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General => The Shed => Topic started by: kenkew on October 28, 2008, 21:21:40

Title: Yester-year
Post by: kenkew on October 28, 2008, 21:21:40
Memories are made of this.
A good olde song, but one with a lot of meaning. Old songs bring back old memories, as do smells, places and faces.
Quite recently I got a whiff of coke smoke. That certainly hit me with a memory of taking a 3 wheeled old pram down to the gas works to nick handfulls of coke from the side of the boiler house to take home. By heck, coke burns hot for ages. Well worth the odd clip round the ear'ole when we got caught pinching it!.... :D
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on October 28, 2008, 21:34:52


   Wow Kenkew, have just posted about coke - is it coal with the gas taken out ?

   When the coal cart came, horse drawn I add - my brother and I had to count the bags that
   he poured down the shoot, you know the coal hole in the front step !!

   It's funny about smells, think they evoke memories more than most things, except music of
   course. 

   I came a cropper on a set of pram wheels once,  still got the scar on my knee where my mum had
to remove some '  road '   --  didn't we take some chances !!

   floss x

   
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: kenkew on October 28, 2008, 21:47:23
Loved the smell of the Tar Wagon as it trundled up the cobbles. Men pouring tar in-between the sets from gallon jugs. We used to wait 'till it rounded the corner and go round picking it out to make blackies (marbles) out of. It made a good chewing-gum too!
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: Emagggie on October 28, 2008, 22:08:56
Every year it's the same, the first blackberry eaten from the hedgerow and I'm transported back a hundred years (!) to walking the 3 miles home from school eating as many as I could.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: ninnyscrops on October 28, 2008, 22:11:43
The coal lorry always reminded be of cooked bacon, and they were in trouble if they spilled any on the newly Cardinal Redded front porch!
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: GrannieAnnie on October 29, 2008, 01:29:55
A whiff of seckel pears = my grandmother's root cellar where she kept pears and potatoes. When you climbed down the stairs you'd be hit by the smells of fruit and damp earth.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: hopalong on October 29, 2008, 18:08:44
Quote from: FLOSSY on October 28, 2008, 21:34:52


   Wow Kenkew, have just posted about coke - is it coal with the gas taken out ?

   When the coal cart came, horse drawn I add - my brother and I had to count the bags that
   he poured down the shoot, you know the coal hole in the front step !!

   It's funny about smells, think they evoke memories more than most things, except music of
   course. 


   floss x

   
The smell of rotten eggs reminds me of the coke works near our house in Norwich in the 1950s. The smell was worse than that if anything when they siphoned off the gas, but the multi-coloured flames from a chimney on the coke works lit up the night sky beautifully - blue and green as well as red and yellow, and colours in between. Not quite the aurora borealis, but impressive.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: kenkew on October 29, 2008, 18:45:39
Sometime around 1948 I used to spend time on my dad's allotment. It backed onto the railway lines at a place the goods trains had to stop to wait their turn into the marshalling yard.
Me and my 2 brothers would climb onto the shed roof and chuck stones and with pea-shooters would blast the driver and fireman with eldeberrys. To get their own back they would hurl lumps of coal at us from the tender.
We had girt lumps of coal and free heat at home for nowt!
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on October 29, 2008, 18:49:33
  

  Wish I'd seen that hopalong,  must have  have been awesome !

  Begining to see the process then, on how they made coke......,   so, they burnt
  the coal to release the gasses to provide the fuel called coke.

  Was this in response to the need for smokeless fuels ?   Coke did burn longer and gave a good
  heat ,  but --  couldn't the gasses given off been ' captured ' and used for something else !

  I suppose that being in the age of recycling - and thank goodness we're getting there, you question
  any wasteful activities.

  Found a piece of coal on a Devon beach , that had had a coal works nearby  --   I saved it for my
  grandchildren as I reckond the only time they would see a piece of coal would be in a museum.
   Thats OK , time goes by and we all become fascinated by the past and it's history --  we have a duty
   and the pleasure of passing it on.     So be it.

    Any one feel a book comeing on ?  where would you start ?

    floss x

   
 
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on October 29, 2008, 19:08:37


   kenkew, cant get to grips with you chewing tar rolled blackies !!   :o

   What did it taste like ?   Loved  the smell of tar,  but never felt the need to
   get down and lick the road !!  bless   :P

   You are so ... what !!!   Wished I knew you when my bruv and I were let loose all summer
    with the door key round our neck, we could have met up and at the The Tunnels near
    Bounds Green [ N 22 ]  , sat on the tunnel wall and waited to be suffacated by steam
    and fumes   ---   just for the fun of it,  wonder how I survived !!!

     Didnt the eldyberrys get squished ? on impact I suppose !  brilliant    ;D

     floss x


     
   
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: kenkew on October 29, 2008, 19:16:50
Also used to put 6" nails on the rail tracks. Trains make great arrow heads out of nails!
(Still got all my fingers....just!)
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: hopalong on October 29, 2008, 19:20:15
Quote from: FLOSSY on October 29, 2008, 18:49:33
 

  Wish I'd seen that hopalong,  must have  have been awesome !

  Begining to see the process then, on how they made coke......,   so, they burnt
  the coal to release the gasses to provide the fuel called coke.

  Was this in response to the need for smokeless fuels ?   Coke did burn longer and gave a good
  heat ,  but --  couldn't the gasses given off been ' captured ' and used for something else !

  I suppose that being in the age of recycling - and thank goodness we're getting there, you question
  any wasteful activities.

  Found a piece of coal on a Devon beach , that had had a coal works nearby  --   I saved it for my
  grandchildren as I reckond the only time they would see a piece of coal would be in a museum.
   Thats OK , time goes by and we all become fascinated by the past and it's history --  we have a duty
   and the pleasure of passing it on.     So be it.

    Any one feel a book comeing on ?  where would you start ?

    floss x

   
 

A lot of coal is washed up on the beaches in Northumberland too, floss. People still collect it for their fires.  The franciscan friars at Alnmouth Friary use a lot of it.

Coke is produced by burning bituminous coal (coking coal) at very high temperatures. Coal-gas, tar and water are extracted in the process. Coke is light and smokeless. It produces a high heat and burns for a long time, which is why it is or was used to fire furnaces - including blast furnaces and steam engines - and kitchen stoves. We used it in our Aga cooker. More recently NASA have used it as an ingredient to shield space ships because it has such powerful heat shielding properties.  Here endeth the lesson.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: GrannieAnnie on October 29, 2008, 20:47:03
Quote from: kenkew on October 29, 2008, 18:45:39
Sometime around 1948 I used to spend time on my dad's allotment. It backed onto the railway lines at a place the goods trains had to stop to wait their turn into the marshalling yard.
Me and my 2 brothers would climb onto the shed roof and chuck stones and with pea-shooters would blast the driver and fireman with eldeberrys. To get their own back they would hurl lumps of coal at us from the tender.
We had girt lumps of coal and free heat at home for nowt!
do you think the driver and fireman knew why you were pelting them?
That's a great story.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: ACE on October 29, 2008, 21:55:34
Quote from: FLOSSY on October 29, 2008, 18:49:33
 

   --  couldn't the gasses given off been ' captured ' and used for something else !

 

   
 

Before north sea gas, those big green gasometers  held the gas that was produced by heating coal, coke was the by-product.

Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: ninnyscrops on October 29, 2008, 22:28:32
Is that why the one down at The Oval cricket ground always looks nearly empty now?
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: hopalong on October 30, 2008, 10:33:50
Quote from: ACE on October 29, 2008, 21:55:34
Quote from: FLOSSY on October 29, 2008, 18:49:33
 

   --  couldn't the gasses given off been ' captured ' and used for something else !
     
 

Before north sea gas, those big green gasometers  held the gas that was produced by heating coal, coke was the by-product.


There are several by-products from coke, apart from gas - e.g. ammonium sulphate used in fertilisers, light oil (benzene) used as an additive to petrol, coal tar used in pitch and creosote and coke breeze used in steel production. Trouble is, there's a lot of hazardous waste and carbon emissions too.
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: pippy on October 30, 2008, 13:29:51
Coke smoke and coal dust always remind me of time with a previous partner who ran a replica steam launch.  I specially remember taking it to Holland and running out of coal in Amsterdam!!

We eventually got hold of some raw sulphurous coal off a tug boat at the ship museum.  It was awful!  You opened up the firebox, chucked it on and banged the lid shut as it burst into flames.  Two seconds later yellow smoke poured out of the chimney!!  It's one way to get noticed on the canals :D

I looked a bit like something out of the black and White minstrel show that day ! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on November 01, 2008, 10:08:00
 
  Sorry, have been AWOL,

  Has been fantastic reading all your posts, thank you,   :-*

  pippy, you sure lived dangerously !   :o   Have you got any pics of the launch and your trip ?
  That must have been some crossing !

   Should have known about Gasometers doh !  So are none of them used at all now  Ace ?

   kenkew you is frightening !  what did you do with your 6" arrows dare I ask    ::)

   Grannie Anne, have meant to ask you what ' seckel pears ' are ?

   floss x

 
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: GrannieAnnie on November 01, 2008, 11:21:15
Quote from: FLOSSY on November 01, 2008, 10:08:00
 
  Sorry, have been AWOL,

  Has been fantastic reading all your posts, thank you,   :-*

  pippy, you sure lived dangerously !   :o   Have you got any pics of the launch and your trip ?
  That must have been some crossing !

   Should have known about Gasometers doh !  So are none of them used at all now  Ace ?

   kenkew you is frightening !  what did you do with your 6" arrows dare I ask    ::)

   Grannie Anne, have meant to ask you what ' seckel pears ' are ?

   floss x
Flossy, Seckel pears are tiny, perhaps 3 inches or less long, brown when ripe and very sweet but not super juicy like Bartlett pears.
 
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on November 01, 2008, 15:02:24


  Hi GrannieAnnie,

  They sound great, bet you get  loads to a kilo.  Will say that I have not heard of them before,
  so wondering if they are an English pear ?
  Maybe good for jam too ?

  floss x
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: pippy on November 01, 2008, 15:55:15
Wish I could post piccies - it was years ago when digital cameras weren't invented.  Steam launches are quite pretty though!  I remember being moored at the ship museum and several people thought we were an exhibit!  ;D ;D

The raw coal destroyed most of the liner to the firebox at the time and we had to have it repaired when we got home.  There were lots of dangerous moments in the trip when we were running out of steam, with enormous freight tugs ploughing across us on the rhinestat kanal, which we had to cross.  We got rocked about by them, and by waves on the open Zeider Zee (a big inland waterway) and had we capsized the crafy would have basically sank, if not exploded with the steam plant!

These days health and safety would probably ban such things!  Hence why kids today have no idea of the natural properties of different sorts of coal, using steam as you generate it, or superheat and how to stop it!!


Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: valmarg on November 01, 2008, 18:04:56
You're taking me back probably a bit further than my memory of science classes, but here goes.

Before North Sea gas, coal was burned anaerobically (ie in the absence if air) to produce 'town gas'.  This was the gas that was used until North Sea gas was discovered.

The burning of the coal in this way is the same as the method of making charcoal with wood.

The by-product of burning the coal to make the gas was coke.  You didn't need to nick it the gasworks couldn't give it away fast enough.  The trouble with town gas was that is was extremely sulphurous, and had to be filtered through 'some sort of soil'.  Memory lets me down on that.

Had a school trip to the gasworks, at the end of Gas Street in Burton upon Trent, which town was selected as the first town to be converted to 'natural' gas. ;D ;D

The bit I really remember is that dad had a greenhouse 45' x 15'.  It had a little coke burning stove, which circulated hot water round the pipes round the edge of the greenhouse.  Back in the late 1940's, the sodding greenhouse was better heated than the house, ??? ??? ;D

valmarg
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: pippy on November 01, 2008, 18:16:38
Wow - thats more scientific than I would have known ! :D

What I meant was that different types of coal burn with different properties.  For example, coalite (nutty slack we used to call it!) burns very quickly with a high heat so is good for starting a fire.  Then there is furnicite, which burns more steadily, anthracite burns hotter but quite steadily.  Raw steam coal is much more unstable as we found out  :o

Steamboats and steam engines (boilers) in general generate steam from a boiler which will have a holding capacity of small amounts of steam.  The one we used didn't have much holding capacity at all which meant that whatever steam you generated had to be used fairly immediately.  People who run them have quite a few ways of dealing with this.  My favourite was called a "Windemere Kettle" which is basically a steam pipe coiled into a kettle and then out of the boat.  Makes hot water for tea in about 10 seconds!!  Steamboaters drink a lot of tea!  Especially when appraching locks ;D
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on November 10, 2008, 19:06:26
 

  Memories are made of these too,

  I have, on occasion come out with the odd ' saying ' , probably from my Mum and more than likely
  originating from my Nan, and my grandchildren say  ' what do you mean Nan ' ?
 
  In all honesty - sometimes I don't know !

  Think my roots started further North than London, so someone may recognise a few of these,

  ' You'd laugh to see a puddin roll '                   

  ' My eye and Betty Martin '

  ' As black as nugates nugget '

  ' Don't play by the meskins '

   OH still tells me to ' get out the horse road ' and he is from Brum.

Would love to hear of any more and where you think they came from ?

   floss x

 

   

 


Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: manicscousers on November 10, 2008, 19:50:13
ray's got 2 books of these, with the origins, will try to dig them out  ;D
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on November 11, 2008, 07:19:34

   Thanks manics, will look forward to hearing a few more,   ;D

   floss x
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: valmarg on November 11, 2008, 18:55:45
The only two I can help with flossy are:

'My eye and Betty Martin' - We say 'all my eye and Betsy Martin'.  It means a load of old rubbish and nonsense.  But who Betty/Betsy Martin was I've no Idea.

The other one is: 'As black as nugates nugget'.  I think the correct original expression is 'as black as Newgate's knocker'.  Newgate was an old London prison, and presumably the knocker on the front door was black. ;D

valmarg
Title: Re: Yester-year
Post by: flossy on November 12, 2008, 18:15:11


   Thanks valmarg,

    Will try and find out where Betty/Betsy  Martin quote came from, but thats interesting about
    Newgate Prison,   

    At one time  - as a child I thought I heard  ' as black as nougats nugget '  imagining the
    most awful looking bar of nougat !

    Found out that the ' meskins '  meant the  dustbins in the back yard , wise words.

    floss x