What a mess our financial system is in.
My first thought was no why should tax payers rescue them but the more I listen and learn I think it will have far reaching consequences on us all.
You will find it very hard to get a mortgage,unemployment will rise and peoples pensions will be affected.That is to name just a few.It will end up costing the tax payer a lot more.
My brother was about to cash in his shares in the insurance company that he works for to help pay for part of his wedding - there's no point now that the value has plummeted on them. It's all looking very scary. As a student I suppose in a sense I'm lucky in that I don't have to worry necessarily about losing a job and I don't have a mortage, but my grants and loans certainly don't go as far as they did two years ago and both me and my kids have had to seriously tighten our builts over recent months. My dad's new business however is certainly suffering (he's a plumber). I guess I can see why the economy needs to be bailed out, however I do have issues in that if Joe Bloggs makes bad business decisions, it's tough and he's bankrupt, yet if city fat cats make bad decisions, they get bailed out.
Busy looking up recipes for whey now they've taken all the cream! ::)
I've had to put another four years on my Mortgage to keep the payments at what I can afford, I was inside the last ten!! Why should we bail out mega bonus Bas***ds who got it wrong... ::)
We have decided to tighten belts more now and increase mortgage payments for the next 3 years to soften the blow when our fixed rate ends. Our mortgage payments would increase 30% if our current fixed rate was to finish today.
I know it's simplistic, but how come governments can find billions of pounds to bail out bank and still miss their targets on reducing child poverty?
It's not the bail out that I object to - It's the fact that they are STILL getting obscene bonuses. There has to be legislation to stop this. And It isn't just the banks doing it either ... >:( >:(
I was saying that to the Mrs today Caroline - there's kids eating mud cakes in Africa (where they add clay to the flour to bulk it out), and we can afford to give all this money to bail out very very rich people. And don't get me started on how much we've spent on this illegal war...
They want to bail them out because the economy will go into nose dive if they do not.This is not something that just affects fat cats it will affect us all.
No point in saying why don't they give to this that or the other. :) :)
Quote from: OllieC on September 30, 2008, 17:17:32
I was saying that to the Mrs today Caroline - there's kids eating mud cakes in Africa (where they add clay to the flour to bulk it out), and we can afford to give all this money to bail out very very rich people. And don't get me started on how much we've spent on this illegal war...
I never know about the war thing. I agree it is illegal, but sometimes, i think, maybe it is worth it. Not disagreeing not wanted to go off thread. But i see more money being wasted in other areas.
I am firm believer in if you generate money for someone you deserve a share, you know how it is Ollie, financial services. always comission based from top to bottom.
Its hitting us really hard.
i guess hubby and i and lucky, we both have good jobs, though how safe his is remains to be seen, we dont have expensive tastes or hobbies and rarely go to the cinema, pub etc, dont smoke either but do eat out occasionally. we also pay maintenance for 3 children plus their expenses and pocket money etc.
we do not complain about what we have and count ourselves very fortunate but what irritates me is when the government decides to put money towards young people going to the theatre for free why? surely there are better things the money could be spent on in my humble opinion i guess they are trying to bribe the next lot of voters!!!! ;D
Think everyone needs to tighten their belts for a bit, things will get tough for everyone at some point.
Know the person who had to make the 370 people redundant regarding the B&B, he was mortified, especially knowing his job was probably next.
The thing is, there would be even worse repercusions if the bail out didn't happen.
OH's job looking pretty ropey at the moment ( works in conveyancing ) so we have to tighten our belts especially hard just in case the worst happens. 4 kids and Christmas coming will make things interesting..... ::)
Maybe we should start a thread on how to survive the credit crunch... top tips and homemade pressies! :D
we're doing just that this year, we have a home made christmas every couple of years, including saved brown paper, decorated..saved tissue paper as wrapping paper and home made crackers..I make creams and salves, ray made calendars last time..it's brilliant..this year, I'm doing chutneys, jams and pickles, strings of dried chillies..of course, we get a gift from the wish list, only up to 10.00 in value ;D
the kids are the exception, I've yet to find out how to make ben 10 figures ;D ;D
I'd jail 'em - 20 years for endangering the welfare of the nation by reckless and wanton disregard. No-one will be untouched by this.
(I'd also remove parts of their anatomy for jewellery purposes, but that's just me)
Quote from: Amazin on October 01, 2008, 00:46:22
I'd jail 'em - 20 years for endangering the welfare of the nation by reckless and wanton disregard. No-one will be untouched by this.
(I'd also remove parts of their anatomy for jewellery purposes, but that's just me)
If you jail all the bankers and financiers, the economy would crash even more! I think the media have a lot to answer for in this present situation too as they have caused panic in the financial market. Let's hope Bush can get an agreement on the bail out in the USA as that will definitely help the British economy.
i'd love the security of knowing that if i ran my business of 25 years in the same cavalier fashion that these bankers have done,i would have the government(i.e. your and my taxes)to bail me out....
bring back the roundheads say i!
kitty
xx
That's what gets my goat as well - the banks take risks like lending 5x salary self certified mortgages and then expect honest hard working people to fund their losses when the loans don't pay back, sorry but that's a business risk and they should take the losses from their pockets and not ours.
If I were to stop paying my mortgage I'd have my home repossesed and not be bailed out by my neighbours.
PS. Mind you would I be right in thinking that if the US invests all this cash in these failing banks that they're effectively buying the 'bad' debts that they have? Surely these bad debts will pay back their dues plus interest over time netting the government their money back plus a heap of interest? I wonder which fat cats pocket that'll go into?
As a time served mortgage broker, I can safely say that nobody I'm aware of has ever offered 5 times income on a self certified mortgage.
Sorry - media hysteria had taken over my keyboard! What's the limit then?
After my ill health we had problems as i could not work and i had no help money wise, not even free prescriptions !!!
As a result we hit problems and are now trying hard to sort it.
I have 5 language students living here all winter till next May, its the only way we can keep on top of it all and dig our way out :(
It was so easy to get more cash when we neaded it but it has to be paided back and many people forget that and end up lossing their homes :(
I get angry when i hear about people going on expensive holidays ect and expect others to pay their rent ect !!!!
We have to go back to spending what we have and not wanting everything NOW !!
To be honest saving up for something makes you care for it far more.
My advise is never get ill or take out some good insurance against it as 3 of mine didn't pay out even though i had cancer :(
QuoteIf you jail all the bankers and financiers, the economy would crash even more!
Who said jail them all, Paulines7?
I'm talking about the people who were recklessly gambling for very high stakes who are clearly guilty of robbing people of their money, families of their homes and chilldren of their security.
The woman who was found guilty of conning auction houses out of paintings, jewellery and antiques is facing a jail sentence for £2m worth of goodies. If we take her sentence and multiply it by the billions wiped off the stock market and the cost of the job losses, 20 years would be chicken feed.
And Kitty, if you ran your business in a cavalier fashion, wouldn't that be a feather in your cap?
;D
(coat on, out the door!)
Quote from: jonny211 on October 01, 2008, 16:35:10
Sorry - media hysteria had taken over my keyboard! What's the limit then?
Ha, very good! 3.5 times income was about the upper end, and "total personal income" was the phrase often used...
You could get over 5 times your income without proof with Northern Rock, but only if you had a high or medium credit score. They would lend a bit more if you went for a 5 or 10 year fixed rate - due to the protection this would give you. They operated a fast-track system which many people confuse with a self-cert mortgage although there are a couple of important differences, the main one being that they reserve the right to ask for proof of income at a later date, even after the mortgage has completed. Can't provide it & you could be accused of fraud.
In fact, lying about your income on any mortgage application - even self-cert, is fraud and it always amazed me that any broker would get involved with this (most people I know wouldn't do this). I only ever used self-cert for self employed people, or people with big bonuses or second jobs... which is what they were meant for.
Having said this, it often surprised me how little proof some lenders would ask for - like the time I arranged a loan for someone (who ran his own business) of just under a million pounds & he didn't even have to show one year's accounts (we did have them but that's not the point). Almost like a system designed to be abused, a cynic might say!
When the first building societies started doing mortgages 3 times income was the "RULE" no arguing, interview with the bank manager etc etc.
Problem was house prices were far out stripping practical lending, All these people who said "hold on, Freds just asked 100K, right i am going to ask £105K" are also to blame. i remember a person in Wells next T' sea rubbing there hands because because Mr Londoner. Paid WAY over the top. the very next breath was complaining her son could'nt afford to buy locally. SHE was one of the causes.
The real problem starts when you start having high loan to values, 125% of your house value is crazy. However, if people already had loans these could be rolled in as unsecured borrowing, over longer terms (more interest!!!) therefore improving "affordability". Theres the justification. Should of stuck at 3x salary.
Ref self cert. Was a disaster waiting to happen. I too could not believe it. You were basically given free reign to commit mortgage fraud. Was dressed up "we wont check" or as you say Ollie "fastrack" it genuinely helped some people but others....Tch, you would not believe it.
Hi All,
I have to admit that I don't have many probs. in this regard except that I have to trim my cloth because of rising fuel/food/etc. costs & I accept that.
The reason for these problems is purely greed on the part of Banks/Hedge Fund Managers/ the public and all the other Financial money grabbing bast**ds.
The Worlds Governments are finally getting their 'brains' around this. It'll take more than a few years to settle down - but hey! don't be greedy anymore!
When you go out for a £4 pint - think on---------
I think the problem is that some folk see housing as a means of investment and money-making, not as somewhere to live (a HOME) most folk talk about their house in terms of worth not comfort! ;)
tonybloke,
Correct. And people borrowed on the strength of their (perceived) investment. Not wise now, was it?
But hey! most of us have enjoyed the paper increase in our house purchace. Just sold our house by reducing the price 30%. A buyer was delighted & bought it. I still made a decent 'profit' on the original investment - so two happy bunnies!
If more folkes thought the same way - maybe our 'society' would adjust to real world?
Quote from: telboy on October 03, 2008, 21:43:12
Just sold our house by reducing the price 30%. A buyer was delighted & bought it. I still made a decent 'profit' on the original investment - so two happy bunnies!
Don't go into politics telboy - you're too honest!
Jon
I can't help feeling that a lot of the problems with the housing market have stemmed from dual income mortgages, as these mortgages have helped push the houseprices high AND have encouraged couples to over stretch themselves. Had mortgages only been awarded against a single income (the highest one naturally), had mortgage lenders stuck to the old 2.5 times the salary and refused to lend above 90%, then prices wouldn't have escalated so stupidly and many households would not be in negative equity.
I do believe that the financial institutions need to accept responsibility for a lot of the problems within the economy at the moment and should be made accountable for this however, the consumer must also take some of the blame. The problem with society as a whole is the general feeling that the consumer has a right to buy what he/she wants when he/she wants to and sod the consequences (look at how easy and without shame it is to declare bankruptcy now). God forbid that the consumer be expected to actually save a decent deposit for a house, or be expected to save up for the latest T.V., stereo, mobile phone etc.
Now that the 'credit crunch' is starting to bite, the man on the street is crying foul but the reality is that we all now need to make the adjustment back to responible buying, instead of borrowing to pay for even the most basic aspects of living. I know people who claim not to be able to live, are, allegedly, struggling to pay for food but, somehow, they are still able to afford to eat out once a week, go on holiday etc. etc.
We were just as bad as Jo Public but, thankfully, my hubby realised 3yrs ago that we were heading towards ruin and so we pulled our belts in, took control and now, 3 years on, we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. We've learnt our lessons and we wont be making the same mistakes again. Sadly I don't think that the financial institutes will learn their lessons and, give it a few years, I believe they will be back on the easy credit track, raking it in at the expense of the consumer and we, the consumer, will let them.
Reet
x
Reetnproper, that's a good post (IMHO).
Also blame tv programmes with the make a fast buck or thousands such as Location, Location, Location and the like which take away the affordable stuff for the youngsters and kid others.
My parents had us three children in their parents' rented house until they could save up to afford their own place. Our two haven't a hope in heaven of buying a chicken coop in the village until they reach retirement age!
Been abroad 3 times since we've had the children and now 29 and 27. Put all our income into the mortgage.
There's only one consolation here - those banks have bled us all dry and now the well is empty, will be be looking to the little peeps again - their bread and butter. What goes around, comes around - just hold on!
Ninnyscrops
RBS is quickly going down the drain, as they also have Coutts under their umbrella, I reckon I might loose a few clients soon. :( I bet the queen must be worried ;)
I've been wondering and debating with my OH on what happens when a bank goes under and hasn't been bailed out by the government/ other financial institution. does its borrowers debts get cancelled or do the borrows still have to pay their mortgages and loans and if so to whom would they be paying. so can anyone clear this up for me ??? thanks in advance for your replies :).
Any lender is entitled to sell your mortgage debt anyway (on the existing terms & conditions), so it would count as an asset & you would almost certainly still have to pay.
This has been a problem in the past - for example, I would place a loan with GMAC who had a pretty flexible lending policy. They would sell a loan book to Britannia (who have a pretty rigid policy) which Britannia would buy because they hadn't met their lending target. The customer would then move house, wanting a small increase, but Britannia would not allow it because new lending would fall under their policy. This cased problems for a couple of my clients...
Quote from: OllieC on October 07, 2008, 10:03:28
Any lender is entitled to sell your mortgage debt anyway (on the existing terms & conditions), so it would count as an asset & you would almost certainly still have to pay.
This has been a problem in the past - for example, I would place a loan with GMAC who had a pretty flexible lending policy. They would sell a loan book to Britannia (who have a pretty rigid policy) which Britannia would buy because they hadn't met their lending target. The customer would then move house, wanting a small increase, but Britannia would not allow it because new lending would fall under their policy. This cased problems for a couple of my clients...
so what you are saying is; if a bank goes under, its mortgages and loans will have to be sold to someone who will therefore be in charge of receiving your payments. then what happens if no one wants to buy the ''portfolio'' from the stricken bank? or does this not ever happen?
PS the wealth of info on this site truly knows no bounds, I've learnt so much from this post, simply because the explanations are clear and concise with no unnecessary jargon, thanks again.
It's never happened, as far as I know! But I think you would owe their creditors... Seems a bit one-way doesn't it! They can theoretically lose all your savings (okay, apart from the £50k knee-jerk thing), but they can't lose your debt.
Woody Guthrie said:
I've travelled all around this world, seen lots of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixshooter and some with a fountain pen,
Now as through this world you ramble, and through this world you roam,
You'll never find an outlaw drive a family from their home.
the bottom line seems to be - if you owe your bank a thousand, it's your problem. If you owe them a billion, it's their problem. Actually not their problem - still our problem ???
Just heard that Iceland has been repossessed
Quote from: OllieC on October 07, 2008, 10:30:00
It's never happened, as far as I know! But I think you would owe their creditors... Seems a bit one-way doesn't it! They can theoretically lose all your savings (okay, apart from the £50k knee-jerk thing), but they can't lose your debt.
Nice >:(.
Quote from: Rhubarb Thrasher on October 07, 2008, 11:48:11
Just heard that Iceland has been repossessed
well i would have assumed they would have stayed in the black due to their merchandise of cheap low rate food :-X.
Quote from: Rhubarb Thrasher on October 07, 2008, 11:48:11
Just heard that Iceland has been repossessed
Where's mom going to go now?!?!
There's a song in there somewhere...
Mum's gone to Iceland, But Icelands gone to sh*t
The bankers say they're not to blame, it's global economics,
My mortgage has gone through the roof, at least the roof's still mine,
And I can make the payments if I do some overtime
etc... or something.
this short selling is a lark, isn't it? You give your shares to a broker to look after.....err no. you give your shares to a broker - he she or it *borrows*them, gets together with his her it's mates, and sells them all off, the share price goes through the floor, your broker buy them back, gives them back to you, and trousers the difference Genius! And in America at least, if you hadn't yet paid for your shares, they didn't have to tell you they were doing it
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p94/rhubarbthrasher/matt071008_1004877a.gif)
Good news at last if Iceland has gone. Won't have to watch that terrible advert. Perhaps Asda will go and we will not have to watch them all patting their bottoms.
in order to raise funds for Iceland, Bjork has just put herself up for auction on ebay! I shall certainly be bidding ;D
I found her but she's gone so loopy she's turned into a hamster house.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Medium-Bjork-Natural-Wood-Hamster-Gerbil-Pet-Home-6161_W0QQitemZ290266162552QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290266162552&_trkparms=72%3A1297%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Medium-Bjork-Natural-Wood-Hamster-Gerbil-Pet-Home-6161_W0QQitemZ290266162552QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290266162552&_trkparms=72%3A1297%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
Slightly OT but I've a question for Ollie - and anyone. My brain just isn't wired to understand how mortgages work.
I have a mortgage and my introductory period ends in three years time and it was for 5 years. So during that 5 years I've paid off say £50k. As I understand it that's mostly going towards paying off the interest on the mortgage, not knocking down the amount borrowed.
So if I then remortgage with a different lender do I have practically start over again as my £50k hasn't paid much if at all anything off of my mortgage - only the interest?
If so doesn't this sound like a massive scam weighted in the favour of the lender as the payments barely touch the amount for the loan rather than going 50/50 on the loan and interest?
OT again looking at the definition of usury which I believe mortgages to be, I found this:-
Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity
Cheerio.
Jon
Our savings are with Icesave and have now been frozen. Just effing fantastic.
Quote from: SamLouise on October 07, 2008, 22:06:02
Our savings are with Icesave and have now been frozen. Just effing fantastic.
So sorry to hear that. Just watching the news, they are saying that deposits up to £50k are protected with £16k from the Iceland government and £34k from the FSA but it will take a few months to come through. What a mess.
Could someone tell me where the £50 billion is coming from to "lend" to the banks ???
Quote from: jonny211 on October 07, 2008, 21:17:59
I have a mortgage and my introductory period ends in three years time and it was for 5 years. So during that 5 years I've paid off say £50k. As I understand it that's mostly going towards paying off the interest on the mortgage, not knocking down the amount borrowed.
So if I then remortgage with a different lender do I have practically start over again as my £50k hasn't paid much if at all anything off of my mortgage - only the interest?
Hi Jon
I'm no mortgage broker but I believe that it depends upon the type of mortgage you have. If it's repayment then you pay back some of the capital i.e. the initial amount you borrowed plus the interest. If it's an interest only mortgage (more usually known as an endowment or pension mortgage) then yes you are only paying the interest accruing. The added kick in the teeth with these is that the value of your endowment/pension has probably plummeted along with the rest of the stock market. :(
Only know this because my mortgage is due for rebroking and I've spent several hours today talking to the mortgage broker.
HTH and I'm sure that OllieC will be along to give you the complete answer.
Frampers
Ah yes, I should've added that it's a repayment mortgage - told you I was clueless!
Jon
jonny211, I'd agree with Sixtus V. Muslims don't do usury. They have I think special mortgages to get round it, not sure of the details.
Morning all, on this lovely sunny day (also my BIRTHDAY!!!)...
I think "bankspeak" makes the interest calculation more complicated than it has to be. For nearly all lenders, having a mortgage is no different to having savings, just a minus sign in front. The graphs they show you, Interest Only vs. Repayment do little to clarify things. After any period of time, you owe the original loan, plus any interest, minus any payments.
An approximate example (approximate for rather dull reasons, but very close to the truth!) is:
Mortgage of £100,000, Interest rate of 6%, 25 years repayment = monthly payment of £651.89.
At the end of month one, the interest added is (6% of £100,000) divided by 12 = £500
Your payment is £651.89, so you have reduced the balance by £151.89, and do the same sum next month, by which time the loan is slightly smaller, so you pay slightly more capital off.
If you paid £858.02 each month, you would finish repaying the loan in 15 years...
I don't know that I've explained it very well - the shorter answer is that if you remortgage after the "Initial Benefit period", and keep the term the same as whatever's remaining, then you'll still be on track to finish when you originally intended...
Does this help at all? I was out rather late last night having a birthday curry & drinks! Most people don't get it, if it's any consolation. I've known plenty of mortgage brokers who don't actually get the maths!
Quote from: OllieC on October 08, 2008, 10:00:43
Morning all, on this lovely sunny day (also my BIRTHDAY!!!)...
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/thifasmom/birthday_cake_6.png)
Have a good one :)
Quote from: OllieC on October 08, 2008, 10:00:43
Mortgage of £100,000, Interest rate of 6%, 25 years repayment = monthly payment of £651.89.
At the end of month one, the interest added is (6% of £100,000) divided by 12 = £500
Your payment is £651.89, so you have reduced the balance by £151.89, and do the same sum next month, by which time the loan is slightly smaller, so you pay slightly more capital off.
Here's the first year using Ollie's example - hope it's correct
Interest Payment Outstanding Loan
Initial Loan 100,000.00
Month 1 500.00 651.89 99,848.11
Month 2 499.24 651.89 99,695.46
Month 3 498.48 651.89 99,542.05
Month 4 497.71 651.89 99,387.87
Month 5 496.94 651.89 99,232.92
Month 6 496.16 651.89 99,077.19
Month 7 495.39 651.89 98,920.69
Month 8 494.60 651.89 98,763.40
Month 9 493.82 651.89 98,605.33
Month 10 493.03 651.89 98,446.47
Month 11 492.23 651.89 98,286.81
Month 12 491.43 651.89 98,126.35
Interest Paid 5,949.03
Capital Re-paid 1,873.65
As each month passes the loan reduces so the interest reduces and more of the payment goes towards reducing the original loan: In the first month £151.89 is repaid in the twelfth month £160.46 (651.89-491.43)
Happy Birthday Ollie! :)
Quote from: ninnyscrops on October 07, 2008, 22:22:45
Could someone tell me where the £50 billion is coming from to "lend" to the banks ???
THE government is to invest £500bn of your money in British banks so they can lend it back to you with interest.
The historic move is being hailed as a lifeline for the financial system as long as nobody asks too many questions.
Julian Cook, chief economist at Corbett and Barker, said: "The government will give your money to the banks so the banks can start lending you that money, probably at around 7% APR.
"Thanks to all the interest you're paying on your own money, the banks will make billions of pounds again and normality will be restored.
"After a few years of this the government will cash in the bank shares it bought with your money and use the profits to build a huge f**k**g dome somewhere."
He added: "In case you hadn't already worked it out - the entire global financial system is predicated on the assumption that you're an idiot."
Chancellor Alistair Darling said the decision had been taken in tandem with the banking industry, adding: "They used a lot of dirty words I'd never heard before and one of them had an angry looking dog."
Meanwhile, Emma Bradford, a sales manager from Bath, said: "Why doesn't the government just give my money to me so I can buy stuff from businesses who will then make a profit and put it in a bank?"
But Mr Darling insisted: "Shut up."
:) Hope that helps.
I think I've worked out where it's coming from... they're going to crank up the power on that big old printing machine & make it! Easy peasy!
A grand from every adult in Britain - it's a huge amount of money. It's a sorry state of affairs when the Tories are getting Labour to promise to control fat-cat city pay. Come on now Mr Cameron, whatever happened to a Free Market Economy?!?!
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)
I find just as alarming that our local council's who can hardly afford to pay for anything in our communities have millions invested in Icelandic banks!!!!!!!!!! Why????? Whose getting fat on this little scandal? Not us Council Tax payer's that's for sure.
Sinbad
from the US Treasury website
How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?
Make your check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it is a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:
Attn Dept G
Bureau Of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
;D ;D ;D ;D
who knows maybe the society of greed started by Thatcher and her mob may result in a backlash.
That program the other night about hedge fund investors and how they will actually benefit from all the bad stuff thats happening now was repulsive.
I would be very interested to see a breakdown of the colour of the local authorities that lost money in the long term high interest Icelandic bank accounts. I have searched the web and not been able to find such a breakdown so if anybody knows of anything, could they link me to it please.
I only know about my own borough which is coloured blue and invested £20 million.
Redclanger, the BBC must have the info you need - there was a sort of list on the 10 o clock news just now. The list was scrolled down very quickly, but I haven't actually searched on the web.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7660741.stm
Here is the link and it is frightening reading.
Phew. What with savings in B&B, car insurance with Fortis it's a relief :-\ :-\ :-\
LOCAL authorities across the UK were yesterday stunned to discover that Iceland is nothing more than a volcano surrounded by two million haddock.
As the volcano's banks refused to pay out, councils said they were convinced Iceland was a small, landlocked country next to Belgium with a long history of expert financial management.
But after 15 minutes on the internet they confirmed it was nothing more than a slab of stinking lava populated by a handful of wilfully eccentric musicians and half a dozen heavily bearded trawler captains.
Julian Cook, director of finance at the Local Government Association, said: "I meant Luxembourg - nuts!
"I suppose the haddock-shaped piece of lava with every new account was probably a clue."
Mr Cook is now demanding £1bn of taxpayers' money in compensation for losing £1bn of taxpayers' money.
He added: "When the taxpayer is exposed in this way it is only right that central government should step in with its own funds, wherever they come from."
But the Treasury has so far refused, criticising the councils for investing huge amounts of public money in badly run banks.
Once again, happy to help. ;)
Quote from: redclanger on October 09, 2008, 18:33:36
I would be very interested to see a breakdown of the colour of the local authorities that lost money in the long term high interest Icelandic bank accounts. I have searched the web and not been able to find such a breakdown so if anybody knows of anything, could they link me to it please.
RC, I haven't found a list but Wiltshire is blue.
We had some money to invest in June and were tempted momentarily with the Iceland banks who were offering a higher rate of interest. We discounted them as we wanted to invest in this country and were uncertain about the stability of Icelandic banks. If all the money invested by the local councils had been put into British banks/building societies, they may not have been in such dire straits.
Yes i too toyed with putting some money in Icesave but decided against i as I wasn't sure how secure it would be. On the other hand I've got money in HBOS and RBS so what do I know!!?? ::) ::)
Never thought I'd be glad to have no savings and no pension to speak of- at least I don't need to worry about losing them! My only investments are in bricks and mortar (not that they are looking great at the moment bu hopefully in the long term..)
Those councils where only doing as they were told. That was invest your unspent as yet money in something safe that gives the best interest. Exactly the same as me or you. You would be very annoyed if you had found out that the council had kept it under their mattress.
The money is not spare money, it is the lump allowed from government to spend on projects, some of which have still to be done. Good job this did not happen in April when the councils get their funds from government. The whole lot would have been in there.
The stock market is too much like gambling on a horse, so high interest is the best bet. No one could have seen this coming apart from the spivs who made it happen.
I have no sympathy for individuals who went to Iceland, as I believe it was tax free interest. So if you want to tax dodge, don't expect the rest of us to bale you out.
I can't answer for others, Ace, but the savings accounts I looked at were certainly not tax-free, however the interest rate they were offering was high enough to ensure that even after tax and inflation there was a small element of growth. As I say, I didn't go for it, but I can certainly understand why others would.
In the case of the councils who have expensive financial advisers, I think it was a risk too far with other people's money. If they didn't know better their advisers should have. Of course if it had come off they'd have made a tidy sum, but I think public funds have to be managed on the conservative side.
grawrc,
Fully agree there. But could anyone have foreseen this horrendous freefall in the World's economy?
Like many others, I have investments(unfortunately some shares - but I ain't panic selling).
If people/authorities/councils whatever just calm down, in time, things will adjust. O.K. it's gonna take 10 yrs. but we'll all be back on the greedy ladder once again!!!
:P :P :-[ :-X :-X
Me too Tel. Peter's lump sum from when he retired and the money my mother left us is invested in various funds on the stock exchange and has been sitting there growing to pay out an income when I retire or fund any major capital expenditure we might have in the future. I reckon it's halved in value over the last few months. :'( :'( But it's a catch 22 situation. if I take it out now what it's lost has gone forever. if I don't and the markets plummet I lose the lot. But historically the markets have fallen and then grown. On the other hand unlike the councils I don't have a bunch of IFAs - just the 1. I think there are loads of folk in that situation. The only comfort - if it is a comfort - is that if the crash comes it will be world wide and there would need to be worldwide measures to address it. I just wish investors and savers would sit tight and give the banks a chance to react to the various initiatives governments have put in place internationally.
Hazel Blears was not the news at lunchtime. Normally I switch the radio off when The Robot comes on, so I wasn't really listening. Did she say - there'd be lots of checks on tax payers' money given to the banks, or was it there'd be lots of cheques of tax payers' money given to the banks??
Probably just me nit-picking.
Our club committee decided at the previous meeting that as we had got a large sum in the accounts we should be investing some in a higher interest account. The treasurer made enquiries and was told that we are not allowed by law to do so. Just at this point our head office suggested that we should loan any spare cash to them (it's theirs anyway if the branch ceases to exist) as they can get a better interest rate. We authorised the treasurer to loan them £3,000.
So the PM has sorted it. I will believe it when I see it. No big paydays for the bank boss's. I wonder how many will jump through the golden handshake loophole and leave their jobs, now they have taken away the trough.
Where will the government get the money?
Please sir, I know, I know!
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00390/LOTTO-LOGO-280_390663a.jpg)
After all it is only a numbers game run by the mafia, (cos Virgin didn't do any cashback) They are the experts in loan sharking.
never understood why we had Her Majesty's Government, but a National Debt ???
Quote from: Rhubarb Thrasher on October 13, 2008, 14:43:56
never understood why we had Her Majesty's Government, but a National Debt ???
Look up fractional reserve lending, it's the way that all the banks work. Including the Bank of England.
Quote from: RobinOfTheHood on October 13, 2008, 21:16:22
Quote from: Rhubarb Thrasher on October 13, 2008, 14:43:56
never understood why we had Her Majesty's Government, but a National Debt ???
Look up fractional reserve lending, it's the way that all the banks work. Including the Bank of England.
OK ROTH I will, so long as you promise to look up "Joke" :D
Isn't it like windsor castle? All those years we were paying to get in. then it burns down and suddenly we discover we own it.
joke (jk)
n.
1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
2. A mischievous trick; a prank.
3. An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
4. Informal
a. Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
b. An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.
v. joked, jok·ing, jokes
v.intr.
1. To tell or play jokes; jest.
2. To speak in fun; be facetious.
v.tr.
To make fun of; tease.
OK, your turn. ;D
Quote from: grawrc on October 11, 2008, 14:53:49
I can't answer for others, Ace, but the savings accounts I looked at were certainly not tax-free, however the interest rate they were offering was high enough to ensure that even after tax and inflation there was a small element of growth.
That's the same as the account our savings are in, Grawrc. I'm just happy that our money is safe. Of course I'll be happier when it's safe having been moved to a different bank, lol. We've got our savings split between two different banks - for this very reason - but who knows these days who's going to go belly up overnight?!
QuoteWe've got our savings split between two different banks
Please, what are savings?
Savings are the hypothetical sums you gain from shopping at the sales.
;D
Quote from: Amazin on October 16, 2008, 00:16:31
Savings are the hypothetical sums you gain from shopping at the sales.
;D
and spend on seeds ;D