Council have a couple of site inspections a year - but - as site representative - I make sure that the Council are told if someone is giving up - even if it halfway through the year. Giving a new tenant a chance to get started during the current year - rather than wait for the weeds to grow until the end of the financial year.
I am not saying that you should be policeing the site - just a few people getting a bit more active about finding out what is what and keeping in touch with the Council could improve matters.
Most tenancies have a clause that the site be kept in good order. If they aren't then give them a warning, then a final warning and lastly kick them out.
Old Bird
;)
Another problem we had on our site was that the plots were too big for many of the newcomers. They average 25 ft x 130 ft (the plots, not the newcomers :) ) Many people started off very enthusiastically but soon realised that getting the plot in order and then keeping the weeds down was a harder job than they had imagined.
When I took over as Site Manager (the Council's title for Secretary!) I decided that when plots became vacant they would be split in half. During the past year I have split ten plots and reduced the waiting-list considerably. All the new tenants are doing really well and many of them have said that a half-size plot is just perfect for them.
I know this won't work on every site, but it's worked for us.
Plots like these are the bane of every Secretary's & Committee's lives! As others have said, folk take on too much (and in the past have been encouraged to take on too much, as allotments weren't that popular and the Committee was happy to have a cheque!). Then it's a struggle to get them to down-size.
And, to be honest, if there really are genuine reasons - health, job, family,etc - why plotholders are neglecting their plots, letting the Committee know their problems is almost certainly quite low down their list of priorities!
Like several others here, when a plot becomes vacant I now split it in two, or even three. Our site is nearly a century old: a full-size plot would have been worked by an agricultural labourer (plus his elder sons) to feed a family of 8 to 10 living in a house with no heating! Now, it's a small family unit who don't need to down a hundredweight of spuds & greens at each meal, but are probably growing finger-sized carrots, cut-and-come-again lettuce and cherry tomatoes! They don't need - and can't necessarily cope with - a full-sized plot.
But yes, we now inspect (very low-key) and I contact people who seem to have problems and write official letters when necessary. And the change in the appearance of the site is phenomenal! Last weekend, three people said to me, quite independently, something along the lines of, "Won't it be good when the whole site looks like this."
There wasn't a waiting list when I got my plot in 2006 but now there is they have started splitting the plots in half which is a good thing, too many people on our site have two plots and they can't maintain one, they also say the secretary is always moaning, its only the last year or so that I walked up the other end of the plots to see what others are up to and I think to myself well he's bloody well intitiled to moan with the state of some of the plots, and as said its hard to throw people off when they've paid there rent make a start here and there and disappear again. >:( ;D ;D ;D
Our site is now making half plots. at least if one of the half plots gives up it's far easier to keep them tidy.
we just send them a letter, stating that they are not complying with tenancy agreement, giving 14 days to rectify the situation (or explain why not) then if nothing done, another letter giving 28 days to quit! no problem!! ;)
Same here 3 strikes and your off !! 1st is a word from the site manager to see if there is a good reason, then i send a warning letter giving them 14 days to get some work done on the plot, if nothing is done they are given 14 days to remove there stuff from the plot and its re-let !
We have people who have cancer, babies ect on site and they manage to keep their plots up together so im afraid i have very little compasion for those who come up with lame excuses ! Life happens and you may need a few weeks to get sorted or if you let the site manager know there is a problem we will help keep the plot weed free until they can get back to the site but to just abandon your plot and leave it to spread weeds onto others plots is just not on with so many people desperate for plots !
we have a similar three tiered system,which starts with a friendly letter asking if they still want the plot/would like to halve it .we have one plotholder who only came to their plot twice in a whole year,ignored ALL our letters then appealed to the council to keep the plot. they gave her two weeks grace to sort her plot out,so she did a small bit of digging on the 13th day,and guess what,hasnt been seen since. thank god we have added a new clause to our constitution that newbies get a 6 month probation period,if they aint cultivated their plots to a good state,they get evicted without the usual three tiered system,ie,no warning,they are all made very very aware of this when they sign up. this person has kept her plot for 18 months now,never grown a thing,and we still have 30 on the waiting list (which has been closed for 2 years) its criminal!!!!!
I've had my new allotment since Christmas, and have been out there working on it most weekends since the beginning of February (before that the plot was flooded by the nearby river). The plot was pretty overgrown and I started clearing it from one end (it's a full size plot).
Today I had a letter from the Council saying that they had inspected my plot and found it to be "uncultivated and weedy", and that I have 28 days to rectify it before the plot is inspected again. I think that's a little unfair to give an overgrown plot to an absolute beginner and then effectively tell them a couple of months later that they are breaking the rules of their contract by not keeping the whole plot under cultivation permanently. :'(
So it seems I have 28 days to dig over my whole allotment and get stuff growing or risk losing it. :'(
I hope you took photos of what it was like before you started.
Play them at their game.......send them a letter stating
1. The river flooded the plot
2. Heavy snow fall and low temperatures meant you couldn't dig and clear when you wanted to.
3. The plot was left in a dire state and you have been working hard each weekend to get it sorted.
Good luck, keep us posted of progress
I'm the Site Secretary/Rep and it is the thing that frustrates me the most. There are only 37 plots on the site and as they have become vacant I have split them in two - sometimes thwarted by the Council who then give the full 10 rods to the first person that asks (Yes CIP/Laing - that's you) >:( >:( >:(
This year there are only two full plots to be halved and a half plot that was taken on last year and not culitivated and 49 people on the waiting list :o :o :o
There are some plot holders who have made a huge effort in the last few months and other who have done virtually nothing - we have a plot inspection after Easter and hopefully that will release another 5 half plots.
It was the same story on our site until allotments became trendy. We have about 30 plots, most are taken now, the council are just splitting the last big plot into four small ones. I believe the problem is annual rents. I think a better system would be monthly rental, also a deposit should be given when you take a plot on,. which is returned when you have used your plot for a lengthy period or given it up. If the plot is given up the deposit should only be handed back once the plot is clean and tidy ready for the next person. If not left clean and tidy, the deposit should go towards the cost of ploughing and clearing the ground.
Quote from: DaveR on March 28, 2009, 21:31:42
I've had my new allotment since Christmas, and have been out there working on it most weekends since the beginning of February (before that the plot was flooded by the nearby river). The plot was pretty overgrown and I started clearing it from one end (it's a full size plot).
Today I had a letter from the Council saying that they had inspected my plot and found it to be "uncultivated and weedy", and that I have 28 days to rectify it before the plot is inspected again. I think that's a little unfair to give an overgrown plot to an absolute beginner and then effectively tell them a couple of months later that they are breaking the rules of their contract by not keeping the whole plot under cultivation permanently. :'(
So it seems I have 28 days to dig over my whole allotment and get stuff growing or risk losing it. :'(
Do you have any photos of the flooding and any from when you took the plot on - before and after stuff? It might help you to explain to the council what is going on
How much of it have you managed to do? Given the sort of winter we've just had, there have probably been periods (apart from the flooding) when the weather was too bad to get on it. If you strimmed the areas you haven't tackled, and put down black plastic, that would help you make your case as they could then see that you were in the process of tackling it.
Hi Cosmo and Dibs - where is your plot? There are a few of us on here. I'm in Solihull at the Jillcott Road site.
Becky
I would ask them if they have made a mistake and think you are the previous tennant and that you have only been there a short time, and hope to have it all cultivated in the next few months as the weather allows.
As the committee member for our site charged with assessing plots, I have found that photgraphing plots at each assessment makes it a lot easier when working out what has (or has not) been done previously to a plot. I agree that if you take over a plot that has been overgrown, expecting it to be pristine in 6 months overwinter is asking a lot. We have a probationary period of 6 months when taking over a plot, full tenancy only commences after that if the person has been actively cultivating.
The first thing I would ask is what the assessment criteria are that all plots are judged against; ours is at least 2/3rds of the available space is cultivated or planted as an orchard. We would allow extra time to sort if the plot was very overgrown when taken over as long as we could see progress. Keep in communication with your committee members/council though, if they hear nothing from you, they will assume you are not bothered about it!
As for getting people off unworked plots, the photos help here too. In the past year since we started the plot assessments, 17 plots have changed hands. I'm doing the next batch in early May, when it should be obvious who is going to turn up for the season of not! they get 6 months notice then, and I keep a monthly eye on the plots to see if they are worked or not, if not they get a final letter and are out.
That's a good idea; we've only been taking pics when we suspect (meaning we know but can't prove) that stuff's being stolen. I'll pass it on.
when i took my plot last may it had been abandoned for 7 years, 3 of those were spent by the council trying to evict the previous tenant which they finally did, in those 7 years nothing was grown, only builders rubbish left. 10 months later it is now ready for planting this summer, but 10 months of hard-work. i imagine there is 100 or so plots on my site 30 maybe are used or being readyed, the rest are coverd by 10 foot brambles. The councils postion: we dont care. 73 people on the waiting list at my site, clear all them plots the list is almost gone. its a simular story acrossed norwich councils area i understand.
That sounds appalling.
Quote from: Lauren S on March 28, 2009, 21:41:19
I hope you took photos of what it was like before you started.
Play them at their game.......send them a letter stating
1. The river flooded the plot
2. Heavy snow fall and low temperatures meant you couldn't dig and clear when you wanted to.
3. The plot was left in a dire state and you have been working hard each weekend to get it sorted.
Good luck, keep us posted of progress
I wrote to the Council and pointed this out. Apparently they run a service for new allotment holders where they will clear all the rubbish off the allotment (there is tonnes of rubbish on mine, left by the previous tenant - oil drums, broken glass, rusty metal etc) and they will rotavate it for me. They neglected to tell me about that when I took the plot on!
I've dug about a quarter of the plot by hand, but it is tempting to get the council to rotovate the rest. What is the received wisdom on here? Should I get in the rotovators? :-\
I would say yes to getting it rotovated. Once its done you can start with a blank canvas, all the hard work will be done for you, you can then concentrate on the planting and weeding.
Deffo no to rotavate it will just make harder work in the long run. ;D ;D ;D
i'd also get the council to rotovate it for you, just be there when the do it as they took all the top soil from my site and just left me clay (i would call it undersoil but there is no soil!).
Good luck
I've gone with the majority view and asked the council to rotavate it. I'd only managed to dig a 1/4 of it up until now, so it will give me a head start! :)
Thanks for all your advice people - I'll no doubt start asking how to plant stuff from now on!
Dave
Dave
Rotavating is a great way to break up to soil on a neglected plot and it gives you a great boost BUT before you rush to plant and sow in that lovely tilth, take some time to dig over the soil and take out every single bit of root that you can find. The alternative is to find in a few months, that you have cultivated a lush lawn with a good crop of thistles. ::)
Enjoy
Dave
Good advice from smp.you dont want the weed police on your back to ..... :P :P