What the hell is happening to our country.
Bring back Enoch Powell. Too late!
Staying on uniforms but digressing , I remember my dad who was a cinema projectionist , Walking around Halifax in army uniform and boards back and front, Advertising "Iwas Montys Double" just to earn the 10 bob the manager paid him for doing it.
He`s long gone now but thanks for bringing up the memory Tim.
Yes we made a grave mistake ignoring Enoch Powell.
Uh oh, I'm off to get some sandbags and my tin helmet
I used to live in Peterborough, I was never proud to be seen walking in the town centre - what a dump.
But I do like women in uniform ... any uniform.
Quote from: tim on March 07, 2008, 19:17:15
What the hell is happening to our country.
Bring back Enoch Powell. Too late!
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
One of our proudest moments was walking along with my son in his uniform, he was allowed an hour off because we had gone up to London to see the changing of the guard at Buckingham palace (he was in the Devon and Dorset regiment, now sadly gone)
Just a word of warning if a member of the queens guard walks out into the road you have to stop for him! The only thing he had to get out of the way of was a red bus! (I didn't know this until he told me,)
I think that more of our armed services should wear their uniforms in public and be proud of it, It was stop because of the mainland activity of the IRA .It's amazing how different people walk in a uniform as opposed to how they behave in causal cloths
I disagree. I happen to think that the UK is still a pretty good place to be. If Enoch Powell had been given the chance to run this country he'd have destroyed it.
Too many people in this country are always ready to blame all the problems that we do have on other people, mainly based on the colour of their skin.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being in favour of stricter controls on immigration, but, constantly blaming the people that are already here for every little problem that comes along is out of order.
What would Enoch Powell have done for us? The NHS would be a total disaster for starters. I'm sure all the Enoch Powell supporters keep their feelings to themselves when they, and their families are being cared for by doctors, surgeons, nurses etc who happen not to be 'white British'.
I'm not trying to have a go at anyone. Just stating my opinion.
All The Best-Marky.B :)
Sorry marky, but I used to work in the NHS during the 60s and 70s. Enoch Powell was Minister for Health during that time, and I remember the Deputy Hospital Secretary commenting that he was the best Minister he had known.
valmarg
Quote from: tim on March 07, 2008, 19:17:15
What the hell is happening to our country.
Bring back Enoch Powell. Too late!
Having never known who Enoch Powell is, I had a look at some sites all about him.
WOW, this man saw the future of Britain. Very impressive man by the sounds of things. Shame they didnt listen to him back then. :D
His views on how immigration would turn out in this country if they didnt listen then is so true today, the statistics were right. He does sound like a truly amazing man!!
I used to live near Peterborough, surrounded by RAF bases and one army barracks. My family still live there. Walking round a supermarket with a good friend in full soldiers uniform, we were taunted and followed around the supermarket with them singing Soldier boy etc etc. We held our heads up proud and carried on doing the shopping. It was very difficult to ignore, and for me to keep my mouth shut and say something back.
The shocking part of the above story, is that its mainly children. This generation do not remember the war.... or even know what Remembrance Day is all about!!!!.
Again, I think the education system is failing!!!...
I would agree that Powell's views have been distorted - especially in respect of the "river of blood" speech.
The problem was that he was highly intellectual and failed to realise that most people would not grasp the classical allusion (from Virgil's Aeneid) which was to a watershed moment rather than massive violence (although I suppose the violence did arrive, that wasn't the point he was making).
No one's likely to be absolutely correct or mostly correct for a long time in political and economic theory because the world changes but he certainly wasn't the first nor will he be the last politician to call for controls on immigration. Is is perhaps salutary to remember that in Henry VIII's time practising Jews were not allowed in England.
I agree with you entirely Marky B.
We have been a multi-cultural society for a long time now and I bet there are very few reading this that do not have some "foreign blood" in their veins. My grandmother's name on my mother's side was Norman so there must be Scandinavian origins there. On my fathers side my gt, gt grandmother was French.
I think it is a fear of the unknown that makes people racist. I have a cousin who does not like using the buses because everyone on it is black! I asked her how many friends she has that are black and, of course, she doesn't have any. What is very strange though is that she is very dark skinned. Her father was dark too so I would love to research her family tree!
Back to Tim's original statement now. Do we know the colour, race, ethnicity of the people who throw abusive remarks at service personnel? No we don't! As for Enoch Powell, he was evil. >:(
Better the devil you know?
I used to thumb it between Southampton and Skipton quite a few weekends. Off on Friday, back Sunday night. That was in uniform. No problem getting a lift, people where only too ready to stop for a service-man.
Anyone slagging of a member of the armed forces for wearing the uniform should be kicked back into the hole they crawled out of. There's nothing so demoralizing as being on active service and hearing of such goings on back home.
Pass a law Mr Brown and hand th *******'s over to the army for rifle practice!!
This was emailed to me today. THought I would post it!!.
> > > Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!
> > >
> > > Written by a housewife in New Brunswick, Canada to her
> > > local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady.
> > >
> > > 'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or
> > > was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our
> > > shores on September 11, 2001 and have continually
> > > threatened to do so since?
> > >
> > > Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered
> > > that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from
> > > the nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?
> > >
> > > Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a
> > > horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't
> > > they?
> > >
> > > And I'm supposed to care that a a few Taliban were
> > > claiming to be tortured by a justice system of the nation
> > > they come from and are fighting against in a brutal
> > > insurgency.
> > >
> > > I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in
> > > and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on
> > > 9/11.
> > >
> > > I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
> > > East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of
> > > which is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan.
> > >
> > > I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry
> > > for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed
> > > through his gurgling slashed throat.
> > >
> > > I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in
> > > Afghanistan come out and fight like men instead of
> > > disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.
> > >
> > > I'll care when the mindless zealots who blows themselves
> > > up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children
> > > within range of their suicide bombs.
> > >
> > > I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that
> > > their freedom of speech on stories is more important than
> > > the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families
> > > waiting a home to hear about them when something happens.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN
> > > soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain
> > > information, know this: I don't care.
> > >
> > > When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when
> > > he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped,
> > > you can take it to the bank:
> > > I don't care.
> > >
> > > When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a
> > > prayer mat, and fed 'special' food that is paid for by my
> > > tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being
> > > 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your heart of
> > > hearts:
> > >
> > > I don't care.
> > >
> > > And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's
> > > spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.' Well, Jimmy
> > > Crack Corn and, you guessed it,
> > >
> > > I don't care!!
> > >
> > > If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your
> > > E-mail friends Sooner or later, it'll get to the people
> > > responsible for this ridiculous behavior!
> > >
> > > If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete
> > > button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't
> > > complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims
> > > happen here in our great Country! And may I add:
> > >
> > > 'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they
> > > made a difference in the world. But, the Soldiers don't
> > > have that problem.'
> > >
> > > I have another quote that I would like to add AND.......I
> > > hope you forward all this.
> > >
> > > One last thought for the day:
> > >
> > > Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for
> > > you:
> > >
> > > 1. Jesus Christ
> > >
> > > 2. The Canadian Soldier.
> > >
> > > 3. The British Soldier.
> > >
> > > 4. The US Soldier.
> > >
> > > 5. The Anzacs, and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One died for your soul, the other 4 for your freedom.'
> > >
> > > YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET ALL
> > > OF THEM. AMEN!
Quote from: Paulines7 on March 08, 2008, 12:12:41
As for Enoch Powell, he was evil. >:(
I really don't think you could have done much research on him, Pauline. Doesn't a remark like that show the sort of media driven bigotry you are condemning?
It's like basing your view of Richard the Third on Shakespeare's play.
Sticking to the main topic....there's no proof so far who's slinging the abuse at our service people in Peterbro'.
In a town in Yorkshire last year the veterans marching to the war memorial were verbally abused by a gang of yobs outside a pub. These were white local yob's, not immigrants, not black, not Islamic.
Seems yob's and cowards come in all forms.
Quote from: Paulines7 on March 08, 2008, 12:12:41
Back to Tim's original statement now. Do we know the colour, race, ethnicity of the people who throw abusive remarks at service personnel? No we don't! As for Enoch Powell, he was evil. >:(
From friends of mine who have family serving, I can pass the information on to you, The abusers are mostly muslim.
I used to serve many moons ago, if anybody had the nerve to take a poke, they only done it once! Also my relatiation would have been cheered by anybody witnessing the event. Now everybody would no doubt shout you down if you dare defend your uniform at the same time as branding you racist. (it's the stock retort if you do not agree with them).
Going back to people in uniform. When I was about 10 I would take myself off to visit my grandparents, my grandfather always said when I was leaving, "now, if you have a problem in getting home, you can always go up an ask a man in uniform". Changed days indeed!
I am old enough to remember Enoch Powell, Barnowl and believe me he was evil.
My morals/principles were taught to me by father and the church when I was growing up. I was taught that all men are equal regardless of their religion, colour and race and that there were good and bad in all societies.
The post that springbokgirlie put up here is far from being Christian in its content. It is insinuating that all Islamic people were perpetrators of 9/11. This sort of material doesn't do any good for society and makes the gulf between us even greater. The Canadian woman doesn't care that Islamic prisoners are ill treated. If she was a Christian or had high moral values, she would!
I am now an atheist and have been for over forty years, but still have the values that Christianity taught me. If this Canadian woman became prime minister then it would be sad to think that there were so many people with her immoral viewpoints. No wonder this world is full of conflict.
Quote from: Paulines7 on March 08, 2008, 14:36:58
I am old enough to remember Enoch Powell, Barnowl and believe me he was evil.
So am, I, and he was not evil. He was just pointing out that the country could not sustain the wholesale immigration that was happening But of course the redtop loony left distorted what he was trying to say, and branded him racist.
The 7/7 bombings, and 'luckily' failed 21/7 attempts really do fulfill his 'rivers of blood' speech.
What I can't understand is 'why' this country is so attractive. Personally, much as I love my homeland, if I could afford it, I would be out of here like a shot.
valmarg
Enoch Powell would of got my vote if he was alive today or I was born then. He will be turning in his grave.
Neat poem Springbokgirlie ;)
If it can be proved who abused these guys then the full weight of the law should be applied. It is not important as to which faith insulted the sevicemen. The point is it was said at all.
This is truly an odd world and nasty things happen to all sorts of people. But what really gets to me is when a group of people harass and intimidate another group. Either way.
There will always a pimple on the ass of every race / faith and its those people who need to be dealt with HARSHLY by the rest of the community as a whole. If you cannot fit into another persons way of life and live in peace with them then go back to where you came from and dont try and drag us all down to your level.
It should be up to the people of Peterborough (all faiths) to feel ashamed and do something about it. Awful place.
I AM NOT A RACIST AT ALL.
Enoch Powell was not evil , what is happening now is EVIL.
People like this country Valmarg, because they can live off the taxpayers backs no questions asked, also thieve at every oppertunity, yes there a good peeps but they suffer because of the thieving scum all over London & elsewhere.
Quote from: tim on March 07, 2008, 19:17:15
What the hell is happening to our country.
Bring back Enoch Powell. Too late!
Used to respect you.
Quote from: valmarg on March 08, 2008, 10:16:34
Sorry marky, but I used to work in the NHS during the 60s and 70s. Enoch Powell was Minister for Health during that time, and I remember the Deputy Hospital Secretary commenting that he was the best Minister he had known.
valmarg
Can't say the same to you.
Quote from: springbokgirlie on March 08, 2008, 10:38:04
Quote from: tim on March 07, 2008, 19:17:15
What the hell is happening to our country.
Bring back Enoch Powell. Too late!
Having never known who Enoch Powell is, I had a look at some sites all about him.
WOW, this man saw the future of Britain. Very impressive man by the sounds of things. Shame they didnt listen to him back then. :D
His views on how immigration would turn out in this country if they didnt listen then is so true today, the statistics were right. He does sound like a truly amazing man!!
I used to live near Peterborough, surrounded by RAF bases and one army barracks. My family still live there. Walking round a supermarket with a good friend in full soldiers uniform, we were taunted and followed around the supermarket with them singing Soldier boy etc etc. We held our heads up proud and carried on doing the shopping. It was very difficult to ignore, and for me to keep my mouth shut and say something back.
The shocking part of the above story, is that its mainly children. This generation do not remember the war.... or even know what Remembrance Day is all about!!!!.
Again, I think the education system is failing!!!...
Don't forget that you are an immigrant but you are a white protestant so I don't suppose that matters. BTW, is you family here because apartheid ended?
A certain Spitting Image song springs to mind.
Quote from: rosebud on March 08, 2008, 16:22:57
I AM NOT A RACIST AT ALL.
Yes you are.
Quote from: ktlawson on March 08, 2008, 15:41:05
Enoch Powell would of got my vote if he was alive today or I was born then. He will be turning in his grave.
Neat poem Springbokgirlie ;)
And so are you.
BTW - I think the bahaviour towards servicepeople in uniform is despicable. Peterborough is a very right wing town though. It is just a very large fen village.
Quote from: redclanger on March 08, 2008, 16:38:54
Peterborough is a very right wing town though. It is just a very large fen village.
Erm, from a girl that loves the city and the surrounding area, I dissagree with you there!!!!.
You do not know me Redclanger so do not say i am a racist, it is not colour it is the despicable behavior.
Anybody who agrees with what Enoch Powell said about race and race issues is a racist. I too think what is happening in Peterborough is dreadful but I would never associate myself with that man.
In my Army days I used to love walking around in my uniform,especially at home on leave......the female attention was brilliant.You would be surprised how many wanted to try my hat on ;D
Sadly,the IRA threat put paid to that.
On the seventh day He rested-and so called out" oi you downstairs I have created the Heavens and Earth but just a thought,-could you do Peterborough?"
Quote from: redclanger on March 08, 2008, 16:46:10
Anybody who agrees with what Enoch Powell said about race and race issues is a racist. I too think what is happening in Peterborough is dreadful but I would never associate myself with that man. + previous post
It's more polite to discuss rather than insult people, RC. Stop assuming you can sum up everybody else from a few of their words. Don't judge people to be wrong and yourself right because you don't like what they're saying. It's called having an opinion. Discuss.
My two penneth..
The NHS in the 60's was something to be proud of whoever was responsible, today it is a disgrace.
It is immoral to blame all Muslims for all the evil in the world,I have no doubt there are some pretty disgusting ones, but is just as daft to say all Scots are mean, all Welsh are illiterate, all Poles are stupid , all Americans are pushy,all South Africans are racially prejudiced and all the Irish make bombs.
It is equally immoral to throw abuse at servicemen My husband years ago was Raf and I never remember any abuse..It is against our faith now to be involved in any kind of warfare, we don't fight,we don't vote, we have no political views or aid any warfare in any way,BUT..the ideals that govern our beliefs as stated would also condemn us being rude or abusive to those that do.
The Canadian who wrote the earlier epitaph is not typical of any Canadian I know. We lived in a very cosmopolitan area of Canada and we all got on with one another.She says " I'll care when"......and then waits for someone else.Personally I care now,because I belive it is right to care , not for any other reason, and to wait for someone else to be able to care is sad. Our neighbours came from all over the world, never in 30 years did I remember anyone with the views that she had.
Our globe is small,if we embrace each others differences there is no reason why there should be trouble and it has to start with tiny steps...if we think the guy down the road is no good, be better than him.........maybe his children will see that and learn a better way.
I have never been able to understand the view that one man is better than another whatever the argument...different certainly but not better, and to get back to the original point it is wrong to yell at anyone,serviceman or otherwise.
XX Jeannine
I have some views on the NHS. The specialist who has repaired my tendon was not white-but I had every confidence in him-it was his skills that I needed-the colour of his skin was entirely irrelevant.
The quality of post op care was fantastic-there were others in much more pain than me and they were checked and helped on a frequent basis.
It`s the little things that annoy. When I arrived for my pre-op tests there was no wheel chair available,it was only when I basically said "sod this" and started crawling down the corridor did someone go and find one. Needless to say I have hired one now.
RC, earning your respect isn't on my agenda. You have insulted several people on here because they disagree with you.
Enoch Powell was not a racist, but you are a bigot.
valmarg
Enoch Powell? Meet you all on BBC2 (tv) tonight at 9pm.
Agree with SB lets have a discussion not an insult throwing game RC, I might add I USED to have respect for you but you have managed to change my opinion of you.
I don't suppose that will bother you one bit!!!
From my understanding of the incidents, its not a matter of religion, but a matter of age.
Its 16/17/18 year olds that have no respect and that crosses all races.
When the Government suggest they SHOULD wear their uniform in public, does that include their weapons ?
I think that might deter a few unwelcome comments.
Quote from: Fork on March 08, 2008, 16:46:19
You would be surprised how many wanted to try my hat on ;D
Are you sure it was your hat they were after ?
Well said RC and well said Jeannine. Quote from: rosebud on March 08, 2008, 16:44:40
You do not know me Redclanger so do not say i am a racist, it is not colour it is the despicable behavior.
Rosebud, racism isn't to do with colour though that sometimes comes into it. What despicable behaviour are you talking about?
I am disappointed that there are so many racists on here and I feel sorry for you. Your lives must be full of hatred and to the extent that Valmarg wants to leave the country! It doesn't bother me that we live in a multi cultural society but it obviously bothers some of you. I take people for who they are regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, colour etc.
On the subject of servicemen and their uniforms, I think it should be up to them whether or not they wear it away from the base. I also think they need a lot more support out in Afghanistan if we are to win this war against the Taliban. When I watched the Ross Kemp programme I was amazed at how small a force we had there.
Folks I would like to think we are all friends on here, lets not say too much about individuals please, someone is going to get hurt........please.
This is a very volatile topic and one that we all need to think about before we post.
We have moved from uniforms to racism and now to personal comments.
It is becoming a little too unsettling now.
I wonder if a Scot gets jeered out for wearing his kilt.........
With sincere respect(especially to the Scots)
XX Jeannine
Quote from: Paulines7 on March 08, 2008, 19:43:41
Rosebud, racism isn't to do with colour though that sometimes comes into it. What despicable behaviour are you talking about?
I am disappointed that there are so many racists on here and I feel sorry for you.
That's the very point Rosebud was trying to make, don't you see? People all too often do associate racism with colour which is obviously wrong. People need to research the word racism a bit more before banding it about so freely. It's a word that's used far too often these days against people wishing to express their views on many things - a lot of which are NOT racially motivated.
Rosebud, myself and my dad had a very long phone conversation about this thread earlier today and pretty much agreed that no matter where a person comes from, if they give respect they get it back. Otherwise, not a chance. Personally, I don't care what people think of me for my views on that but I don't tolerate bad behaviour or manners from anybody - foreign or not. Neither will I accept excuses such as not being able to criticise a foreigner because it makes me racist because it doesn't. If your distorted view of racism reflects your own thoughts, keep it that way and don't try to make it mine.
Agreeing with Lorna & Jeanine, do try to keep this debate open and non personal, it's much better that way.
Do you know, I used to have a lot of time for the posters on this site, but after having just read through the rabid rascist ravings here I'm not sure I want to be involved in anything like this. I'm not even going to bother arguing any of the points raised here because I don't think the narrow minds that have vented their spleen here could ever or would ever want to listen and try and understand. Suffice to say, I don't want to share even veg talk with the likes of you.
Springbok Girlie: I have reported your post to the moderators.
Moderators: I'm surprised that you allow this bile on your site.
Before this thread gets closed I want to make another comment.
It goes for all posts actually.
The written word is reflected by the reader, not so in conversation and I think we all need to remember that.
Often a comment or a link comes over somewhat differently to what one might hear in a usual debate and I think this can lead to wrong impressions and hasty re buffs. I would like to believe that a link does not always reflect the views of the poster too.
I don't want to see anyone hurt here, I am on a couple of forums, a quilting one, Daves Garden and occasionally on Baker Creek, all US based as it is a flavour of what used to be home. I used to be on another one but I had to come off it as folks were always falling out and there were many tears. I saw that forum split into two camps and it was almost impossible to stay neutral. I chose to leave as I found the hurt distressing.
This post has been one of several lately that has raised ruffs,all started quite innocently by decent reliable posters.
Lets not fall out anymore, all friends fall out, please I ask you again. Let's play nice again.
This sounds patronising, it is not meant to, but it does illustrate my point about the written word not always portraying what is meant.
Sincerely and with respect
XX Jeannine
A quick thought, and then I am locking the thread.
Has the advice not to wear uniform come about due to one incidet involving a nurse 15 months ago?
As far as I am aware, we do not know the race, colour, or religion of the person abused, or the abusers.
With that in mind maybe everyone should stand back and reflect on presumptions made about the incident.
Thread is now closed.