Hello all another new member here looking for your advice. I've had a great season in a new greenhouse with tomatoes starting to come on full flow. I have produced Gardeners Delight, San Marzano and Brandywine all starting to ripen up. What I interested in is extending the season maybe with heat and light. Any opinions. As you can see from the members map I'm way up north opposite the Isle of Skye so night can be short but surprisingly little frost. Thanks to all
Welcome Graham.
Are your tomatoes growing outside? At the end of the season, you may have to ripen the last green ones inside on the truss, they will ripen but not get sweeter.
Hi Ina, No given where we are, northwest Scotland, there all in a greenhouse growing in open borders. There is no chance that we could grow toms outdoors here. I don't think we would even get flowers never mind fruit!
Yes - light & warmth would do it - at a great cost. I use lights, alone, to bring on seedlings, & it costs me about 5p per lettuce to get them to planting out time. But it's fun. = Tim
Ah, that's how I grow mine in Holland.
Not that it will do you any good now and I'm by no means a very experienced tomato grower, but I would think that extending the growing season may have to take place in the beginning, not the end of the season.
The trick is to start your tomatoes real early in your house, best with a grow light to keep them from getting too leggy. Replant them several times deeper by taking off the bottom leaves and burry them up to the top few leaves. You end up with a plant with a lot of roots that grew out of the stem. When the soil in the greenhouse has warmed a bit, maybe add horse manure to help with warmth, you plant them............. not deep because the soil down there is still cold but at an angle with only the top few leaves out of the soil. This way the plant will grow faster because the top of the soil is much warmer than deep down. We had ripe tomatoes much earlier than anyone else at our allotment complex and thus having a longer growing season.
For now, I think, you have to do anything you can to keep warmth in your greenhouse. How? Your guess is as good as mine.
Good luck.
Thanks both of you. Thats very interesting. I was thinking of trying to bring on some young plants now and using heat and light to grow themmaybe until late October, but your point of starting earlier with a succession of plants is well taken - thanks. Tim -do you keep planting right through the winter in a frost free environment.
1. Winter? No way!!
2. Light till October? The cost would make supermarket toms seem like a gift?
3. For the lights you might need, see growthtechnology. = Tim
Ok Tim - Got the message - thanks Graham
Im very interested in growing under lights, I managed to perk up some very sick aloes with them that I rescued from a bonfire when I was in Spain.
That was just a cheap light but I was considering looking at getting something like a 400 watt metal halide light and growing lettuce, cucumber and tomatos during winter. Surely the cost of the light would only be the same cost as buying the veg in the supermarket during winter... and you have the benefit of it being home grown. Or am I way off the mark?
Yeah my thoughts too - personally the point is the quality of the produce not necessarily the cost - within reason. Like you I would like to try a range of vegetables just to see what the result would be although I do realise that growing under lights is a very specialist business whic seems to be mostly combined with hydroponics, as far as I can see. Do plan an experiment this year?
Hi Graham
Ah someone who thinks on the same lines as me! I dont mind if the cost of the light plus power is slightly more than supermarket, its the taste and pleasure of growing my own that im interested in.
You mention hydroponics, well I've actually grown my veg in hydroponics this year. I cannot compare with soil grown as this is my first year as a gardener (I just like technical stuff!) Its been pretty amazing to pull carrots from a box on a table, no bending, no digging etc (also no carrot fly as the boxes are high up). Also i've not had to worry about my toms drooping, I set them up in a wick system so just add my solution to the bottom of the pot about once a week, how lazy is that!
I am trying to buy a cheap light at the moment to try an experiment in the greenhouse over winter, if you are doing this too i'd be very interested in hearing how you get on.
You could try layering them ! This is done with Sweet peas, if you carefully remove the stem of the tom from the support (string or cane) lay it down on the ground then allow it to grow up a second support from about 6 inches, along the original stem there may be bundles of "nodules", these are embryonic auxiliary root systems, cover these with soil and they should grow and provide extra nutrition. As the new plant extension grows up, tie in as normal. The second plant can be allowed to grow up the support vacated by the first plant and on and on and on, hope this helps. Let us know if you give it a bash and let us know the results! Cheers, Tony.
Might I suggest that a 'cheap' light may give a cheap result. But the minimal light produced could cost more per watt than the 'better' lights. My little 'Whitefire' cost me some £90. Long term, that's not too bad but, in my lifetime, it's a luxury! = Tim
Leonie - well there you go! I've just complete a 2 year 'experiment' with a small hydroponic unit too! I've had two sweet pepper and two chilli plants going for two year - interestingly the plants produced mush more fruits in the secon year than in the first, although admittedly I have had them in the new greenhouse since May, both on a wick system. The problem for me was the use of synthetic fertilizers but recently there is a range of organic feeds which seem to be doing quite well. I have been thinking of expanding to a fell hydroponic unit with lights etc. Tim I think your right about lights - I do belive that the more you pay the better - al least according to the catalogues. Layering well I'm nippiping out to the house now to give it a go! Yes Leonie I would be interested in aa joint trial to see how we get on.
How interesting that you chose the wick method too. I have a 12 trough system that I bought but found my own setup with two black buckets, perlite and some capillary matting works just as well!
I was thinking more on the lines of starting early, ie starting my seeds now and possibly eating my own toms etc when the daffs are just out?
What did you grow? My carrot boxes werent wick systems, just big boxes with a tap drilled into them, tip the solution in the top and catch it at the bottom! Did you find your hydro stuff tasted any different from soil grown? Sorry for so many questions but I thought I was the only hydro bod on here! :)
Hi Leonie
So Far I've only grown sweet peppers, lettuce chilli's and basil, the only problem I've had was that some of the chilli's weren't hot then suddenly they got mega hot - other than that everything was just great. Keeping the ppers and chilli's over for a second year was interesting, as you know normally we would treat them as annuals but in 'real life' they are perennials. Bob Flowerdew - my guru - made the point on a gardening programme recently. I got a lot more the second year although that was probably because I kept them in the greenhouse as opposed to the top of the stairs where the light was weak. The best catalogue I've seen for complete systems is Esoteric Hydroponics who even include a cd-rom with a video on how to build and use a system - there a bit dear but maybe it's a one off 'investment' were seriously considering going for it. At least we could go on holday for a week or so and let them get on with it. There address is http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/. Have you had any problems with your system and where do you keep it? Maybe we should start a new thread on 'Newbie Hydroponics?'
Hi Graham
Yes a thread on newbie hydroponics is a great idea! I dont know whether to post here now or not??
I have the trough system on here http://www.thehydroponicum.com/acatalog/Hydroponicum_Wick_System_Kits.html its £125 but I was lucky enough to get it second hand and hardly used! Its great really, just fill it up and leave it alone for a week or so! Have a look around that website, theres a forum on there, small at the moment but growing!
I had a very poorly sited greenhouse that I set the troughs up in, however they didnt get off to a good start and I wasnt sure whether this was due to it being hydroponic or no light, so I took out a few plants and put them under a glass construction I made in the direct sun (hubby said I was turning the garden into a scrap heap) and they thrived!
Everything just seems so much 'cleaner' with hydroponics. Theres no soil diseases and less chance of lettuces etc being munched. Actually I found myself spending time in the greenhouse just looking at the plants as there wasnt really much else to do!! Water once a week, no weeding etc etc!
The Hydroponium of the website is about 80 miles north of here at Achhiltibuie - were in Glenelg by the Isle of Skye. It's very impressive - they grow a huge range of flowers and vegetables in a sort of plastic 'glasshouse' in fiact I got my unit there the baby version of yours. Lets take the plunge and see whose interested and maybe can give is some advice. As I said my concern was the totally synthetic nature of the feeds but there are some very good organic mixtures now - I even put some of my liquid tomato in the trough - stank to high heaven but the plants loved it.
See you on the new thread!
Hi Graham
Oh dear I didnt see your new thread and posted another one, sorry. :(
What a small world it is, with us both having a similar system. I did very well getting my second hand for £30 and that included about 8 liters of solution! I would love to visit the hydroponicum but its just too far away from me in the midlands. I have heard its fascinating to go round!
Are you saying that you grew your plants originally at the top of the stairs then? and was it the 'proper' time to start seeds or were you trying to cheat the seasons with your lights?
Have a look here http://www.get4.me.uk/index.htm His lettuce pictures are pretty impressive, thats a lot of growth for three weeks!
Hi Leonie
Sorry for the delay in getting back but I forgot to click the 'notification, box DOH!!!. I saw you started a thread too no problem - I was still smarting from my telling off from Tim! Yes the Hydroponics Centre is fasinating they grow everything from soft fruit to bananas very successfuly,l and all the produce is used in the Michelin star restaurant next door - so I think that answers the critics on the taste front. I'm probably going up there next week for a family outing I could get you some 'bumf' and post it on if you think you would find it useful?
As far as the top of the landing is concerned. I planted the system and placed it under a velux window we had which faces south but interestingly there wasn't enough light, although the plants did well enough they never produced the weight of crop they did when I moved them to the greenhouse. Maybe we should lobby for a new 'Greenhouse" section of the forum but as a newbie here I don't weant to step on any toes - there seems to be some very sensitive ones.
Yes a greenhouse section would probably be a good idea! But im new too so im not into the swing of it all properly yet, I have seen a few bits on greenhouses on the 'basics' section.
Graham one more question then sorry, did you use the velux and a grow light? Because if you did and didnt get great result then its probably not worth me splashing out on a good light, i'll just wait until the 'proper' growing season and use my (just being built) greenhouse.
In my dreams you see, i totter off into my greenhouse in march and pick a few toms and a cucumber and sit in the lovely metal halide 'sun' for a moment! ;) ;D
No Leonie - you misunderstand - I literally put the system on the top landing of the house - no lights no heat but near the top landing window! So you can understand why the results were not too great - although I did grow peppers and chillis, so go ahead with your 'light' plans. Like you I would like to pop out and pick some veg in the depth of winter but if we don't try it won't happen! I must confess to having a very posh new greenhouse with two 'rooms' and lots of space and I'm still going through the honeymoon period. I never grown on a greenhouse before but the results are pretty spectacular considering where we are. Three types of tomatoes, with lots of fruit, aubergine, cucumbers, we've already picked around 15 large fruit, peppers, chillies, basil beans the works - we'vve even put in some sweetcorn and root ginger all just bursting out of the ground - as you can hear I can become a bit of a bore about the whole thing. I just want to keep it coming for as long as I can - the most surprising thing has been how the greenhouse has given us a choice of vegetable for a meal - less of a glut more a cornucopia - w'ere vegetarians so were pretty easily impressed. You'll love the 'house' when it comes so go for it - oops I hear Bob Flowerdew in the background - speak soon.
Graham - you must be very young to smart so easily? If you mean my suggesting an alternative site for hardware,
it was not a 'telling off' - merely a option that might help keep things in logical places. Probably up the pole at that.
In passing, I have brought on lettuce in the kitchen in the winter with just Grolux lights.
My apology. = Tim
Hi Tim Nil Problemo - as a matter of fact I have a daughter of 29 so I'm not that young! I think I'm going to commit to the lights so we'll see how it goes
Ahhh but which light Graham, MH or HPS, I hope you've done your homework! ;)
You see Leonie - this is how you get sucked into all this. As I speak (type) I've a copy of Esoteric Hydroponics's catalogue by my side and am toally bewildered by the choice although I did note that you have to change a Halide lamp every year because it can get"volatile'! Now what does that mean - does it explode? It all started with tring to get tomatoes in the winter and I've ended up with WMD!
Ha ha and im sat here trawling google looking for instances of people growing toms in there 'lighted greenhouses'! If I find any good sites I shall post.
Well from what I can gather re throwing away metal halides after a year, its because the coating burns away and makes the light produce too much heat and not enough light, so it will be costing a lot of money to fuel a light thats not bright enough but will be burning the little plants leaves off!
Another thing to consider, although a metal halide thats original purpose is to light a football field lets say, will make the plants grow, it wont contain enough light from the red spectrum to take the plant through to flowering, but the newer horticultural lights have extra red light added so are better for the all round job.
Apparently its not a good idea to just use sodium either as these dont contain enough blue light and may make the plants 'leggy'
Oh well, thats two lights I need to save up for now!!
Basically I think the problem is this - If I wanted to grow cannabis I could email a hydropoic supplier and they would sell me the lot, lights, heat hydroponic units for around £800.00, I could buy seeds on the internet - freely available and be off and running in a fornight, the investment would be recouped in six months and running towards profit. The catch is, I only want to grown some tomatoes and cucumbers nothing complex, nothing illegal, no hassle but I've got to wade through pages of techno -babble when all I want is to swith on a light and pick an occassional pepper - o well the best laid plans etc
Well as you have already got your greenhouse, mine is just in the 'being built' stage, you should build a website and take loads of pictures of your experiment. Then i'll come along and copy you!
My greenhouse should be built within the month, hubby is just waiting for the treated timber to arrive... I cant wait and then i'll be sharing your excitement. ;D
Be careful here Leonie - I have pictures from the foundations to the fruit - you could open the floodgates - imaging other peopleds holoday snaps but about foundations!. Maybe I'll set up i'll put them on line and you can take yoiur pick, but I would be happy to share experiences and have some joint projects
Well what are you waiting for, I know i'd love to see your pics at different growing stages and I bet you'd have lots of people on here keen to do the same.
Im not sure I would be any good to you in the sharing experience side though, im a total newbie! Until a couple of weeks ago i'd never even seen a pepper on a plant. I do have to admit though im feeling rather proud of myself as my salad veg is wonderful!
This year i had a tiny plastic greenhouse that was poorly sited but it was still brilliant to nip down there and wonder at the little toms growing. I wish i'd gotten into this years ago!
This is an environlite.. beauty of this is lots of lumens for less wattage and becus it is flourescent based you can hang in a few inches away from you Tomato plants ;) ;) ;)... really is worth the consideration, hope this helps?
oh heres a link
http://www.basementlighting.com/Merchant2/4.13/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=EL1&Category_Code=GL
almost forgot that.... tsk tsk
Ozzy
:-* :-*
Hi Ozzy
Looks like just the job - I especially like the bit about 'growing in cupboards' very handy for tomatoes on the website. The nocturnal tomato growers best friend
Well its too late for me Ozzy, I just bid on a big 400w HID.... im hanging with the big boys! :o ;D
Oh wait does that mean you had massive bills when you had the HID's??
Wait Leonie - what do you mean 'I've just bid.....' are we talking ebay here? I think you've caught the bug.....OMG what next!!!!
Looks neat, Ozzy.
One reason I like my 'Whitefire' is that, with 2 separate 20" 55W double lamps, you can light a long line of plants or a wide rectangle. But it does have a separate, quite large ballast. = Tim
Graham, yes im winning on ebay!! I sat for ages, then put a bid in but it wasnt enough so i increased it and now im the highest bidder, I kinda danced around for a while...... and thats without anything that may grow in cupboards roflmao! ;D
Awwww god its too late to tell me now Ozzy, I may win the auction!! I've stopped doing my 'ebay' dance and im panicking!
One minute yer up and then yer down, gardening eh! ;D 8)
Good to get 'bargains' - and exciting!
But - who will give you free advice afterwards, and where do you get replacement lamps every year or so?? = Tim
Quote from: tim on August 24, 2004, 18:47:21
Good to get 'bargains' - and exciting!
But - who will give you free advice afterwards, and where do you get replacement lamps every year or so?? = Tim
Dunno (Leonie shuffles her feet, wishing she'd thought ahead) :-\ ::)