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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 18:08:46

Title: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 18:08:46
I've got some Lady Godiva squash seeds from when I grew one as a melon. (Don't ask! ::) ) If they actually grow, can I grow them in the same plot as spaghetti squash? I tried to find out in my Seedsaver's Handbook but it just made my head hurt!!

If they will cross pollinate will I get lots of different squash on each plant?
Is cross pollination a bad thing? I could always save the spag squash seeds 'til next year. Help! :-\
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: legless on April 12, 2007, 18:18:42
i think they may cross pollinate but that only matters if you save the seed. the squashes that grow should be as expected but the seeds may produce funny squashes.

i think
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: spacehopper on April 12, 2007, 21:10:39
Yes I think that's how it works...squashes and courgettes will cross pollinate like mad. The fruit will not be affected but the seed from the fruit won't come true to type if it has been cross pollinated.
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 21:13:37
thanks to both for that. I think I'll see if the LG germinate and if they do I'll leave the spag squash 'til next year.
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 21:36:09
Hi, re your squash, sorry but yes they will cross.

All  winter squash, pumpkins, summer squash, zucchini,courgettes all fall into 1 of 4 families.

Squash will not cross with other families, but will within their own.

Families are called

Pepo,Maxima, Mixta, and Moscata.

Your Spaghetti and you Godiva are both Pepos.

Sorry. XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 21:38:12
Thanks Jeannine, am I right in thinking that the squash and courgettes are ok together tho'?
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 21:41:48
No, it depends on the type of squash, MOST  of the summer squashes which courgettes are ,are pepos, but the winter  squash are all over the families. If you tell me which squash I can probably help you.XX Jeannine


Just to add something here. A courgette is a squash, it is a type of summer squash but a squash nevertheless, a pumpkin is also a squash, the word pumpkin is used intertwined with the word squash.
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 21:53:01
Either Lady G or spaghetti depending if LG germinate, then ... hang on a mo while I get my seed tin!...........................................courgette F1 Orelia and squash Diamant. I did plan on growing these altogether in the 3 sisters bed.  Blimey I didn't know the family was so complicated! ???
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 22:01:45
Orelia and Diamant are both courgettes which are summer sqaushes,  and the  same family as Godiva and spaghetti  they are all pepo and will cross .

It makes no differnce to your squash when you eat them, it is not like sweetcorn that gets starchy if it out crosses, your squash will be fine, your seeds will not  and if you save them you could get anything, Orelia is a hybrid anyway so you would't want to save those seeds.

XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 22:09:18
OMG! :-\ This is SOO complicated!

I think then that I will stick to the LG or spag on the lottie, and try to grow the courgettes in pots at home. Failing that, if my son gets the plot that could well become vacant next week I'll sneak them into his!!! ;) (Keep your fingers crossed for him, as he could do with a lift right now and he has worked so hard on my plot.)

Thanks again Jeannine. XOX
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 22:23:37
Look tell me all the squash /courgett/pumpkin type stuff you have, I will give you a couple more from the  other families  so you can grow them all together and keep you seeds without any problems. Send the list asap and I will get the seeds to quickly. XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: spacehopper on April 12, 2007, 22:26:04
Quote from: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 21:36:09
Hi, re your squash, sorry but yes they will cross.

All  winter squash, pumpkins, summer squash, zucchini,courgettes all fall into 1 of 4 families.

Squash will not cross with other families, but will within their own.

Families are called

Pepo,Maxima, Mixta, and Moscata.

Your Spaghetti and you Godiva are both Pepos.

Sorry. XX Jeannine

That's interesting about the four families Jeannine, I didn't know that. Just looked in some of our books and there was nothing with that level of detail...any reading suggestions?

Caz x
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 12, 2007, 22:35:11
Wow Jeannine that is a really kind offer, but it's not really the tpes that are the problem, it's the mixing of them.

I like courgettes, so wanted to grow a green and a yellow, so no probs there as I won't be saving seed from them.

Then I fancied some squashes to store over the winter, which I've never done before. The Lady G only grew 1 because of my own stupidity and I cooked it Hugh F-W style as a soup. Yummy it was too!! ;)

How do you manage to grow summer's and winter's together then?
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 22:35:41
I don't  know why the Uk books don't help you out with this,I think because squash growing is really just taking of I can suggest a good 4 pack of varieties one from each family that you can put together if that will help. XX Jeannine

There is a good book, expensive, try library  The Compleat(her spelling) Squash by Amy Goldman. Outstanding book
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: jennym on April 12, 2007, 23:03:42
Interested in this cross pollination subject, so did some googling, and found these links which are reasonable reading too:

http://www.co.allen.in.us/images/stories/Purdue%20CES/Horticulture/ACH31.pdf

http://www.comav.upv.es/taxonomy_intro.html
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 12, 2007, 23:32:23
I have seen this site and it good BUT it has very few named squash listed and this is what most folks want to know XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: OliveOil on April 13, 2007, 08:17:47
Actually sometimes if they cross it can affect the fruit. EG. last year i grew yellow patty pans and green ones. As the season progressed the green ones ended up yellower and yellower and didnt taste as good as the proper yellow patty pans.
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 13, 2007, 08:46:10
Olive, It shouldn't affect the fruit from the season planted, the fruit on the vine would look exactly like it's parent unless the parent was a cross, in which case it could look exactly the same as it's parent but genetically it woulkd be different and throw different fruit.Were the seeds you grew home saved,if so  they may not have come true,another point is  that  some of the green ones do yellow with age..just a thought but pure seed should not be affected till the next generationXX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 13, 2007, 09:40:21
Jeannine I went to bed with my book and I think I've sussed it!
I can grow courgettes (Pepo) in the same bed as Butternut (Moschata) yes?

Only prob with that is I can't peel butternut! :-\ I did try cooking with the skin on but then it went soft and we didn't know if we could eat it or not :'( How do you prepare yours?

Sorry to be such a pain! XOX
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 13, 2007, 12:22:06
Yes, no probs with butternut. Peeling gets more of a problem the longer you store your winters. wait till you grow  Hubbard, you almost need a chain saw!!

I tend to cook with the skin on if they are tough,or par cook, then take the skin off and return to the oven etc. You can eat the skin,it won't do you any harm,my rule of thumb is, if it is tender eat it ,as it gets tougher don't. I serve it in the skin and then leave the skin on the plate like the folks who don't eat potato skins do.

I tend to steam,bake,roast, etc my squash. Personally I don't make soups etc but I do make pies with pumpkin(only certain types though) I also like winter squash deep fries as chips.Oh and you can batter and eat the blossoms or stuff them.

Just as addition this might give an idea to squash families but is in no way complete.

PEPO.This includes all the summer squash plus,Table King/Queens,Cinderella pumpkin, most of the Crooknecks, Delicata,all of the Scallopps or Patty pans,Small Sugar Pumpkins,Spaghetti, Godiva.Sweetnut,Thelma Saunders,Triple Treat,
all of the Vegetable Marrows,( all the zucchini/courgettes

MAXIMA. Dills Atlantic Giant Pumpkin,Australian Butter,all of the Bananas,Big Moon, Big  Max, all of the Buttercups,all of the Hubbards,Little Gem, Jarrahdale,Red Kuri,all of the marrows not described as vegetable,Queensland Blue,Sibley,Sweetmeat,Turks Turban,Triamble

MOSCHATA Butternuts,

MIXTAAll of the Cushaws except Golden which is a Moschata,some of the crooknecks,

I have only included the most popular ones or ones I have sent seeds out.

GOURDS The small hard shelled striped and warty gourds belong to the pepo family, and will cross in that family.
Most other gourds belong to a completely different family and will not cross with squash

It might help someone. XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: MacArthur Park on April 13, 2007, 17:37:39
Thanks Jeannine that was EXACTLY what I needed. Have bookmarked the page for future reference.  :D
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: tricia on April 13, 2007, 19:54:10
Thanks for that Jeannine - I've printed your list off for future reference. It doesn't look as though I will be saving any seeds this year if I grow Rolet/Little Gem, Sweet Dumpling and Red Kuri close to each other. - and not from the patty pans and delicata either.....and the butternut is an F1, so no joy there...............hmmmmmmm! Oh well  ::) ::).

Tricia
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 13, 2007, 19:57:41
Bear in mind it is a very small list, there are hundreds of them, I just put the poplular ones there. XX Jeannine
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Rohaise on April 14, 2007, 19:28:41
 Dear Jeannine , you are wonderful !   Rohaise    :)
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Tin Shed on April 14, 2007, 20:05:44
Wow, Jeanine, you are a mine of infromation!
Title: Re: mixing squash types
Post by: Jeannine on April 14, 2007, 20:44:15
 Hey I will dispute that, just ask me about onions or Brussel sprouts,spuds,turnips,and most everything else and my knowledge aint worth a breath, squash are my  first love,my  hobby , I lov 'em and  I study'em, have done for years,after that I like my corn,beans and toms  and that is were it stops !! Useless comes to mind then and I really struggle. XX

XX Jeannine