Currently in the news and a question for all of us to think seriously about.
The current set-up is that we donate organs by stating so via a card or written wishes. No such permission means no donation or a consultation with family members at a very emotional time.
Most people are in favour of donation but have yet to get round to organising a donation card or leaving that preference with family.
As someone who has been in the position of having to make that decision for a deceased family member, I would have much prefered his wishes to have been made clear.
So; Opt-in, as it is now and continue with the long list of desperate people waiting for transplants? Or Opt-out and allow healthy organs to save lives?
Difficult one. Personally I'm in favour of the opt-out idea. That is, organs are taken unless the person in question is carrying a card which states he/she doesn't wish it.
im in the opt out camp too, i regularly ask families to consider tissue donation, (not organ as special conditions apply for that), many are really pleased that they can help someone although at the moment even if a person carries a donor card if their family object then they cannot donate. i have never had a bad reaction when asking, people have said no but noone has ever said they would rather have not been asked.
I'm in favour of the Opt-Out system as well.... I certainly will have no use for them! :-X
I was under the notion that a donar card was a personal wish that over-ruled family wishes?
And just a thought, but if people deny use of their organs....should they be allowed the use of donated organs?
Opens up a worm can, eh?
No Ken, next of kin are asked. My dad carried an card but when he died mum just couldn't face the thought of it and she said no. By the time things had settled, of course it was way way to late. In the heat of the moment, when someone dies, emotions are terribly raw, I believe it is incredibly hard for the next of kin to make that decision. Opt out I say, we should all be donors.
I'm on the Opt Out side, definitely. Who wants to deny somebody else the chance at life? Not me. You also made a good point, Ken. Can one really refuse to donate but be ready to accept?
OUT every time.
But them I'm slightly biased .
I had a 'none beating' transplant 6 1/2 years ago - probably would be dead by now without it.
Waited 4 years, one month & 19 days to get it though.
In Euro-land, where they opt out, the average wait is just over 9 months.
Opt out here too :) For transplant only though and not medical experiments or training.
Legally when a person dies their body becomes a 'thing' and that 'thing' belongs to the next of kin so they can do as they wish with it, that includes saying no even if in life you wished to donate.
Opt out from me. Though my dad says they can everything except his eyes..... beacause he wants to see wher he is going ::)
I've had a donor card since they came in, also discussed it with everyone so they know my wishes, mind you, doubt if anything's any good now ;D
opt out, deffo
Opt out definitely. When someone dies they are 100 percent "dead and gone". The body is only a shell, it's not needed any more, but some part of it could save another person's life.
I've carried a donor card for years and I quite like the fact that when I snuff it someone could be walking round with my bits :)
i think the card should be to opt out
lbb
Peter had a donor card. I have one too. When he died so suddenly nobody asked and nothing was further from my mind so I didn't offer. If they had asked I'd probably have said yes, but if they had said they were taking him off to remove x y and z i would have found it intensely distressing. circumstances and people vary: there is no humane blanket solution and no single right way.
Quote from: grawrc on September 04, 2008, 22:48:59
When he died so suddenly nobody asked ...
It does also depend on the doctors views and whether he/she is prepared to distress the relatives even more in their difficult time.
ALSO,
You don't have to die to help another live.
BLOOD is a very precious commodity and a life saver on a daily basis.
ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY CAN SPARE A BIT. Do your bit for the human race.
I feel things should be used unless you opt out as well
I have carries a donor card for most of my adult life and am now registered online
carrting a donor card once had my handbag and money in it returned to me because my address was on it
marg
please those that have voted opt out consider joining the organ donor register and let your family know what you want dont leave it til its too late
https://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/Consent.do
I always carried a donor card but then when the Big C hit me and there's the possibility/ 65% probability that C will re-emerge because of lymph-node involvement, I was told that because of this risk I can't donate blood...this, then begged the question...are all donated tissues screened for infection (blood used not to be, with tragic results)....and, do you know, I never ever got an answer, despite giving full contact details...phone, addy, internet, whatever...and I'm still waiting. Years on, I'm still waiting and I've asked the question again recently. Still waiting...
For me, the jury's out until I have absolute assurance that all the necessary screening will be done....would I like/want to gift cancer to anyone? errrr......no, actually.
I am in the opt out camp as well but would like it taken further after they have taken all the usefull bits they then should take whats left and bung it in an incinerator and dispose of it that way.
No funeral expenses no crematorium's no blighting the landscape with land filled with headstones and rotting bodies.
The memories is all i need and hope that's all my family will want when its my turn to go save a lot of trouble and unnecessary ex pence. ;D
I think that Moonbeam's idea is a 24carat gold WINNA! 8) If peeps need a carrot, what better one than this? All the ever-increasing funeral expenses settled, leaving loved ones to have a memorial service? Yep! Way to Go (so to speak.....) :o ;) ;D
They're going to put my ashes on the compost anyway :o :o :o
I think I'm the first dissenting voice on this thread. We all imagine, don't we, death after a short illness, bravely borne. Or perhaps sudden obliteration in an accident.
The reality is very often of course horribly different.
I'm afraid that I don't trust the NHS not to remove organs from those who still have a chance of recovery, nor not to hasten the end of someone who has slipped into unconsciousness.
I don't imagine that anyone would bump me off for the sake of my aged bits, but I fear for my children, whose organs would be worth harvesting.
So I'm on the side of opt-in.
The response here has been a bit of a shock, so many like minded people.
Does ANY-one think that donation is wrong? If so, let's be knowing why.
If not, then I wonder how many others think the same way, and why this supported idea isn't taken as the norm.
Is there a fear organs are taken before death, or could it be a religious thing?
ps: Just posted as you did, M. I looked into what you say and the situation (In Britain) is that the Doner Team cannot have access to a 'body' until death has been declared by a medical team which must follow legal criteria.
The fact that a potential doner is imminent does not alter medical care in the UK.
Ken.
Quote from: debster on September 06, 2008, 16:19:49
please those that have voted opt out consider joining the organ donor register and let your family know what you want dont leave it til its too late
I do, and they know, but then what they choose to do with me when I am not more is really up to them. However, I will come back and haunt them if they don't throw my ashes to the wind at Westward Ho! .
I think the it should definitely be opt out my mums best friend died last year after waiting 12 years for a kidney transplant leaving her 4 kids without a mum ( 13,15.19and 20) and her first granchild to never see her gran she was prepped 7 times to have a transplant only for the next ok kin to back out. every one we know was tested and no one was a mach.
also the bravest person I know gave birth to a beautifully little girl who sadly passed away 3 days later. she let the doctors use her baby's organs and finds getting thorough each day a little easier knowing other children have been given the chance at life thought that gift .
as well as being a blood Donner you can go on the bone marrow register to possibly save a persons (usually a child) life who has leukemia. It involves a 15 min op and a half inch scar if you are found to be a mach so if you can ask next time you give blood or see your GP
Quote from: trinity on September 09, 2008, 23:33:59
... she was prepped 7 times to have a transplant only for the next ok kin to back out.
... every one we know was tested and no one was a match.
I'm not sure how that would happen.
If this was a live organ donation, there is month and months of consultation/councilling/debate/sole
searching and opportunities to back out. It's very unusual for someone to back out at the last moment
and to waste NHS resource.
If no one was a match then I presume that it wasn't a live organ donation in which case
once concent for the none beating donor has been granted, the organs /tissue are harvested and
checked to see if they will make viable transplants.
They are then tissue typed (blood type, antibodies, chromosomes etc). This is then faxed to the
transplant centre database at Bristol, who then cross-match and select suitable recipeint(s) on strict
and agreed criteria.
The hospital where the recipeint has selected to have the transplant done is contacted and informed.
It is they who then have the responsibility of contacting the recipient and prepping them. (ie get the
recipients ok to go ahead, check for any infections or illnesses & re-tissue typing them to double check
compatibility).
There's a lot that goes on before the recipeint even is aware that they may be called in.
I give blood. Started about 18 months ago - took me a long while to get around to donating. Turns out I have O- which is one of the rarer groups but can be given to almost anyone. However, I can only receive O- .... I really should have started donating 30 years ago and helped so many people like me - but I didn't get around to it and I can't change that now.
I would like someone (or several someones) to possibly benefit when I shake off my mortal coils - but haven't yet taken any action to let anyone know and if the truth be known, I expect that I will think about this for a couple of days and have great intentions - but ....
I don't consider myself to be especially different from the majority (that's rather sad to say isn't it?) so I fully expect the majority of folk to feel similarly about this and to take the same actions - that is - forget to register, just not get around to it. So .... we should all be subject to an opt out (with all the existing safeguards to prevent further hurting of family) it would mean that most folk actually do what they would rather like to do.
[I'm not normally in favour of the goverment, or any other authority, dictating to us - but this could be exception that most would probably welcome] .
I first gave blood, (APos) way back in '63 'cos I got 2 cans of beer! That was my first. One time I gave blood pretty much direct to a Gurkha soldier in Borneo, that was quite a thing, me on the top bunk, him on the bottom with a collecting bottle mid-way! I donated regularly for many years but it was for a cuppa and a biscuit, not a beer! I have a gold medal thingy for filling so many bags.
I certainly didn't miss the donated blood and some one got at least as big a kick out of receiving as I did getting the beer/tea and bikkies!
(No! It doesn't hurt.)
I've given blood since I was old enough, but I've managed to wangle a rebate.
;)
Quote from: kenkew on September 11, 2008, 20:36:05
(No! It doesn't hurt.)
Yes it does! the last time I gave blood they stuck the needle in the nerve instead of the vein. I hit the ceiling and never gave blood again (They'd had over a gallon from me by then anyway). Apparently it doesn't happen often. :o :o :o
For me personally I would say opt in but generally I would have to say opt out for the many folks out there who are simply not able to understand the opt out concept and won't.
In Canada there is a place on the driving license to opt in,and if you choose to do so it' s put on by the Canadian equivalent of our DVLA so it right there with you
When I first passed my driving test - all them years ago - there was a detachable section on the licence, on which you could declare yourself as an organ donor. Apparently they only did it for a for years and then stopped.
A side effect of this was the 'detachable' bit. It clearly stated on my official bit of paper "Tear down dotted line". My car has been doing just that ever since.
My OH has always had a donor card but I was always unsure, one year we went on holiday to Rhodes and met a newly married couple and we hit it off straight away mind you I was sat next to them for 3 hours so they could hardly get away. Anyway when we got to know the fella a bit better I asked how he got all his scars, he said that he had a motorbike accident years ago and was in a coma, because he had a donor card the hospital asked the family about switching the machine off so the organs could be used, but his parents said that there was still some family who had yet to visit so they wouldn't let them go ahead, three days later he came out of the coma he no longer has a donor card, and in his own parents words they seeed a bit eager to turn the machine off, so I can echo Melbourne's thoughts, but every one to their own. :-\ ??? ;D ;D ;D
Opt-in here. No system is perfect but can you imagine how an opt-out system will be dead in the water when the first case of someone's organs are transplanted to someone and it is later discovered that the dead person was against organ donation. It will happen, you can bet on it. Think of the ethical dilemma of a recipient who discovers the organs they received came from someone who opposed giving their organs. It's repugnant. The recipient must be secure in the knowledge that the organ they received was a gift - there can be no room for doubt. The system cannot rely on an opt-out card because people who do not want their organs taken may forget their card. Any system with a central database run by the government will be poorly managed and contain incorrect information as is typical for all government run databases.
The opt-out system (in reality presumed ownership) is nothing but a policy based in laziness. The government and the NHS don't do enough to support the current system or educate people. Every time you go to a doctor or dentist you should be given a leaflet and card. Why don't the government send out 20 or 30 million leaflets and cards one year in the post - surely it is worth the investment. A couple of years of that there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions more donors. It's not true that opt-out systems provide more organs. For example Sweden has fewer organs available than the UK because so many Swedes opted-out. In Spain family members can still refuse organ donation but what is different is the culture of organ donation in that only 10% of Spaniards refuse whereas in the UK 40% refuse organ donation when asked.
Even the medical profession are divided, recent surveys showing that just over half of all surgeons are against an opt-out system.
My body belongs to me. It is the most valuable and personal possession I have. When I die my will is the legal document which stipulates what happens to my other possessions. Even after death they belong to myself in the name of my executor. The government has no right to presume ownership of my body regardless of my death and I believe I should have the fundamental right for my body to remain untouched without my explicit, documented consent.
Yes that's all very well, but your body isn't yours after you die, nor is it the Government's, technically it becomes the property of your next of kin. So you can have your wishes set out in a written will, explained in person via a living will or spray painted in glitter on a banner the size of Malta, but in the UK, if your next of kin says different, that's it.
I've always carried a donor card and everyone's well aware of my wishes but, just to make sure (call it an incentive), my will stipulates quite clearly that anything I leave is entirely dependent on my wishes being carried out. In any case I think it would be the height of disrespect for them to do otherwise.
Labrat
Whilst, of course, your opinions and concerns are valid and should be expressed/debated; opting out has been the way in most of mainland Europe now for many years and there is no movement to change this system.
Ethical dilemmas are no more common in other countries than in this. You have the right to express your wishes against and for donation, and provided, at the required time, they are made clear, they will be followed.
Amazin
It is all very well expressing your wishes within a Will, but organs need to be harvested before blood starts to congeal, after that they are useless. Donor wishes need to found on the body at time of death or be given by relatives very soon after.
Pesky Wabbit i think the point Amazin was making is tthat every one knows that Amazin wants to be a donor so if they go against that wish they will not be getting anything in the will
lbb