Hi Guys,
One of the people in the organic area of our site has covered there site in weed killer, if thats not bad enough they have used the watering cans I and a friend of mine use to do it which means all the stuff we have watered has now also died.
My friends plot boarders hers and all the plants along the boarder are also gone.
EAK
:-[
CAM
Bloody hell Cam
Bloody woman! Hopefully it will be so watered down by the time your plants got a drift of it that most will survive - but what is the woman doing? Why does she do that in the Organic section. Is it just generally accepted to be the organic area or is it deliberately kept for organic produce.
What a pain - Hopefully you and your friend won't have too much damage. I would speak to her though and mention that if she does it again can she please supply her own spray vessel and also warn all of you beforehand so that you can cover vulnerable plants and so on.
What a silly mare!
Old Bird
:o
Worse that vandals - they don't know any better!
sorry to hear about that, cam..we've had someone do this in the communal Polytunnel :o
several plants bordering his are looking sickly :(
committee are on the case ;D
hi
the plants look dead after 2 days, we dont know whats shes has used but it looks strong stuff.
Were going to head up tonight with the hose pipe (yes there is a ban but i cant imagine anyone will complain)
The site is deliberably kept organic, this woman is disabled and in a wheelchair and i think has paid someone to prepare the site for her.
I just cant believe that after 2 days things are just... well dead.
Cam
As Old bird said, I hope you speak to her and give her a piece of your mind, stupid cow. >:(
I have called the parish clerk as no one has ever seen her on the plot things kind of just get done over night. I met her once and i got a 20 min ear bashing as someone told her i managed the site.
Oh dear Cam I'm so sorry to hear about this.
I know how you feel.
Fancy using your watering cans, you didn't have a chance really you just wouldn't expect any reasonable person to do that.
I hope they aren't so stupid that they've used something long lasting, as you say it looks like strong stuff.
If they used the watering cans.....do you get water from a tap or a trough? if it's a trough the water will be contaminated as well.....though dilute.
It's hard enough sometimes fighting the slugs, the birds etc without this as well.
The people who sprayed my plants two years ago are never seen...i've never had a chance to give them a piece of my mind. They still have the plot despite a waiting list of 40 someone told me today. I think guilt keeps them away.
Good luck...hope you haven't lost everything.
It amazes me every day how stupid some people can be...
I'd try and get some kind of compensation from her or the parish council - still i'd bet you'd rather have the veg. Did the PC tell her it was an organic area ? Did she have permisson to use the watering can ?
Watering them loads is probably the only thing you could do - although i'd worry about eating the stuff though, especially root crops etc..
Unbelievable! Hope she gets thrown off the site, wheelchair or not!
Horribly stupid. So sorry for your losses, Cam. I hope the allotment govt. solves it to your favor.
Amazing! It sounds like it wasn't her that did it, but someone she paid. Wonder if some compensation could be due?
Disgraceful. I can only try to imagine the horror of it all. Devastated and annoyed. >:(
been up to visit today looks like i have just lost the JA (the ones i got from supersprout and saddad) a while back.
Photo shows the damage http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/cambourne7/damaged_JA.jpg
My friend has lost just about everything bar a row of potatoes, the other row has gone yellow and does not look healthy. His garlic and spinach has got bubbles on the leaves like they have been burnt. All his seedlings in his cold frame are gone as well so thats his beans, peas, brassicas, tomatos, chillis.
I have just picked up some tomatos from freecycle for him and another allotment holder has give us some butternut squash seeds.
The chair of the allotment association came up and inspected he site (no choice really i stood on his plot till he was fed up of me ranting ;D
If she is not thrown off there will be a riot.
Quote from: cambourne7 on June 24, 2008, 21:28:48
been up to visit today looks like i have just lost the JA (the ones i got from supersprout and saddad) a while back.
Photo shows the damage http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/cambourne7/damaged_JA.jpg
My friend has lost just about everything bar a row of potatoes, the other row has gone yellow and does not look healthy. His garlic and spinach has got bubbles on the leaves like they have been burnt. All his seedlings in his cold frame are gone as well so thats his beans, peas, brassicas, tomatos, chillis.
I have just picked up some tomatos from freecycle for him and another allotment holder has give us some butternut squash seeds.
The chair of the allotment association came up and inspected he site (no choice really i stood on his plot till he was fed up of me ranting ;D
If she is not thrown off there will be a riot.
OMFG are those even near the edge of her lottie?
Id be so p*ssed off right now
Sorry your having to go through this cam :(
How on earth did she do that? I'd be spitting tacks. I'm just about to dig up some JAs that are straying from their designated area. I bought the parents on a Gardeners' World offer last year. If you'd like some, you're very welcome to them.
Quote from: caroline7758 on June 24, 2008, 18:23:40
Unbelievable! Hope she gets thrown off the site, wheelchair or not!
Wheel chair or not you just don't do that.
When I took on my plot it was in a bad state, but I just dug it myself.
I am sure if she had asked some of your people on other plots would have helped her.
Hope she does get thrown off the site.
Sorry if I sound harsh but she deserves to
I am so sorry Cam that you and your friend have lost so much stuff. What was the woman thinking about and what weedkiller was used if everything died within a day or so. I think you will need to know what was put down as your ground may not be suitable for growing things for a long time! I hope the chairman does something about it.
Awful. I'd be in tears if I lost all that. What a complete idiot. Really sorry to hear this.
thanks ceres if you can hang on a couple of days as i need to find out what the weed killer is and make sure its not gone anywhere else.
good7saint yes i agree we would have offered to help but shes not really helped herself, shes had the plot for 7 months and done nothing so we covered it in weed membrane to kill the weeds and stop them spreadding. She turned up about 3 weeks ago and removed all the membrane and put laminated signs saying things like keep off and dont touch anything and dont remove anything (dispite the fact that all the stuff she put on her plot belongs to her neighbours). Apparanty shes hired landscapers which might explain the strenth of whats been used. Not the use of our watering cans. The stand pipe is on the corner of her plot and the watering cans are always left full beside the stand pipe. The chair of the allotment association thinks that she may believe there hers or the landscapers though they were old ones they could use. Either way NOT good enough.
We have taken photos and were going to do a list of everything thats gone and what needs to be replaced like the watering cans. My friend was made redundant in march and has been spending all his time up there planting and pottering its so dishartening. Were going to look at some of the beds i had covered in cardboard and plant these up with stuff hes lost while his plot decontaminated.
We have even brought up a hose pipe (normaly banned) to soak the site and try and flush the sites.
The weedkiller looks like one of the fast acting contact ones which can be persistant, so you are wise to try and find out exactly which one as you may need to thoroughly wash or replace the containers and pots you have grown stuff in.
I have spare PSB/WSB and calabrese and some spare courgettes and winter squash if you need them. I know you went to barnsdale meet last year(?) so I would be happy to drive over to Rutland and pass them on if it helps. Let me know.
thanks suzanne i think were going to just consolidate what we have for the moment before we decide what to do.
Hi again Cam!
I am sorry for your losses again - looks a lot worse than I first thought but really should someone in a wheelchair be in charge of an allotment.
I have absolutely nothing but pity for people confined to wheelchairs but as this has proved - they can't do it! They can't dig, weed, work an allotment.
I am sure there are plenty of do-gooders who will say that she ought to be allowed - but truth of the matter is - gardening an allotment is heavy work - not suitable for disabled people! Potentially there could be a group of disabled people that take over one allotment but for one single one who apparently has made no effort anyway for 7 months is a total waste of an allotment.
There are some things that disabled people cannot do - blind people cannot drive cars - they cannot take photographs - except with help! What is the point. People in wheelchairs cannot do what able bodied people can do - it is tough but life can be tough - there are plenty of things that they can do - and do do - very well indeed. all the disabled Olympians have found what they can do and they are going for gold. Why can't this woman find something that she can do.
Cam - hopefully she will not be there much longer!
Sympathies with you and your neighbour!
Old Bird
;D
You really need to find what was used. If it's an all-purpose weedkiller like sodium chlorate, then the soil will indeed be contaminated.
Normally I'd expect a landscaper to use glyphosate, but it wouldn't act like that in two days, no matter what the strength. It's also used professionally as a liquid, so any residue in the watering cans would be small. Sodium chlorate crystals don't always dissolve fully, so the chance of those remaining in lethal strength in the watering can would be much higher.
I'm wondering if the watering can really is the cause of your losses. I'd be suspicious that when the plot was sprayed that weedkiller drifted over your plot, especially as it's been so breezy recently.
In any case, the landscapers were acting as an agent of the plotholder, so it's her responsibility. Small claims court, methinks.
thanks guys.
Has to be the watering cans as all the plants in a covered cold frame were affected.
Sodium chlorate crystals don't always dissolve fully, so the chance of those remaining in lethal strength in the watering can would be much higher
Sounds like the cause put not heard anything yet, will be calling again tomorrow to chase with the clerk.
I would think this could be classed ascriminal damage or negligence. >:( wonder if the person using the weedkiller was certified?
called all the local landscapers who have all said they did not do it the developers dont let them operate on the site apparantly if they use anything 2 bad.
The other guy (his whole plot affected) is going to go see the parish clerk tomorrow and see what can be done. I am going to call into the local police station next week and ask them what they think i can do.
If it's Sodium chlorate that's really bad news.....shows and incredible ignorance it will put the ground out of use for at least 6 months.
I'd give you some JA's but mine didn't come up this year...i must dig down and find out why but I must be the only person in the universe to have JA's die....unless someone put weedkiller on mine but I don't think so. I didn't harvest many so should have ton's.
Highly unlikely that a professional landscaper would use Watering cans that happened to be there and then leave them contaminated..
thanks kea and i agree with you betula but i needed to rule that out in case i got fobbed off.
Not going to do anything till i get the confirmation what shes done.
Quote from: betula on June 25, 2008, 19:02:53
Highly unlikely that a professional landscaper would use Watering cans that happened to be there and then leave them contaminated..
Maybe these "landscapers" are just someone's mates who did a bit of a cheap job, or even someone well-meaning but ignorant who was trying to help the disabled plotholder.
Or maybe she hired a man with a van and not someone who knows what they are doing
OMG!!! This is so terrible, so sorry for you and your friend. It is truely unbelieveable! Is this your only growing area? Have you lost everything? I would expect this would come under criminal damage too.
Really sorry xx
hiya, flossy, nice to meet you.. ;D
who's doing the tests for you, cam ?
did they give you any idea how long you have to wait,
not testing just waiting for the clerk to speak to her to see whats she has used if she comes back and said she has not done anything i will send a sample of the JA and soil to the rhs.
... but really should someone in a wheelchair be in charge of an allotment.
I have absolutely nothing but pity for people confined to wheelchairs but as this has proved - they can't do it! They can't dig, weed, work an allotment.
I am sure there are plenty of do-gooders who will say that she ought to be allowed - but truth of the matter is - gardening an allotment is heavy work - not suitable for disabled people! Potentially there could be a group of disabled people that take over one allotment but for one single one who apparently has made no effort anyway for 7 months is a total waste of an allotment.
There are some things that disabled people cannot do - blind people cannot drive cars - they cannot take photographs - except with help! What is the point. People in wheelchairs cannot do what able bodied people can do - it is tough but life can be tough - there are plenty of things that they can do - and do do - very well indeed. all the disabled Olympians have found what they can do and they are going for gold. Why can't this woman find something that she can do.
Cam - hopefully she will not be there much longer!
Old Bird
If I don't highlight this and register my COMPLETE disapproval of the sentiments expressed, then I am tacitly agreeing with them - and this I will not/cannot do.
So....hands up and be counted peeps....is physical disability/infirmity an automatic disqualification for having an allotment?
I most certainly, of course, sympathise with Cam and her fellow allotmenteers in this instance, but, sorry, feel the need to disassociate myself from Old Bird's sentiments here :-[
thanks, alishka, I'd be disqualified straight away, not in a wheelchair...yet :)
Cam, we've just been through this with the RHS over our weedkiller issue. They will give a member an opinion based on visual inspection of photographs or plant samples but they have no testing facilities. I have contact details of the labs used by DEFRA - the local Plant Health Inspector gave me them because DEFRA won't conduct testing for Joe Public. It is very expensive to have tests conducted but if you want the details, I can pass them on.
My plesh, Manix....form an orderly queue please....behind me ;D
My nicest client, that is, the one most involved in her garden, is the child of a lady who took thalidomide during pregnancy.....client can't walk, can never walk, client has no legs.....has NEVER had legs....
But client has an intellect, reads books, has a computer, knows EXACTLY what she wants, where she wants & the best growing conditions for whatever....
True, patently true?, it seems that Cam's lottie neighbour got it horribly wrong, either in her directions or in her trust that the person she chose to do the work knew what he/she/they were doing.....but that's another issue and nothing whatever to do with physical disability - I think....
Quote from: Alishka_Maxwell on June 25, 2008, 22:15:03
....
Old Bird
If I don't highlight this and register my COMPLETE disapproval of the sentiments expressed, then I am tacitly agreeing with them - and this I will not/cannot do.
So....hands up and be counted peeps....is physical disability/infirmity an automatic disqualification for having an allotment?
I most certainly, of course, sympathise with Cam and her fellow allotmenteers in this instance, but, sorry, feel the need to disassociate myself from Old Bird's sentiments here :-[
Actually, I think you need to think this through a bit more.
Anyone who, by virtue of disinclination or disability, is unwilling or unable to look after an allotment shouldn't take one on.
However you cut it, to do so is just selfish.
So COMPLETE (as you put it) disapproval is just wrong.
Fair enough to say that if you're lame, blind, deaf, or sick of the palsy, that shouldn't disqualify you from keeping an allotment.
But to say, as you seem to be saying, that cripples should have an absolute right to have an allotment, neglect it, then kill the plants on neighbouring plots is hardly justifiable.
"that cripples "
not a nice term :(
going to bed now, bit disappointed
Hi, just read this thread, how sad.
I guess the woman if in a wheelchair must have had someone do the job. They were not professionals or they would have used a knapsack sprayer.
It did occur to me that someone may have done it to her plot because they were annoyed with the state of it. It obviously annoyed peeople for them to cover it.
If this had been a year or so ago I would have said the weedkiller was Paraquat, but this is no longer available. This kills all above ground growth that it comes into contact with, and does so within a day or so. Having said that, it is a contact weedkiller, and does not kill roots of tough or perenial plants or weeds, just the above ground growth. This is no comfort to you as it will without doubt have ruined whatever you grow on an allotment, unless you have fruit bushes that would re-grow. All I can say is if it is Paraquat there will be no residual weedkiller in the soil.
I suggest you take some soil samples and try something quick to germinate like radishes to see if there is any residual effect.
I hope the said lady has the decency to apologise and let you know who did the weedkilling so you can ask them what weedkiller was used. I am not sure if you should not report this to the police, as it may be considered as vandaleim perhaps, as I suspect a dose of weedkiller may have been left in the cans to spite others.
I can see and understand the upset but you must tread a carefull path so as not to get ongoing spitefull acts if she is thrown off. If at all possible she needs help and perhaps, I said perhaps she may one day see the error she made and make amends in some way.
Hope you are all able to sort out the mess.
There is only one issue here - a neighbouring plot holder appears to have caused damage, either through her own negligence or by trusting someone else who then acted wrongly.
I'm not sure why the woman's mobility was ever mentioned.
QuoteAnyone who, by virtue of disinclination or disability, is unwilling or unable to look after an allotment shouldn't take one on.
Try replacing the word disability above with any one of the following: working hours, family commitments, transport problems, lack of equipment, and most of us would have to hold up ouur hands. However, none of those would make us any more or less likely to kill someone else's produce.
Moronic ignorance is not the province of the disabled... as Melbourne's comments aptly demonstrate.
Melbourne, I stand completely by my words......and I feel we've got to agree to disagree here..the next cyber pint's on (but not over, eh?) me, on this one... ;)
I DON'T say that anyone has a right to have an allotment, neglect it, randomly kill plants hither&yon with weedkiller... etc.etc.....of course I don't!
I merely took issue with OB's statement that peeps with a physical disability should be excluded from having a lottie, and that I hold to :)
Im not saying no one with disabilities should have an allotment BUT the one behind me has been taken over by the local health authority with tax payers money!!
Paid over £2500 for a wooden shed thats been sat empty since last year, the council degutted the site, now its back to square one head height with weeds etc
teh person running the plot says they cant let the people onto the site to sort it out as they have health issues and could hurt each other with tools etc
So my ? is why start something when people are willing to sort out themselves if the people involved cannot tend to the plot?
maybe its me :)
Think that I should say something too...
What has happened to Cam and her neighbour is utterly disgraceful, and shows at the best ignorance and at the worst sheer bloody malice... >:(
But for people to say that people in wheelchairs / with disabilities should not be allowed allotments is a very slippery slope, and one which I am also not comfortable with.
Hope the situation can be resolved soon and that the weedkiller is not persistant, also if there is anything you or your neighbour need in future to get back on track, shout, as a lot of us have spares!! ::)
I gotta spare tyre (or two or more) for starters, if you want to make raised beds ;D
QuoteIm not saying no one with disabilities should have an allotment
Yes, I think you are,Tracy, otherwise surely you would be directing your complaint to the health authority and demanding an explanation for the apparent waste of taxpayers' money.
Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread.
im saying nothing else dont want to upset folk :)
Hiya Cam, I'm so sorry to hear what happened, not sure I can do anything but if there is anything you can think of please let me know, I'd be happy to do whatever I can from here.
nope im saying why take on an allotment if you cant keep it running
some folk have contacted the health authority and the council about the allotment, theres a waiting list for them, all im saying is why take one on if you cant keep it up?
:o
Crikey me! Bit of a hornets nest been stirred up! My twopennorth is that the issue here is the behaviour of one person or her agents. I would absolutely defend the right of ANYONE to have a plot if they can manage it, by any means at their disposal.
If the person concerned in Cam's case is aware of the damage caused and is not worried about it, I would be very surprised. Lets's wait and see how it turns out.
My heart goes out to you Cam, hope it gets sorted soon, but let's not make this an anti disablement issue.
Alishka has my full support in the comments she made, I repeat: I defend the right of anyone to have a plot. We have all made mistakes....
:'(
all i have to say is A BIG SORRY for my comments
I didnt honestly mean to cause upset of any discription :(
There is able bodied people around my plot that dont work them, just such a shame when people are waiting years for them that they go to waste
Anyway im leaving this as it is
APOLOGIES EVERYONE
Well i think only people who are able and willing to look after an allotment should be given the chance to have one...so many are taken on by peeps who give up in the first year or two, leaving a mess behind them - but have still taken up valueble places on waiting lists, disabled or not.
It depends on the site location, layout etc.. if a disabled person is able or not, ours is certainly not suitable, and would take £££'s to be made suitable.
However, it sounds to me like the problem with this woman is that she should'nt have an allotment because she's ignorant and stupid - nothing to do with her physical disability.
Hi, Louise.
Sorry to hear about this. It seems likely to be either Sodium Chlorate, Pathclear or Weedol for it to act that fast. SBK takes a few days to show effects and Glyphosate takes a week or two. The first two will contaminate the ground for a period, the third will not, the latter two are systemic and when the plants die down it is usually safe to replant. If she can't or won't tell you what was used, I would suggest you throw some cress seed on the land and rake it in to see what happens. If it doesn't grow it's probably one of the first two.
So sorry to hear about your losses, its very sad that poison of any sort is used instead of a bit of hard work.
As for where you stand, i believe, that this would constitute criminal damage, however i'm not sure if it would be against the lottie holder or the person spraying? but if you cannot get answers as to who, what was sprayed then a report to the police may well provide those answers, granted it may take a while for the police to speak to this person, but it may be enough to give them a short sharp shock into providing the info required. On the other hand this could make them feel discriminated against, they could be hyper sensitive about their dissability and how the world treats them, it could be a potentially volatile situation, but as previously stated i agree this about a fellow lottie holder using or allowing the use of poison on their site!
If it were me i would be tempted to speak to them direct, however long it takes and pull no punches make no allowances for dissability, after all life doesnt.
just my tuppence worth.
Cheers
Mick
I'm with you, Alishka. I'll leave it at that!
Keep us posted, Cam.
How many times do we read about discrimination. In my opinion anyone who has a decent level of intelligence wether they be in a wheelchair or not should be responsible for their actions. If ANYONE did that to my plot they would get the same reaction from me whoever they were.
Most wheel chair users who garden in a serious way use very high raised beds.Maybe this person is planning to have raised beds put in.
The disability really has nothing to do with what has happened at this plot.
The issue is the use of poison.My guess it is a friend or someone doing a job on the cheap who have no idea what they are doing.
My guess is it will be a total waste of time to call the police.
I think your committee should have strong words with this person and at the very least an apology and hopefully the offer of some compensation.
Quote from: Alishka_Maxwell on June 25, 2008, 23:00:12
Melbourne, I stand completely by my words......and I feel we've got to agree to disagree here..the next cyber pint's on (but not over, eh?) me, on this one... ;)
I DON'T say that anyone has a right to have an allotment, neglect it, randomly kill plants hither&yon with weedkiller... etc.etc.....of course I don't!
I merely took issue with OB's statement that peeps with a physical disability should be excluded from having a lottie, and that I hold to :)
Then we entirely agree. There are several physically disabled plotholders on our site, and they do a super job with the aid of friends and family.
But I do think that councils should be a little quicker off the mark when someone is granted a plot to make sure that they are actually cultivating it, or at least making a serious start on the problem. If they can't or won't, then well, it was a nice idea, but next season it should go to someone else. Planning and dreaming is no substitute for actual cultivation.
You could try NIAB or ADAS (both local) for testing but they probably charge an 'arm an a leg'.
It is possible to set up an allotment for someone in a wheelchair provided you spend enough money.
Raised beds and gravelled pathways. This would account for the Agent Orange approach. She was obviously saving money an getting some inexperienced people who don't know anything to do it.
You could take the 'name and shame' approach though not the name bit, apparently the Cambridge News is short of stories as i had a guy on the doorstep trying to sell me the paper a few months ago and i said there's nothing in it to read and he said they need people to send them news items.
I'm thinking I should highlight the Gooseberry thief......I'm told it's an annual occurrence on my allotment and it's a woman...she picked one bush and left me the other two.
Now i haven't even got a fence/gate to keep them out as the Town council organised loads of free manure (to fresh to use!) and dumped a load on top of my fence/gate.
Of course the same people may come back to work on the next stage.
phew what a controversy:
1) yes sorry for your strife cambourne, I hope that she will at least apologise and offer to pay for some new plants etc, but hope that the soil isn't damaged?
2) I do feel that allotment sites should be open to everyone, even those who are a bit daft and inexperienced like myself, but of course on the proviso that they get basic info about what they can and cannot use (we had to sign a paper of rules). I am terrible at weeding so probably do contribute to m y neighbours getting weeds but I would certainly never use any chemicals that would harm things. Sometimes I feel there is a bit of a "be a super gardener or bugger off" attitude which is disheartening when you enjoy your garden but can only provide minimal care to keep it reasonable and get some veg.
3)YES yes yes to disabled folk being able to garden, we have raised beds especially for that, with a local association and they have some lovely courgettes, tomatoes, flowers etc.
BUT if you are so disabled that you need to get a gardener in to do your plot, I fail to see the point? And it may also be a little dangerous for a person in a wheelchair to garden on their own - what if she has a fall etc? and how will she tend the veg from a chair?? unless someone is helping her or she is planning to set the plot up especially for her disabilities? e.g raised up boxes etc?. She seems to be a bit of an exception, from what you have described of her attitude.
Hope the plot is growing stuff again soon...
Sorry to upset so many folks!
Hopefully this mess will soon be sorted for you Cam.
I still stand by my opinions! If someone is in a wheelchair - there is not much they can do on an allotment! There are many many happy disabled people using their many and multitudinous talents that they have - Manics you are obviously coping very well but as you say "you are not in a wheelchair yet".
There are loads of people managing allotments with disabilities - although I have yet to hear of another "wheelchair bound" allotmenteer. Also I would have thought that Health and Safety would have a field day with providing hard access for them in their wheelchairs, along with ramps onto the plot etc etc.
I am not "knocking" disabled people - I am not sayint that disabled people should not be allowed allotments - I am saying bluntly "there are some things that disabled people particularly in wheelchairs cannot do" No point in shilly shallying around it! There are people in wheelchairs that do manage gardens - they also manage the people that they have to do them - bloody brilliant and why not.
Able bodied people have limitations - I certainly don't try climbing mountains, running marathons, sailing the atlantic ocean, even attempting to win Wimbledon. I know I cannot achieve these things. That is knowing your personal limitations.
This person was not doing the managing of her plot at all! So big deal able bodied or disabled they were not able to tend the plot. Maybe this person was being incredibly busy doing something very important elsewhere. Who can tell.
I have huge admiration for those that overcome disabilities and there are several people I know personally that have restricted use of limbs etc. They do not try to do things that they know will be impossible and they have the intellect to understand their limitations. There are huge amounts of things that disabled people and able bodied people can do these days and my idea is work towards the positive things that are achievable using your own merit!
We had a plot for "disabled" people on our site. There were about 2 helpers to the plot and about 8 disabled people. The plot was a mess despite regular attendances - the disabled people were not interested - neither were the helpers - they were just trying to use up some time during the day. They eventually moved leaving their plot completely messed up! When they were there all other allotmenteers were not! If you were there when they were - they were shouting and yelling and generally everyone avoided their visit times.
I repeat I am not knocking disabled people - but I am saying - we all have boundaries, unachievable aims, we all have differing talents we are better off doing what we can do and do it well than trying for the unattainable and failing.
Old Bird
well thats what i was trying to say but im dumb and it came out all wrong :(
Hi everyone,
Sorry I didn't say hello yesterday, but I just caught Cam's pain after reading of the terrible
happening to her plot and needed to say something. [ have been a bit shy till now ]
Do hope everything is resolved soon and the damage reversed.
Thank you for your greeting manicscousers, I have appreciated so much advise, news, photos and endless help already -- will try and join in now !
Some info, Mum and Nan, 66, Lottie 14 mths , Laptop 7 mths! still learning !!! Oh reside Herts x
Right for what it is worth Here in Liverpool we do have an allotment site for people in wheel chairs.
With raised beds and pathed paths, think they have able bodied people to help them out.
But do agree it is a bit pointless giving someone in a wheel chair a plot that they will obviously not be able to do anything with.
Might as well just leave it over grown, if someone has a disability but are able to do things and have friends or family who can help with what they can't that is different
Quote from: Old bird on June 26, 2008, 11:49:02
There are loads of people managing allotments with disabilities - although I have yet to hear of another "wheelchair bound" allotmenteer. Also I would have thought that Health and Safety would have a field day with providing hard access for them in their wheelchairs, along with ramps onto the plot etc etc.
I am not "knocking" disabled people - I am not sayint that disabled people should not be allowed allotments - I am saying bluntly "there are some things that disabled people particularly in wheelchairs cannot do"
There is a gentleman I know who is confined to a wheelchair, he has had his plot for about 5 or 6 years. When he first got the allotment he received help from friends, family & some of the other plotholders to get it cleared, levelled, raised beds built & slabs put down on the paths. Access to the site is up a dirt track full of pot holes but he has no problem accessing his plot. His raised beds are a bit higher & narrower than other people who use them make them & the paths are a bit wider but everything has always been very well maintained in fact he has one of the best plots on the site which is quite an accomplishment considering he has a full time job & the majority of the other plotholders are retired & spend more time at the site.
Getting back to the original subject my plot was one of 2 affected when the person who took on the next plot decided to spray his weeds on a windy day a few weeks ago he used a mix of sodium chlorate (200g per litre) + a splash of farm strength glyphosate. As a result most of my permanent plants have been killed I received a response from the council today about the complaint I made they basically said that he had not breached the terms of his tenancy so they didn't have to do anything but they have been in touch with him & he has informed them that he wishes to end his tenancy voluntarily. The council have also offered me a years free rent as a gesture of goodwill.
Im glad to hear you had some sort of result BaccyMan, I hope you found it acceptable.
Cam........what can I say? I feel for you so much, its bad enough losing plants to stupidity like that but when you had JA's from Supersprout too. Only to be killed off by weedkiller >:(.
Saddad and others can help replace what you have lost, and Im sure you will get replacements. I personally get a tad sentimental over things given by someone who is no longer with us. I do hope you get a satisfactory end result too.
Cam, what sort of things have you and your friend lost...or is it too early to say?
Baccy Man.I bet that doesn't really cover the cost of replacement though. My TC is going to get the bill for my fence which they've dumped a load of very fresh (raw) manure on and possibly my globe artichokes which a slightly underneath now as the fence is only just holding the manure off them. £ years old and just starting to produce a good crop.
wow baccyman thats a partial result but still not ideal.
The police have been in touch today to come and look at the site because of the aligation of criminal damage.
The clerk has not been in touch but were still waiting to find out whats been used so we can work out whats been lost.
my friends list is
> I reckon I have lost
> 3 packets of carrot seeds,
> a packet of parsnips,
> a packet of radishes,
> a packet of spring onions,
> 4 packets of tomatoes,
> a packet of cabbages,
> a packet of sprouts,
> a packet of beetroot,
> a packet of leeks,
> a packet of peas,
>
> and depending on if it is toxic or not, 4 rows of potatoes, all my
> garlic, and all my spinach, and the 6 fruit bushes at the end of the
> plot, JA and my compost.
There is a 3rd plot we can see is also affected as its at the end of hers one bed was full of fruiting raspberries which are a black burnt mess and it looks like someone else may have used the watering cans on there strawberrys which have gone black.
I have posted a message on the site forum to see who else may have used the watering cans.
Just caught up with this !!
Ignorance has reared it ugly head and caused upset again !! I doubt it was done with malice but it has caused you all to lose your crops this year and damaged the soil if you are organic, it may pay to have an amendment to the site rules regarding the use of weed killers and make it a rule to only use gly based ones if need be !
Thinking about the watering cans and i know it 'what you have always done' leaving anything that can be used by others is playing with fire :( i think the safest way is to keep your cans on your plot so they dont get used by others, sad but far safer.
All can be replaced and if i can help please shout i have many seeds :)
We have had to make our toilets wheel chir friendly as we have a disabled group that have a plot on site, they do a very good job as a group.
Huge hugs Cam (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) x
Quote from: Kea on June 27, 2008, 09:29:24
Baccy Man.I bet that doesn't really cover the cost of replacement though.
Council giving me a years free rent saves £12 real cost =
4 fig trees brown turkey/brunswick/white marseilles/violetta @ about £20 each. Taking cuttings was on the list of jobs for this year but not yet done so will have to buy new.
Raspberries, red & yellow varieties I have growing elsewhere so are easily replaced Glencoe (purple) has now been replaced as someone bought me a black raspberry from focus which sounds identical although the variety name is not listed so may turn out to be something else.
Asparagus will probably be grown from seed again so a 3 year wait.
Rhubarb I have growing elsewhere so easily replaced.
Black, red, white currants I have growing elsewhere so easily replaced.
Gooseberries, jostaberries, alpine currants, bilberries, blueberries, goumi, salal, blackcap, sumach, Blackberry-jam Fruit & japanese wineberries will have to buy new.
Salmonberries I think I gave my mum a plant last year, if I am remenbering correctly will be able to replace.
JA's will have to buy new.
Hardy kiwi 'Issai' 1 plant out of 4 has produced has produced 1 new leaf bud so has been potted up in fresh soil & will hopefully recover with a bit of TLC.
Lost some peas & beans but that's not a big deal as i have plenty elsewhere.
My situation is much better than the other plotholder who was affected though as I have additional land I use to grow things he doesn't. I have arranged for a load of free veg plants for him from a market trader I know which he can grow this year. The current plan is to call in a favour from a friend of mine who runs a groundworks company & excavate then replace the affected soil, hopefully it will all be sorted this weekend. In the future I will probably make sure I duplicate all my plants though as some of them are difficult to find.
Baccy Man, sorry to hear about your disaster too. I've had the weedkillered manure and have lost potatoes, beans and now toms are showing the problem. Same offer as to Cam, I can dig up some JA's for you.
Wow Baccy man - what a disaster you have had too! I am dead impressed how much you grow though! How do you find the time to grow all that as well as, obviously, loads of other things.
You will have to take photos when you are up and running again. Sounds really as though you have a bit of everything.
Old Bird :o
Makes me feel like crying just reading those lists- heaven knows what I'd do if it were my plot! :'(
Cam, I'm going to have some raspberry canes which have sent runners off to places I don't want them which you or your friend can have. Glen Clova and possibly Autumn Bliss I'll dig them out and get them to you probably at the end of summer when the ground softens and I can dig them (it's like solid concrete at the moment) up as they won't fruit this year anyway.
You can take the people to the small claims court you know, it only costs 30 quid and is easy to do.
Claim for your lost crop not just the bushes/seeds. :)
Firstly, sorry to hear about your troubles Cam. Do you know this person or ever see her? Have you thought about confronting her and asking if she realises what has happened? Indeed, is she aware of the devastation she has inadvertantly caused? I wouldn't pin too much hope on compensation though, but I bet she leaves your site pdq.
Thanks for the comments guys, its been apreciated.
The clerk has heard from her and shes playing dumb, knows nothing about it. Shock horror!
Add to my list of dead plants a mint plant ( honestly how can you kill mint!! ) anyway we have asked the clerk to get the soil tested. My friends plot we have sort of left not knowing what to do and are spliting some of my unplanted beds up to share so we can get some crops out. So we planted up 3 beds of mixed peas and beans and underplanted with courgette and squash plants.
Strange as it would seam although people on the site have expressed some symphaty they seam to think lecturing us on sharing watering cans and not locking them in your shed is a more worthwile objective. We now have 3 plots definatly afected, my plants in containers and one plot we thinks had the strawberrys killed on but the people are away so we cant check. We have now replaced the old watering cans (although we still have them) with some new ones hidden on my plot furthest away from that woman. The old watering cans are on my friends plot next to hers so it will be intresting to see if they move back at any point. Were also considering adding powdered paint to them to see what happens :D
Not much more we can do till get get the soil sample checked. The 2 massive dock plants on her plot previously unafected are not wilted. And new weeds trying to grow on my friends plot are now also looking brown and crispy so not looking good at all. Fruit bushes might be ok depends on when he watered them and window of opportunity the watering cans had to damage anything.
Going up tomorrow to plant tomato plants and look at the greenhouse i need to move at the weekend. We have given the clerk till wednesday to confirm what the parish is going to do as there is a parish meeting on tomorrow night this can be raised.
Also ruled out external vandalism as we found a bottle of roundup visable and accessable on someones plot untouched and sealed (been there a while).
Going to see if i can arrange a meeting with her, the clerk and all the other people afected to see what happened.
Cam
Cam, I've been thinking of you today, as I've been killing weeds (& ground) for a client....she pays, she says :D
First off, if your laydee strongly refutes the suggestion that, even in a completely accidental fashion, she or her agent, used a weedkiller, then definitely a soil test will be needed to see just WHAT was used - it's certainly going to affect your planting/growing season....and good luck with that.
To the laydee herself (or her friends)....it would have to be proved that she/they and she/they ONLY, had access to your watering cans at that time...
btw......residue in the cans? Can these also be analysed to prove that the killer came from them or that the probability is such that it seems likely that.....?
Whatever, Cam, and despite what other (and non-affected, grrrrr) peeps at your lotties say, I really think you have to get to the bottom of all this.
Thinking of you,
Lishka x
Agree with Lishka that you do need to get to the bottom of it. So if this lady knows nothing about it, is she then claiming that HER plot has been vandalised by person or persons unknown?
Good luck. Let us know if you want anything.
thanks guys
yep i dont believe her either.
I have contacted envionment health and some other gov quango that deals in pesticides to see what they say. I dont think the watering cans will have anything in them anymore.
I am hoping if i can get her into a room that i can get her to admit it.
Anybody that uses herbicides/pesticides and charges for their services are breaking the law if they do not hold the required certificates. They should also have a log book to put all the information in. ie. wind direction, type of chemical, overcast/sunny. etc, etc. Report them to DEFRA and demand action.
This is not a barrackroom lawyer speaking, I have done the course and know the law on spraying.
having recently taken my PA1 and PA6 (pesticide application) certificates, I am up to date with the law regarding sprays.
1, was the person who applied it certified?
2, they should keep a record of anything sprayed and what strength, date, weather etc.
get in touch with Health and Safety.
Certificates of competence are required by users of pesticides approved for use.
in agriculture and horticulture.
a, Contractors - people who use pesticides on premises or property not owned or occupied by them or their employees, unless under direct supervision by a certificare holder.
find out who the contractor was, It is AGAINST THE LAW to spray someone else's land without a certificate.
rgds, Tonybloke.
SNAP!!
the thing is guys i suspect this is someone gone up there with something like path clear and done it to help her out. Not someone professional.
Yes it sounds like she got some friends to do it and they grabbed the first herbicide they found and used it. They should have at least turned up with their own watering cans.
People on the plot next to me who got my squash when they sprayed told the town council (which believed them) that they hadn't sprayed while all their weeds withered and died along with my squash. Mind you in 3 years I and most others have only seen them 3 times.
Really disgusted by the lack of support by people om your site Cam. When I walk round my site you see watering cans sitting out and wheel barrows lying out. Not on my plot though as I'm right at the front and that would be asking for trouble as they'd be easily seen.
If she got someone else to do it, by definition they are a contractor! Call the HSE, and local council, tell them a rogue operator is at large!!
sounds like a plan hehe
Were finding out what other plants have been killed now over time my friends plot has settled down but things are still dead.
Latest plant to die is the comfry plant for kea, and almost a full bed of cabbage and b. sprouts which just have not germinated. I am sure i will find other stuff.
Don't worry about comfrey Cam...unless you now have none.
I chilled my seeds fot two weeks and planted and now i have one seedling.....before that arrived I found plants in Brampton GC. Now I can give you some comfrey if you need it.
I have lots of seeds cam.You are very welcome to some for the time when you are in a position to start again. :)
PM me if you want some.
looks like it was only stuff in pots on my plot so the comfry is still going stong i will however let you know if that changes.
The parish clerk has come back saying he cant find any evidence that this was caused by someone on the plots, however hes looking into getting the soil checked which is something. Hes also admitted that the groundsmen have sprayed with roundup on the site but they use professional equipment so of the soil sample comes back saying nothing in there then it must be the roundup and i will do some more screaming at the parish.
I still think it was the bloody woman Miss Scarlet in the kitchen allotment with the leadpipe weedkiller!!
Typical sit on the fence behaviour from Parish clerk.
Quote from: cambourne7 on July 03, 2008, 00:24:31
The parish clerk has come back saying he cant find any evidence that this was caused by someone on the plots, however hes looking into getting the soil checked which is something. Hes also admitted that the groundsmen have sprayed with roundup on the site but they use professional equipment so of the soil sample comes back saying nothing in there then it must be the roundup and i will do some more screaming at the parish.
I think you now have the answer Cam. If the groundsmen have been spraying Roundup you can bet that they were spraying it on the weeds around your disabled neighbour's plot. If the wind was blowing when they did it, it's not surprising that other plots have been affected. Although they have professional spraying equipment, they would still need to refill it when it becomes empty. They could well have used your watering can for this purpose.
It should be easy for the Parish clerk to find out the date, time and exact location of the spraying done by the groundsmen. They will keep records. Good luck.
Any more info on this yet Cam?
sorry for the day works been hectic.
Update so far is that we are still waiting for the parish to come back to us they claimed 2 weeks ago to have checked with everyone and no one admits to doing it (like they would) and have done nothing about getting the soil tested.
I am royaly fed up and i have decided to put my house on the market and move, ok not the only reason but the allotment is no longer the thing keeping me here. Which is a shame.
If all goes well our new house will have a big enough garden to put a vegie garden in and i have my allotment till september so i should be able to move most things out. Although my friend whos plots been wiped has planted stuff on the plot so i have hoping they will let him take up my tenancy which means all my hard work will not be wasted.
Update
This weekend i will be sending a JA to the RHS to id whats happend to the plant.
The parish have also been in touch to say they have engaged a company to do the soil testing and this will be happening in the next week or two.
Yippie
Cam
update
JA have it seams started to grow back :) one plant has got some leaves on it and when i pulled what looked like a dry stick out of the soil i found little noddules slightly bigger than a chick pea growing at the end which muight indicate the plants are growing back :) Perhapse as the JA were in a a very large pot with all this rain its finaly left the soil?
My friends plot is still a write off we planted some stuff 2 weeks ago in his site and on mine, his died very quickly mine are ok. So something is persisting in his soil.
Clerk has not been replying to our emails for the last 3 weeks sent a snippy email yesterday and finaly got a reply basicaly saying it was going to cost more than he could approve so needs the council to approve the payment. So no guarantee that its going to be done. Envionmental health have not replyed to phone call or email. RHS just say that it looks like weed killer damage.
So stuffed until the soil tests are done which at this rate may never happen.
Small claims court time?
i suspect were getting there
Go for it Cam. ;D ;D ;D
latest update :-
The other allotment holder emailed the clerk again (emailing every week but its made no difference hes not replyed in 6 weeks) and he got a reply
"...gave them the outline of what had happened. After careful consideration the committee decided that it would not proceed with the soil testing. Two members of the public at the meeting stated that there were signs of growth on the plots affected. This was taken into account when the council reached its decision."
The clerk knew that the growth was on the paths and the areas where the weed killer was not used and he was also aware that subsequent plantings were not sucessful. Were both hopping mad. And its intresting that members of the public were not allowed to speak at parish council meetings so we thing this might be the woman we suspect who caused the damage of the parish grounds men who have admitted to having sprayed roundup on the organic plots. Either way be have been royaly sc**eded
This meeting happened weeks ago and they never bothered to tell us.
How infuriating- what's your next move? Or are you going to forget about it and concentrate on your house move and your new veggie garden?
Quote from: caroline7758 on October 05, 2008, 18:03:51
How infuriating- what's your next move? Or are you going to forget about it and concentrate on your house move and your new veggie garden?
Yes i am going to concentrate on the move and the guys whos plots been trashed is going to take my plot on. But i am thinking that were going to make a complaint and legal action not out of the question.
Why didn't you get the chance to be at the meeting, you had every right to be there.
Quote from: Kea on October 05, 2008, 22:47:07
Why didn't you get the chance to be at the meeting, you had every right to be there.
We were not under the impression it had to go to a meeting we were told my the clerk he had already ordered the kits then we found out that this meeting had happened we would had gone if we had been told there was the chance we were not going to have the tests done. Its all a bit of a mess really.
Sorry to hear your house move fell through. It must be so frustrating when you were so looking forward to it. Hope you can get your allotment going again after the weedkiller incident in the meantime and try again next year when hopefully things might have settled down a bit in the economy.
(Tried to pm this but your inbox is full)
thanks hon, the plan now to to tidy the lotty up and get it planted with crops for the next 2 seasons and plant stuff into pots where i can so they can be moved out of season.
A friend of mine fell down the stairs last week so i am spending some time keeping her busy as she has to stay off her feet for 2 weeks and when the weather allows going to the lotty. Been organising my seeds over the last couple of nights when i cant sleep so working out what i can plant now.
Doing the same for flowering plants which i can start off now in my mini greenhouse. Larkshall kindly gave me a larger plastic greenhouse which i am going to be making use of in Feb to get some stuff started and i am planing on using some of the wood i have and the greenhouse glass i have from my trashed greenhouse to make some covered planting areas for tomatos and chillis to get some early crops.
As for the house well the one we want is still for sale (has been since feb 08) and there is a good chance that it will still be there next year. Were also looking at land for a self build :)
Best of luck Cam what ever you decide to do next year. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: cornykev on November 10, 2008, 19:48:12
Best of luck Cam what ever you decide to do next year. ;D ;D ;D
thanks hon