The other day, we're at the table, eating lamb. "What's a vegetarian", asks my 3 year old daughter. . . apparently a friend of hers, aged 3, is one...
What should I have said? (I'll tell you what I did say after any replies)...
I was going to comment, but I need to hear your reply......................conversations with kids are brilliant.
This is gunna be good knowing you :D
Sitting in the company of vegetarians is safe because vegetarians eat vegetables.
Be extra careful if invited to sit in the company of humanitarians.
My niece calls me a vegetable-arian, which is kind of accurate.
Quote from: OllieC on October 08, 2008, 23:56:34
"What's a vegetarian"
It is a native american indian word. It means lousy hunter ;)
Quote from: Bean_Queen on October 09, 2008, 05:37:33
My niece calls me a vegetable-arian, which is kind of accurate.
are you sure? wasn't Adolf Hitler a vegetable-arian ?
Watching 'Mock the Week' the other day, PMSL.....the subject was: 'What you don't hear said at a dinner party'
'There is a vegetarian option....you can f*** off!"
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Deb P on October 09, 2008, 10:20:15
Watching 'Mock the Week' the other day, PMSL.....the subject was: 'What you don't hear said at a dinner party'
'There is a vegetarian option....you can f*** off!"
;D ;D ;D
;D ;D
My dh is vegetarian but my son most definately IS NOT! (He's only 4 as well!)
When asking him about whether he wanted school lunches the other day, he asked "what's on the menu?" So I replied - savoury mince in yorkshire pudding or vegetarian mince in yorkshire pudding.
"Oh - savoury mince please 'cos I'm meat, not vegetarian!!" ;D
Frampers
Taking a vegetarian friend to dine in an Italian household, I said she didn't eat anything if it had a face. Pause ... ... for thought. Deep thought (not too many Italians are vegetarians) ... "What, even mushrooms?" I gave up at that point.
Quote from: OllieC on October 08, 2008, 23:56:34
The other day, we're at the table, eating lamb. "What's a vegetarian", asks my 3 year old daughter. . . apparently a friend of hers, aged 3, is one...
What should I have said? (I'll tell you what I did say after any replies)...
Your answer should have been 'someone who eats neither meat nor chicken nor fish (no flesh whatsoever).
Somebody who it is advisable to stand clear of when they break wind. ;D ;D
valmarg
You're wrong there, carnivore farts are much worse. Anyone with a dog or cat knows that.
cats' farts - SBD - silent but deadly :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Anyone volunteering to look into these last 3 posts?
I'm sure the result would be waited on with baited breath ::)
cj :)
I blame the animals. It's their fault that they taste delicious and are so easy to catch
QuoteAnyone volunteering to look into these last 3 posts?
CJ. Are you suggesting that we all look up the cats bottom? The mind boggles. ???
Okay... my answer was, and I realise that not all people will agree with this viewpoint - said mainly because I want her to continue to eat meat until she's stopped growing. Her morals can be her own choice when she has the maturity & information to make them.
A vegetarian is someone who thinks that the animal you're eating shouldn't have lived. It shouldn't have spent a year hopping and running around a field, before dieing in a much nicer way than people do.
She now thinks vegetarians are people who don't like animals... which wasn't what I intended but it'll do the job for now.
I believe the origin of the term vegetarian goes back to an old native American word meaning bad hunter. or at least that is how the joke goes.
Quote from: OllieC on October 10, 2008, 13:50:49
Okay... my answer was, and I realise that not all people will agree with this viewpoint - said mainly because I want her to continue to eat meat until she's stopped growing. Her morals can be her own choice when she has the maturity & information to make them.
A vegetarian is someone who thinks that the animal you're eating shouldn't have lived. It shouldn't have spent a year hopping and running around a field, before dieing in a much nicer way than people do.
She now thinks vegetarians are people who don't like animals... which wasn't what I intended but it'll do the job for now.
To paraphrase you:
A vegetarian is someone who thinks that the superselected unnatural animal you're eating shouldn't have lived. It shouldn't have spent a year crammed in a lightless, airless shed limping around on legs not strong enough to hold its specially bred propensity to gain weight at an alarming and excessive rate, whilst being pumped full of anti-biotics before being shipped in an overcrowded lorry to wait in a queue, watching its compatritiots from the overcrowded shed being slaughtered before it is etc etc etc.
Yeah, you're right Vegetarians don't like animals ::)
Quote from: redclanger on October 10, 2008, 16:07:39
Quote from: OllieC on October 10, 2008, 13:50:49
Okay... my answer was, and I realise that not all people will agree with this viewpoint - said mainly because I want her to continue to eat meat until she's stopped growing. Her morals can be her own choice when she has the maturity & information to make them.
A vegetarian is someone who thinks that the animal you're eating shouldn't have lived. It shouldn't have spent a year hopping and running around a field, before dieing in a much nicer way than people do.
She now thinks vegetarians are people who don't like animals... which wasn't what I intended but it'll do the job for now.
To paraphrase you:
A vegetarian is someone who thinks that the superselected unnatural animal you're eating shouldn't have lived. It shouldn't have spent a year crammed in a lightless, airless shed limping around on legs not strong enough to hold its specially bred propensity to gain weight at an alarming and excessive rate, whilst being pumped full of anti-biotics before being shipped in an overcrowded lorry to wait in a queue, watching its compatritiots from the overcrowded shed being slaughtered before it is etc etc etc.
Yeah, you're right Vegetarians don't like animals ::)
Paraphrase? I think you mean misunderstand! But.... how else do you win a propaganda war with a 3 year old? Would you be comfy bringing up a kid as a veggie - which is, as you know a moral minefield anyway? And I know the farmer who grew this particular lamb - it did hop around in a field... we only eat ethical meat here...
p.s. I would like to add - this is not an attempt to wind up veggies - I respect everyone's right to eat anything produced ethically... I'm not even convinced I said the right thing, but I couldn't think of anything better at the time & wanted her to eat up!
I am not a vegetarian but I'm curious to know why you want your daughter to eat meat until she has stopped growing (which I think is about 18 or maybe in even 21 in girls?) It is perfectly possibly to have a healthy and balanced diet as a vegetarian.
You may have manged to hoodwink her with an inaccurate answer for now but believe me she will find you out. And she will certainly make up her own mind long before she's 18/21 whether or not she cares to eat meat.
For the record my daughter decided to become a vegetarian when she was about nine. I respected her wishes and we bought cook books and shared the dishes. As it happened it turned out to be a fad and she went back to eating meat after about three months. But I still think I was right to to allow her to experiment and make up her own mind.
G x
As a vegetarian, I have never dictated to my kids. From weaning, they have had a choice and they drift in and out of being veggie but most of the time eat meat. I would have no problem bringing them up veggie though if that is what they choose.
The age thing is easy to answer - it's easier to provide a balanced diet if she eats what we eat. Our diet with the meat removed would not be appropriate for a child to grow on.
I became a veggie at the age of 17, and didn't eat meat for 4 years. I started again when I decided that I was entirely comfortable with eating ethically produced meat.
Many people are veggie because they don't like the idea of killing animals. But they still eat dairy products which is worse (live veal exports being a byproduct of the dairy trade, for example)... I do have a problem with the lecturing veggie who feels themselves to be morally superior to me, and I have known some who are ignorant of the full facts. I genuinely believe that my personal view on the morality of eating meat is more consistant than most veggies - and probably less than most vegans.
Also, I don't really think what I told my daughter was inaccurate - just incomplete... It's better than the lie I was told about ice cream vans only playing music when they'd ran out of ice cream!
Ethically produced meat ? never heard that one before about meat. Or are these animals who don't get killed in order to be eaten?
I'd just like to say I did a posting on here a while ago about eating less meat and was really impressed with the way everyone respected each others views! The complexities of farming and eating have been so removed from us in our world that these discussions strike me as the most vital thing about taking our society forward into a more "real food" approach, whether veggie or not.
Personally I think there are huge factors at play. Genetics for a start - some people seem to be able to sustain a veggie diet better than others. Your environment must also be linked with this - after all there are huge tracts of people in India who have lived a vegetarian diet for centuries. Transpose them here and they get problems (lack of sunlight - vitamin D deficiency for a start).
The chemical laiden, factory farmed stuff the supermarkets sell is very far removed from real food and more and more the gaff is being blown on this. We are clearly poisoning outselves as the Roman Empire did in its corruptive phases.
Also there seems to be the symbiosis with vegetable and meat farming - you must realise that for a cow to produce milk year in year out it must also be producing a calf. Also the manure we need for out veg....
Like Ollie, I encourage my kids to eat meat, but I also try to explain to them that we look at where it has come from and have it was farmed. There is far too much to even try to explain to a 3 year old! Well done Ollie!
There are two types of vegetarian, those who believe in it, and those who love fluffy animals.
The fluffy animal ones always grow out of it, both my sisters and neices have grown out of it.
I once had a friend who claimed to be a vegetarian, but she said it was ok to eat chicken and fish, as they don't count. (down to them not being fluffy I suppose) ::)
Well written Pippy and well done Ollie 8)
My husband and I are both vegetarian. This is very easy in England, but when we go to Sicily where he was born, it is a big problem. For a start all his relatives look on him as being slightly insane and do their best to convert him back to 'real' food. Then, if we are out somewhere and want a quick bite to eat it is almost impossible to find meat-free snacks. We asked a shopkeeper if there was any meat in the pizza and he said "No, no meat, just ham!"
My son has been vegetarian since he was three years old, his partner is vegetarian and their daughter aged two has never had meat. They eat a very healthy well-balanced diet. I don't know what they will do if their daughter ever asks for meat, I'll have to ask him.
Thanks Mrs B. I forgot to mention the ethical and evironmental factors were now also supposed to look at! Is it any wonder we are all confused??
Basically Beef has the highest carbon footprint of all and surprisingly milk, cheese, butter etc are almost as high. Lamb is confusing as British lamb in Autumn is quite low but I read that Spring lamb is much higher as it is reared in barns during the winter on stored fodder. Apparently New Zealand lamb, shipped as it is is accually a lower C.F. at this time of year! (Doesn't stop me supporting British farmers tho). Pork is between lamb and beef and chicken ( I think?) was a bit lower than lamb.
One great thing about British autumn lamb is it is virtually always free range (back to farming methods). Pork is rearely free range and there are some nasty hormonal practices - I have heard a full grow pig is produced hormonally in less than half the time it takes to mature naturally. Quite worrying. There has been loads of press on chicken rearing so I won't mention that.
Lets all take our own choices !
Quote from: OllieC on October 10, 2008, 17:57:36
The age thing is easy to answer - it's easier to provide a balanced diet if she eats what we eat. Our diet with the meat removed would not be appropriate for a child to grow on.
Thanks for your explanation, Ollie. I can see that it's more convenient in a family if everyone eats the same food (more or less) and I'm a firm believer in families sitting down together for their meals where this is practicable. My question was out of genuine interest but I still maintain that you will be very lucky parents indeed if you think you will be able to impose your will in this matter on your daughter until she is a young adult.
G x
PS Why do ice cream vans ring their bells then? ;)
Hi Georgie,
At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!
To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...
I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.
2 of my 3 kids became vegetarian round about puberty. Neither is now.
I have more problems with the dairy stuff than the meat, especially if the meat is hill reared lamb. Having found pregnancy a pain in the **** I am very unhappy with cows being kept lactating without the presence of their calf. Despite this I probably eat more butter, cheese, cream etc than I do meat.
I could not eat margarine and when cream and cheese are the way to go i can't think what to replace them with?
Ollie I have always believed in being straight up with children. If they decide to be different it costs a bit more and gives you more hassle, however when they reach the age where they are hormonally challenged (teenage) they are far more likely to be on your side. And that's when you need them to be.
Annabelle is currently enjoying what you all eat and will probably accept that her vegetarian friend is out of order because she does something different.
Better imho to be up front with her - but don't give her all the gruesome details (I know you wouldn't anyway) just that some people eat animals and some only eat vegetables??
Quote from: OllieC on October 10, 2008, 20:27:34
Hi Georgie,
At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!
To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...
I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.
ROFL, sounds like you've got your work cut out then. ;D
Sorry to go a bit off topic but my daughter was (well is) spirited too and I thought I would share this little story. I distinctly remember when she was about three and a half and had been nagging me for sometime for a brother or sister. (I was a single parent at the time and I'd told her that this was not possible because Daddy and Mummy no longer lived together and it took a man and a woman to make a baby.) Anyway, we were in the local high street when she pulled my arm and said, sotto voice: 'Mummy, you know you said it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. Well, that man over there looks nice, couldn't he give you a baby?' I think there were a number of folks dining out on that that evening. ;D
G x
Quote from: OllieC on October 10, 2008, 20:27:34
Hi Georgie,
At the tender age of 3, she is already astonishingly able to make her views entirely clear!! Asbean, Eristic, Raised bed Ted & Pauline7 can all confirm that she's a delightful yet astonishingly spirited child. Well, I hope they would!!! Perhaps they'd just cut to "spirited". This is my payback for being somewhat spirited myself as a child!
To put it in context, when Annabelle asks a question, she's already trying to outmanoeuvre you, 3 steps ahead...
I dunno about Ice Cream Vans... I think the noise they now make is a warning of imminent overpriced poor quality sugary things.
Yep, I can definitely confirm that. I am not comfortable around children (everyone said it would be different when I had my own, but it wasn't) and I managed to go a whole day without cringing once. She's a little sweetie-pie, bright as a button. Mind you, good parenting has a lot to do with that. I've got a great niece of 14 months, and if she's half as bright as Annabelle in a couple of years' time, she'll be doing well. :) :) :) :) :)
Quote from: asbean on October 10, 2008, 22:27:21
Yep, I can definitely confirm that. I am not comfortable around children (everyone said it would be different when I had my own, but it wasn't) and I managed to go a whole day without cringing once. She's a little sweetie-pie, bright as a button. Mind you, good parenting has a lot to do with that. I've got a great niece of 14 months, and if she's half as bright as Annabelle in a couple of years' time, she'll be doing well. :) :) :) :) :)
I second that Asbean. Annabelle is a delightful child and full credit to her parents.