Is everyone here organic?
I'm really suffering with weeds on one of my beds - just seems to be covered with everything you can think of and all the hoeing and pulling is just a losing battle. Was thinking of putting weedkiller on the lot and then raking in some growmore, ready to plant out my cucumbers, courgettes, peas, squashes etc in the next couple of weeks.
(On my onions and shallots bed, I've managed to keep it pretty weed-free by just weeding it each time I go down. Plus been putting a horse manure 'tea' down to encourage them.)
How long should I leave between weedkiller and fertiliser, and between fertiliser and planting out?
thanks!
It's not really up to anyone but yourself to decide whether or not to use weedkiller although I think they are unnecessary. If you have one bed clear I would have thought the other one should respond well to your current treatment. Weeding is an ongoing task and fertile ground will produce fertile weeds.
What sort of weeds are giving you problems? Is it just because the bed is empty and therefore not getting so much attention? I would lightly fork over the bed prior to planting out, removing all weeds in the process. Plant your plants then feed with fertiliser is probably best but varies according to your chosen feed.
Nope, not a naughty word, at least on my plot.
But two weeks is probably not enough time to clear tough perennial weeds using glyphosphate as it takes a while for the weed to take it up and die fully. The last thing you want is to weedkiller the leaves, chop off the top and then have the roots regrow.
If you use something really nasty (pathclear type stuff ) you might kill them quicker but I wouldn't want to eat anything you'd grown in that bed for a year.
Why not clear 2 foot diameter circles to put the plants in, which is probably the size of hole you'd need to dig anyway for a hungry squash, and then mulch the other bits with something thick like manure, straw, cardboard etc. which will keep the weeds down and keep the moisture in the soil.
Matt
I feed my soil and use a hoe-but if I want to use weedkiller to help me out I have no problems using it.
Or strim it to the ground, cover with black plastic and plants your curgettes and squashes through the plastic- I've done this successfully,but not sure about peas.
I`m going to be slightly controversial here. In these days of worrying about disposal of waste and stuff that does not breakdown is black plastic anymore `friendly` than a weedkiller that breaks down in the soil?
It`s a question I wrestle with.
It`s not that folk use DDT or Agent Orange now is it?-I just am in a quandry-a hoe and a fork seems to be the only answer?
Think you've got a fair point there cleo - and when you've spent the last 7 years finding bits of plastic embedded in the soil, you do get a little embittered.
But how about cardboard? large boxes available from supermarkets, electrical stores etc are very good as a weed suppressant, and they do break down in time. (Ok, I know they should be made from renewable sources etc, but it's a question of degree?)
I know many people that now garden 'organically' but started off with a dose of Roundup first - in some cases, people just would get depressed with the weed problem and give up, so on balance maybe it's not quite so bad.
I don,t think there is anything wrong in using weed killer providing its not the sodium chlorate type. Roundup and Weed all are fine they break down on contact with the soil and you can plant after two days of using it and when you think about if your weeds are covering the soil how much actually gets onto the soil if you are using a spray.
I prefer to weed by hand getting my weeding tool under the roots and lifting them out. I have a home made weeder that works just great allowing you to get right up against your veg i will put a photo on tomorrow. Also when it come to weeding i always prefer hot breezy days as the roots dry out quickly and die
Hi all :)
I am concentrating on learning to use my hoe properly and frequently this year but I`m tempted to use Roundup on bindweed which is all over my number one plot. I plan to squirt it inside a short piece of drainpipe held so its surrounding the weed.
Col
You may find it more effective if you crumple the tips and spray them
Quote from: davyw1 on May 05, 2007, 21:56:59
You may find it more effective if you crumple the tips and spray them
why is that ? I find that round up has little effect on my bindweed ...
Because you are letting the poison into the stems of the plant
Weedkillers : - A systemic herbicide like Glyphosate is the best option. When it's growing through other plants untangle as much as possible, lay on a plastic sheet or drape it over some pea sticks before treating. After digging up as much as possible, train any regrowth up a cane to allow enough leaf area to develop for treatment. Crushing can help the uptake of the herbicide. One method of application is to use a sponge or a wollen glove placed over a rubber one to soak up the herbicide then clutch the plant as it grows up the support.
Quote from: jennym on May 05, 2007, 19:35:17
But how about cardboard? large boxes available from supermarkets, electrical stores etc are very good as a weed suppressant, and they do break down in time. (Ok, I know they should be made from renewable sources etc, but it's a question of degree?)
Last year I moved plots to inherit the jungle of Britain. Once I chopped down the thick of it, I used round up / deeproot and left it, and dug out roots. The last quarter of my plot didn't seem to have been affected much - so I turned it over then left it covered in black plastic for 5 months, on the winter dig I covered with heavy duty brown cardboard boxes & kept covered for another 5 months. 2 Weeks ago I removed the cardboard and voila....... the roots were still there though not green so I removed them all by hand. This cardboard. First time I used cardboard and my opinion is now that the cardboard theory for me is a load of old cobblers from now on.
thanks for all the comments and advice - a very friendly forum. :-*
I think I'll try and get the weeds out with m'hoe. Someone mentioned that perhaps I hadn't been giving it as much attention as the bed that was full, and that's probably true.
Off to the allotment now, taking my lunch with me - gonna be achey tonight!
Hi,
We used Glyphosate, the concentrated that you mix up in a watering can.
We used it 4 times over about 10days and now 2 weeks later, all the weeds are yellow and dried up.
This is the only weed killer that we use, it is ok to use around pets and children, and does not harm the soil, it works direct on the weed.
Do be careful though if spraying, if it catches in the wind, you could be spraying your neighbours crop - thats why we use the conc and dilute in a watering can, you have more control on where it goes!
We had Rasberries amongst our weeds, and managed to not get any on them! As we watered close to the ground, below the raspberry leaf height!
Hope this helps,
Sue
there's no law against using weedkiller, so its up to you if you want to use it. At the end of the day, its better to use it and get a plot that you can maintain rather than get despondant and give up after a seemingless endless task. Personally I do not use chemicals, so might be regarded as organic, but that was'nt always the case as I have had some hefty "weeds" to sort out.
Its easier to "become" organic than to be organic from the very start. The main thing is to keep gardening, and ENJOYING it. Good luck.
My two penneth.
I have never used weed killer but it has been going thriugh ny ming recently.
We rested one of our plots last year due to illness and the weeds took over,John dug and pulled in the Spring and it seemed to be done but all over now there is grass coming up and I fear we are losing the battle.
Squash are already planted on it , they are 4 or 5 feet apart so I am not sure what to do. It is growing faster than we can do it manually now. We are even considering buying a flame gun. We might have to lose the squash patch to deal heavily with the weeds.
I have no experience of weed killers so just don't know which way to go with this.
XX Jeannine
What is the problem with sodium chlorate please. My daughters gardener is about to use it in her garden. I think it's on the paths. Is that ok.
Personally, I don't use any weedkillers because at the end of the day I feed what I grow to my family. On my second allotment where I am only just finishing digging the perennials out I know there is a lot of annual weed seeds left - which at the first bit of rain germinate. I use deep layers of mulch to prevent germination and the hoe regularly. It worked on lottie one - so hopefully will do the same here.
My consolation is prior to 2004 I was spending around £300 a year or more in gym membership to keep fit. My two allotments cost me £20 a year. And I have enough veg to feed myslef, my parents and my sisters family.
I have used weedkiller for docs around the pond, dont want the roots piercing the liner. alot of plot holders use it all the time, the one next to me, keeps wanting to spray the hedge bottom in between our plots, I have told him not to do this, you can get rid of most weeds by digging them out. He uses weedkiller every year, if weedkiller is so good at killing weeds then surely you wouldnt need to use it every year. Do weeds get immune to it?
I agree Simon at my new site they have had a slight dig about my organic intentions, but they state that they weedkill and rotovate every year. As some have been on site for at least 30 yrs that would have seen them off. Most of the weeds they have seem to be annuals which can be controlled by digging . The perennials like marestail I agree can't be dug out, but are not made better by rotovation either.
I'll stick to my spade and fork as long as I am able.
Quote from: Suzanne on May 06, 2007, 22:00:31
I agree Simon at my new site they have had a slight dig about my organic intentions, but they state that they weedkill and rotovate every year. As some have been on site for at least 30 yrs that would have seen them off. Most of the weeds they have seem to be annuals which can be controlled by digging . The perennials like marestail I agree can't be dug out, but are not made better by rotovation either.
I'll stick to my spade and fork as long as I am able.
same here
Sodium chlorate is persistent stuff which kills everything, and takes at least six months to leach out of the soil. it's widely used on paths, but I wouldn't let anything that poisonous anywhere near my veg!
Jeannine, last year I grew squash on my new plot - the leaves alone shaded out all the weeds, weakening them substantially, so hopefully you'll have the same result.
Hi all, :)
Flame guns were becoming very popular on our site, but a nearby householder who
hates us all in turn called the fire brigade and now no one dare use them.
Also, I know of a case when a disgruntled plot holder used glyphosphate over his whole site when he was made to give it up, (after a long running dispute with aforementioned nearby householder) Things died off but were soon replaced and after just a few weeks you wouldn`t have known it had been done. Glyphosphate isn`t a complete solution as you cannot just squirt and forget.
Col
I'd use the thing anyway, and dare them to take action. I assume there's nothing in the lease that bans them, and as long as you're sensible about using them not too long after rain there's no danger to anyone.
Me too Robert, we can't have bonfires and we do but we do it when the wind is not blowing towards ASDA who complained it went into the store,we have had no complaints since we started watching the wind. XX Jeannine
I lve the idea of mulching with compost to smother the weeds-in theory! (Another no-dig article in the Guardian yesterday).But without spending a fortune on commercial stuff, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will NEVER have enough compost to put the required thickness on the large areas we are trying to control! So it's strim, dig and curse for me!
Quote from: Jeannine on May 06, 2007, 18:50:48
It is growing faster than we can do it manually now. We are even considering buying a flame gun.
XX Jeannine
Jeannine,
obviously I don't know what type of flame gun you might be considering ... but from my experience save your money.
Have had one (the big Sheen model X300) for over 30 years, great for quick burning off of Annual weeds on beds and gravel driveways, but useless for Perennials.
Had not used ours for some years, until 2/3 weeks ago when tried again on our new Lottie. The problem was Couch Grass and what a bu**er it is, burned off a huge patch (great fun) and the scorched earth looked great ...... but a week later all new growth, so flaming was a waste of time.
At the same time as the flamegun experiment we used Roundup, on another patch, mixed to watering can strength (see my moan in Bargains Galore re cost of Roundup at Focus).
The Roundup worked a treat, the 'experienced' (for which read wrinklies) on our Lottie site all recommended leaving for at least 4 weeks to allow the Roundup to do it's stuff, then dig it. We did this and although the ground is like Concrete we have dug a large area down to a full spade depth and removed heaps of roots all of which look sickly and Brown hooray ....
Like many of us on A4A I am a non chemical gardener, but with weedkillers I make an exception (not as a habit) and only products like Roundup, Weedol etc. which neutralise on contact with the Earth
hope this helps ?
Despite my good intentions of having my lottie all organic I have had to buy a bottle of roundup (which you mix up yourself) which dissipates on contact with the soil when dealing with my thistle problem. :-[
My lottie had not been worked in about two years and the weeds were waist high last October. So despite me clearing them by hand I just cannot seem to get the whole root out and in less than a week a new one pops out. This is more problematic in my onion patch as my onions were sown in the Autumn and are quite big now so I do not want to disturb their roots too much. So instead of loosing heart, I have decided to break down and use it I am getting even and very carefully spraying these thistles. All else is still done by hand though.
Jitterbug