being a wet day today I decided to sit down and sort out my veg plans and crop rotation for next year. i do this on a sheet of paper marked out with a plan of the veg plot. i can then write in what is going in each bed in the hope of getting some form of rotation going.
I have to say it has given me plenty of headaches this time around. I would love to set up a rotation plan and let it run for a few years, but somethink always changes each year to mess it up and demand a rethink. This could be a new type of veg or (like this time) the strawberry bed needs relocating. However after a lot of headscratching i think I have sorted it out.
It is always a good idea to get the following years plan sorted out the preceeding autumn as this makes placing overwintering crops much easier as well as knowing which beds need what treatment over the winter in preparation. There is nothing worse i find than either having a winter/spring crop still in situ where you want to plant something at a particular time in spring, or giving a particular bed the wrong or no preparation for a particular summer crop.
So how do you plan your veg? Do you have a proper rotation system going on?
i have to say that i am very much the same as you garden apprentice. i wish i had started my rotation in a rather more organised fashion but the first year i just grew things where they landed kind of thing and have been chasing my own tail ever since really. it takes some working out on paper and a lot of juggling. i would certainly advise any of our many newbies who have virgin plots to consider rotation carefully before they make the beds and plant out there overwintering stuff as it will save a lot of brain ache in the future. it seems so simple when you read about it but it can be a bit of a headache if you atart off wrong footed. maybe i worry about it too much and perhaps others dont find it such a bind?
With the sheer diversity of crops most of us (presumably) grow, I would find it almost impossible to stick to a rigid rotation plan. I always bear two things in mind: 1) our soil is not as intensively worked as that of agricultural land so strict rotation is not as important, and 2) whichever plan I choose to follow, I'll never know what would have happened if I'd followed the other one. I always start with good intentions but as ever:
"I'd have liked to plant these over there, but that is still in the ground so they'll have to go here. But no, there isn't enough room here so they'll have to go up there next to ... no, you can't plant these next to those so how about putting them over there. No, can't put them there because they're in the ground too long, and anyway that bed had these in last year, or was it...?"
But seriously GA, as we approach winter I think the psychological value of planning for next season is - er - valuable. And it's fun. Sometimes. Mostly, after the first flourish in spring, things are just planted where they will fit. Sarah you are not alone.
Geoff.
Must be something in the air, because I actually listed out what went in each bed today.
I'm luckier than most perhaps, because my plot is three distinct plots, so rotation is fairly easy. I try rotate potatos and brassicas in a different plot each year, and beans in a different part. Apart from that I'm not too worried. With a fairly small area, I doubt you can get enough distance to effectively shut out pests and diseases once they are in the soil.
I asked a question about rotation about a week ago, it's confusing isn't it :D
We split our plot into four beds as soon as we got it, laid paths between, and then sat back and thought, ooh eck, what do we do now?!
Our first year's been relatively easy as we've just followed our plan, but now it's getting more difficult!
We've just done a classic, and planted a load of overwintering brassicas in this years bed - doh! Ho hum, you live and learn, so they'll now be spending the winter with our overwintering onions (as it's next year's onion bed). It's easier with the stuff you put in early and harvest the same year, but all this overwintering has got me well confuddled ???
Personally, I think the fact that you're following a rotation plan at all is of benefit. I'm convincing myself that it's not essential to be too rigid with it - i.e. if things don't quite go exactly where you've planned it's not such a big deal. As long as you're not consistently growing the same family in the same place year after year we should be okay ;)
For most newbie plot holders it's not knowing what was grown where the last time it was used. I only found a couple of really small carrots and parsnips in one of the beds and loads of roots from old raspberry canes in another. Above the ground I only had some dwarf sunflowers, miniature roses and two strawberry plants. Nothing else to be seen to give me a clue.
I'm reading as much as I can before committing to what to plant where first.
I also find the pictures on other people's blogs very usefull too.
Lauren :)
Something to remember when planning your rotation;
If you use a bed system you can always plant out at the opposite end of the bed e.g. if you planted say brassicas at one end and potatoes at the other this year, you can reverse the procedure next season.
As my beds are around thirty foot long I practice this routine regularly.
I have to confess I am not always that strict wiht myself when it come s to sticking to the plan, especialy later on in the season after the main crops have been harvested and I have some space to fill.
This year once the contents had been harvested I turned my allium (onions and garlic) into a mixed 'square foot' bed, where i wasnt that strict as to the crop types going in together. Thus I put in things like spring onions, rocket, beetroot and chard into the same bed. Normaly these would not go together when grown on mass but I figured there wasnt enough of each type to cause problems for future crops.
Sometimes if I have something that needs to be planted but the space available doesnt fit with the rotation plan, I will risk it and plant anyway rather than waste the crop.
My beds too are big enough to split if I dont want a whole bed of any one thing. Thus with 5 whole beds I can divide them up and have 10 small ones if I wanted to. This does help and provide some flexibility and allows me to plant the same type of crop in the same bed 1 or 2 years apart as long as I put them in the other half of the bed.
At the end of the day as long as you dont grow something too frquently 9like every year) in the same patch of ground, you should be fine. Its only when you get or already have a crop specific problem in a particular part of the plot (like clubroot or white rot) that you really need to plan carefully.
I think it gives us all headaches sometimes Apprentice. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D
You are not a true lottie person until you have walked up and down, round and round, carrying a tray of plants looking for somewhere just to heel them in temporarily until more space is freed up.
Rotation is for farmers and fairground operators.
I get into that position every year. Every year I dig more ground, think I've cracked it at last, and every year it happens again.
I've tried to be organised and planned next years crops - as everyone else. Then I look at the plot and realise that I have loads of cabbages and brussels in the "wrong" place for me to get the autumn overwintering stuff in. Looks like a re-think coming on.....
Twinkletoes
Quote from: Eristic on September 27, 2007, 00:56:30
You are not a true lottie person until you have walked up and down, round and round, carrying a tray of plants looking for somewhere just to heel them in temporarily until more space is freed up.
Rotation is for farmers and fairground operators.
He he! Although i am more like that with ornamental plants more than edibles.
My problem, and I do not beleive there is a solution to it though I would appreciate any imput, is that as I grow very few "Roots" and even fewer "Brassicas" in relation to and "Others", which are considerable, so how do I fit that odd balance into a three bed rotation plan. In theory it would mean leaving large areas uncultivated each year, and that I could not afford to do. Talk about a headache!
I count chard as a root, I grow lettuce pretty much anywhere and take up some of my brassicas with runner beans. This gives me the bit of flexibility I need.
Crop rotation is the perceived wisdom of textbook gardeners and is considered the only way to operate. However, there is also the dedicated bed system operated by many showmen that can produce superior results.
Using the dedicated bed system, the same crops will be grown in their own bed year after year until deterioration sets in or diseases build up. This method allows growing conditions to be tailored to the exact requirements of the individual crops giving better yields. Strong healthy plants usually shrug off most pest and disease problems without much loss.
On the allotment I think it is more important to plant with the aim to free the entire patch at one time to enable easy preparation of the soil for any following crop.
i have a 6 bed plan (well, it's 7 beds really but no 7 is small and reserved for special things). i have 3 big rotation groups spread over my 6 beds, seemes to work fairly well.
the overwintering stuff and the summer stuff was a bit of a headache early on, but now in year 3 i seem to have the hang of it.
i always do mine in excel and just do a 'save as' for the following year and amend throughout the year as and when.
there are always some crops i really dont worry where they grow. i am only strict-ish with potatoes, toms, brassicas and onions/beans.
Quote from: allanwoolley on September 27, 2007, 10:21:54
My problem, and I do not beleive there is a solution to it though I would appreciate any imput, is that as I grow very few "Roots" and even fewer "Brassicas" in relation to and "Others", which are considerable, so how do I fit that odd balance into a three bed rotation plan. In theory it would mean leaving large areas uncultivated each year, and that I could not afford to do. Talk about a headache!
If you have a lot of 'others' that dont tend to fit in with any specific plant group or rotation, then either fit them in around the main rotation wherever you have space to put them, or make them into a rotation group of their own and grow them together to make 4th (or whatever) 'bed' in the rotation. Like I say as long as you dont grow something in the same spot 2 years running, then all will be well.
I am only going to have one or two beds for potatoes in my beds this year as i am also goig to have some potato boxes al la mikeb (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,24492.0.html)
the thing is with rotation is when does the year start and end, now is the obvious time but i,v got long term brassicas (psb kale and sprouts) left in the bed spuds will go in and spring greens ready to go in-----well they will have to go in where beans and sweetcorn were only it,s only just dug over, not ideal
i,v got 3 obvious sections which makes it hard to do a 4 year rotation
how do others manage
marg
Quote from: theothermarg on September 28, 2007, 20:59:15
the thing is with rotation is when does the year start and end, now is the obvious time but i,v got long term brassicas (psb kale and sprouts) left in the bed spuds will go in and spring greens ready to go in-----well they will have to go in where beans and sweetcorn were only it,s only just dug over, not ideal
i,v got 3 obvious sections which makes it hard to do a 4 year rotation
how do others manage
marg
Doesnt help does it when you have (for example) overwintering brassicas or alliums. Do you risk following them with a summer crop of the same type, or rotate on again for the summer? I had this problem with alliums this time around.
Last year I had my garlic overwintering in half of one bed, added my summer onions and shallots to the other half of the bed. Both were harvested by late summer leaving the bed clear. This year I planted my leeks after my early potatoes and left the other end for my garlic. Obviously the leeks will harvest first leaving the garlic as the only alluim in the bed for a few months.
Now what was I to do with the other half of the bed where the leeks grew? Where were the onions and shallots going to go. Should i risk onions where the leeks were, or start a second 'onion' bed? I decided on the latter. I will pu the summer onions and shallots elsewhere and put a 'neutral' crop such as salads or cucubits (courgetes or cucumbers) where the leeks were.
Rotation is about maintaining soil fertility as well as avoiding disease. If you grow the same crop in the same bed year after year its going to deplete a particular set of nutrients unless you can replace them. So in that respect if you are going to have semi-permanent crops best figure out what their food needs are and keep topping up the soil.
Most pests/diseases are family specific - so if you know what botanical family a crop is in, use that as your rotation guide. For example pests/diseases of spuds generally have no effect on beetroot or turnips - roots but in different families.
So its ok to grow root crops on the same plot each year, but not roots from the same family.
Just so happens that my software does checking by family for you 8)