Hello,
here in the UK we are constantly being told about unruly children and teenage behaviour. There are shootings and muggings. Now a young person has been pushed into the water and drowned by a gang.
I must admit I am starting to get a bit jittery about all this. I know there are a lot of good people out there, but these events worry me as to what the future holds.
I am intending to retire to France or Spain one day. We dont get to hear about the day to day problems in other countries. Is it the same in other countries, or is it much calmer out there?
Any thoughts anyone, especially those living abroad?
Thanks
cj :)
We've recently sold our house in northern France, which we'd had for 17 years. In all the time we were there, I can remember only one problem, which was when a group of visting Parisian children, up for a camp vert, stuck screwdrivers into all the car tyres in the village.
But you do get some politically-inspired rioting, which tends not to happen here, although it's confined to the larger towns. There was a lot of trouble in Rennes, for example, during the recent elections. But about as close as we got in our village was someone daubing "Fasco" on the road outside a local Le Pen supporter.
Carolinej,
I am also looking at moving out of the UK in a few years although i am looking to go a little further afield like NZ :)
I believe that you need to spend time getting to know your new area before you make such a life changing decision. Hire a camper van and drive around spending time looking at where you might want to lay your head.
You might want to subscribe to local news papers so you get to know whats happening in your new ear-marked area and translating into english will help you learn the language.
cambourne7
pls dont forget little maddie got abducted/killed... whatever... in portugal.
I think people should try to remember that the news only shows the bad things so it can be sensationalised and therefore we think it's worse than it really is. There are far more good things going on from day to day but unfortunately that does not make for a headline that sells papers or fronts news channels.
Quote from: RosieMcPosie on October 03, 2007, 14:15:49
pls dont forget little maddie got abducted/killed... whatever... in portugal.
Yeah, but probably not by a Portugese person.
Cambourne,
I was wondering about NZ, but OH thinks it may be a bit too far away from the children and gandchildren. I have heard that itt's a bit like 'Heartbeat' over there, still in the 60s. Do you think that's right?
cj :)
In 1962 I married a Swiss girl and have been living in Switzerland ever since.
We like travelling and we go to Germany regularly, to Italy at least twice a year, to Austria occasionally and to France now and again. We've spent whole winters in Spain and the Canary Islands.
If I compare those countries to GB as they were in the sixties (when I visited them first) and as they are now I can only say that the UK just hasn't kept up.
It's maybe a silly example but when we were in London last year we took a trip to Hertford by train from King's Cross station. In the station my wife asked me 'why is the roof (inside) so dirty?' Looking up I realized that the roof has never been cleaned since the time of the steam trains. The journey to Hertford was a disappointment, the mess everywhere, the tracks littered with plastic and paper, discarded buildings, junk in the fields, dilapidated rolling stock. Not to speak of the once lovely town of Hertford that I knew so well as a boy. It seems as if no-one cares.
I read a lot in the British press, I visit London once or twice a year and interest myself for European culture. British culture is nowadays based on American TV, or so it seems to an observer. Yobs and louts are few and far between here, as are crimes. 'Mugging' is virtually unknown, in fact most young people have a main hobby and sport, good music and ccommunal activities still play a big part. Most families have a more solid background in these countries than in GB. We don't, for example, have any damage done to our allotments or public amenities (there will always be exceptions). My allotment lies, together with 100+ others, well away from the village/town I live in but is in no danger from thieves or yobs.
Our two sons (grown-up now of course) speak at least three languages each - schools start here at 8am and every child learns at least one further language in school. Getting a university place requires lots of work to a high standard in at least seven subjects. There is very little need for teachers to discipline children in any way, most parents involve themselves in their children's education.
In general, transport problems are faced and investments made to solve jams and stand-stills;, tunnels, tramways, new railways, are all part of the answer on the continent.
I know, because I read the local paper in the internet of the part of London I lived in 50 years ago that the problem of getting to the tube station by bus is exactly the same today as it was then... unbelievable.
Naturally there are those things about GB that are positive too. The architecture around the Thames, is, in my opinion more than excellent; museums, theatres, libraries, concerst - superb. But for everyday living there's a terrible lot to be made up - not to mention the terrible food offered by 'restuarants' at such high prices.
We have lived outside of the UK for the last 18 years, 12 months in Denmark, but the majority of it in either Belgium, The Netherlands or, as of the last six years, in France.
Let's face it, In any country there are incidents involving children and teenagers (we were in Belgium when Dutroux was kidnapping young girls - and when he was captured finally), and unfortunately here in France from time to time a child does go missing. But it does seem to be more prevalent in the UK than elsewhere. Does it get more media coverage in the UK than here? I don't think so - although the media does seem to be more sensationalist in the UK than here.
When I come back to the UK for visits, I am always struck by, and slightly afraid of, the groups of youngsters that hang around the streets, creating disturbances, if not making trouble, and more often than not drunk, girls as well as boys. It is unusual here in France to find groups of more than three or four people hanging around, they are very rarely aggressive, and even rarer are they under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol is saved for the nightclubs, and people are generally reasonably controlled.
Admittedly in France each region has its difficulties, generally due to immigration policies and poor unemployment, but generally everyone lives in harmony.
I agree with Busby and what he said about family values etc. We are glad we made the decision to leave the UK and have our children grow up in France, and feel that they are receiving a much more thorough, balanced education than they would have received in the UK. That is coming to an end now - one is studying at university (Prépa) and the other studying for her BAC, and so in a few years our preoccupations will become more employment-based. There maybe the difficulties will start - that is one area where the UK is ahead of France. I only hope the French turn the problem around as I have no desire to come back to the UK at all, I'm afraid to say.
From choice I would like to go to NZ - it is clean and fresh there. They obviously have their internal problems too but it is a lovely country ..... and £ for $ it is quite cheap too. I wouldn't mind France either. I go to France every year for a couple of weeks and am still quite surprised that the streets are all clean - no litter blowing around. Also, they don't have hoards of youngsters hanging around on street corners - in fact there are no people hanging around anywhere in the villages/towns - whatever time we drive through any towns/villages - they are completely empty of people - weird. Still that being said, we enjoy the lifestyle of France. Spain.....nah - too many whinging Brits! ;)
Twinkletoes
I belong to a rather controversial website/forum with members from all over the world (truly, all over the world) and believe me when I say that from the conversations which take place on that forum from people as young as 18 and upto their 50s that no country is exempt from the behaviours spoken about above. Don't tar all of the UK and it's people with the same brush just because you've seen some bad people in the press doing some bad things and don't for one minute think that any other country - inside of Europe or out - doesn't suffer it's own share of such failings, whether it be to a higher or lesser degree. It may come as shock to some but yes, people in England also have hobbies, enjoy sports, enjoy socialising in a mature way, have jobs, love their families, live within the law, take an interest in their children's education and also enjoy life SHOCK HORROR And as for British Culture being based on American TV - only an observer really could make such an ass of an assumption. Again, stop trying to judge an entire nation on what the media feeds to you.
For people who are looking for something that England cannot offer them then I say sure, go ahead and find what/where makes you happy, it's your right but it would be naive to think anywhere in the world is problem free.
Bits of it are rural and yes i suppose you could say that they are like the 60s. Its quite patchy the way that i saw it some are quite modern with a good standard of living. Some areas have quite a low level of facilitys. I suppose it depends on your expectations. Of course moving to an area with 2 live volcanos and lots of earthquakes has its own issues.
I dont like going to london as i find it intimidating and dirty, i remember having moved to cambridge and going to visit my parents in london a few months later spotting the rats running around which i suppse i had ignored before.
Groups of youths have never intimitated me before but as i get older this is changing.
In terms of money in NZ there is a lower cost of living but salarys are low as well. The cost of housing are also low. And moving to nz dpes mean that you lose your foothold on the property lader so it does make comming back more of an uphill climb.
I would not mind france but would not like to live in spain, there are 2 many horror stories about land grabbing. Not that i want to put anyone off, these are life changing decisions.
Exactly Cambourne re NZ. Like SavageBlue says - we do believe a lot of what we are fed by the press.
Twinkletoes
I can't say much about Europe as I mostly disappear up into the mountains as fast as poss ( age and decrepitude aside), but I have in the course of my lift spent quite a bit of time living in other countries less well off than Britain & for that reason, I belive that while it 'ain't perfect, it has such a lot going for it.
Uncontaminated water comes out of my taps, there is almost always electricity behind the switch, I've never had to skirt round corpses in the road and touch wood, not been mugged here, but if I ever was, I'd be able to contact the police without fear of "disappearing".
( ok, I'd like a place in the mountains in Spain, but I'd still live here)
there is of course the other problem with the hole in the ozone layer eak!!
on the good side
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071003/tsc-environment-ozone-b1f5339_1.html
Thanks for all your replies.
It is really interesting to see everyone's opinion. You are a great bunch ;D
cj :)
Quote from: RosieMcPosie on October 03, 2007, 14:15:49
pls dont forget little maddie got abducted/killed... whatever... in portugal.
Afraid child abduction is very common in EVERY country, just that the extreme publicity points the finger at Portugal! do a google for missing kids worldwide
Anyway back to Spain, I live a country life and a city life due to falling in love with a farmhouse nearly 2 hours away drive away from my busy job! so I stay overnight in Malaga two nights a week (love both!) Spain is a wonderful country to live in, but if you need to work your options are limited! sadly so many ex pats think they will make their millions opening a bar here, but in under a year they return to the UK! If you have enough dosh to live on you'll be fine!
One problem that worries me is climate change, I think the south will dry up, who knows when, but it's one thing to bear in mind!
There are some wonderful country properties out there, as much as I love the UK I don't think I'll be back there to live...............
I visited the north of Spain, Santander area and thought it was lovely. Very green. I suppose this means that it wont have to worry as much about climate change.
The drivers were very courteous, totally different to how I had expected. However, when we got near to Bilbao, the drivers were much more 'mad'. It was like a different world. If there is that much difference in the driving over a relatively small distance, then it must be difficult to get the idea of a specific area when reading up about a country.
Is it right that 'land grabbing' is going to be made illegal soon? That is something I would worry about if I chose Spain, as I would be looking for a property with land.
cj :)
Not heard anything about 'land grabbing' We're looking into our next move which could be Galicia or Asturias do a google, cheaper there and also mush better for gardeneing! We're spending crinbo there, will tell you how we get on....................
QuoteWe're spending crinbo there, will tell you how we get on....................
That wil be great, thanks
cj :)
Quote from: Biscombe on October 03, 2007, 22:24:33
Quote from: RosieMcPosie on October 03, 2007, 14:15:49
pls dont forget little maddie got abducted/killed... whatever... in portugal.
Afraid child abduction is very common in EVERY country,
No it's not! All things are relative, and of course it's very distressing when it happens. But it is not "very common" compared to the many other horrible ways you can lose a child. Completely agree that it's ridiculous to say Portugal is any worse than anywhere else.
ollie, just to make myself clear, i wasnt saying portugal is worse. i'm aware that children go missing all over the world- but i don't think it's 'very common' anywhere...
i just really don't think the uk is much worse than anywhere else in europe!
I agree RosieMc. And despite my view that all things are relative, just the thought of something like that happening to my little angle makes me feel sick.
I just looked up some comparative figures. In round numbers, the probability of being the victim of crime in the UK in any one year is 10%. For the EU as a whole, 7%. For Spain, 5%.
Obviously the statistics will be influenced by local laws and regulations, but that seems to me to be a sufficient spread of numbers to show beyond doubt that Britain suffers comparatively highly from criminal behaviour.