Please can someone give me some advice. I'll try to be quick with the story, and anyone who feels mice are vermin, press the back button now...
Earlier in the day, I found the smallest mouse I've ever seen lying on the path to the allotments. I assumed it was dead, but as I went past I could see it was moving and breathing. Not knowing what I could do for it, if anything, I put it in a small container with some grass, leaves, blackberry, the inside of sunflower seeds and took it back home with me. It became quite lively and tried to leave the box a few times, which I let it, but on the lawn it didn't go anywhere. It moves very slowly for a mouse, I would say it is the size of one and a quarter blackberries. Anyway, I couldn't work out whether it was a new born or not, it never opened its eyes and seemed to walk around not able to see. New borns are born without fur though, aren't they? This one has fur, although I would say it is very young. Now we think it may be blind? It also keeps falling over.
Anyway, wondering if it was young, I took it back to the allotment in case its mum was around and it needed feeding. I left it with the container on its side and a bit of grass in it still. When I left, the mouse was not in the box but half a foot away on some dead leaves. It looked very vunerable, but what can you do.
Anyway, I left it and went home. Some hours later, with it still on my mind, I went back to have a look. To my surprise, it had found its way back to the box and when it heard me rumaging around a little bit, it poked its head out. There was a big fly sitting on it when I found it. I took the box back home, thinking that maybe if I let it rest for the night in the box out of the danger of the foxes that live around there then it might give it a fighting chance. On getting it home, we discovered that it was covered with fly eggs and spent the next hour or so with a paintbrush and a pair of tweezers removing them. I think I have them all out now, there must have been 50 or so. I know the flies know it's weak and most people on here would probably think I should have left it where it is... and naivity or whatever you want to call it, but I couldn't just heartlessly leave it there.
It's now in a bigger box in the back garden, with leaves and grass and a net curtain over the top to keep the flies out.
I don't know what I'm supposed to give it to eat, it seems very young, unable to get into anything like seeds. From experience of catching mice in humane traps, I know that they eat nutella and blackberries and so on, but this mouse doesn't seem to want to know. It's becoming increasingly weak, I don't know if it will survive or not, it doesn't appear to be breathing when I look closely, then it moves.
What should I do?
rain, i know you want what's best for it, i feel it could be on it's way out..unfortunately, I feel there's nothng you can do for the poor little thing, even trying to get some moisture into it may damage it further
all you can do is leave nature to it, I'm sure there are some who feel you should put it out of it's misery, don't worry, i couldn't , either , good luck with it :)
Thanks manicscousers. No, I can't put it out of its misery either. It would be nice to think that I could leave it in the undergrowth and it could be natural, whether living or not, but I just can't stand the thought of the flies getting there before it's dead, I suppose I'll just keep it in this old fridge vegetable box, it's quite large and clear plastic. Anyone else think I could/should do something different?
We dug up a nest a few years ago , popcorn stage. jumping but with eyes still closed. John insisted on caring for them as he does and we fed them baby milk with an eye dropper, they flourished, went on to eat mash and then seeds and when they were big enough and eating well we took then back and let them go. I didn't take long for them to get fur and start eating, but they were healthy when we found them.
Good Luck, nice to know someone is as soft as us !!
As an afterthough, if you go to the chemist they may have chloroform, a drop on a cotton ball in a box and it would go to sleep and depart gently.
Rain the poor thing is obviously sick. If I was you I would carry on caring for it the way you are. You can't do any more than you already have.
Thanks everyone, and thanks Jeannine for the advice.
The mouse has survived the night. We've been trying to feed it with sma baby milk, it doesn't want to know (I also tried mash potato). At least, I think that's what it's telling me. We first used an eye dropper but it was releasing too much at a time, so we opted for soaking a cotton bud in warm baby milk. The thing is, we've given it some of the vegetable fibre cotton wool type bedding that you give to hamsters, and it seems to want to suckle on it. If we try to take it away you can see it has a hold with its mouth. When I try to give it something it falls on its side and opens its mouth after a while, but its paws are trying to push the cotton bud away, so it makes me think that the open mouth is to do with trying to breathe, rather than trying to drink? It certainly doesn't seem to want to, it's very distressing to try, I don't want to force it. Most of the time it spends in the corner of the container, I really don't think it wants to be in the container, but now it's the day, if I let it out the flies will get it again... this has been a very traumatic couple of days, not least for the mouse... :'(
I would be doin the same as you Rain. I found a baby wren once that had fallen out of a nest and the ants were all over it. It had hardly any feathers. I put that in a box and fed it greenfly that I had to collect. It only lasted for a day but if I had left it to the ants I would have felt worse. At least it had a peaceful end. In my opinion there is nothing wrong in having a caring heart.
Could take it to the vet. It may have a problem and wouldn't survive much longer, but might be kinder to put it to sleep sooner in case it's suffering. Poor little scrap.
It's moving faster now than I've seen it move before. It's drinking some warm goats milk every two hours, although not that much. It's been to the toilet twice today, although the poo is an orange colour and very loose, is this right, and is going twice in a day a good sign? Many thanks.
Oooooh good - have been following this thread with interest and I would think going twice is much better than not going at all. Good luck Rain and Little Mouse. :)
Hi rain,
I had a similar experience this morning when I spotted a tiny mouse lying outside my door. There is a cat who always seems to hang around the area and I think he may have been playing with the mouse. It wasnt bleeding and seemed to be still breathing so I picked it up and put it in an empty cereal box in the kitchen.
When I got back from work the mouse was still lifeless but if you look closely it's stomach puffs in and out? I can't decide whether it's already dead and it's just muscle spasms or whatever. I'm not sure what to do...i mean i think it's in pain and don't know how bad it is... if i know it's not gonna survive then i would put an end to the suffering but then again it might get better? it's just so sad watching him lying there :(
Thanks for your support, too, redclanger.
I have read a lot of things on the internet about what to do, whether I'm doing them right is what concerns me. Getting something tiny enough to fit in its mouth to feed it was very difficult... you'd think the smallest syringe tip would be ok, but no. I spoke to a lady at a wildlife rescue place and she recommended using a very thin tube that vets use for catheters for cats, and that on the end of a syringe is the smallest thing we can find.
On the one hand it seems much faster, but it also seems less steady and shakes sometimes. It seems very hungry when I begin to feed it, but it's hard to get it used to the tube and syringe. Sometimes it seems to have had enough and then I try to get it to lick goats milk off my hand. It seems to want to dry suckle on the teatowel or my hand when there's no milk.
This evening, I noticed it had found a tough grass end, you know the type that is round like a stick, and it sat there for ages gnawing at it, you could hear it's tiny little teeth on it. I'm hoping that this is a sign of improvement, not that it's starving.
I read on the internet that after feeding it you need to use a warm, wet cotton bud to gently massage its lower stomach and bottom area as a mother mouse would to stimulate digestion. I have been doing this, but it hates it and tries to get away, and I'm concerned about it being wet as I think it might be cold. Can anyone comment on this? I wonder if a dry cotton bud would do, I appreciate the wet side of it would probably be to replicate the warmth and washing of the mother.
I don't know if it will be alright, we just have to wait and see. I'm doing my best, it's quite traumatic and very tiring... I have to feed it every two hours and once or twice through the night too, and that's probably nothing to how the mouse is feeling.
Just a quick question, if anyone knows anything about this sort of thing. So far it's been living in an old refridgerator vegetable box and a piece of net curtain over the top. As it is becoming livelier, I want to move it to a box with a secure lid. The cages/tanks in the petshop are so expensive just for the plastic type. In the end we got a box from Staples, which is sort of see-through and my Dad has cut a large hole out of the top where we're putting a garden compost seive into the hole for ventilation. Then it made me think, could plastic such as this be toxic? It doesn't smell particularly, but it just got me thinking.
Anyway, at the moment I'm in between feeding, I've got one more hour before it starts again. The mouse is sleeping in a furry babies' boot. :)
etouffed, I feel for you, it's really hard, isn't it?
When I found the little mouse, it was on the path of the allotment and I thought it was dead, it was so lifeless. Then I saw it breathing slightly and it would have what I'd call muscle spasms. At one point it curled very tightly into a ball and I thought it was about to die. When I made an attempt to move it the mouse got to its feet and just sat there. It went between being very still and lifeless to looking like it wanted to escape for the first day. In fact, it's a bit like that now too. I think when it sleeps it must be good for it, and then about an hour and half later it seems to walk around aimlessly, it's almost like a cue for feeding.
Don't give up on it just yet, unless you're certain it's in pain. We contemplated the same thing here briefly, we were even going to let it back outside for the second time on the day I found it, but it was raining so hard we didn't have the heart, and that was before we discovered it was a baby, so thank goodness we didn't. Good luck etouffed, and let me know how it goes. I found the following links very helpful:
The first is for rats but applies to mice too, apparently:
http://www.ratfanclub.org/orphans.html
and
http://www.geocities.com/pinkrock24/handrearingmice.html
Hi Rain
Thanks for the advice. It never occured to me that the mouse might have been a new born and it was just hungry. It was about half the length of my thumb and it's eyes never opened but it had a full coat of fur. I just assumed it was in shock after being attacked by the cat. I went down and warmed up a bit of milk and water and was intending to soak a cotton bud with it and feed it but when i got it out of the box it was completely lifeless, didnt move a muscle :'( It sounds ridiculous but i'm just so upset, it might have still lived if i'd thought to feed him :( i've never been any good with animals
I hope things continue to improve with your little mouse. You seem such a loving person to go to all this trouble to care for him. Keep up the good work and let me know how he gets on xx
The rubbing the tummy is not for digestion, up to a certain age small mammals including kittens and puppies, don't pass urine of faeces without stimulation, the mother licks their genitals and they pee. I have hand reared all manner of things ,dogs, cats, possums, deer a racoon and even a baby bear and it is very important,I use to lick my finger and stroke with that. After they are a little bigger they start to do it on their own,if he is trying to gnaw give him something softer like a sweet chopped apple or sliver of pear or banana.
He might eat milk or sloppy baby porridige from a flat dish too now. I use a top of something.Another tip, chew the end of a matchstick till it look like a brush and pop milk on thet. You can use a fine brush to giv him milk too
XX Jeannine
etouffed, I'm so sorry. I know, it's really heart-rendering. Don't blame yourself, I know that's easier said than done, I keep blaming myself, worrying that I'm not doing things the right way for it. The mouse you found may not have responded to milk even if you'd given it to him. It's not good to give them cow's milk, so by the time you'd found a substitute, it may not have survived then either. It sounds more like the shock killed it. The mouse I'm looking after didn't eat for the first day really because we thought it was an adult and I was trying to feed it blackberries and seeds, which it obviously couldn't eat.
I cried at the beginning with this little mouse when nothing was working and I couldn't get it to feed, although PMT has a lot to answer for (too much information, but neverthless!)... so I'm totally with you on how upsetting it can be. I'm glad I'm not the only softie on here.
Jeannine, thank you so much for that advice. You sound like a real dab hand at all of this. Could you tell me how often I should be wiping its stomach, I mean, should I wait until I've finished feeding it or should I do it at intervals, and how long should I spend doing it? Also, does it have to be wet? When I try to wipe its stomach it hates it and tries to grab the cotton bud and bite it. When it did this earlier it rolled into a ball and began to lick itself and then its back leg. Does this mean I shouldn't be doing it anymore? Also, I haven't noticed any urine from it at all, but it does excrete an orange coloured substance, quite sticky looking. I assumed it was poo, but maybe not? It seems to shake most after I've fed it and put it back in its make-shift home.
Earlier, it was the most lively I've seen it, jumping around and scurrying through the leaves and grass. It seems to get like this before I feed it, has a burst of energy and I can't get it out because it's moving too much. Then I wait a few minutes and it settles down and starts suckling the teatowel again. This evening when I fed it, as soon as the tube on the end of the syringe touched its mouth it hungrily went for it with its paws trying to grasp it too and sucked like mad. I didn't overdo it, I'm guessing little and often. Anyway, the exciting thing is that after I'd given it some milk and put it back, it started to shake as it seems to after feeding and then it went back to gnawing on the piece of grass, and I decided to try what you suggested, with the apple, and it really went for it, I think it spent a good 5 minutes on it and has definitely eaten some. This must be a good thing. Do I need to wipe its stomach again after eating this? Or can I just leave it there with it so it can have a go at eating it whenever it likes? I think I'll start trying to weigh it to put my mind at rest of whether it's putting on weight.
Another question, the wildlife place said to feed it goats milk, which is what I've been doing, but that's the only place that I've heard that. Everywhere else on the internet recommends kitten formula. Do you know which is better, and whether I should switch now? Also, the things I've read on the internet said I should feed it every two hours. It seems to get very hungry within an hour and a half. I've read that I can feed it once in the night, but I don't know if this is realistic. I'm really tired though and need more sleep, what do you think is the longest I can leave it for in the night? Last night I fed it every three hours or so, but I'm really tired.
If I can find my camera charger, I'll try and take some pictures for anyone interested.
Again, thanks to everyone for the response on this one, I thought I might meet with some rolling eyes... I'm used to it, as the person who doesn't kill anything on the allotment, slugs, snails... they all move in!
Oh my love O feel for you. I once reared a full clutch of barn swallows, dawn to dusk every hour, but we did it!!
I would stick with milk you are using, all milks have a different fat content, eg a puppy would not do well on cows milk as dog milk is very high fat, whereas we would dilute cows milk for a human baby. Kitten milk is also very rich.
I would be inclined to see if he will eat on his own now, try sticking his face is a little tray of warm milk, don't submerge his nose, or use your fingers and put it on his face, see if he washes himself , if he does, you have cracked it, he will eat from a dish,once he knows what it is there will be no stopping him.make him baby rusk or something like that,very runny or a jar of baby pudding, always warm ;just the chill off, and stick his face in it, I don't think you need to rub his tummy if he is passing stuff, and yes it does need to be wet, because it is less likely to drag on his skin.not hs tummy so much as lower down.
Be careful leaving a dish in there he could drown, I use a very flat top of a jar, he will sit in it,but if he washing himself and he plastered in milk he is eating.I t will only take a day to get him used to it if he is ready.
Be careful, he will be able to jump high as he gets stronger, the shaking is probably twitching which they do a lot even when asleep they seem to be jumpy.
It sound like he is doing well, once you can get him eating on his own he will fill out fast.
I thought you might get a kick out of the picture, this was one of the swallows I reared.
Try and give him some dry toast to chew on or a chunk of corn cob, I think he may manage it.
Good luck, I am really routing for him XX Jeannine
Hi Jeannine,
Many thanks for your reply, and lovely picture! That's no mean feat, every hour, I have a lot of respect for you.
I gave the mouse a piece of toast and it took it in its mouth and dropped it down the side behind its bed. I saw it go down there a while later, I think it ate some.
Please can you help though, I'm terrified something I've done has harmed it.
Seeing that it was trying the toast I thought I'd try to give it a mixture like you said, although I have no baby rusks or anything yet and tried using the end bits in a box of Weetabix. Was this an awful thing to do? I made it sloppy, but not too runny, I didn't want it to put its nose right in liquid. It licked around then went away and came back to investigate further. I think it ate some, it was standing in it for a while as you said it probably would. Then it opened its mouth wide and froze, and then fell on its side, still with its mouth wide open. I thought it was about to die, I desperately dabbed around its nose and mouth with a cotton bud to dry anything that it might be choking on. Eventually it calmed down and closed its mouth. I thought maybe it was too soon afterall for this, or maybe Weetabix is not good for it. I took it into my hands where it tried to dry suckle again so I thought I'd go back to using the syringe for now, so I tried to feed it how I was normally doing it and the same thing happened, it opened its mouth very wide and froze and looked like it was going to die. Dabbing around the side of its mouth and nose didn't do anything, I was beside myself really and stroked its back with the cotton bud and it calmed down again eventually. What has caused this, and what should I do? I feel its come so far, it's jumping around a bit and getting much faster, I'm almost scared to get it out! I should add that it has not yet opened its eyes. It would be so sad if it were to die now, I really feel its making an improvement. What should I do?
Just a bit of an update. I went to go and feed the mouse and found it trying to eat the piece of apple that I'd left in there, it had its mouth wide open again away from the apple. It's very stressful because I don't know what it means.
I took it out and fed it normally with the syringe and warm goats milk and it seemed fine this time and drank some, although not all that much, but it's hard to know just how much it should be drinking. After it seemed to have had enough, I put it back and it immediately found a crumb from the toast I'd tried it with earlier. It tried to eat it but the same thing happened with its mouth, so I quickly removed the crumb. It makes me think it's very hungry and that what I'm feeding it with the syringe is not enough, but it obviously has difficulty with solids. Can anyone please help, I'm sorry to keep asking, I felt as though things were going smoothly and now I'm concerned that I'm doing something wrong. I'm not used to caring for such small creatures, I have two cats!
I can't get through to the wildlife place I called before, so I don't know where else to ask. Many thanks.
well, babies have rusk, how about that instant porridge, very thin..I'm trying to think of something that would bulk up the milk without putting lumps in ..mashed potato, can't think of anything else, sorry..hope the little 'un gets better soon :)
Rain, I'm afraid I don't know what's causing the mouth thing with your little mouse, but it must be very distressing :( I hope the little thing hangs in there and doesn't wear you out. We have a designated mouse B&B quality street tin that we keep for any mice that the cat brings in. We put bird seed in it to keep them going and then let them out when the cats snoozing during the day.
Your mouse sounds very young, I do hope it pulls through, and you must be a wonderfully compassionate person - good on you. A natural Buddhist maybe ??
just a thought - maybe the mouth thing is just a natural reflex suckling thing and doesn't mean the poor thing is particulary distressed ?? Also , if it is v young maybe put a hot water bottle (just above body temp) wrapped in a towel in its box for comfort, it might help it settle ....... Very best of luck with it - we a re rooting for it.
Keep the food very thin and not sticky at all, it sounds like it is may be gagging but it is hard to know from a distance, all I can say with any surity is it would be dead by now if you were not getting enough nourishment in to it. Let it have some clear water too. It may have it's mouth open if it is too hot too.
Bear in mind even a couple of drops will probably fill it's tiny tummy.
Hang in there, this is another day it has survived, you may still lose him though but he is certainly a fighter with a blooming good nurse.
XX Jeannine
Thanks a lot for the replies. Thanks Jeannine, I think you may be right, but it doesn't explain why it's doing the mouth thing with the apple and the dry toast... do you think I should just stick to giving it the warm goats milk with the syringe? Thank you for your kinds words of encouragement. x
Hi,
Just thought I'd let you all know that very sadly, the little mouse died. I'm even sadder to say that I think it's my fault. I'd continued to feed it with the syringe and it seemed happy enough, hungrily feeding from it and no sign of the open mouth thing that it had done before. Last night it was running around and very lively and fed quite a lot at its feed at 1:30am. I'd gone to bed and thought I'd be able to leave it for three hours, I'd read online that you feed it every two hours and once in the night, but I was trying to do more than that. Anyway, I'd set my alarm for 4:30am but I was so tired, I hit the snooze button a couple of times and didn't get out of bed until 4:50am. I found the poor little thing only just alive. I'd been leaving a hot water bottle under its home for warmth and a gel heat pack wrapped many times in the actual enclosure iwhich it would snuggle into, but the heat doesn't last all that long. When I got up there wasn't very much heat in there at all. I held it in my hands and tried to feed it. It drank a little but it didn't suckle, it made a few gasps in between, then it died. I wasn't sure at first and tried to revive it with heat and stroking it.
I can't tell you how upset and angry I am at myself, it had seemed much stronger and livelier only last night and had drank quite a bit and had snuggled down to sleep. I know that it's notoriously hard to handrear a baby mouse, but up until this point I think it had been showing great signs of improvement. Unfortunately, I really think I let it down when it needed me most, because I was tired, what a sorry excuse.
Thanks so much for all the help and encouragement people gave me on here, particularly Jeannine, your advice was very helpful and thorough. I'm glad I've met so many people on here with compassion and respect for life, no matter how small. Many thanks.
Am very sorry to hear about your little mouse,you have done so well in this past few days, there is nothing wrong with being tired and needing that bit more sleep dont feel guilty about it, i dont think you could have done anymore than what you was doing, RIP little mouse. mpg
So sorry to hear about little mouse, try not to beat yourself up Rain you did everything you possibly could and much more than most.
Take care x
Rain, I'm so sorry to hear that your little mouse has died - but no one could have done more for it than you did.
I don't think flies lay eggs on healthy animals so I'd guess it was dying when you found it. And those eggs would soon have hatched into maggots.......
At least its last days were spent in warmth and comfort - thanks to your loving care. You did a great job. xxx
Awww :( You did a great job Rain. Don't feel bad XXX
Rain I'm so sorry the mouse died, you did much much more than most so don't feel bad. Chin up
Rain, you must not beat yourself over this..I will get really cross with you if you do.I have reared lots of things and it happens, even with hourly feeding and in controlled little incubators wild babies still die.You have no means of knowing what had happened to that little one before you came upon it, it may well have been a runt and never destined to live right from the start,it is sad and I really do know how you feel but you can only do what you can do, you cannot change any internal damage it may have had.
I am frankly surprised it lasted this long, it is easier to rear a nestful than a solitary baby in any species.
You have absolutely nothing to reproach yourself about, you have done an excellent job and you should be very proud of yourself.Frustration you are allowed to feel, sadness of course, but no guilt. He would not have died from 1 late feeding anyway and the temp in the house would have been warm enough to sustain him.
I did many hours as a volunteer in a animal sanctuary in Canada and have seen animals cared for round the clock in superb conditions die after everything could be done to save them. You must not reproach yourself.
You are a very sweet person to try, most everyone would not, especially for a mouse who to many is something to stomp on,it makes my heart warm to know someone who cares as much as you.
Now you just stop with the guilt thing....and give yourself a huge pat on the back.
With love XXX Jeannine
awwww, poor little thing, as others have said Rain, don't beat yourself up, you did your best by the little fella. What a sad ending. xx
Thank you everyone, as you can imagine, today has been a very sad day.
We burried the little mouse on my allotment and laid some flowers. Poor little thing, it was so lovely. :'(