Just been listening to our local radio about Luna planting and a new book that has been release by Michel Gros. He is apparently a french gardener that has been using the biodynamic methods for over 30 years. Anyone who is thinking of trying it out they have given a discount code to get free postage and it is also cheaper than amazon etc.
to order for £6.49 for the book and the calendar go to
www.findhornpress.com (http://www.findhornpress.com) and on the second page of the checkout used the discount coupon code - POTTING
This deducts the postage charge so is a nice little bargain :D We are having a go with raised beds this year for some things so are planning to try out a couple of things using the calendar and some deliberately against the calendar to see if it makes any difference!
I got given a copy recently and found it interesting to read but I won't be trying it out!
Good luck and do post to let us know how you get on.
Don't waste your money.
Interesting topic & doesn't hurt to try.
Won't be paying out though, my diary tells me when it's waxing & waning.
8)
Quote from: Eristic on January 18, 2009, 17:45:32
Don't waste your money.
Can anyone point me towards a double blind test that even hints at it having a positive effect? I've always assumed that what happens is you wait a bit longer to sow stuff, so have a better chance of success due to not rushing in...
Toby Buckland did a trial for the January GW mag that's probably as close as you'll get to a lab trial. He made 2 matching sunny plots and planted one according to the moon book and doing exactly the opposite in the other. I can't copy the whole article here but - he grew 9 different crops and assessed each for germination rate, growing on and yield. Overall peas and parsley did better in the moon bed. The rest there was really no difference. He started out sceptical but concedes there may be a grain of truth in the theory. In favour, he thinks it helps with planning, is worth using for crops that are slow to germinate and is a good guide for improving the success of plants sown out of season. Against, he says you need to be time-rich to do things when the book says so, it's prescriptive and takes away the freedom of gardening, it's complicated with the contrary forces at work.
check out 'a year at kew'
also this
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13516249
Hmmm, sounds a bit flimsy to me... but hey, what do I know!
Quote from: tonybloke on January 18, 2009, 19:32:38
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13516249
From the link above... doesn't "computing yield values as deviations from a moving average rather than as deviations from seasonal trends estimated by quadratic functions." translate as "rigging the data to get the result you want?". Not very objective really, is it?
Pardon ???..............LOL ;D
Quote from: OllieC on January 18, 2009, 21:06:25
Hmmm, sounds a bit flimsy to me... but hey, what do I know!
Quote from: tonybloke on January 18, 2009, 19:32:38
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13516249
From the link above... doesn't "computing yield values as deviations from a moving average rather than as deviations from seasonal trends estimated by quadratic functions." translate as "rigging the data to get the result you want?".
not really!!
I don't bother about this method I just use my diary and a calendar.
But for those of you who are interested I have researched it a bit and put it on my website along with current moon sizes;
http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Moon%20phases/Moon%20phases.htm (http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Moon%20phases/Moon%20phases.htm)
Instinct has always worked for me :) :) :) :) :) :)
Quoteand put it on my website along with current moon sizes;
The size of the moon is constant.
QuoteThe size of the moon is constant.
Sorry E wrong choice of words! I meant the phases!
;D
There is though, a general belief amoung lunar followers that the moon size varies with the lunar cycle giving rise to most of the modern myths that any effect it may have on germinating seeds varies dramatically during the month.
Remember folks. They are after your money.
the moon phase planting sketch goes back to before we had reliable calendars, no clocks , very little writing, etc. a full, or new moon is easy to remember as a planting date.
there is a school of thought about the germination rates of seed as affected by water up-take. water uptake in seeds varies with the lunar cycle (just like the tides) If it happens on a macro scale, it must happen on a micro scale.
there is a load of evidence about this subject, some on the net, but mostly published in journals. ;)
There are lots of success stories of moon planting/gardening. In fact there was a documentary the other night of a farmer who only sowed and harvested this way, he set up his fertilizer spreader (cow manure) and set off after dark as he said it was the right time to do it.
I just wish I had seen the whole programme :(
Quotehe set up his fertilizer spreader (cow manure) and set off after dark as he said it was the right time to do it.
Arre Boy. Muckspreddin in dark so no un sees e do it.
Some people will do anything to get on the telly.
What I want to know is,these folk who follow this Lunar Planting stuff to the letter,what happens If on the perfect time and date (according to your charts) you get to your plot and it's either flooded after 2 inches of rain or frozen solid after a really hard frost?
Do you still sow/plant regardless even if the ground is in no fit state? :'(
Or do you have to wait another 28 days? ???
Dan, if you really want to know, buy or borrow the book! ;) ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: tonybloke on January 19, 2009, 21:39:27
Dan, if you really want to know, buy or borrow the book! ;) ;D ;D ;D
Don't really want to waste my money. ;)
Thought you might be able to give me a quick answer. ;D
try this link for some evidence
http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/abstract/145/2/265
;)
Watch out VegManDan, it sounds like you're being fed a lot of Bio Bull!!!! ;) ;)
But in otherwords you can only allow for +/- 5 days, so tuff luck if your plot is under a foot of water, frozen solid, bombed by foriegn invaders, under alien attack, infested with any one of the following: bugs, slugs, mugs...wait a second...no I think slugs should be alright...cats, dogs, caogs, or doats!!
So good luck with it all.
;D
Wow I thought this Lunar Planting stuff was all about getting back to nature and simplicity ?? ???
You need a degree in Waffle to understand it.
If you don't believe me here's a quote from the link. ;D
====================================================
LUNAR-CORRELATED VARIATIONS IN WATER UPTAKE BY BEAN SEEDS
FRANK A. BROWN JR. 1 and CAROL S. CHOW 2
1 Department of Biological Sciences, Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois 60201
2 The Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, Massachusetts 02543
1. Rate of water uptake by bean seeds during the initial four hours displays a significant quarterly lunar variation.
2. Under what appear to be minimally distrubed environmental conditions relative to environmental electromagnetic fields, maximum rates tend to occur close to new and full moon and the moon's quarters.
3. One or more of the quarterly cycles may undergo periods of inversion either apparently "spontaneously" or in response to such experimentally altered environmental conditions as those found within a walk-in constant-temperature chamber, or effected by very slow uniform rotation.
4. The character of an interaction between vessels of beans located close to one another displays a synodic monthly variation. A maximum in interaction-induced negative correlation between two samples occurs 4 to 5 days after full moon, and in positive, 4 to 5 days after new moon.
5. These results give further support for the hypothesis that living systems can exist in either of two states, + and - with respect to their correlation with fluctuating biologically effective and normally uncontrolled, pervasive geophysical parameters, and that this sign is experimentally alterable.
=============================================================================
So what I have learned from this is that beans take more water on a new moon in the first 4 hours.
Well then why not just soak them overnight.?
But what if your soil is already saturated for a fortnight ? That's just going to guarantee that they'll just rot before germinating...surely. ???
I wonder if our neolithic ancestors were concerned about their "synodic monthly variation" or an "interaction-induced negative correlation"
Stick some big words in and folk won't understand it but they'll believe it because some American University student did a study.
I tend to use this guide.
Wait until the soil warms up,there isn't a prolonged frost forecast and the day you plant contains the letter "Y".
You never know ,it may catch on. ;) ;)
===============================
I'm only having a laugh. ;D
Everyone to their own. :)
You're having a laugh but they got paid to write that nonsense.
I refer you one and all to no. 3.
Quoteor in response to such experimentally altered environmental conditions as those found within a walk-in constant-temperature chamber, or effected by very slow uniform rotation.
Translated into English means their findings were the same as those conditions provided by a gardener regardless of the moon phase.
Tidal cycles and womens' menstrual cycles go with the moon, so it's obvious that it's affecting all sorts of things, and fertility of the land goes with other sorts of fertility, doesn't it? It's obvious that the moon will affect plants.
It's just like the idea that there's a solid sky with sluicegates in it, with loads of water piled on top and a god letting through when he chooses. We all know water falls from the sky, after all, so there has to be loads of it up there, and some sort of mechanism for letting it out in controlled quantities. It's in the Bible, too, but don't tell the fundamentalists!
Quote from: vegmandan on January 19, 2009, 20:44:58
What I want to know is,these folk who follow this Lunar Planting stuff to the letter,what happens If on the perfect time and date (according to your charts) you get to your plot and it's either flooded after 2 inches of rain or frozen solid after a really hard frost?
Do you still sow/plant regardless even if the ground is in no fit state? :'(
Or do you have to wait another 28 days? ???
This is when these kinds of 'systems' fall down. Also, there are big local differences to take into account: latitude, altitude, soil type, south-facing, coastal, prevailing wind, shade, etc.
I would bet a fair amount of money that a rigorous scientific test would show it is basically ineffective. Don't part with your hard-earned money!
However, the followers of such methods often devote a lot of TLC to their crops - it is this that undoubtedly helps the most!
Quote from: GodfreyRob on January 22, 2009, 16:44:42
I would bet a fair amount of money that a rigorous scientific test would show it is basically ineffective. Don't part with your hard-earned money!
How much do you call a fair amount??
and what do you call a rigorous scientific test? ( only asking 'cos we have one of the foremost plant research establishments here in norfolk http://www.jic.ac.uk/corporate/index.htm)
;)
Quotewhat do you call a rigorous scientific test?
I would have thought that for a proper test any fully computer-controlled climate environment should suffice with a batch of seeds sown every day for a 3 month period. Repeated for the different types of veg.
If the resulting plants are then lined up it should be obvious where the moon has had an effect as this would be the only variable. I'll believe it when I see it.
On a separate note or two, a ladies period is not the same as the lunar period and if all the women in the country had their period the same week I am sure I would know about it. So much so that I believe there would be a special week set aside on the calendar for it so us lower mortals could keep out of sight.
I wanted to know what 'a fair amount' was?
(my degree course costs 'a fair amount'!! if I could get that amount to do the research for a couiple of yerars at uni, I'd give it a 'proper test') ;)
Yes well to be fair all other growing variables have to be eliminated before any meaningful conclusions can be made.
At a lesser level, a few seeds could be sown on a daily basis along a line but external forces such as weather then play a significant part in the growth. If the drills were cloched and the daily min max temps also recorded some conclusions could be reached but would only be an indicator.
Hi All
I've started a blog on growing by the moon http://intunewithmoon.findhornpress.com/ We've always grown organically and as I'm part of the company that is publishing Michel Gros' book thought I'd better practice what I was preaching :)
Get in touch with me if you have any questions
I have a question... several in fact, since I have a natural suspicion towards anything that uses bad science to explain itself. I don't see how this works but... each to their own I suppose and if this does no harm then who am I to moan?!?!
I grew up near your place, in Tain. Hope the weather's better now.
Welcome to the site, and may all your crops grow triumphantly!
Hi Ollie
Go ahead and ask your questions... I'll do my best to answer. Where do you live now?
Hiya...
Okay, first up...
-Are you absolutely, real really, 100% certain that it works? Really?
I live in Guildford now. Would love to be back up there if only for the views. Mother's still in Tain.
No I'm not... that is why we are running this trial with a moon bed and a control bed. We will use organic principles with both beds... so if there is a difference we can accept it is the lunar influence. But, this is going to take until the end of the year to have any sort of real answer. Yes other folk have tried and tested... I need to be sure for me :)
Hi, Moon Grower, I'll be interested to follow your trial. I have often had intentions to try lunar planting,but it's usually a case of doing what I can when I have time so it doesn't happen. Lucky you, living up there. We used tovisit friends in Kinloss and often went to Findhorn.
Best way to follow what we are up to will be to check in on the blog http://intunewithmoon.findhornpress.com/ as I will be posting there regularly and there are also lots of tips from the book you can use even if you aren't growing using biodynamic principles ;)
Surely with biodynamics you are not supposed to pick & choose the bits you use you are supposed to buy into all the anthroposophical ideas that go with it or it won't work.
You are also supposed to use all the preparations they reccommend such as preparation 500 which is made by packing a dead cow's horn with it's own fresh manure (or perhaps bull s**t would also suffice), and then burying it over the winter. As the whole process is a type of astrological alchemy, it's essential that the burial occurs precisely at the autumnal equinox. A day earlier or later would be disastrous.
While the horn remains buried, the forces of the Winter Sun become concentrated by the inner planets, imbuing the cow manure with immense life-giving energy. When you dig the horn up in the spring, it's important to check the consistency of the manure contained within. You can either use Gas Chromatography (see, it really is scientific) or you can just stick your finger in it. If it doesn't have the sweet smell of a summer meadow something has gone terribly wrong. If all is well however, a small speck of the manure should be stirred into a barrel of fresh water before applying it to your crops.
Of course you should be careful with preparation 500 as it can have some very worrying side effects. User's have reported seeing "a web of formative force formations weaving themselves in the air" above the treated soil. These esoteric structures are apparently held in place by the power of thought. Oh, and by Gnomes. Not the little chubby fellows that we're all familiar with but headless, sexless Gnomes wearing suits of shining armour. Don't just take my word for it, it's all here:
http://www.aracaria.com.au/preparations/about_biodynamic_article.htm
Because these Gnomes are almost ten feet tall, they have an excessive power and influence over your hanging baskets. It's very important to balance this by spraying liberally with another Biodynamic concoction called Preparation 501.
Baccy Man
We fully intend to follow all the instructions in the book - which do not include using Horn Manure or Horn Silica - and grow the veggies in the one bed using biodynamic principles BUT even someone who doesn't want to grown in this way will find useful info on when to for example prune, make compost etc. One of the reasons we were not really able to hold a proper trial last year was that we were both working full time, now with David retired we can actually do things on a specific day.
Did anyone watch Chateau Monty, the TV programme about the vine grower who used Biodynamics in making his wine?
I was pretty convinced that it was a combination of tlc and attention to timing that made the difference. Here's an interesting story:
http://www.wineanorak.com/biodynamic1.htm (http://www.wineanorak.com/biodynamic1.htm)
Leflaive make very serious Burgundies - prices start at around £30 a bottle, for the bottom end of their range, and go up to £300 even for recent vintages (needless to say I've never drunk any, just read about it). If they're convinced perhaps we should investigate further.
PS 'anthroposophical' - a new word to me, have looked it up and can't wait to use it :)
Quote from: Moon Grower on February 20, 2009, 09:00:50
Baccy Man
We fully intend to follow all the instructions in the book - which do not include using Horn Manure or Horn Silica - and grow the veggies in the one bed using biodynamic principles
Surely thats like saying you're vegetarian but you eat chicken. If you don't use the biodynamic preparations it doesn't qualify as biodynamic gardening.
The book I am following tells you to use nettles and comfrey to make plant decoctions, we will certainly do that. When Toby ran his trial he didn't use the preparations either. I know how they work as our local CSA uses them but on the scale we are working at it would be impossible.
I think your comparison between folk who claim to be vegetarian and eat chicken and what we are doing is not valid and you are entitled to your opinion.
Isn't that the difference between lunar and biodynamic? Lunar is simply based on the phases of the moon,biodynamic brings in lots ofother things. ???
Is the timing under Biodynamics purely lunar? Surely solstices and equinoxes get a
look in?
I am a Qualified (B-Tech Nat Diploma in Organic Hortic + Food production) Organic grower. Also have several friends who are Biodynamic growers and do adhere to anthroposophical principles.
here's one of 'em!
http://www.biodynamic.org.uk/demeter/where-to-buy/norfolk.html
Another friend has a couple of allotments run on BDAA guide lines. I Know it seems like a load of bull - sh*t, what with special preps at special times, and special additives to compost heaps, etc, BUT, before you knock it, go and have a look for yourself?
Moon Grower, you can't pick and choose which bits of biodynamics you use, it would be like claiming to be organic and still using 'a little bit' of Artificial fertiliser 'occasionally'
you are either in or out, not on the fence!!
Day 51 of the 'giving up ciggies sketch' can you tell? ;)
tonybloke
I have checked with the author of In Tune with the Moon he does not use the two preparations himself simply the plant decoctions... as I am trying to follow the instructions as per his book I am going to give the Horn Manure and Horn Silica a miss this year. I do agree though that most biodynamic growers use them. Reality is we would have needed to plant the cow horn full of muck last autumn time on an appropriate day!
moon phase growing ain't biodynamic growing! You can purchase the relevant preps from the BDAA, you don't have to slaughter your own cattle to get the horns, either!!
As I said earlier, either you stick to all the principles, or not,it's up yo you! ;)
P,S., I use Nick Kollerstrom's book, have you checked that out? he is the BBC's moon phase chap
OK I am an old fogey when it comes to all these theories, having said that I wouldn't dispute them, particularly the 'lunar' sowings.
I see them as pre cursors of when people were unable to read and write, having calendars and diaries and things, so the sun,moon & stars I am sure played their part.
I look at it in this simplistic way;
The plants don't know if the grower is using lunar phases biodynamics or their diary, they will just do their own thing choose what system you use!
Obviously because we all have a reasonable amount of success, I would say use the system that suits you best and don't knock the others!
Personally I use a diary which OK initially; is not very accurate due to seasonal differences, but after you have kept a diary for nearly 25 years as I have done you will find it becomes quite accurate.
I know nothing about dynamics so I guess I will never contemplate using this method, lunar phases are a bit complicated ( at least to me) but at the end of it all I am quite happy with the results I get using a diary.
Then look at it another way; Each year we have a growing season, seeds to sow, plants to plant etc so choose which system we adopt, plants will do what they want to do choose what method we use.
So I won't knock any of the systems/method discussed here! My philosophy is; if they work .....fine!!
I was taught away back in the year dot; if you find a way that works for you, don't change it until you find a better method.
So I am sticking with my diary 8)
your posting was spot on, well said Tee Gee
Quote from: Tee Gee on February 20, 2009, 16:17:30
I was taught away back in the year dot; if you find a way that works for you, don't change it until you find a better method.
this is exactly how i try to live my life, i learned this lesson after having my first kid :-\ :)
I find my allotment diary very useful.
I have looked into this Luna planting in the past and all I can conclude is you need endless time to devote to it and no one has yet showed me any proof that Luna planting is any better.
I agree with TEE GEE. :)
Quote from: Tee Gee on February 20, 2009, 16:17:30
if you find a way that works for you, don't change it until you find a better method.
So how do you find a better method if you never change it? :D
QuoteSo how do you find a better method if you never change it?
I thought I might get asked that one ::)
There are many ways e.g.
I listen to others or read the posts on A4A for example, and if their is something there that I would like to try, I do, then I compare!
If it is better I change, if its not, I don't.
Same with new varieties of seed, first year I will probably grow about 20-25% of the new variety along with 75-80% 0f a tried and tested variety, then again I compare and again.......If it is better I change if its not I don't.
Simple as that!!
Quote from: betula on February 20, 2009, 16:36:11I have looked into this Luna planting in the past and all I can conclude is you need endless time to devote to it and no one has yet showed me any proof that Luna planting is any better.
I agree with TEE GEE. :)
Have you investigated the t.v. series, (and dvd) 'a year @ Kew? A student there did a trail on a variety of veg and flowers.
Check it out before condemming this, please.
Also most of the Biodynamic growers are doing it commercialy, and therefore do have all day to do it, they ain't weekend gardeners! ;)
Quote from: Moon Grower on February 20, 2009, 14:12:26
I do agree though that most biodynamic growers use them.
If you are Biodynamic you use them, if you don't use them, you ain't! it's as easy as that!
there are no grey areas, as far as I can see.
(I have been known to write to pedants corner in the 'Eye')
It would like claiming to be a vegetarian, but having the occassional Big Mac (other burger brands are available.! I ain't advertising anything!! ;)
Quote from: tonybloke on February 20, 2009, 14:05:09
Another friend has a couple of allotments run on BDAA guide lines. I Know it seems like a load of bull - sh*t, what with special preps at special times, and special additives to compost heaps, etc, BUT, before you knock it, go and have a look for yourself?
There used to be a Steiner school round here a lot of the people who attended it were brainwashed into following Rudolph Steiners other beliefs including biodynamic agriculture. I have tried it following strict guidelines provided by one of these people who is seriously obsessed with biodynamic agriculture so they should know what they were talking about. 50% of the crops were grown biodynamically 50% using my normal methods. All seed used was ovrtpriced biodynamic (demeter certified) to rule out possible differences between seed sources/quality.
Virtually all the biodynamicly grown crops produced lower yields. some failed to fruit at all, they had more disease problems & were generally of lower quality than the control crops despite the use of all the BD preparations & getting far more attention than the control crop. A small percentage was comparable to the control crop (primarily onions & garlic which need very little attention anyway), none was any better.
I realise I come across as being very dismissive of Biodynamics. A great many people believe in it; and practitioners take it all very seriously of course. They are adamant that the spiritual subtleties of Biodynamics are beyond my comprehension. I don't have any scientific evidence to prove that they're wrong. Nobody can actually disprove the existence of the Soniferous Ether or Nature Spirits. So how can I, as a rational individual, discount the possibility of the existence of ten-foot tall, headless, genital-less gnomes in suits of shining armour which help to hold etheric structures in place over your veg? As a point of logic, I have to accept the possibility at least. Of course, intuition tells me it's implausible: how would the gnome keep his helmet on? What stops his codpiece dropping off and breaking his toes?. But are these incongruities a good enough reason to doubt the whole of Biodynamics? Between questions like this & my own experience of biodynamic gardening I would say that in my opinion biodynamic agriculture is indeed the load of bull sh*t it appears to be.
Baccy Man. I shall not belittle the results some gardeners have achieved, not least because I am myself a horticultural novice. However, I am not thick, and I can see that since earliest recorded history, Homo sapiens has held the most incredible beliefs, and divination springs immediately to mind. How about astrology; forecasting the future by watching birds’ behaviour, chance book openings, cards, palm reading, Friday 13th, crystal balls, marks on the ground, observing water courses, inspecting animals’ entrails, Feng Shui, dream interpretation, Ouija boards, dowsing, runes, tarot cards and spiritualism?
No, what I (as a specimen of Homo sapiens) would like presented, is a rational explanation, of the claimed phenomena (don’t give me fairies and goblins), and failing that, undisputable evidence that these ideas are worthy of consideration……… I’d like my veggie beds to prosper too, and I shall not dismiss any idea provided it is convincing.
Quote from: tonybloke on February 20, 2009, 14:20:09
moon phase growing ain't biodynamic growing! You can purchase the relevant preps from the BDAA, you don't have to slaughter your own cattle to get the horns, either!!
As I said earlier, either you stick to all the principles, or not,it's up yo you! ;)
Your right it isn't... the author describes his method of growing as 'biodynamic' but it a'int
Biodynamic growing does interest me but for this year we will have our moon bed and our organic control bed...
Quote from: tonybloke on February 20, 2009, 18:05:43
Quote from: betula on February 20, 2009, 16:36:11I have looked into this Luna planting in the past and all I can conclude is you need endless time to devote to it and no one has yet showed me any proof that Luna planting is any better.
I agree with TEE GEE. :)
Have you investigated the t.v. series, (and dvd) 'a year @ Kew? A student there did a trail on a variety of veg and flowers.
Check it out before condemming this, please.
Also most of the Biodynamic growers are doing it commercialy, and therefore do have all day to do it, they ain't weekend gardeners! ;)
Never trust a student :P
Quote from: Moon Grower on February 20, 2009, 20:48:57
Your right it isn't... the author describes his method of growing as 'biodynamic' but it a'int
Biodynamic growing does interest me but for this year we will have our moon bed and our organic control bed...
I'll watch with interest!! ;)
Will keep you posted Tony Bloke...
I'm trying a new approach this year.
I've got a bed planned, which will be only planted on the 3rd full moon of Krypton by socially disadvantaged minorities, and only using 100% recycled organic eco friendly waste,bagged up by a Peruvian who is on the Fair Trade scheme.
Don't know how I'll do but I'll have a warm glow of satisfaction when eating my one carrot from the entire bed knowing that I've done my bit in saving mother earth.
OK,Ya ! ;D
The biodynamic approach to treating slugs is just briliant.
You have to collect 50 slugs from your plot and cremate them, you then dilute a minute quantity of the ash ina barrel of water, which you have to stir in a particular pattern for an enormous amount of time, eventually the water will become energised and its physical state will change, you will know this has happened because the water will thicken making it harder to stir. You then water this preparation on to the affected area. If teh slugs do not go away you repeat until they do.
Now three major issues here:-
Firstly the treatment is effectively homoeopathy for the garden.
Secondly the water changes state... hmm and you know this because it's harder to stir, so basically it's because your arm gets tired.
Thirdly, you repeat until it works. Now If I collect 50 slugs and destroy them and I keep repeating this, of course it will have an affect, I can do this without the hocus pocus.
I'm sceptical, despite being a bona fide, yoghurt weaving hippy born and raised in a hippy commune.
Quote from: vegmandan on February 21, 2009, 00:23:13
I'm trying a new approach this year.I've got a bed planned, which will be only planted on the 3rd full moon of Krypton by socially disadvantaged minorities, and only using 100% recycled organic eco friendly waste,bagged up by a Peruvian who is on the Fair Trade scheme.
where are you getting this fair trade peruvian stuff from? can I have the address/ I want some!!
Please take photo's, and take regular readings of soil temp, humidity, moon phase, astrological movements / influences etc. It will be interesting to see how you get on!
or where you takin the p*ss?
P.s. you still ain't sent your address for the moon phase book I offered!
Are you scared of giving it a serious go?
Controversial isnt it but I am enjoying the opinons (and I guess opinions is what they are)
This bit; Never trust a student reminded of a thought I often get;
As a lover of 'University Challenge' on TV I often think when the students are introducing themselves and they say ; I'm reading this and I'm reading that.
..................what if the subject has never been written about ??? ::) Or could it be that todays education is just 'plagiarism' ??? ::) and does no one think for themselves?
Food for thought isn't it ::)
Carry on with your opinions folks I for one am enjoying it, but I still don't think I will change my habits of a life time!
Quote from: vegmandan on January 19, 2009, 20:44:58
What I want to know is,these folk who follow this Lunar Planting stuff to the letter,what happens If on the perfect time and date (according to your charts) you get to your plot and it's either flooded after 2 inches of rain or frozen solid after a really hard frost?
Do you still sow/plant regardless even if the ground is in no fit state? :'(
Or do you have to wait another 28 days? ???
No of course you don't go ahead and work on the land if the ground is waterlogged or frozen solid - that would just be plain daft! But that does not mean you have to wait 28 days to [for example] work with flower plants... today and tomorrow are good days for doing this but if it is tipping it down with rain or the ground is frozen the next time you can work with flower plants is 5 - 6 March, miss that slot and it is 15 - 16 March... so there is no panic if you can't do something for a week or so.
We were away to the south of Scotland from Friday to yesterday, when we came back the ground was sodden - had rained just about all the time fortunately we are only sowing under protection right now.
Might add that since the snow has gone the garden is a mass of colour with bulbs popping u palomst overnight :)
Results of a trial did prove that waxing and waning of the moon did actually work
One is for top veg like cabbage
T'other is for roots like carrots.
Sadly I can not remember which way round but do remember it happening.
So you could test it for yourself.
By the way you can still get that discount on the book if you want to buy it!
Quote from: ceres on January 18, 2009, 19:18:16
Toby Buckland did a trial for the January GW mag that's probably as close as you'll get to a lab trial. He made 2 matching sunny plots and planted one according to the moon book and doing exactly the opposite in the other. I can't copy the whole article here but - he grew 9 different crops and assessed each for germination rate, growing on and yield. Overall peas and parsley did better in the moon bed. The rest there was really no difference. He started out sceptical but concedes there may be a grain of truth in the theory. In favour, he thinks it helps with planning, is worth using for crops that are slow to germinate and is a good guide for improving the success of plants sown out of season. Against, he says you need to be time-rich to do things when the book says so, it's prescriptive and takes away the freedom of gardening, it's complicated with the contrary forces at work.
mmm... wasn't quite my reading of what he meant. Many of the gardening mags mention it from time to time. The usual result is that it doesn't make any difference, but "who knows, give it a go". The books on it i have read have a lot on nourishing the soil and other gardening good practice lumped in with it. I would guess that if you feed your plants they would grow well - regardless of the moon. The effect of the moon on the liquids in human beings is so small as to be virtually unmeasurable. Plants are even smaller....
Quote from: Moon Grower on February 19, 2009, 22:10:59
No I'm not... that is why we are running this trial with a moon bed and a control bed. We will use organic principles with both beds... so if there is a difference we can accept it is the lunar influence. But, this is going to take until the end of the year to have any sort of real answer. Yes other folk have tried and tested... I need to be sure for me :)
I would guess that for a good trial you would need to run the experiment for many, many years to rule out random fluctuations. One bed could turn out better than the other in a given year because the weather etc just happens to be better at sowing time etc.. Statistically you normally need quite a big sample to get any meaningful results...
Quote from: Tyke on February 24, 2009, 20:59:12
Quote from: ceres on January 18, 2009, 19:18:16
mmm... wasn't quite my reading of what he meant. Many of the gardening mags mention it from time to time. The usual result is that it doesn't make any difference, but "who knows, give it a go". The books on it i have read have a lot on nourishing the soil and other gardening good practice lumped in with it. I would guess that if you feed your plants they would grow well - regardless of the moon. The effect of the moon on the liquids in human beings is so small as to be virtually unmeasurable. Plants are even smaller....
Hi Tyke I agree - unless you do exactly the same manuring etc of both moon and control beds then it isn't a fair trial. David has manured both beds. The moon bed got manured at 3 different times [depending on crop to be grown] the control bed was manured in a oner
Okay I am offering one happy Allotments 4 All forumist a copy of In Tune with the Moon for free... let me know if you are interested
Quote from: Moon Grower on February 25, 2009, 11:54:00
Okay I am offering one happy Allotments 4 All forumist a copy of In Tune with the Moon for free... let me know if you are interested
Which has now gone to LBB