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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: gowdin on July 03, 2008, 11:00:30

Title: garlic
Post by: gowdin on July 03, 2008, 11:00:30
i have been growing garlic for the past few yearsand have up to now been able to rotate my crop round the veg plot but now i want to increase my production and therefore i would lile to know if i can grow garlic on the same patch of ground this year as i did last year
any replies on the pros and cons would be appreciated
cheers
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 03, 2008, 11:42:47
NO WAY!!

The Allium rotation is the most vital of all - like 9 years!!
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: vegmandan on July 03, 2008, 12:25:53
I've been growing onions in the same bed for the last 10 years .

As long as you don't get any diseases in the previous years then this is fine,lots of exhibition onion growers do this to get an increasingly fertile bed year upon year.

I can't see why garlic would be any different but like I say only if you don't get any diseases in the preceeding years.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: gowdin on July 03, 2008, 12:55:01
well thanks both of you for the replies
still no nearer to making my mind up
but the idea of growing on in non diseased ground is appealing
if there are any more thoughts i would love to hear them
cheers
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Tee Gee on July 03, 2008, 15:53:29
I'm with Vegmandan although I can appreciate Tims reasons.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Barnowl on July 03, 2008, 16:04:05
The problem with allium diseases is that they persist in the soil for years.  Also, if you don't sterilize your tools after digging diseased ground, it is probable that you will spread the disease around your plot rendering it all unusable.

To avoid this hassle, you should be absolutely sure that the bed has remained disease free at the  end of each crop.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Hyacinth on July 03, 2008, 17:36:06
I've read the books, understand the logic, but..... :-[.....my Egyptian Walking Onions are in a permanent bed (they don't "walk" very far ::)) and, tho I tryto vary the garlic bed from year to year, because I grow in my garden the 'rotation' is only on a (token?) 2-yearly cycle from one patch to another then back again. Makes me wonder what professional garlic growers do? Interesting question, Vegman...
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on July 03, 2008, 17:37:42
I wouldn't dare. Every year I get a few bulbs with white rot. If I kept growing them in the same place, it would soon be riddled with the fungus.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: shirlton on July 03, 2008, 18:09:47
I won't have a problem with growing them in the same place cos I will grow mine where my broad beans have been growing. I have a book by Lovell (he was a showman) he says to dig out the onion bed and put the broad bean haulms in the trench and a handful of bonemeal and then some well rotted manure. If I do this every year then I will be rotating. Did it last year for the autumn sown onions and they do look good. Haven't grown any spring sown cos of the problems I had last year with the fly.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: jordsbabe on July 03, 2008, 21:15:26
ok daft question on the way......

Where do you buy Garlic to grow? are they seeds or bulb type things, i've got garlic bought from supermarket can you plant that and when do you plant it? Can't wait for my new book to turn up then i can stop asking all these silly questions  :-[
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: littlebabybird on July 03, 2008, 21:22:35
jordsbabe
questions are not stupid
you plant individual cloves of garlic and get bulbs if all goes well
i got mine from I.O.W. garlic farm
oh and i think the people on here are better than any book
lbb
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: betula on July 03, 2008, 21:23:41
You buy the garlic from the garden centre,break it up into cloves and plant each clove individually.Garlic can be planted in the spring or Autumn I think,must check that.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Hyacinth on July 03, 2008, 21:30:26
Perceived wisdom is that it's best to buy the bulbs from certified stock (ie The Garlic Farm) to minimize the risk of importing disease.....but I've been growing from shop-bought stuff on and off over the years - only precaution I've taken has been to plant them in pots, rather than directly into the soil.

I prefer planting in the autumn - late Oct/Nov......not only because the garlic gets that cold spell to clove up, but also because it's a job out of the way.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on July 03, 2008, 23:14:56
i tried garden centre garlic several times, and it was all crap. If your local GC sells big garlic bulbs for planting, give it a go, but little ones will only produce mini bulbs. Otherwise go to the Garlic Farm, or give supermarket garlic a go. Plenty of people on here have used it successfully.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 04, 2008, 06:08:13
Of course - I meant 9 years clear after an infection!

But long rotation is used by growers - with good reason, presumably?
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: gowdin on July 04, 2008, 08:22:27
thanks to all cotributors
i`m still not covinced either way but i will bite the bullet and use some of the ground i used for garlic last year and rotate the other beds so that in effect i will use the bed for two years and then move on so i can in essence rotate my garlic
once again big thanks
cheers
gowdin
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: shirlton on July 04, 2008, 08:24:50
I got mine from Marshalls seeds. They are from the Garlic Farm
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 04, 2008, 10:22:50
The Garlic Farm is exhibiting at Hampton Court Flower Show this coming week.
We were fortunate enough to have a BBC film crew visit the farm recently in connection with this event.
If time permits, why not tune in to BBC2, Monday 7th July @ 7pm to see The Garlic Farm at work.


For & on behalf of Colin Boswel
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 05, 2008, 05:30:04
Let's get the rotation right - from the horse's mouth!

Quote "Garlic requires a long rotation of more than six years to prevent the build up of diseases such as white rot, and nematode pests such as eelworm. The land is ploughed, cultivated and fertilised according to the needs of the crop and the chosen fields for the year. "

Clear??
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Garden Manager on July 05, 2008, 12:02:14
Whilst I more than appreciate the need to rotate any crop, the length of time a crop needs in the ground can be a problem. Garlic, if planted in autumn (which is the ideal for the best crop) will be in the ground a good 9 months (harvest july). You need to plan your crops carefully to work around them.

I used to have a seperate bed for my garlic, but in recent years have incorporated them into my rotation with other alliums (onions and leeks). Since doing this it has occasionaly caused problems fitting in other crops around them. particuarly this year when they ended up in one end of a bed I wanted to grow my tender beans in. I was forced to split the beans across 2 half bed instead of one single one. Not Ideal but it seems to have worked OK. I still beleive in rotating garlic, particularly in the last couple of years when rust on the plants has been a problem, caused no doubt by the warm damp weather.

For next years crop I plan to grow my garlic seperately from the main veg beds, so that they do not interfere too much with the crop rotations. They will of course go somewhere different again the following year... ;D
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: telboy on July 05, 2008, 17:05:40
Like onions, garlic is a hungry plant so feed well!
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: KathrynH on July 05, 2008, 17:52:02
I try to rotate wherever possible but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way and I've ended up planting the same crop in the same place for 2 years running just because there's no where else. Mostly, I haven't noticed any difference, sometimes things do well, sometimes they don't and I've never been able to put it down to anything in particular.

I bought my garlic from Marshalls (get the catalogue or order on line) planted it in November and I'm now digging up some great bulbs, much better than last year although everything I did was the same.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: gowdin on July 05, 2008, 17:56:49
i recommend the elephant garlic ( i know its not a real garlic its closer related to the leek )
i got my stock from robinsons at forton near lancaster the mammoth onion breeder a few yaers ago i started off with just a couple of cloves and last year about september time i planted out nearly two hundred of the little darlings and a recent check on the bulbs shows me that another fantastic harvest is iminent the elephant from forton is bomb-proof
cheers
gowdin
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: hopalong on July 08, 2008, 11:39:39
I asked my excellent supplier, Jennifer Birch, about this and she insists that it is highly desirable to rotate garlic annually.  It is best to plant it in an area previously occupied by legumes.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: redimp on July 08, 2008, 12:14:09
I plant my alliums (eight year rotation) where my brassicas have been lifted from as chemicals released by brassica roots are meant to discourage allium ailments.  One of these is sulphur which also adds to alliums taste.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Garden Manager on July 09, 2008, 13:29:48
Did anyone see the feature about garlic on Monday night's Hampton Court preveiw programme (BBC2)? Very interesting particularly about all the different varieties.

My garlic is an unknown variety I have kept going through replanted harvested cloves. Been growing it so long i forget where it came from originaly(quite possibly some bought at the supermarket for eating). The yeilds are not great and clearly not a very good variety. I will be looking into buying in fresh 'seed' cloves of a decent variety (Solent Wight looks good) come the autumn.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 09, 2008, 15:50:39
Not a good variety? Do you only save the 5 or 6 really good cloves?
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Sparkly on July 09, 2008, 15:56:32
Quote from: Garden Apprentice on July 09, 2008, 13:29:48
I will be looking into buying in fresh 'seed' cloves of a decent variety (Solent Wight looks good) come the autumn.

We have grown garlic for the first time this year and bought a selection of varieties from dobies. By far the best for us were the purple and solent wight.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Garden Manager on July 09, 2008, 17:16:30
Quote from: tim on July 09, 2008, 15:50:39
Not a good variety? Do you only save the 5 or 6 really good cloves?
I usualy plant about a dozen small cloves from the harvested bulbs. This is about the limit i have space for.


By 'Not a good variety' I mean the lifted bulbs are quite small and the foliage pretty weedy. Usualy enough for our needs but compared to named varieties the yeild is pretty low for the space alotted to them. Plus they seem increasingly prone to rust and other ailments.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Tee Gee on July 09, 2008, 17:35:37
I select the five biggest bulbs I grow each year and plant these on.

Next years are already laid aside.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on July 10, 2008, 08:18:39
I look though all the decent bulbs and pick the biggest cloves I can find for planting.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: OllieC on July 10, 2008, 08:36:46
Quote from: Sparkly on July 09, 2008, 15:56:32
Quote from: Garden Apprentice on July 09, 2008, 13:29:48
I will be looking into buying in fresh 'seed' cloves of a decent variety (Solent Wight looks good) come the autumn.

We have grown garlic for the first time this year and bought a selection of varieties from dobies. By far the best for us were the purple and solent wight.

Did you get their Spanish Roja? And if so, did it get white rot? Mine did - the other 4 (3 from Dobies & 1 saved variety) were fine...
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: Chris Graham on July 10, 2008, 08:42:06
wee question - my garlic has run too seed should I lift them now?
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: tim on July 10, 2008, 09:01:44
Take off the head & let them do their thing.
Title: Re: garlic
Post by: SteveJ on July 10, 2008, 09:13:31

[/quote Did you get their Spanish Roja? And if so, did it get white rot? Mine did - the other 4 (3 from Dobies & 1 saved variety) were fine...
[/quote]

Interesting, I got the Spanish Roja, and grew in a grow bag, it did not get the rot, although the yields were pretty poor.  I note that Dobies are not offering Spanish Roja this year and state in their summer/autumn catalogue 'Spanish Roja which is no longer available'