I don't really know how I feel about this to be honest but I do know that I was distressed at the time.
Last week whilst we were in Scotland we visited the Argaty Red Kite site which was fantastic. After spending hours in the hide watching them all, OH and I decided to follow one of the nature trails up across the fields and into the forest. At the top of the hill, there was a cage made from what looked like chicken wire. Cage measured about 7-8ft high and 3ft wide. Inside the cage were three magpies, all flapping like crazy and throwing themselves from side to side (and I mean really throwing themselves) quite obviously in a very distressed state. We walked up a bit closer but the cage was sectioned off with barbed wire fencing. I acted rather girly and asked my OH if we could free them to which he replied a stern, NO! I wandered off further to peer into the woods but when I turned back my OH had climbed the barbed wire fence and was taking pictures inside the cage (at the time I was thinking it must be for the RSPB/RSPCA) and then he opened the doors and freed the birds. I was very proud of him and asked him what prompted such an action, to which he replied, 'the cage had a wire funnel coming in from the top so once the birds fell in, they couldn't get back out. There's the remains of a pheasant on the ground which had obviously been tied up in two places and it just didn't seem right to me' He said quite a bit more but along the same lines. All of a sudden a farm tractor comes roaring up the hill so we legged it ( :-[ :-[ ;D) We discussed on our walk what the reasoning must be behind the trap and in the end decided it obviously had something to do with feeding the birds of prey but also thought that birds of prey are quite capable of feeding themselves.
Once we'd finished the trail, we walked back down the hill and was stopped by the farmer who asked us several round and about questions (he obviously knew it was us) but we didn't give ourselves away. In the end he just came out with it, 'I had three magpies trapped in a cage up on the hill and now they're gone' to which my OH replied, 'Yes, that was me' and I said, 'I'm really sorry, we thought they'd trapped themselves and we just wanted to free them' He wasn't overly angry, more frustrated and explained to us that Scotland is doing a buzzard count and that he traps the magpies to entice the buzzards in to eat them, thus catching the buzzards for tagging.
Was just a bit upsetting really. The poor magpies were like sitting ducks (ok, magpies) and OH said they looked as if they'd been in there a good while too. I understand what the farmer's saying, don't get me wrong, but very upsetting all the same.
I was going to post OH's pictures but they're not very nice so I don't think I will. Sorry for the rant! No smart comments re magpies either, thank you! :)
hmm! it sounds a bit suspect to me I've never heard of ringers using other birds to catch other birds for ringing and certainly if they did i would like to think they would try and ensure the birds being used weren't unduly distressed. i wonder if he is poaching, but if it was on a designated nature trail it might be legal what he is doing. maybe someone on here knows better. but to settle your mind and curiosity why don't you write the rspb an email and attach your photos as further evidence and they would be sure to respond I'm sure.
Hi SamLouise - I also find these traps horrid. They, I think, are called Larsen traps - they are designed specifically for magpies. They will have been set by farmers/gamekeepers to keep the magpies from the birds bred for shooting!
Unfortunately the more flapping that they do attracts more magpies to the traps. It was pretty unlikely that any of the magpies would have been released at all - I would think that was a load of bunkum spouted by the farmer who was probably too embarrased to tell you that they would all be killed. Buzzards can be counted by watching them on the thermals in the sky not trying to catch magpies!
Having said that we have far too many magpies in my area and a few less would be appreciated. But I don't approve of traps, poisoning (which they also do) and keeping them for a while. Shooting them to me is quick and final!
Old Bird
:(
too many magpies too many foxes, too many badgers, too many fill in the gap, too many , too many I know too many humans and that's a fact >:(. OK off the soap box now :D.
here is a link found explaining the Larsen trap
http://www.againstcorvidtraps.co.uk/larsen_traps.html (http://www.againstcorvidtraps.co.uk/larsen_traps.html)
Humans sometimes really make me sick, i can't think of any reason we do the cruel things we do as a species it is truly beyond me :-[ :'(.
Buzzards wouldn't normally kill magpies, though they might if they were caged up with them. I think that bit of it was bunkum.
Magpies steal grouse and pheasent eggs along with other's. It's been going on since birds learnt to fly and the bird population has coped quite well with this natural annual event.
The 'farmer' is catching magpies (and possibly crows which do the same thing) to up the game bird population in his sector. It's to do with money. More targets for guns means more in the 'farmer's' pocket!
Well done to SamL's OH...!
PS: Setting such bird traps is illegal as they don't discriminate. A common practice not so long ago was to hang a crow by the neck on a minature gallows in a field to keep other crows away. It worked but it's not a method used where you would be likely to see it these days.
thats barbaric and anyone that claimed to care enough to want to be able to count the birds of prey surely would never do such a thing, nature sorts out its own usually. good on you guys for setting them free
so sad :'(
If a farmer wants to get rid of vermin and magpies can come under this heading then he applies for the appropriate licence to get rid of them, why did you not in the first place make enquiries about the trapped birds before you vandalised this farmers trap,
if he wanted to get rid of vermin then he could have killed them humanely not left them trapped to die of starvation or shock or whatever, after all he apparantly knew they were there
humans always quick to call an animal vermin when the way they live messes with our so call better than their lives, but last time i checked the state of the earth has nothing to do with how animals live and survive and very much with how we live, so who do you think is the vermin.
i agree with debster, if he has permission to do this then he should take his responsibility seriously and do it in the most human way possible.
and opening a door without breaking a lock can hardly be classed as vandalism.
Quote from: Mr Smith on September 18, 2008, 20:46:56
If a farmer wants to get rid of vermin and magpies can come under this heading then he applies for the appropriate licence to get rid of them, why did you not in the first place make enquiries about the trapped birds before you vandalised this farmers trap,
LOL @ you calling it vandalism when it was a simple case of unhooking the door latch, letting them fly out and hooking it back up again.
It was not your trap to mess about with in the first place how do you know what it was there for.
No, quite obviously it was not my trap to mess with, well spotted but since this trap did not meet the legal requirements that larsen traps are supposed to meet, my OH & I made it our business to do the right thing. The law states that adequate food, water, perches and shelter must be provided for trapped birds - none of these were provided so I guess the farmer couldn't have really cared less. We did. I'd do it again tomorrow if I came across the same thing. If the farmer doesn't want people to interfere in his dodgy goings on then he should abide by the rules, it's not rocket science.
I really cannot understand why people go to the Countryside and interfere with something they know absolutely nothing about. If you cannot accept the ways of the Country then why on earth do you bother to go there?
The farmer was trapping the Magpies because they can do an incredible amount of damage to small birds and ground nesting birds. They would have been humanely destroyed. Get your facts right, no one in their right mind will catch and kill a Magpie to feed to a Buzzard. If the farmer was doing it to protect the ground nesting birds then it was being done to protect the shooting. In parts of the UK shooting is a very important source of income. Income is important to allow the farmer and his family and the work men and their families to live.
I hope you are satisfied that you have interfered with the income of a community. How would you like it if someone wandered across your garden and removed or altered something they did not like but which you had put there for a specific purpose.
Quote from: Toadspawn on September 18, 2008, 22:52:08
Get your facts right, no one in their right mind will catch and kill a Magpie to feed to a Buzzard.
Hmmmm, let me see, how about you get your facts right because I didn't actually say that ..... the farmer did. Perhaps you could let him know?
I don't see how releasing three magpies will affect the income of a whole community. ::)
I dont agree with any traps but after seeing how evil magpies can be, I find it hard to feel sorry for them. I know they dont mean it but there are far too many of them.
The fact is magpies must be controlled or else we will suffer the consequences with all the rarer small birds having their nests raided etc etc.
Its all very well being all lovely and caring and saying its all the fault of humans in the first place but we're not allowed to cull humans. You must look at the bigger picture. Nature is cruel too.
So how should we deal with too many magpies????
Well SamLouise, if I had been there I would have done exactly what you did!!!! Wether that was vandalising, stealing or poking my nose into country affairs. I would release anything that was distressed.
Well done you two, you get my pat on the back.
XX Jeannine
nature isn't cruel nature is nature. and please do your research even the RSPB has done extensive research re magpie numbers affecting songbirds numbers and it was found that it didnot make a significant difference to warrent culling. it was found that it was the removal and destruction of said sound birds habitat was the real major effect to the reduction and slow increase of their numbers. what has happened is that us humans have mucked up the natural world so much that the stronger of most species will sometimes survive if they can adapt to this new altered environment all be it an uneven playing Field. what we need to do is not always look for the easy short term solution of simply culling but redress the balance by recreating the very habitats we have messed up to give the more vulnerable species an opportunity to build their populations.
and in case anyone thinks i'm just making it up here is alink to the RSPB findings.http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/magpies/songbirds.asp (http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/magpies/songbirds.asp)
Magpies like living amongst people as do all the crow family, as long as we have rubbish heaps and garbage lying around magpies will multiply big style. I've watched magpies raiding nests and killing chicks, despite this link I find it hard to believe they make no difference.
Lets face it the RSPB are always going to paint a pretty picture of birds and aren't going to warrant culling under any circumstance.
I dont think anything will be done to improve songbirds habitat much as I'd like it too, there's no financial gain in it for our increasingly greedy human race. They'll talk about it and do nothing.
Although the point about habitat is well made, I've seen footage of magpies working their way along a hedge ( the habitat that is meant to protect songbirds) systematically taking eggs and fledglings. Why the RSPB ignore this is beyond me.
I should point out that Jays and even woodpeckers also raid nests, but in town especially as well as magpies, the main enemies are cats and squirrels.
Nesting boxes are pretty safe from magpies (given the right entrance hole size) but unless reasonably deep are vulnerable to woodpeckers
magpies, Jays, woodpeckers, crows, sparrowhawks, etc have always eaten songbirds as a small part of their diet (except the sparrowhawk that's pretty much all they do eat) and they always will, regardless of how we feel. wildlife is not here to protect us but we certainly have a duty to protect it and that includes aspects that might seem cruel, because it all adds up to a healthy and diverse environment. ethics need to be applied to the species that understand ethics IE us not at wildlife cause they only truly understand survival.
we really need to plough money into habitat reconstruction (yes i know the greedy powers that be won't want to do this) but us gardeners can at least on a smaller scale do the best that we individually can to help wildlife in our own patches (imagine if we all did, can you imagine the positive impact that would make), re songbird and small mammal predation can also be lessened by us pet owners being responsible by belling our felines or letting them out only during the day and not at sunset or dawn when these wildlife types are most active and so may be more at risk.
this link i think really explains things better than i ever could:
http://www.essexwt.org.uk/leaflets/magpies.htm (http://www.essexwt.org.uk/leaflets/magpies.htm)
and on a lighter note here is a magpie taking its life in its own hands/ should that be wings ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugwNOKdVcs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugwNOKdVcs)
i totally understand that there are times when interventions have to be made in order to protect certain species, but this can be done quickly and humanely not leaving birds or animals trapped for hours, days etc to die a slow painful death, and as the farmer very obviously knew that the birds were there why did he just leave them and not do something about it???
im not totally thick, i have lived for years in the countryside before moving to a city i just think its barbaric to leave something to suffer and totally unneccessary
Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.
S&L, and looking on page 35 of one of the national papers today I suppose that was just a simple case of unhooking a catch door on some cage that was housing Mink(well done you antis out there) which attacked a Swan, but you would not touch something that was not yours to touch would you,
Quote from: keef on September 19, 2008, 13:32:36
Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.
That's a load of rubbish. I lived in the country most of my life and have worked on scores of farms. Magpies and Crows will peck a lamb/sheeps eyes, yes. But only on a dead animal.
It's this sort of scare-mongering which originates from scant knowledge and 'house-wife tales that cause more damage than the feathered offender!! >:(
Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.
Quote from: kenkew on September 19, 2008, 20:48:23
Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.
Well said kenkew, exactly what I was trying to find the words to say.
Well ken, sorry to disagree. I'm currently sitting in a room with my Mother in Law who used to farm sheep, and she remembers live lambs getting their eyes pecked out...
I think it's disgusting that anyone thinks they have the right to show such a lack of respect for the owners of land going about their legal business. It's acts like this that make farmers afraid of townies walking across their land. The originator of this post has messed about with something that is none of her business & that she doesn't understand, and should be ashamed of herself...
Quote from: kenkew on September 19, 2008, 20:48:23
Quote from: keef on September 19, 2008, 13:32:36
Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.
That's a load of rubbish. I lived in the country most of my life and have worked on scores of farms. Magpies and Crows will peck a lamb/sheeps eyes, yes. But only on a dead animal.
It's this sort of scare-mongering which originates from scant knowledge and 'house-wife tales that cause more damage than the feathered offender!! >:(
Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.
A shepard on the local farm told me this...
Nobody should ever be ashamed of themselves for relieving the suffering of a living creature.
Yes if they peck the eyes of sheep it is disgusting but they are doing what their instincts tell them to do.
I would have released them without hesitation. >:(
Ollie can i ask a question seriously i gather it is legal to trap the birds but is it legal to leave them there to die like that or should they have been euthanised, i ask cos i genuinely do not know because it is apparant that he realised they were there
The only time I've ever seen trapping of magpies it went like this - it takes weeks to catch the first one, and then once you get that, all the others come along & you can catch one every few days. You then kill the first one (neck rung, quickly dispatched), and the new one is the "bait". It's not cruel - any more than keeping a budgie in a cage. You have to feed & water them while they're in there. Also, it is entirely discriminate - you have to check the trap at least once a day by law... or did a few years ago.
I can't see how this is cruel.
Ollie I think you know full well it is cruel and you are perhaps stirring the pot a little ::)
now done properly as you say i can understand it, nothing was said about feeding and watering and if they are checked daily, im not saying i agree with it but done properly for a proven need then i guess i can understand it, i dont work in the countryside and never have but i would prefer things to be done humanely and things like this not to happen
Quote from: betula on September 19, 2008, 21:26:32
Ollie I think you know full well it is cruel and you are perhaps stirring the pot a little ::)
Nope, not at all betula! It's nowhere near as crual as, say, the treatment of a battery hen.
Magpies are classified as a pest (Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981) and they can be culled to protect crops or livestock, wild birds or public health and safety. Ollie's right about trapping - the trap must be checked at least once every 24 hours and if a decoy bird is used, it has to be fed and watered. Doesn't sound like there was anything illegal going on.
That's really weird - there was a post from kenkew which I was replying to and now it's gone! Second thoughts, eh?
Years ago, a shepherd up near Loch Lomond spent a lot of time observing what happened to new-born lambs. People had been assuming that foxes killed them, but he found they were bieng killed by crows, which did indeed peck their eyes out. That's a much bigger bird though, and unless someone has some real evidence, I'm a bit sceptical about magpies doing it.
Quote from: OllieC on September 19, 2008, 21:22:40
The only time I've ever seen trapping of magpies it went like this - it takes weeks to catch the first one, and then once you get that, all the others come along & you can catch one every few days. You then kill the first one (neck rung, quickly dispatched), and the new one is the "bait". It's not cruel - any more than keeping a budgie in a cage. You have to feed & water them while they're in there. Also, it is entirely discriminate - you have to check the trap at least once a day by law... or did a few years ago.
I can't see how this is cruel.
Okay another townie here but I think that's cruel too. I'd never keep a budgie in a cage either.
G x
My daughter is a farmer and they have 18 cows and something like 200 sheep. I'll have a word with her ASAP and get the truth of the matter regarding the pecking of live lambs eyes.
Regarding the comparison of 'Cruelty to Magpies V's Battery hens'. Is cruelty really measured in the amount or type or comparison of suffering?
The capture cage the 'farmer had set up didn't seem to me to be a magpie only capture system and by the condition of the captured birds it certainly doesn't sound to be at all a legel set-up.
My B.I.Law dismantled many such 'coppies' he came across because they also capture not only birds of many species but animals too.
Had it been me, I would have taken the whole thing down and challenge him to prosocute me. (After having had a word with the RSPB and the RSPCA...! )
The traps don't have to be species-specific. Non-target species have to be released.
Quotesongbird and small mammal predation can also be lessened by us pet owners being responsible by belling our felines
Really? and are these bells put on only for the time the cats are outdoors? No, they're left on 24/7. Never in a million years would I bell any of my cats. It's unthinkable.
WHY DON`T SOME OF YOU POSTERS HERE GET REAL CRUELTY IS CRUELTY, WHICHEVER WAY YOU LOOK AT IT OR TRY TO PLAY IT DOWN .
THE BIRDS WERE BEING TREATED BADLY & WERE RELEASED & I SAY WELL DONE TO MY SON IN LAW, AT LEAST HE HAD THE GUTS TO DO IT.
IF THAT FARMER WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG HE WOULD HAVE CALLED THE LAW STRAIGHT AWAY.
These traps are set for catching Hooded Crows which go for the weakly lambs and peck their eyes out. There are no young lambs on the go just now so I guess the farmer was setting the traps for magpies if they were becoming a pest. The ground nesting birds have fledged their young so I guess he was aiming for the Buzzard. They are being tagged at the moment. Nasty things like this go on in the countryside, maybe it sounds barbaric and I for one wouldnt want to see it but really Magpies are a pest as well as hooded crows which are particularly nasty.
I think some of you are under the impression I'm some kind of city slicker who knows nothing about the country. You couldn't be more wrong. You don't know me, so don't try and make up your minds about my decisions :)
I'm not a flouncy woman who runs from cute thing to cute thing in the country squealing, "oooo, it's cute n fluffy, let it go ..... oooo, it's too sweet to be caged up, let it go ...."
What I saw was wrong. I don't care that any of you think what we did was wrong because in our minds it was right. You didn't see what we saw so you cannot judge. If a farmer has his reasons for trapping animals and it's detrimental (sp?) to his way of life, I have no problem with that, live and let live, we all do what we need to for survival. Those birds trapped in that cage had been there too long - longer than they should have been. I've also stated, more than once, that the cage itself had NONE of the legal requirements that the trap owners are supposed to abide by, including shelter, food, water and a perch! I'm supposed to abide by the law and let animal cruelty continue but they .... the trap setters .... don't have to? I don't think so! If they're going to do it, then they should be doing it the right and legal way or it's their hiccup at the end of the day.
And btw, I'm pretty sure that tying a pheasant down to two corners of the cage doesn't fall under the trap rules!
Samlouise...well done.
Fer feks sake when will people realise that nature is not designed for our own personal enjoyment? Or abuse. Magpies and other members of it's species take eggs and young birds. Yes it is distressing to see,yes it's distressing for the parent birds but it's life and you have to get to grips with that. But for humans, wildlife gets along pretty well on it's own. We are the biggest threat.
As for lambs...why should anyone care if a few get their eyes pecked out? Most of them end up on the table anyways and how many of you really care about how they got there?? Surely you can afford some wild critters taking their chances for a meal? Eyes might be their speciality..whats yours...roast leg with a few spuds?
My cats wear bells. 24/7 Big fecking bells anorl!It causes them no problems and lo! No bird deaths via their paws. Neighbour's terrier kills blackbirds four or five times a year. Oooh fancy that...dogs killing garden birds/frogs etc...no one admits to that do they.
Get real. It's dog eat bird out there.
Interesting thread. I'm a 'live and let live' bloke myself, but, i do understand that some of the ways of the countryside are not for the squeamish.
The only thing i dont understand is, why didn't the farmer just say "i'm trapping these magpies and any other pests that come along because they are attacking my game birds/ sheep"
If he is genuinely involved in the tagging of buzzards, that should be fairly easy to verify with the RSPB.
I do think that, regardless of the farmer's reasons, he should operate strictly within the law.
I beleive that, unfortunately there are still a minority of landowners and gamekeepers who think that they have the right to kill anything that moves on their land. I'm not for one minute saying that this man is one of them as he may well have been operating on behalf of the RSPB.
I'm no townie, and I never get sentimental over animals. But I don't like gratuitous unpleasantness or unnecessary culling. This sounds like a case of the latter. the law does allow for this type of trap, but if the farmer concerned wasn't following the law, that says it all.
He'd be very very foolish to break the law so close to a place of public access though, wouldn't he?
Seems like most of us have pretty strong views on this, and I don't like upsetting people, especially on here... so I'm shutting up. For once!
Well said Heldi, thank you.
Have a guess what I'm doing on Monday morning? no not signing on the dole that is for Thursday but off ferretting with mi mate, we will be out all day with nets making a few bob to put into Melton market on Tuesday, and tucked in mi jacket will be a little 410 for any thing else I fancy having a pop at :)
Yawn...............
Ok! Here's the low-down from 'The horse's mouth'.
A crow will attack a feeble new born lamb. If the mother sheep has had twins and one is weak and struggling crows will actually swoop down like vultures and attack the weaker lamb. The eyes are the easy target and it seems that's the point of attack. A healthy lamb is pretty much immune from this sort of attack due to it's capability to shake them off.
The mother sheep seems not to care about these attacks on a feeble new born.
Regarding Magpies. No evidence on that one, although they do have the equipment to do as much damage as a crow, there isn't evidence of them acting as 'bravely' as crows.
BORING TROLLEY SMITHY, YAAAAAWN............
That confirms what I thought, Kenkew.
Betula and Rosebud, you are both invited to come along for a day out thats if you know what being in the countryside and down an hedgerow is all about,
Mr Smith..it might surprise you to learn that I ran a farm BUT we operated in a very legal way and nobody set traps on my land. As for watching you in the ciountryside doing what you are talking about frankly toilet cleaning sounds more interesting. You would be teaching you Grandmother to suck eggs son.
As I said to the first poster, well done for releasing them, there are times when I feel it is right to follow a higher order than the law, this is one of those times. I would have done it in a minute, I probably would have taken the trap too, and if the farmer called the cops so be it..right is right to me. I couldn't care less.Calling the cops wouldn't frighten me if I was doing what I thought was right for the sake of something in distress.
ROSEBUD..well done
BETULA... well done
My own view is this. I am but one species put on this earth, and as luck will have it I happen to be human ,however I am not arrogant enough to think I should have the right to be cruel to something else in the name of human supremacy.
XX Jeannine
Quote from: Mr Smith on September 20, 2008, 18:19:31
Have a guess what I'm doing on Monday morning? no not signing on the dole that is for Thursday but off ferretting with mi mate, we will be out all day with nets making a few bob to put into Melton market on Tuesday, and tucked in mi jacket will be a little 410 for any thing else I fancy having a pop at :)
I don't have a problem with this. It's probably more honest than folk that eat the meat but can't cope with the slaughter etc, however your tone is a problem Mr Smith? You are trolling - deliberately setting out to upset people. I don't like that. I told you before I might press the ignore button for you. Now I am doing it.
Apart from that totally agree with Sam and Rosebud and Ollie and Betula and Jeannine and anyone else likeminded that i have missed. We don't have the right to muck about with nature. I watched the Matrix years ago and thought that's what we do and we oughtn't.
I'm on the brink of giving up milk and butter and cheese (which i love) because I find it intolerable that cows are kept in a lactating state endlessly and then butchered.I can actually cope with the meat thing better than this.
And crows are vermin that will eat dog poo (as are magpies) but they've got themselves where they are - in the evolutionary path - just like us. And we are often just as execrable.
Enough said.
I ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE COUNTRY TROLLY, I DON`T NEED YOUR NONSENSE & AGGRAVATION TO BE POINTED OUT JUST GO LOSE YOURSELF TROLLY. >:(
Quote from: Mr Smith on September 21, 2008, 18:19:55
Betula and Rosebud, you are both invited to come along for a day out that's if you know what being in the countryside and down an hedgerow is all about,
Thanks for the invite Mr Smith.However I live and work in the beautiful Warwickshire countryside. :-*
Hi there all you Moral high grounders,
to be honest I reckon if I walked past a trap and saw magpies trapped in it I'd find it hard not to release them, much as I hate magpies and would love to watch one getting killed and eaten by a hawk.
I know it is an absolute fact that crows take the eyes out young animals as my father in laws a farmer and he had a calf in that predicament last year but I dont think magpies would be able. However I have watched them hacking at baby birds in a nest with their horrible beaks (and yes I know this is 'nature' but I still dislike it).
At the end of the day I'm not too bothered about what happens to one or two of the the huge amount of magpies we have around now because magpies PECK AT MY VEG, and that is punishable by DEATH!!
Quote from: sawfish on September 22, 2008, 01:33:40
magpies PECK AT MY VEG, and that is punishable by DEATH!!
Do they? And there was me thinking they'd be eating the squirrels... Well, that's me put them back on the "please die a quick and natural death" list...
I've been thinking about this a bit more, and know I said I'd shut up but well, this is me...
Isn't there something a little bit neanderthal about enjoying killing animals? It may or may not be a necessity - and that is where this discussion started. But to go out doing killing at the weekend for fun, justified because it's natural & we've done it for ages (a bit like rape and child abuse, I suppose)? Does it make the hunter feel all big & strong? Or perhaps gives them a little taste of how god must feel?
A little ramble from me on a Monday morning... sorry if I've upset any sex offenders.
A bit weird perhaps.
So your saying thet a fisherman on the banks of a river is basically the same as Gary Glitter?
Chalk and cheese there. GG stirs up anger and emotion...I can't see either in sitting on a wet bank wasting my life staring at a cork bobbing up and down!
some people just dont get fishing. I love the tension and unpredictability, life isn't always about an end result.
Can't stand it when people have to reply in Capitals, big letters big mouth the Essex way.
Quote from: sawfish on September 22, 2008, 22:25:00
some people just dont get fishing. I love the tension and unpredictability, life isn't always about an end result.
I love fishing and therefore it's completely different (and also, they have a completely different concept of pain, as we all know!)!! I'm more referring to people who choose a gardening forum to post about the fun of killing animals.
Quote from: OllieC on September 23, 2008, 09:33:09
Quote from: sawfish on September 22, 2008, 22:25:00
some people just dont get fishing. I love the tension and unpredictability, life isn't always about an end result.
I love fishing and therefore it's completely different (and also, they have a completely different concept of pain, as we all know!)!! I'm more referring to people who choose a gardening forum to post about the fun of killing animals.
But this is the Wildlife sub-forum, Ol :-[ - if only gardening matters should be posted over all the sections here, then Sam's OP would be out of order too? :-\
Quote from: Mr Smith on September 23, 2008, 07:01:57
Can't stand it when people have to reply in Capitals, big letters big mouth the Essex way.
I think you used a capital at the start of "Captials" when you did'nt need to.
Quote from: Hyacinth on September 23, 2008, 09:49:50
Quote from: OllieC on September 23, 2008, 09:33:09
Quote from: sawfish on September 22, 2008, 22:25:00
some people just dont get fishing. I love the tension and unpredictability, life isn't always about an end result.
I love fishing and therefore it's completely different (and also, they have a completely different concept of pain, as we all know!)!! I'm more referring to people who choose a gardening forum to post about the fun of killing animals.
But this is the Wildlife sub-forum, Ol :-[ - if only gardening matters should be posted over all the sections here, then Sam's OP would be out of order too? :-\
Nooo, I mean that posting about killing wildlife & how much fun it is might perhaps be more suited to a hunting forum... I wouldn't have much to add if we stuck to just gardening!
And the other thing I was saying about appealing to the inner neanderthal, is just that I think sometimes our morals haven't caught up with our abilities... Society has very strong views on the morality of some things, whilst others are "each to their own". More an observation than anything else! Personally I don't mind if someone goes shooting for fun, but I wouldn't enjoy it myself.
What's difference between trapping and killing Magpies and say trapping and killing a mouse, drowning slugs & snails in beer or squashing caterpillars,all not a nice ways to go....are they, but all a necessity in protecting your crops or income.
Good point, we all like birds and it is a shame to see them trapped and I hate cruelty to people or animals but do admit that I stamp on flying ants, hate rats and snakes. Birds are OK but don't like it when they arrive in a gang and strip the fruit off my fig tree. Getting slightly away from the subject saw a flock of green birds, paraqueets, someone said, at the allotment eating the sunflower seeds. I didn't think they were wild birds. They looked lovely, anyone else seen them. We also have a ringed pigeon on the allotment that doesn't seem to want to fly home, he eats the chicken food and seems to have moved in to their outside pen, although they do chase him away. Perhaps he is just having a rest as he got lost and is building up his strength to fly home.
We see flocks green parakeets the whole time in SW London. Fun, but they're noisy blighters and, I gather, rather territorial.
Quote from: thifasmom on September 18, 2008, 21:11:49
and opening a door without breaking a lock can hardly be classed as vandalism.[/color]
Well it is on my allotment :o
"We see flocks green parakeets the whole time in SW London."
They're also voracious feeders. We have them on our site. I've been watching them the last couple of weeks on the horse chestnut trees at the back of my plot. They swoop in just before dusk and gorge themselves on the conkers. Have had a lot more damage on fruit trees this year from them. There was talk of an official cull last year, don't know if it happened.
Borlotti (I am a bit of thread) if you are able to catch the ringed pigeon there will probably be a phone number on the underneath of a wing. I am sure there is a pigeon fancier who will be glad to know what happened to his bird (I did lose quite a few when we raced pigeons). It may well be that after a good rest and feed it will fly home.
Quote from: lorna on September 23, 2008, 19:28:57
Borlotti (I am a bit of thread) if you are able to catch the ringed pigeon there will probably be a phone number on the underneath of a wing. I am sure there is a pigeon fancier who will be glad to know what happened to his bird (I did lose quite a few when we raced pigeons). It may well be that after a good rest and feed it will fly home.
We used to get quite a few on Hayling Island - they would see our local rough n' ready pigeons & decide to settle down with them. The grateful owners would always send an Amtrak courier to collect them... I could never figure out why they wanted a pigeon that got lost!!!
Olliec To give them a second chance :). As we owned a haulage company we used one of our small vehicles to train pigeons for the club members. We once released some 200 pigeons on a training trip and only about 50 got home. All sorts of things can happen. Never did find out what happened to them
Pigeons tend to give up through bad weather when they get tired but will stay around if they have a source of food, if you do manage to find a phone number stamped on his wing and you do phone up the fancier in some cases he might tell you to pull it's neck unless it is a pigeon from a really good blood line,
We did try to catch it with a net but it flew off into the high trees, then came back later. It seemed OK perhaps just needed a rest or liked the allotment better than its home. Don't want to send it back if it is going to get its neck rung. Anyhow the chicken man (at the allotment who knows about birds) will monitor the situation and if he manages to catch it will certainly ring the owner and either send it back or let it take it chances on the allotment. It didn't seem to be injured but just having a good holiday and enjoying life.
Theres probably a shed on your allotment site that reminds it of home,you are going to have to be cruel to be kind and chase it off and force it to find home.
I must agree with the comments AGAINST Magpies.
They are a destructive species & in my experience, are on the increase.
I have had desecration of songbirds' nests & find Lawson traps to be effective in trapping
& eventual disposal.
I wish I could afford one & have the ability to trap the first 'bast**d'!
Pigeons are pretty destructive in other ways. (and carry diseases too. )
Magpies are a wonderful bird to see, but yes! They are killers of what we see as beautiful.
Sort of raises the question...which is the baddest bird?
Wel in my opinion I think the Sparrowhawk is top for being a main killer of songbirds followed by the Magpie eating the young and eggs. The Woodpigeon is a pest for eating crops. The Hooded Crow is evil around lambing time also the Sea Eagle seems to take quite a few lambs as well as Golden Eagles. However, the biggest killer of all wildlife is not a bird, its the CAT.
We all know who the worst, biggest, badass killer is... And we're all one of 'em!!
True Ollie, true Carol,
I'm off to bed!
Quote from: telboy on September 27, 2008, 21:23:59
True Ollie, true Carol,
I'm off to bed!
A4A love-in?
budge(ie) over Telboy and be afraid....be v.v.v. afraid...
:o ;D
Yeah, feeling all loved up, tel?!?!
For you with some imagination, create a story?.....
Weeks and weeks ago I was part of a ground-clearing exercise in the grounds of part of a stately Home that was being sold off in lots....ANYWAY a task-force of us turned up to do a slash-and-burn of the overgr0wn outside.....amongst the debris (BEFORE we started the bonfire, right?) someone found a flight feather of a pigeon with a tel. no. on it....no carcase, nothing, just this one feather and a number.....
ahhhh.....