I haven't actually seen any of this with a growing above ground bit attached, but some areas of my plot are riddled with these roots. they vary from just under the surface to a good spit down, but I've got no idea what they are or whether they're good or bad. does anyone recognise them? they snap very easily and are very slightly yellowy coloured. obviously, I'm hoping it's not something too nasty!
I'm no expert, but they look like the fine tree roots that infest one of my beds. Harmless but annoying. Is there a tree (especially a sycamore) growing nearby?
Steve.
no, no trees nearby. and I can't figure out what they're attached to: when I pull them out of the soil they either snap or come out whole but they're quite soft (the really fine roots you can see in the pic aren't part of the mystery roots).
they're not quite as wide as a pencil, about just over half the width, and a little bit knobbly, makes me think of unravelled knitting. the worst patch I've found so far is in an area that used to have a great big pile of sheep muck and leaf mould on it.
Ivy?
Looks suspiciously like bindweed :(. Is that a heart shaped leaf on the top left?
I agree, looks like bindweed to me ...vile >:( stuff, will regrow from the tiniest bit of root.....
do ivy and bindweed roots get that big then?!? eek!
Looks like bind weed to me too! I find they are quite brittle and break very easily but that will be why it's so hard to get rid of.
Can't say I have seen bind weed, it looks like well established couch grass to me.
I have experience with both :(. Initially I mistook bindweed for couch.
A good spit down definitely sounds more like bindweed! Bindweed grows deeper than couch, it snaps more easily and it's thicker (up to 5 mm).
Quote from: dandelion on January 30, 2007, 16:12:46
I have experience with both :(. Initially I mistook bindweed for couch.
A good spit down definitely sounds more like bindweed! Bindweed grows deeper than couch, it snaps more easily and it's thicker (up to 5 mm).
They are both the spawn of the devil..........I've just spent the last 3 hours digging some up grrrrrrrrrr :( >:( >:(
Welcome to the bindweed haters' club!Plenty of advice on here about ways of getting rid of it- up to a point!
not sure what the leaf in the pic is, but I don't remember seeing any bindweed leaves yet (or is it just too early?!?)
a lot of the roots are at least 5mm thick, if not more, so whatever it is it's healthy :o
will try and take a better photo this weekend.
Quote from: norfolklass on January 30, 2007, 16:21:04
not sure what the leaf in the pic is, but I don't remember seeing any bindweed leaves yet (or is it just too early?!?)
a lot of the roots are at least 5mm thick, if not more, so whatever it is it's healthy :o
will try and take a better photo this weekend.
Yes a bit too early for new growth, but the first growth of the season will be tiny heart shaped leaves.
Couch Grass has a sort of stripy root, and a bit thinner than bindweed. One thing is sure you won't have long to wait before know.
Rosemary
Hi norfolklass, i think we have this on our new plot too :o but at least you're not alone! We noticed something suspiciously looking like it while up there last weekend pegging out the beds & paths. Good luck with your digging! x
looks like bind weed to me as well ..please don't panic, if you keep on pulling it, it can't grow as quickly as you can get it out, it's if you leave it alone, it gets out of control..also, as the soil gets softer it's easier to get out ;D
Hedge or Field (?) both a nuisance but field is much smaller plant and prettier pink and white flowers... If they weren't so tough we would be falling over ouselves to grow it like its relative "Morning Glory",
But then that's what the Victorians thought about Japanese Knotweed!
;D
Look like bindweed to me too. The one with big white flowers is actually Calystegia sylvatica and Field bindweed (small and pink) is Convolvulus arvensis. Both are s.....s to get rid of.
Quote from: Tee Gee on January 30, 2007, 16:08:19
Can't say I have seen bind weed, it looks like well established couch grass to me.
After what I dug out of my plot 3 years ago, I agree with Tee Gee. Some I had 'killed' with roundup the year before and I reckon that is what I came across later. Size is difficlt to assertain on a pic but my first/best guess is couch.
One thing. Have you grown anything in that area over the years?
I see a couple of roots that look like couch, others that look like bindweed, and fibrous stuff that looks like neither. Whatever it is, you'll soon find out.
The hint is in the description!
Yellow (roots) in colour. You see the fibrous roots also.
I'll place my bets on NETTLE!
I'd like to see something like a film canister alongside to get the size right...a ruler?....something like that, maybe a hand?
Quote from: telboy on January 30, 2007, 21:41:56
The hint is in the description!
Yellow (roots) in colour. You see the fibrous roots also.
I'll place my bets on NETTLE!
I hope you're right Telboy! I had nettles too and found them easier to eradicate than couch and bindweed. I can't remember the roots 'snapping' easily like bindweed though.
By the way, IMO the worst weed of ALL is horseradish; roots go down all the way to Australia >:(! I have experience with docks, brambles and dandelions too , and oh forgot creeping buttercups ;D.
Looks like bindweed to me. When I first found it on my plot I didn't know what it was and left some bits - what a mistake. But a combination of digging and roundup has got it under control.
Mint?
I'm sure you all know a lot more about these things than I do but to me it looks like ground elder - the one thing I am an expert on! If it is pull out as much as you can - I've pulled up buckets full in the last few weeks from my little patch in the garden. Any tiny bit left behind will grow again, it finds it's way round all types of weed suppressant & smothers everything. Apparently some people grow it as you can eat the new shoots.
There's your answer, Norfolklass..........eat it. :P Yummy.
Quote from: Marymary on January 30, 2007, 22:18:21
I'm sure you all know a lot more about these things than I do but to me it looks like ground elder - the one thing I am an expert on!
Ground elder: Ah, finally a weed that doesn't grow on my plot, though there's a jungle of it a few feet away against a wall. Does it prefer shade?
Actually whichever weed it is I would get rid of every bit you see because we're all pretty certain it's one of the really nasty ones!
Quote from: Kea on January 31, 2007, 16:44:59
Actually whichever weed it is I would get rid of every bit you see because we're all pretty certain it's one of the really nasty ones!
yes, that's what I thought!
I have been digging it out of the soil and piling it up on an old tarpaulin â€" there's a scarily huge pile of it already :o
thanks all, for all your replies. although I've yet to see any bindweed, and am ashamed to say I don't know what couch looks like, I
do have quite a lot of ground elder along the boundary fence (mine is the end plot) :'(
I haven't started tackling that yet. have covered it and am 'saving' it for
another day a month or seven!
(I thought it would be useful to identify the roots so that I have something specific to focus my venom on ;D)
How about planting a small piece of root in a pot and putting in in a heated propagator? I'm sure it will start to grow in no time at all and the mystery will be solved ;D.
This is a small section of couch....I caught this heading in from next door so it looks quite fresh, but the mass of it in the ground looked very much like yours. Any chance of another pic with something alongside for scale? I use a photo cannister.
That looks like flipping couch to me - i've spent hpurs digging the d**n stuff!
Louise
ooh, I do have some of that kenkew :( but the majority of what I've been finding is much bigger and knobbly. the couch looks very thin and straight â€" is it also known as speargrass? one of the old boys said I had some of that... will be down the lottie this weekend with camera, film canister and ruler!
.In the meantime, if you have time. Try searching for info on these weeds.
One of them might be your invader.
Allium Vineale
Alopecurus Pratensis
Andropogon Gerardii
Bromus Inermis
Cyperus Esculentus
Dactylis Glomerata
Elytrigia Repens
Juncus Tenuis
Muhlenbergia Frondosa
Ornithogalum Umbellatum
Panicum Virgatum
Phalaris Arundinacea
Phleum Pratense
Sorghastrum Nutans
Sorghum Halepense
Typha Latifolia
Yucca Glauca
it looks exactly like the bindweed that I'm digging out of my plot ... and its definitely started growing already on my plot
Mc55...Try and get a pic similar to the one shown here for comparison.
Quote from: telboy on January 30, 2007, 21:41:56
The hint is in the description!
Yellow (roots) in colour. You see the fibrous roots also.
I'll place my bets on NETTLE!
My first thoughts based on the description - yellow is a clincher in my opinion.
Quote from: kenkew on February 02, 2007, 18:10:17
Mc55...Try and get a pic similar to the one shown here for comparison.
hmm, I burn mine whenever I'm having a big bonfire - its not a great picture, but you can see the long white roots at the front of the fire. I'll try and remember to take another photo next week.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3449/2027/1600/Allotment-Burning--18-11-06---168.jpg
Lovely picture Mc55 - looks like Hell! Burning is a good idea but whatever you do don't put it anywhere near the compost heap. I think that's how we spread it all over the garden.
Live & learn. ;)
I really feel for you but it's better than having marestail I can tell you
I compost nettles; they've never survived the process yet.
I compost them or make stinky tea. But then again Robert, we have been here before. We compost everything and burn very little and nothing survives the compost process as long as it is left long enough.
I've got my composter going now - but wouldn't contemplate putting my bindweed in there - I've burned the equivalent of a couple of full size waterbutts so far.
Soak it in water for a couple of weeks and make compost tea out of it and then stick it on the compost. That'll definitely do for it.
Quote from: redclanger on February 03, 2007, 17:39:12
I compost them or make stinky tea. But then again Robert, we have been here before. We compost everything and burn very little and nothing survives the compost process as long as it is left long enough.
That's about the size of it. When I started, I was finding a fair few docks and bindweed roots that were still alive; I got them out as best I could (the bindweed grew new roots which were incredibly thin, and went everywhere), but they never seemed to re-establish themselves anyway. I soon stopped worrying, and every year I find less left alive anyway.
here's a pic of couch (I think, going by kenkew's pic), nettle, and the mystery roots side by side for comparison, all to be found in huge quantities on my plot:
and one of my paw, for size:
i think it,s bindweed, ihtink their might be a small and a large leafed one
it looks like the roots my nighbour leaves on the dividing grass path
Now that stuff is a heck of a lot thicker than I first thought from the first pic. If that's couch it's the biggest stuff I've ever seen!
If it was me, I'd have a go at following it and see if you can a leaf or at least something poking out of the ground.
If you can pic that, an ID is easier from the top growth.
I did manage to find a bit that had the beginnings of a leaf at one end, so I took it home and planted it in a pot. will wait to see what sort of triffid emerges and post another pic!
I'm still betting on bindweed.........I found some again on my plot today when I dug up some bulbs to be moved, does the root look white inside when you snap it, its quite fragile? If so, bindweed it is! ::)
Quote from: norfolklass on February 05, 2007, 13:34:58
here's a pic of couch (I think, going by kenkew's pic), nettle, and the mystery roots side by side for comparison
I think you're spot on with all 3! Bindweed has that knobbly look. The newest roots will be white but older ones can be yellow-ish on the outside.
Quote from: Deb P on February 05, 2007, 16:28:30
I'm still betting on bindweed.........I found some again on my plot today when I dug up some bulbs to be moved, does the root look white inside when you snap it, its quite fragile? If so, bindweed it is! ::)
Pic, Pic, Pic...............! Comparison.
Quote from: kenkew on February 05, 2007, 16:44:36
Quote from: Deb P on February 05, 2007, 16:28:30
I'm still betting on bindweed.........I found some again on my plot today when I dug up some bulbs to be moved, does the root look white inside when you snap it, its quite fragile? If so, bindweed it is! ::)
Pic, Pic, Pic...............! Comparison.
I'll take a photo when I go on Wednesday, I'm sure I'll find some more!
That's bindweed. You need to arrange for it to cease to exist.
In my very unprofessional opinion, I would say that , at least in my lottie, couch grass roots tends to grow horizontally, while bind weed roots tend to grow vertically. But then again, I could be wrong ???
cj :)
You're right about couch; left to itself, the roots are always pretty shallow. When it gets down deep, it's been dug in accidentally! Bindweed can go deeper than a spade's depth without my assistance.
Quote from: Deb P on February 05, 2007, 17:05:12
Quote from: kenkew on February 05, 2007, 16:44:36
Quote from: Deb P on February 05, 2007, 16:28:30
I'm still betting on bindweed.........I found some again on my plot today when I dug up some bulbs to be moved, does the root look white inside when you snap it, its quite fragile? If so, bindweed it is! ::)
Pic, Pic, Pic...............! Comparison.
I'll take a photo when I go on Wednesday, I'm sure I'll find some more!
Sorry, couldn't get a fork into the ground here today, frozen solid! :-\
Well norforklass,
You've been buried in advice, what's your opinion?
hmm, I'm going to go with the consensus I think, and expect bindweed when it starts growing. checked on the bit I planted at home and it's started to grow although the tip has been frosted so no leaves yet... will post a pic as soon as there are leaves.
whatever it is, it's EVERYWHERE! my neighbour has it too, he's just dug over his plot and there's a trail of the same roots leading to a huge pile on the communal dumping ground (actually two derelict plots covered in brambles and currently home to, amongst other things, a microwave oven, a stereo and lots of broken glass ::) and there's a waiting list for plots on our site >:( (it took me 18 months to get my plot) but that's a whole new thread). so that should help it spread nicely ::)
I am 100% certain that those roots are bindweed. I think you will have your work cut out for the next few years. It sounds as though your plot and those nearby have been really neglected for a long time and the weeds have taken over completely.
I am forever digging bindweed out of my vegetable plots and flower gardens, so you have my sympathy. I look forward to seeing the leaves of your plant when they unfold. Why is it in nature that the bindweed is such a pest yet has such a beautiful flower.
Good luck with your new adventure.
we've always been told to NEVER let it flower, just keep pulling as much as poss out, seems to work, I think it's giving up and going somewhere more hospitable ;D
If it flowers, it seeds all over the place. The stuff in my hedges has probably been doing so for the last 167 years since the site opened!
the bit I planted at home has finally grown some leaves: it's a thistle :o :o :o
I'm not convinced that it can all be thistles, so I've brought some more roots home and have planted those in another pot to see if they turn out to be bindweed.
am very surprised!
I have all the roots you have on your picture! The old boys on my plot said the thicker stuff that is brittle is bindweed, and the thinner bendy stuff is couch (also known as witchgrass and many other names too apparently!) and the stuff with the red and green fuzzy sprouty bits are nettles.
I've also got hogweed (think thats what its called...)
I'll take a pic of mine today and post it tomorrow...
:)
Okay, here are my weeds...
Three different kinds, the left one I thought was bindweed - kinda bendy but snaps easy, grows quite deep. The middle one I thought was couch - bendy, grows shallow, starting to sprout the grass-like shoots out. The right one I thought was nettle - hard to see here but has red on it too, and fuzzy leaves and stem. Also, does anyone know what the round green ones are in the backround? When I pull these out, they have really long, quite thick single roots that splay out into a sort of "foot" at the bottom. They are starting to sprout up all over the place. :(
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/sally_cinnamon_photos/Allotment/Weeds2.jpg)
I think this is hogweed?
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/sally_cinnamon_photos/Allotment/Weeds.jpg)
The pile!
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/sally_cinnamon_photos/Allotment/Weeds1.jpg)
eek :o :o :o
am quite scared by your middle pic!
the nettle roots on my plot are quite yellowy rather than red, so I'm not sure that the one on the right is nettle, but I don't know what it might be instead :-\
Yes it scares me too, especially when I see that there are around thirty of them sprouting up around the place! Not even funny. :(
The bottom one is quite scary too, seeings how I've only just got through about a third of my plot and I'm betting the rest is just as weedy! Think I'll have me a bonfire...
omg, I've never seen anything like the middle one. My bindweed and thistles are revving up and springing into life - they look very similar at this stage beneath the soil.
The first one is definitely bindweed and couch as you suggested.
Does anyone think that the middle one could be last years parsnip. I have tops similar to that on my lottie. When I dug them up, they had badly eaten parsnips underneath. Saying that, they were whiter roots than those. What would schonozera(?) look like ? They have dark roots.
Feel free to ignore all my suggestions, as I'm probably completely wrong ???
cj :)
I think scorzonera have narrow leaves and it's not parsnips either. don't know what it is though ::).
The original photo looks like something I have on my plot. The leaves it gets are flat to the ground, like a rosette I guess, with bumps and little hairs. I think if I remembered it flowered with small yellow, almost daisy like, flowers which turn to little fluffy seed head - Like dandelion but taller, and thinner. The seem to grow along runners of these roots and I found in the end it was easier to pull the weed up once the leaves had grown. I had some rosettes of about a tea-plate size if not bigger.
This is a good example of the leaves but the roots have shriveled here and were much thicker and creamier in colour.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6631/483/1600/IMG_0723.jpg
Quote from: amanda21 on March 28, 2007, 21:43:48
This is a good example of the leaves but the roots have shriveled here and were much thicker and creamier in colour.
I have that in the lawn at home!
no idea what it is though ???
Could be one of the hawkweeds. Good bee plants.
http://www.bayer-escience.co.uk/tw22.htm
Oxtongue?
Ox-Tongue - thanks dandelion - I reckon that's mine judging by the leaves! :-\
Quote from: carolinej on March 28, 2007, 20:56:22
Does anyone think that the middle one could be last years parsnip. I have tops similar to that on my lottie. When I dug them up, they had badly eaten parsnips underneath. Saying that, they were whiter roots than those. What would schonozera(?) look like ? They have dark roots.
Feel free to ignore all my suggestions, as I'm probably completely wrong ???
cj :)
When I first saw the top of one poking through I thought it was parsnip cos there was just a bit of green then thr round white top above the soil, but when I dug it up and sniffed it, it was way stronger than parnsip and much more like horseradish, which I then decided that's what it was until one of my neighbours came over and cast his discerning eye over it and said definately NOT to have it with my roast beef! I don't think it's a left over crop because it's randomly dotted over the place, and the only thing to be planted in the last few years has been some spuds.
finally got a photo (hope it's not too big). Majority of the roots are bindweed, but I've placed a thistle (middle of picture) for comparison - they are very similar
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/441197975_f749c9c249.jpg)
they look almost identical!
mine have all turned out to be thistles so far, and no sign of bindweed... yet.
planted my 1st earlies on Sunday and filled a bucket half full of nice new baby green thistles just starting to regrow from all the bits of root I missed when I double-dug the bed ::)
I had no idea they were such a pest, and thought that if you got rid of the plant and the tap root that was it. apparently not >:(
you could always make some nettle soup with the new growth ;D
Quote from: mc55 on April 02, 2007, 19:27:07
finally got a photo (hope it's not too big). Majority of the roots are bindweed, but I've placed a thistle (middle of picture) for comparison - they are very similar
They
are similar aren't they? I actually think that most of mine is thistle as now that they are growing I can see what they look like out of the ground! Anyone got a pic of what bindweed looks like when it sprouts?
:)
bindweed will not have so much surface root as each root buries itself deeply to survive and is the reason for its survival. I believe you have ground elder which does have very dense roots 3 to 4 inches below ground. Good news is with a fork it is easy to get rid off. Bad news is if your neighbour has ground elder it will come back and be a nuisance again
I've just been clearing some runaway mint roots that look very similar to those in the photo.
for those who requested a photo of young bindweed:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/470530121_e636fe040e_m.jpg)
bindweed without doubt... mine's flowering nively in the hedge at the end of my plot :P
Bindweed: tiny liitle leaves on the surface but I had to dig down 2 feet for the last one tackled.