Southend council have put forward a proposal to disallow all dogs from being exercised off the lead in any public place within the borough. That includes any common ground, any public footpath, limited access to the beach..then only in winter and on the lead, and excluded from all play areas (no problem with that one) and sports grounds. All dogs must wear identity discs at all times, and no more than four dogs at a time are permitted to be exercised by one person (on the lead of course)
Apparently we have from Feb 11 to March 11 to register our views. Of course it has been kept quiet and the dog faeces is now only just hitting the fan with just a week left.
A few of us met at the beach this afternoon and took advantage of the sun shine and the local rag's photographer.
I can only assume that none of the proposers are dog owners.
No-one seems to know the reasons why they are doing it anyway.
Off to do a leaflet drop now, with my trusty collie off the lead. ;D
This is mad. I can understand some locations (e.g. play areas/sports grounds) but public footpaths, etc??? dogs have to be walked off the lead to get rid of their energy... how on earth would dogs like collies get sufficient exercise otherwise?! Seems like this will be cruelty to dogs.. wonder what the RSPCA, etc would think to this ruling?
Good luck
mat
Thanks Mat. If this goes through I forsee many more aggressive dog incidents. Thanks for the RSPCA and other organisations hint, on the case tomorrow. ;)
Hi Emaggie, how ridiculous. Is there anything we can do to help you fight the council?
Scary as once one council does it the others are likely to follow. I couldn't imagine walking a dog all the time on the lead, they really do need freedom to run, as Mat says sounds like cruelty to dogs to me.
Thanks Sinbad.
If you go to www.southend.gov.uk:- and click on Dog Control Orders and scroll down to Feedback Form, this can be printed off. Unfortunately this can't be done on line- it has to be filled in and posted back so I think that may put folk off. They don't make it easy do they?
They sure don't Emaggie. I am going to print it off and send it because as I have said Southend first then what other council's next??
I couldn't see the point in having a dog if you couldn't take it out for a walk and let it off the lead. I love seeing Sam running free and enjoying himself, like I have with all my other dogs. And nothing like seeing them run and play on the beach, out of season of course.
It would be one local byelaw I couldn't abide to.
Thanks again Sinbad. I find the heavy-handedness totally unbelievable. Who do these people think they are to dictate these ridiculous rules. How they think they are going to police us I really don't know. ::)
As a council tax payer I would write to my MP wanting to know why this is happening and I would also be wanting areas in my area where my dog can roam free off the lead when out for a walk.
What about cat owners then?
What about racing pigeons - they still come down on the ground to eat.
What about the dogs used for fox-hunting?
Yup, done that, also asked them what they intend to do about wild animal faeces.
No fox hunting here KT. Now awaiting replies. It will be interesting to see if I get any before the 11th.
..local TV?
Does your area rely on holiday lets (cottages where dogs are allowed) etc...gonna impact there, if so...
All the best,
Lish x
No Lish, no holiday cottages here. Threatened local tv in email to MP. Local radio have done an interview with the chap who organised the spreading of the word. Been to vets this morning to leave flyers, they are only just aware too, and one receptionist had been told it was scaremongering... that's worrying! All happy to spread the word and the flyers though.
I have put a link to this on the Our Dogs forum. They usggested that everyone contact Dog UK and the Kennel Club for help in fighting this.
See http://ourdogs.co.uk/ and click on the Message Board link on the left hand column. Then go to General messages.
Lots of help for and from doggy people there.
Wow, thanks Fenris. Brilliant. Will do that now.
Welcome to the site too. ;D
We have had some of that for ages now. Streets, beaches in summer, childrens play areas. But the main park and sports fields are still lead free. I can go along with all that. I think some jobsworth in your council offices has read the 'crimes against the enviroment' rules wrong. I kid you not, that is what they call walking a dog without a lead nowadays!
I am lucky to be able to ramble public footpaths out in the country, so it would not effect me if they startd off the same scheme with us. But I am d@mned if I would take it sitting down. Keep fighting.
Thanks Ace. After all my emailing yesterday, zilch! I would have thought just one of the councillors would have acknowledged my mail. I expect they wont bother til it's too darn late. ::)
Maggie....backtracking....any idea when this was proposed - and WHY? (Had there been a spate of dogs molesting peeps/anything & someone's jumping on a populist bandwagon, f'rinstance?) And what are their proposed alternatives for free-ranging designated areas for dogs to run and socialise? Have they thought that through and come up with plans?..and if not..WHY not! You say 'the borough'...any idea of the boundaries they're talking about..ie within the Town but not in the country outside it? I'm wondering about the beach...hazily, anything below the high-tide mark (or sommat?) isn't counted as 'owned' property (or whatever) for beachcombing on private property, I'd thought...can, therefore, dogs be allowed to use this area when it's exposed?
(just a few of my free-thinking soddem thoughts..) ::) ;D
No idea when this was proposed Lish, or why. I'm assuming it's because of dog mess which is no more of a problem here than anywhere else, but we don't have many bins and the ones we do have are not emptied regularly. But that's no excuse, I know. Going to have another shot at actually speaking to a real person today, not hopeful as the council 'hadn't responded' to the local rag at time of going to press.
They also want to make it an offence to use a lead more than 6ft. I'm thinking we will all be penalised for wearing the wrong shoes soon. ::)
Good luck today Maggie. As for dog carp....dogs on leads do it, just as much as dogs not on leads....down to responsible behaviour of the owners to clear it.. Don't see that as any sort of valid reason to impose this ban.
Nah, all in all, unless the bods have come up with a good well-thought out plan of alternatives which will be put in place at the same time the by-law/whatever comes into operation, it's a real no-brainer, I reckon >:(
I presented myself at council offices today....and got to speak to a member of the team :o :o He was quite genuinely taken aback when I pointed out how the proposed notice had come across to the public as dictatorial.
It seems that we are not to be banned from all beaches in winter,and dogs can be let off the lead there. Also we don't have to have our dogs on the lead in all publicly accesible places. 4 dogs only on a lead is fact, and the 6ft. lead thing is only if you have been asked to put your dog on a lead to keep it under control.
The 'officers'(who are also responsible for graffiti, street cleansing etc.) will be concentrating their efforts on known problem areas, so it looks like it's not as bad as it seems, thankgoodness.
What a shame the council didn't take time to objectively look at what they had written before they posted these proposals, it would have saved a lot of worry for a lot of people. ::) :)
OK Maggie and well done today 8) Please ask to have ALL bod's words in writing, I'd advise, and throw into him the 'advice' that he/his team publishes same in the local papers to stop any confusion..
Good luck! and might you be seeing the light at the end of a long tunnel here? Hope so, but I'd reeeely want his fingers on paper where his mouth was today :-\
love and luck, Lish XXX
Quote from: Emagggie on March 06, 2009, 13:12:42
It seems that we are not to be banned from all beaches in winter,and dogs can be let off the lead there. Also we don't have to have our dogs on the lead in all publicly accesible places. 4 dogs only on a lead is fact, and the 6ft. lead thing is only if you have been asked to put your dog on a lead to keep it under control.
Bear in mind that these orders once in place are very easy to amend. It will only take a complaint or two. Assume that will happen, if only driven by the anti-pet keeping animal rights people.
Take a trawl through the proposals and see if there is any law or regulation that already exists and which if enforced would cover the suggestions.
QuoteThe 'officers'(who are also responsible for graffiti, street cleansing etc.) will be concentrating their efforts on known problem areas, so it looks like it's not as bad as it seems, thankgoodness.
The problem that will occur here is that if the 'officers' are 'productivity' driven they will concentrate on the easy targets. i.e. the responisble dog owners who will pay their fixed penalties and who have assets to seize. Just like in any other area of law enforcement.
QuoteWhat a shame the council didn't take time to objectively look at what they had written before they posted these proposals, it would have saved a lot of worry for a lot of people. ::) :)
I suspect the council were very well aware of what they had written and simply hoped no-one would notice.
Oh woe is me Fenris, your are the fourth person to point this out to me today :(
I am obviously naive in the ways of the council. :-[
http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/information/factsheets/doglaw/presentlaw/
I thought all dogs had to be on a leads ?
Some owners have great contol over their dog and some have none which is frightening.
and yes I am a dog owner have been for many years.
I wasn't aware, but the chap I spoke to did mention the ruling and dates.
I understand the need for dogs to be on a lead in an area where they could be a problem, but the way the info about 6ft only leads was presented was not clear. :)
there are many law's
http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/information/factsheets/doglaw/presentlaw/
have a read, any dog can turn and bite, it happened to me trying to part my two from fighting, yes I got bit and that night ended up in A&E with the drunks and druggies not nice. Good job my tetunus jab was up to date I was bad for a week or so.
My advice to all dog owners as well as gardeners ( which I am one) is make sure your jab is up to date you never know what is going to happen.
Not been able to use the 'puter for a good few days so missed this thread. I think it's mostly been covered but just to add that I don't think the Guide Dogs for the Blind would look upon a no dogs off lead ruling very kindly. There's been so many dog related incidents lately that all dog owners need to tread very carefully and show the 'responsible' face at all times. I know that if our Terriers were not let off lead to exercise, they'd go stare crazy. I wander if such a ruling would include working dogs such as police dogs?
There are already other councils across the country doing this to a greater or lesser degree, usually it is taken as an opportunity to harmonise various bylaws that are already in existance.
Certain areas of Hertfordshire it is illegal to let dogs off leads with one open space in particular having the rule that dogs can be off the lead when being walked around the edge of the space but they have to be prevented from wandering over the football pitches which take up the other 95% of the area!
I also know in Hichinbrook Park in Huntingdon dogs have to be on the lead at all times and kept to the designated pathways (Hichinbook Park for thse not in the know is a huge park, common and woodland area)
I would suspect that most of the affected aras in Southend already have bylaws stating dogs must be kept on leads, or more commonly kept under control. In theory it will mean all poop will be cleared up as it is often difficult to find it when the dog has been running around all over the place as I know from personal experience! Thankfully now my ex-racer doesn't hare around so much ;D
Quote from: digswell on March 08, 2009, 22:27:54Certain areas of Hertfordshire it is illegal to let dogs off leads with one open space in particular having the rule that dogs can be off the lead when being walked around the edge of the space but they have to be prevented from wandering over the football pitches which take up the other 95% of the area!
I have just sent in my thoughts to the person concerned suggesting this for a proposed banned area.It seems daft that no-one uses the field all week except dog walkers, so I can't see why we can't we use the perimeter.
Only problem is how do you stop a dog running on to football pitches when they are excited at all this open space? Not everyone has well behaved dogs!
Surely the reason for insisting that dogs are on leads in public places etc is that it will be easier to prosecute than for fouling which requires the official person to actually see the offence taking place. In a 30 mins dog walk it would only take a few seconds to do it's business whereas being off the lead could be much longer.
Whilst the majority of dog owners take their responsibilities seriously, there are a minority (as always) who spoil it for everyone else. It is these people that need to be targeted but the problem is catching them. After a particular bad spate of pavement fouling on our road (on which a primary school is located), I telephoned the local dog warden who promised to increase his patrols. I asked him how many people in the borough had been prosecuted for fouling and he said none ! The chances of him catching anyone are very slim unless he 'staked' out a road - and from 6am to 11pm.
Why is we always have to suffer the actions of the minority scum ? And what is wrong with the people who bag up the dog poo and then leave it behind ?
I wonder about that one too, it takes far longer to biodegrade in a plastic bag.
Had a very promt reply this morning,In answer to my suggestion for more bins, apparently they pay per bin to empty them, so don't want to increase that cost by too much. :o Apparently we are all happy to take it home with us. ( I do, but would rather put it in a designated bin.)
We wont be able to use any part of the beach in summer, not even the mud flats at low tide as we would have to cross the beach which is a banned area.
Happy to say that two other points I ( and many others) made about particular dog walking areas here are to be re-defined before it goes before the council, and we have an extra week to put our points forward, so it does feel like we are getting somewhere. I've certainly got a great deal further on my own than if I had waited for our useless parish councillors. ::)
kendy, what right do you have to call people scum just because you don't agree with them? You must be very narrow minded and judgemental, hope loads of people c*** on your street.
in my mind people who allow their dogs to c**** and not pick it up are as bad as you so you make good bed mates
Quote from: Old Ned on March 09, 2009, 19:13:40
kendy, what right do you have to call people scum just because you don't agree with them? You must be very narrow minded and judgemental, hope loads of people c*** on your street.
in my mind people who allow their dogs to c**** and not pick it up are as bad as you so you make good bed mates
Please can we keep this civilised? If you can't post a constuctive reply please don't post at all.
yeah calling people scum aint constructive
Do you own a dog? If so are you one of the people that leaves dog faeces behind? Is this why you are taking the comment so personally?
The word scum is neither here or there.
Old Ned
The rest of you comments directed at another forum member ( Kendy ) that is not acceptable IMHO.
An apology would be in order.
Police dogs and working dogs like sheep dogs are exampt.
If your dogs need more why not join a group which do things like jumping over hurdles in and out of tunnels etc just cannot think what their called.
Sorry ?
I am referring to the people who leave their dog's dirt behind as scum - how can you not agree that this is disgusting behaviour ? Repectable people do not do this !
I'm with you kendy, people who allow their dogs to foul footpaths or who bag up the faces and then hang them from trees ( ??? ??? ???) are scum.
Not sure what you need to aplogise for?!
Thanks for your support.
I was saying 'sorry' as more of an exclamation i.e. "sorry, what are you talking about ".
Kendy,
I am sorry just read my remarks again. :-[
My comments were intended for Old Ned's comments against you. ;)
I dread the dark evenings, I have a large area of garden, mostly grass at the "blind"side of my bungalow. It only has a short post and rope fence. On Sunday I cleared up 5 lots of dog mess which had obviously been deposited after dark. It is not such a problem in the summer months which proves to me these blank blank people are wary of having a fine slapped on them. I caught one man and asked him to clear the mess up, he told me he didn't have a bag so I supplied him with one.
Personally I use biodegradeable nappy sacks to clear up after my hound, that way the bag degrades as well as the do do!
That is a good idea. :)
nappy bags are cheap and handy we use them.
Pity others dont out our frount from the garden our boundary to path is lawn and dog owners let dogs leave presents.
Dont mind picking mine up but when left to pick other dogs mess its a pain I havent caught one yet. >:(