Hi
I'm a full time carer and moderator on a carer forum.
We've started an e-petition to ask for an allowance for pensioners on low incomes to eat a more healthy diet to include more fresh fruit and vegetables, something that sadly gets overlooked with soaring fuel bills and other living expenses. The Government are currently introducing an allowance of £200 for pregnant women to improve their diet, we feel pensioners should be given the same opportunity.
Age Concern are running a campaign looking at malnutrition in elderly patients in hospital, not only through poor food but the inability of the staff to help vulnerable patients to feed themselves, something I saw first hand a few weeks ago when my Mum, who is blind, had a brief hospital stay - if I hadn't insisted on going to feed her at mealtimes she would have starved.
The link to the petition is:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/freshfruitveg/
We are currently at 192 signatures in just under 2 weeks (it runs for a year), once over 200 we are guaranteed a response from No. 10 which will help bring our idea to fruitition. The petition is open to UK residents and ex-pats.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope you can support us in this worthy cause.
Paula - National Carers Forum
http://tonyrhodes.f.xaviermedia.com/
done ;D
I think that the older generation who have fought for us etc etc are far more deserving than younger one's who have done bugger all!!
;D
Quote from: SnooziSuzi on September 24, 2007, 22:04:24
done ;D
I think that the older generation who have fought for us etc etc are far more deserving than younger one's who have done bugger all!!
;D
It's the younger ones who need the nourishment, they will be saving for their old age, not waiting for handouts. I do not qualify for most freebies as I have a private pension, which is taxed, why should my taxes pay for somebody`who could not be bothered. I do get £200 a year for heating which I usually spend on gin, so I suppose a few lemons would not go amiss.
Thank you for your support, we're now up to 197 signatures ;)
Paula xx
My niece has recently started a business cooking and delivering fresh meals to pensioners in her area (Glastonbury). I'm sure she would be interested in this.
Hi Maggie
Any help with the petition would be wonderful, thank you.
Does your niece have a website address, we could put it on our carer forum.
Paula xx
Thanks Paula, will phone her tonight, (I have emailed, but phone ensures a reply ::)).
No problem Maggie, it's a fantastic idea for a business and if we can help promote it through our site then we will ;D
Paula xx
Done Paula,
But for the grace of God go I,
Nobody knows whats in front of them.
Although I agree 100% with the sentiments, I do not sign any petitions that have not had the wording thought out properly.
If you're presenting something to the government in order to request, or demand, some response or action, I suggest that the grammar, spelling and punctuation are acceptable.
Thank you so much Scotch-Mist, I do appreciate you taking the time to sign (love the pic, I adore Freddie's music ;))
Sprinkle, I'm sorry you feel unable to sign purely because of the wording of the petition. I do agree that presentation is important but as you can see by the volume of support we have for this campaign in such a short space of time, what really matters is the health and welfare of the elderly not whether the grammar is correct. Thank you for taking the time to read my request and for your comments.
Paula
Quote from: PaulaH on September 26, 2007, 11:19:55
...what really matters is the health and welfare of the elderly not whether the grammar is correct...
Paula
Absolutely.
And if you can't even be bothered to take the time to write the thing in an acceptable manner, why should anyone be bothered to support you?
If you haven't had the education that allows you to communicate effectively, then, for such an important issue, why not get someone who has?
PaulaH although i agree entirely with the sentiment I resent the remark that hospital staff have the inablility to help vulnerable patients, where this may be true of some wards you cannot make such a sweeping statement. As a nurse on an acute stroke ward with 30 patients our patients are given every help and encouragement to assist them. We have proper dining facilities, adapted cutlery, a range of meals and a variety of consistencies for people with varying swallowing problems ranging from mousse consistency to normal. We work closely with dieticians and speech and language therapists, we spend a lot of time on oral hygiene for our patients and always have on offer supplements in the form of soups, milkshakes, fruit juices, puddings etc etc, we weigh our patients regularly to monitor them and keep food and fluid input charts. We allow patients to eat what they would like, and many will eat 2 or 3 puddings and little else that is their choice. we encourage patients relatives to help out at meal times if this is the patients wish unless it would be detrimental to them.
Im sorry I will get off my soap box now but I am extremely proud of the staff on my ward and what they do please dont disregard us with a sweeping statement or tar us all with the same brush. Im sure you must be aware of how difficult it can be to encourage someone to eat if they are not inclined to do so.
I’m sure the petition is well-meant, but I won’t be signing it either, and not because it’s illiterate.
There are three problems. Presumably what is envisaged is a sort of Luncheon Voucher scheme, exchangeable for foods that the FSA or some similar body regards as “healthyâ€, and redeemable from the government, perhaps via HMRC or the Post Office. The costs of such a scheme would be disproportionate. It would hardly cost less than £5 to administer each voucher. And each voucher would be worth what? A pound? More? A fiver at the most. So at best, the admin costs would consume half the budget, and it might be much more.
Second, the abuses of the scheme simply wouldn’t be preventable. Like Luncheon Vouchers, there’d be a trade in them. “Don’t want to be force-fed kale, luv? I’ll buy your twenty quid’s worth of vouchers for a tenner. Or would you prefer a bottle of healthy vodka, or some smuggled ciggies?†And many shopkeepers would turn a blind eye to the rules. “Raspberry cheesecake? Don’t see why not. It’s got raspberries â€" part of your 5-a-day, innit?â€
Third, and the killer reason, IMO, is that healthy food isn’t more expensive. It’s cheaper. This is a conundrum that has perplexed do-gooders since the nineteenth century. Why do poor people waste their little money on unhealthy treats? Back then it might have been tea and baccy. Now it’s cake, crisps, and ready meals. The answer lies in social factors rather than economic ones.
But don’t tell Gordon Brown, especially the third reason. He might cut pensions as an enabler of healthy eating, or better still, impose an old people’s tax on processed foods. That would indeed be a tax incentive. Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Quote from: debster on September 26, 2007, 12:17:01
PaulaH although i agree entirely with the sentiment I resent the remark that hospital staff have the inablility to help vulnerable patients, where this may be true of some wards you cannot make such a sweeping statement. As a nurse on an acute stroke ward with 30 patients our patients are given every help and encouragement to assist them. We have proper dining facilities, adapted cutlery, a range of meals and a variety of consistencies for people with varying swallowing problems ranging from mousse consistency to normal. We work closely with dieticians and speech and language therapists, we spend a lot of time on oral hygiene for our patients and always have on offer supplements in the form of soups, milkshakes, fruit juices, puddings etc etc, we weigh our patients regularly to monitor them and keep food and fluid input charts. We allow patients to eat what they would like, and many will eat 2 or 3 puddings and little else that is their choice. we encourage patients relatives to help out at meal times if this is the patients wish unless it would be detrimental to them.
Im sorry I will get off my soap box now but I am extremely proud of the staff on my ward and what they do please dont disregard us with a sweeping statement or tar us all with the same brush. Im sure you must be aware of how difficult it can be to encourage someone to eat if they are not inclined to do so.
Debster, I appreciate your comments and I am sorry if you felt I was tarring all hospitals with the same brush but I have seen for myself just how SOME hospitals treat their elderly patients.
As I said my Mum who is 86 and almost blind was admitted as an emergency a few weeks ago, I was very concerned about her not being able to feed herself and despite being told she would be helped I insisted on going in at mealtimes.
The staff on this particular elderly ward literally left the patients to their own devices, every bed had to be helped by visitors despite asking staff for help, they were either too busy, or I hate to say this, couldn't be bothered to help. My sister had to help one lady who had no visitors because she couldn't feed herself.
I can see that your ward obviously has the patients welfare at heart and I applaude you and your staff for that, unfortunately - as the Age Concern campaign is also highlighting - that isn't the case throughout the NHS whether that is down to budgets or staff training is unclear but I won't apologise for highlighting the shortfall in care that some hospitals provide for the elderly and vulnerable.
Thank you for your comments
Paula
Quote from: Sprinkle on September 26, 2007, 11:37:29
Quote from: PaulaH on September 26, 2007, 11:19:55
...what really matters is the health and welfare of the elderly not whether the grammar is correct...
Paula
Absolutely.
And if you can't even be bothered to take the time to write the thing in an acceptable manner, why should anyone be bothered to support you?
If you haven't had the education that allows you to communicate effectively, then, for such an important issue, why not get someone who has?
:o :o :o How rude. Normally I would ignore a reply like this but I feel strongly that this is a valid petition and content is more important than grammar.
Quote from: Emagggie on September 26, 2007, 12:31:31
Quote from: Sprinkle on September 26, 2007, 11:37:29
Quote from: PaulaH on September 26, 2007, 11:19:55
...what really matters is the health and welfare of the elderly not whether the grammar is correct...
Paula
Absolutely.
And if you can't even be bothered to take the time to write the thing in an acceptable manner, why should anyone be bothered to support you?
If you haven't had the education that allows you to communicate effectively, then, for such an important issue, why not get someone who has?
:o :o :o How rude. Normally I would ignore a reply like this but I feel strongly that this is a valid petition and content is more important than grammar.
Thank you Maggie, the writer of the petition is an ex-carer, he nursed his Mum for over 20 years until she died last year of lung cancer. His spelling and grammar might not be perfect but his heart's in the right place - plus he's my partner ;)
Paula xx
Quote from: Melbourne12 on September 26, 2007, 12:19:30
I’m sure the petition is well-meant, but I won’t be signing it either, and not because it’s illiterate.
There are three problems. Presumably what is envisaged is a sort of Luncheon Voucher scheme, exchangeable for foods that the FSA or some similar body regards as “healthyâ€, and redeemable from the government, perhaps via HMRC or the Post Office. The costs of such a scheme would be disproportionate. It would hardly cost less than £5 to administer each voucher. And each voucher would be worth what? A pound? More? A fiver at the most. So at best, the admin costs would consume half the budget, and it might be much more.
Second, the abuses of the scheme simply wouldn’t be preventable. Like Luncheon Vouchers, there’d be a trade in them. “Don’t want to be force-fed kale, luv? I’ll buy your twenty quid’s worth of vouchers for a tenner. Or would you prefer a bottle of healthy vodka, or some smuggled ciggies?†And many shopkeepers would turn a blind eye to the rules. “Raspberry cheesecake? Don’t see why not. It’s got raspberries â€" part of your 5-a-day, innit?â€
Third, and the killer reason, IMO, is that healthy food isn’t more expensive. It’s cheaper. This is a conundrum that has perplexed do-gooders since the nineteenth century. Why do poor people waste their little money on unhealthy treats? Back then it might have been tea and baccy. Now it’s cake, crisps, and ready meals. The answer lies in social factors rather than economic ones.
But don’t tell Gordon Brown, especially the third reason. He might cut pensions as an enabler of healthy eating, or better still, impose an old people’s tax on processed foods. That would indeed be a tax incentive. Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Thank you for your comments, I agree that all schemes are open to some sort of abuse - even ' fake' disabled badges are being sold on Ebay now to avoid paying the congestion charge in London (how low will people stoop these days!).
All we can do is try and improve the health and diet of elderly people in whatever way we can, that's not too much to ask is it?
Paula xx
point taken Paul however all you had to put was some staff have the inability to help but im probably also being picky but working in the environment i also appreciate how difficult it can be to allocate resources and i am also honest enough to admit there are people who dont care
another thought i had is that would some of the elderly be bothered to cook fresh veg etc for themselves they can become very apathetic when living alone
.....and hopefully that is where people like my niece come in. Her business is doing well as the word goes round. It started when her Grandma had a fall and broke her leg. When she was sent home from recuperation she had meals on wheels but she just craved a fresh home cooked meal.
and very good luck to her but what would help in addition to the lovely fresh meals some company to eat with would i feel would probably do them as much good too
i link al pencioners hould get a alowanse for ectra flood,pencioners do so muckh for these cuntry, ther war yeers and the sakrifice thay mayd, shurly we kan geve themm sum xtra flood, i four on wil bee sining the epetcsion.
frank farmer (oxford university)
Melbourne - I can hear Gordon Brown's advisers saying to him, "there's this petition that a lot of people have signed. We'd really like their votes, but there's a couple of commas in the wrong place so sadly we have to wave their votes goodbye and continue to allow old people to be malnourished".
Sorry, but the English isn't all that bad. I've seen plenty worse.
I've signed it because I think basic nourishment should be a right, not a privilege.
Thank you Frank & Ollie for your support - we are now up to 208 signatures.
Paula xx
I do apreciate what you are doing, but extra money would not encourage my parents to eat better.
The typical shopping trolley of my parents includes biscuits, cakes, those desert pots that try to pass themselves off as yoghurts, sweets (mum alone eats 56 twix bars a week :o). Most meals are fried and they always add tonnes of salt and sugar to everything.
I can't help them, they heard on TV that yoghurts are good for them, so now they have 2 a day of the ones that contain around 7tsps sugar per pot! Chocolate bars are good for energy, thats why Mum eats all those twix! They need to eat something wth their tablets, so mum has a couple of biscuits as they are handy first thing in the morning or before she goes to bed. Cereals are good for you, Special K helps you loose weight, so Mum eats 2 massive bowls of them coated in sugar for breakfast! Apparently if they cut down their salt and sugar they get stomach aches, so it must be bad for you to cut it out! Also nuts, yes, nuts are good for you in moderation, but they eat loads of the salted roasted ones - it's their protein!!
They did try meals on wheels and anotehr home delivery company, but didn't like the food!! Apparently they were trying to poison them!
Okay, I know that a lot of elderley people would appreciate the money, but they do need to be educated in eating healthily, how can you go about that!
ray's mum's the same, they have plenty of money and still make stew with corned beef, eat cream cakes for tea and have dried milk..white bread, doesn't matter what we say, they've got to 89 years of age and feel they should be able to eat what they want, anyone want to argue with that logic ? ;D
My grandmother spent years living on tea and toast because she didn't have enough money to eat properly.
By the time she did have enough money her stomach had shrunk so much she wasn't able to eat properly. (the doctors words, not mine)
When she died the doctor put Heart attack as the cause of death, but told my mother that it was caused by years of malnutrition.
Incidentally she worked all her days
My Mum is the opposite, she does like the odd cream cake but she does like her fruit and vegetables - she won't have sugar in her tea (I can't manage without!) although she does like white bread. At 86 I don't want to restrict what she eats, it's up to her.
Scotch-Mist, that is so sad about your grandmother, Mum's aunt was the same, she lived on biscuits - we're hoping this petition will help people in the same situation as your grandmother if we can drum up enough support to make the Government listen.
Paula xx
I wish you all the best with your petition,
your heart is in the right place.
But..........dont be surprised if the government don't listen.
They rarely do ! >:(
I know Scotch Mist but we can but try ;)
Paula xx
Quote from: OllieC on September 26, 2007, 18:50:32
Melbourne - I can hear Gordon Brown's advisers saying to him, "there's this petition that a lot of people have signed. We'd really like their votes, but there's a couple of commas in the wrong place so sadly we have to wave their votes goodbye and continue to allow old people to be malnourished".
Sorry, but the English isn't all that bad. I've seen plenty worse.
I've signed it because I think basic nourishment should be a right, not a privilege.
Eh? It was Sprinkle, not I, who objected to the poor literary style. Indeed, I explicitly excluded such a trivial reason for not signing.
I assume that Frank Farmer's post was also a commentary on the grammar.
But not mine.
Hehehe - sorry Mel, I wrote things a bit wrongly! I shall go'n prescribe a brief yet heartfelt beating to myself. And I'm sorry for the mistaken identity.
My uncle had Downs Syndrome, he died of Malnutrition, he lived in a home for disabled people. I couldn't believe that in this day and age, in a care home, that someone could die of malnutrition!
Ho yes. My friend of 86 has been in a local 'nursing' home for 2 months now. She isn't easy to feed but rice krispies for her evening meal? She is not encouraged to eat in the dining area and so stays in her room and eats next to nothing.
What with that and other atrocities her son-in-law and I are looking for somewhere more suitable.
My Mum was a poor eater as well. I think when they get 'up in years' a bit, they dont really care what they eat as long as its something. Muller Rice and fruit salad every day was one of her favourites. She did enjoy me making her Tripe and also Kedgeree once a week. She ate loads of Murray Mints and had to have a chocolate eclair each tea time. Now, my late Mother in law just lived off Cup a Soups. When she died I took about 20 boxes of them from her cupboard, also coffee and whisky. I removed about 10 bottles of whisky - plus the rest. :) :) :)
Just a quick update - we're up to 217 signatures (despite the odd misplaced comma :o ;)) - we even have a Council member of the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health.
Paula xx
I should be grateful for a bit of clarification about what this petition is all about.
Oh and I are pensioners, and we eat very healthily. We grow most of our own fruit and veg, and only buy locally produced meat.
Would my understanding be correct insofar as you are asking for government subsidy for the indolent pensioners who have not saved to fund their old age.
If I am correct in my assumption, you can stick your petition where the sun doesn't shine. Why should the hard working, saving pensioners subsidise the profligate?
valmarg
Quote from: valmarg on September 28, 2007, 21:18:44
I should be grateful for a bit of clarification about what this petition is all about.
Oh and I are pensioners, and we eat very healthily. We grow most of our own fruit and veg, and only buy locally produced meat.
Would my understanding be correct insofar as you are asking for government subsidy for the indolent pensioners who have not saved to fund their old age.
If I am correct in my assumption, you can stick your petition where the sun doesn't shine. Why should the hard working, saving pensioners subsidise the profligate?
valmarg
I am pleased to see that you and your OH are in a position to be able to grow your own vegetables, obviously you do have a healthy diet.
Unfortunately some pensioners do not, not because they haven't been bothered to save for their own age - sadly not every pensioner has been able to make adequate provision to cope with today's high cost of living - many either didn't work in order to raise a family or in some cases lost out on their occupational pensions through no fault of their own and are now struggling to make ends meet.
I appreciate you don't approve of the concept of this petition but I thank you for your comments.
Paula
Paulah, regardless if we agree or disagree with the petition I for one would like to applaud the polite way in which you have answered posts on this subject.
Lorna
Thank you so much Lorna
My rule of thumb for posting on forums is never to say anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person face to face.
Paula xx
Quote from: PaulaH on September 29, 2007, 10:51:35
Thank you so much Lorna
My rule of thumb for posting on forums is never to say anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person face to face.
Paula xx
Hear hear to Lorna's post. You have been very polite about the criticisms.
It would be good if you could also answer some of them, though (and I'm not talking about the use of English).
Quote from: lorna on September 29, 2007, 09:37:49
Paulah, regardless if we agree or disagree with the petition I for one would like to applaud the polite way in which you have answered posts on this subject.
Lorna
I agree, Lorna. PaulaH you have managed to remain polite and gracious when others have not. Good for you.
I have signed because I don't give a flying fig about the politics of it, as a decent human being who is comfortably off, I choose not to ignore but to help in any little way I can. Vive Le Revolution! ;D ;D
Quote from: SavageBlue on September 29, 2007, 13:46:53
Quote from: lorna on September 29, 2007, 09:37:49
Paulah, regardless if we agree or disagree with the petition I for one would like to applaud the polite way in which you have answered posts on this subject.
Lorna
I agree, Lorna. PaulaH you have managed to remain polite and gracious when others have not. Good for you.
I have signed because I don't give a flying fig about the politics of it, as a decent human being who is comfortably off, I choose not to ignore but to help in any little way I can. Vive Le Revolution! ;D ;D
Thank you so much SavageBlue ;)
Paula xx
Quote from: Melbourne12 on September 29, 2007, 12:36:19
Quote from: PaulaH on September 29, 2007, 10:51:35
Thank you so much Lorna
My rule of thumb for posting on forums is never to say anything I wouldn't be comfortable saying to that person face to face.
Paula xx
Hear hear to Lorna's post. You have been very polite about the criticisms.
It would be good if you could also answer some of them, though (and I'm not talking about the use of English).
Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?
As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.
Paula xx
How very rude some people are , you know who you are.
How fortunate that you are able to eat & be able to buy what is good for you just give some respect to people who cannot provide for there senior years have you ever heard of ,
There but for the grace of God go i.
Quote from: PaulaH on September 29, 2007, 16:35:32
...
Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?
As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.
Paula xx
I guess you've now answered my main question. I cannot for the life of me work out an acceptable process to achieve your (undoubtedly worthy) objectives. Presumably, neither can you.
I just have one area of doubt. Why, when fresh fruit and veg are so much cheaper than processed and packaged food, do you believe that more money will solve your perceived problem?
It's a good point Melbourne. Lots of younger people can't cook & many people on low incomes waste a fortune on processed stuff. But surely most people over the age of er, probably 50? grew up before processed food existed. So is this mainly about people in care, or is it to educate people to keep an eye on the diet of others?
Often a culture change is needed, rather than lots of cash.
Valmarg - out of interest, do you really think that everyone with a low income or low savings deserves their lot, or are you being a bit flippant? Personally I am very fortunate, and have a good quality of life, with enough money to not have to worry too much. But I really don't work all that hard, and never have and don't really intend to. I know people with less money who work a lot harder. I don't think people get what is "fair" very often.
where we live, the only place for 5 miles where people can buy fruit and veg and meat,( mainly thinking of people who can't get around or carry stuff ) is Netto or the late shop !! ???
the nearest farmer's market is the same distance on the first saturday in the month :(
I really can't stand people who assume that all elderly people have squandered their 'spare' income throughout their working lives.
My father was born with a physical disability which affected much of school days, consiquently he was doomed to a working life of low paid menial work. The knock-on to this was my elder brother and myself had to leave school at 15 'to bring some money in.' My first job (a long bus ride and a walk of a mile each way)paid £3:10s a week for 40 hours...the basic hourly rate these days is well over that and please don't tell me that that weekly wage compares favourably in today's terms. I managed to improve my lot with a second job to pay for night and correspondence study. I also spent 12 years in the forces, 5 of them on active service with the scras to prove it...I consider my lucky when I see how my mother ( who also had a crappy start in life) sometimes struggles...she's 85 now and stopped working this Easter!
So, just how did people without an inflation proof occupational pension (never even heard of such a thing until I turned 40!) were supposed to 'invest' for their future is beyond me. If you are one of those lucky people who landed a job with these benefits...good on you, you really never did have it so good..but don't you dare look down your nose at the likes of me, my siblings and my parents and tell us what we should have done in rediness for our old age! Enjoy your sherry and slippers.
I'm off to sign!
Quote from: rosebud on September 29, 2007, 17:25:43
How very rude some people are , you know who you are.
How fortunate that you are able to eat & be able to buy what is good for you just give some respect to people who cannot provide for there senior years have you ever heard of ,
There but for the grace of God go i.
Thank you for your support Rosebud.
Paula xx
Quote from: Melbourne12 on September 29, 2007, 18:54:03
Quote from: PaulaH on September 29, 2007, 16:35:32
...
Sorry Melbourne12, what is it you think I've failed to answer?
As you said in your previous post there is a lot to think about should we get this approved - right now the details of implementing the scheme are something, as a carer group, we'd look to work with our MP's to find a workable way to get this extra money/vouchers to the people who need it most.
Paula xx
I guess you've now answered my main question. I cannot for the life of me work out an acceptable process to achieve your (undoubtedly worthy) objectives. Presumably, neither can you.
I just have one area of doubt. Why, when fresh fruit and veg are so much cheaper than processed and packaged food, do you believe that more money will solve your perceived problem?
Well, thanks for keeping me on my toes Melbourne12, it's nice to have a debate on something so important.
I'm a carer although my background is office management but the workings of our Government and their mysterious departments are new to me - as they are most people.
I would never say I have all the answers as to how this would work, the first step is to get support for this idea - it's then down to convincing the powers that be that a) there is a need for this allowance and b) how it would reach the people who need it - yes I know there are a lot of hurdles to cross before we get there but we are trying instead of sitting on our hands and watching elderly people die of malnutrition.
As for your comments on fruit and veg being cheaper than processed food, I wouldn't agree with that at all especially in winter months which is when the elderly need those extra vitamins from fruit and veg especially if we do have a harsh winter, at least if they do have this allowance they have a chance of a better diet, that's all we're asking.
Paula xx
Quote from: kenkew on September 29, 2007, 20:10:30
I really can't stand people who assume that all elderly people have squandered their 'spare' income throughout their working lives.
My father was born with a physical disability which affected much of school days, consiquently he was doomed to a working life of low paid menial work. The knock-on to this was my elder brother and myself had to leave school at 15 'to bring some money in.' My first job (a long bus ride and a walk of a mile each way)paid £3:10s a week for 40 hours...the basic hourly rate these days is well over that and please don't tell me that that weekly wage compares favourably in today's terms. I managed to improve my lot with a second job to pay for night and correspondence study. I also spent 12 years in the forces, 5 of them on active service with the scras to prove it...I consider my lucky when I see how my mother ( who also had a crappy start in life) sometimes struggles...she's 85 now and stopped working this Easter!
So, just how did people without an inflation proof occupational pension (never even heard of such a thing until I turned 40!) were supposed to 'invest' for their future is beyond me. If you are one of those lucky people who landed a job with these benefits...good on you, you really never did have it so good..but don't you dare look down your nose at the likes of me, my siblings and my parents and tell us what we should have done in rediness for our old age! Enjoy your sherry and slippers.
I'm off to sign!
Well said Kenkew and thank you so much for your support.
Paula xx
All right, I know who you mean. I did not mean to be quite so rude as it turned out I was, and yes I will put my hand up to being a bit bitter and twisted.
OH was compulsorily made redundant aged 57, a matter of a few months short of being eligible for the JCB company's early retirement scheme.
Purely to survive he had to start drawing his company pension when he was 58, thereby losing 4% per annum for being drawn early. His pension is less than I was earning 20 years ago, and after 27 years of service it is criminal. So please don't preach about lost pensions!!
I have tried to get work at the local supermarkets, but to no avail. The last job I had was as secretary/PA to the Director of Personnel Services, Bass plc
He has been unable (at his age) to get an equivalent job. For a few years he has managed to get seasonal work at Alton Towers, but this year they have cut back on local employees in favour of eastern europeans at a much lower hourly rate.
On our joint annual income we would be eligible for Gordon Browns means tested benefits, BUT, we have a few quid in savings.
Sorry if I was offensive, but as I said, I do get a bit bitter and twisted about our situation, which is through no fault of our own!!
valmarg
I am affraid i am not so generous as PaulaH in forgiving those of you who are so snotty nosed about other peoples situations, pensioners, some who are fortunate enough to have good finances in place are very lucky, yes i say lucky, because there but for the grace of god go i, that does not mean one cannot have empathy for those less fortunate than ourselves.
Last winter thirty five thousand OAPs died of the cold and malnutrition in england, they died alone in cold dark dank homes, to all those of you who have no empathy for those poor soles, i say shame on you, lets hope for what any reason you do not loose all you have because of something out of your control and have to rely on the kindness of others, this is what i think of all you people
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/bb0000077/peeing-man.gif)
And to all those others who have signed the e-petition, good on you,have a nice weekend, god bless to you.
Frank Farmer
And there was me thinking I was the one being ostracised , but having seen frank farmer's piss artist, I wonder which of us is the worst!!!
valmarg
Ken , i support everthing you say well done for saying it in such a dignified way.
Frank Farmer there is no need to put your point across in such a very rude manner, you spoiled everthing you said by putting that childish ending such a shame after what you said.
Valmarg, you were gracious in your apology to Paula. sorry to hear of what happened try not to let it make you bitter. I had to give up work i year before retirement due to unstable angina, but that's one of life`s blows at least i do not have to go hungry & would make sure that if i knew of anyone that did i would make sure they had a good meal & never to lonely. bless us all who are comfortable & those who are not .Now i think all the squabling should cease we are loosing the point of this thread. Rosebud.
Quote from: valmarg on September 29, 2007, 21:30:37
All right, I know who you mean. I did not mean to be quite so rude as it turned out I was, and yes I will put my hand up to being a bit bitter and twisted.
OH was compulsorily made redundant aged 57, a matter of a few months short of being eligible for the JCB company's early retirement scheme.
Purely to survive he had to start drawing his company pension when he was 58, thereby losing 4% per annum for being drawn early. His pension is less than I was earning 20 years ago, and after 27 years of service it is criminal. So please don't preach about lost pensions!!
I have tried to get work at the local supermarkets, but to no avail. The last job I had was as secretary/PA to the Director of Personnel Services, Bass plc
He has been unable (at his age) to get an equivalent job. For a few years he has managed to get seasonal work at Alton Towers, but this year they have cut back on local employees in favour of eastern europeans at a much lower hourly rate.
On our joint annual income we would be eligible for Gordon Browns means tested benefits, BUT, we have a few quid in savings.
Sorry if I was offensive, but as I said, I do get a bit bitter and twisted about our situation, which is through no fault of our own!!
valmarg
Valmarg I do understand your situation.
I had to leave work 6 years ago to look after Mum full time, I'd managed the previous 15 working but her health deteriorated quickly and I had to make the decision - unfortunately all my company could offer me was a 'two year unpaid career break' which quite frankly was about as much use as a chocolate teapot! Some colleagues were given redundancy which would have given me a reasonable lump sum after 13 years service but my post wasn't one of them, sadly so I went from earning £22k a year as an office manager to £48.65 carers allowance, quite a steep learning curve, I can tell you.
I'm fortunate to have found support through carer forums and a very loving partner who I'm working with not only on this e-petition but we also campaign for carers rights which is another issue the Government need to look at urgently - carers save the Government £57b a year in social care, we've got an aging population and the care service just can't cope with it - god only know what'll happen when I get to retirement age, I dread to think what my frozen occupational pension will be worth, sod all probably!
Paula xx
Quote from: frank farmer on September 29, 2007, 21:51:44
I am affraid i am not so generous as PaulaH in forgiving those of you who are so snotty nosed about other peoples situations, pensioners, some who are fortunate enough to have good finances in place are very lucky, yes i say lucky, because there but for the grace of god go i, that does not mean one cannot have empathy for those less fortunate than ourselves.
Last winter thirty five thousand OAPs died of the cold and malnutrition in england, they died alone in cold dark dank homes, to all those of you who have no empathy for those poor soles, i say shame on you, lets hope for what any reason you do not loose all you have because of something out of your control and have to rely on the kindness of others, this is what i think of all you people
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/bb0000077/peeing-man.gif)
And to all those others who have signed the e-petition, good on you,have a nice weekend, god bless to you.
Frank Farmer
Thank you for your support Frank, you are right - so many elderly people do suffer in terrible conditions especially during the winter months, sadly the communities that used to check on their elderly neighbours (I remember going round with Mum checking on 'aunties' as a child) have gone - we can't allow people who have given so much to society to end their days in cold and poverty.
Interesting way of watering your garden Frank, I prefer to use a rainwater butt ;)
Paula xx
Some of the somewhat controversial comments are understandable. How many of us know people claiming dole money, child benefit and various allowances issued for the good of the family, only to see it find it's way over the local bar or Bingo Hall or spent on gambling? I've certainly seen that happen many times while the kids end up with a bag of chips for tea. My father never ever went into a pub as I recall, neither of my parents ever took so much as a penny from the state and although being hard working people all their lives, they ended up with zero saving. My father died 2 months after retiring so he didn't even get the chance to put his feet up after working from the age of 14. But some of what has been stated does have a true basis.
I took some of the comments mentioned as being aimed at the situation of the likes of my family, and that was wrong. Part of my last piece was written without pausing for a couple of breaths before hand....for that I apologise, but I would defend to the end the right of elderly people to have at least the basic necessities at a time when they are most vulnerable.
Me thinks Paula has quite a task on her hands.
Ken.
Thank you PaulaH and Rosebud for your understanding. I'm not normally what the locals call a 'nangy old tart', but I do get a bit down in the dumps now and again, and I'm extremely sorry if I caused any offence.
valmarg
Let's just draw a line under the misunderstandings, tell you what Valmarg - you put the kettle on, we'll ask KenKew & Rosebud round and I'll bring the chocolate biscuits (no calories in cyber-biscuits!) ;)
Paula xx
my concerns re the implementing of this system is just that it is open to abuse, if you give them money many of them desperatly want to put something aside to leave for their family and will go without no matter how hard you try to persuade them. If a voucher system were put in place then that too is open to abuse cos unscrupulous relatives could just say oh nan you dont need that ill take it for the kiddies. the only true way you can implement it and know the right people are benefiting is to actually cook the meal and watch em eat it. as i said previously i agree with the idea just see some serious difficulties we put the food right in front of them on my ward encourage and help them where necessary but there are quite a large majourity you just cannot make eat it.
Quote from: debster on September 30, 2007, 22:33:22
my concerns re the implementing of this system is just that it is open to abuse, if you give them money many of them desperatly want to put something aside to leave for their family and will go without no matter how hard you try to persuade them. If a voucher system were put in place then that too is open to abuse cos unscrupulous relatives could just say oh nan you dont need that ill take it for the kiddies. the only true way you can implement it and know the right people are benefiting is to actually cook the meal and watch em eat it. as i said previously i agree with the idea just see some serious difficulties we put the food right in front of them on my ward encourage and help them where necessary but there are quite a large majourity you just cannot make eat it.
I entirely agree with this. We cooked one healthy meal a day for my mother for the last 15 years of her life. There was absolutely no point in taking her salad or fruit, and even less point in providing vegetables which needed cooking. When we visited the next week, they'd still be there rotting away. So instead we did frozen microwaveable meals. Plenty of variety, several months freezer life, and if we weren't there to supervise, someone else could since they were so easy to reheat.
But on a rough calculation to provide such a service, including supervision, would cost around £20 per day, based on local delivery and assuming a ready availability of part-time low-paid workers willing to take on such a job.
At the last count there were 9.7 million people in this country aged over 65, with approx half of those over 75. I'm going to assume a modest takeup of this initiative of 1.5 million people.
So the costs would be 1.5 million people times £20 a day times 360 days a year. That's £10.8 billion a year. :o
Now let's look at the voucher scheme. My best stab at this would be to issue vouchers for food and a further allowance for fuel to cook it. The food vouchers would be redeemable only through registered retailers, including those that offered home delivery. I'm going to guess at £50 a year fuel allowance, plus £10 a week food voucher, issued to everyone over 65. Each £10 voucher might have a handling charge for the retailer of £2. So direct costs would be just over £6.5 billion a year. Using a SWAG, I'm simply going to double that to take account of administrative costs. It certainly wouldn't be less. So that's £13 billion a year.
You could "target" the vouchers to limit them to the more deserving cases, but your admin costs would skyrocket.
These are ludicrous numbers. Wouldn't you rather simply put more money into the state pension? £13 billion would pay for over £25 a week increase. That's what we should really be lobbying for.
Quote from: debster on September 30, 2007, 22:33:22
many of them desperatly want to put something aside to leave for their family and will go without no matter how hard you try to persuade them.
Mother in law was like that. The only asset she had was her house. She was not very well off, but when equity release was suggested - she would not hear of it. She could have lived far more comfortably, but 'she wanted to leave something for her boys'.
valmarg
Signed........
Thank you so much Star - I love the cat photo!
We're now up to 234 signatures, our petition is 635 out of 8285 petitions on the website so that's not too bad in just over 3 weeks.
We're now hitting the MP's as they come back to Parliament next week, hopefully we'll get some extra support for the campaign.
Thanks again everyone for your comments and support.
Paula xx