Trying to express an emotion in simply written words is impossible, hence the use of punctuation, in particular the exclamation mark! But (don't start a sentence with 'but', you naughty boy,) some of 'em make me laugh and some make me cringe, and, (don't follow a comma with 'and' you naughty boy,) I'm as guilty as anyone on here for terrible puncuation, but ( there you go again, you naughty boy,) has anyone got some real corkers to share?
:o
You can start a sentence with a but nowadays and when and is used as a connective - to join two clauses together, it is sometimes appropriate to use a comma, but not always. With all other conjunctions, a comma should be used. Here endeth the lecture on punctuation and grammar ;D
'Nowadays'...I wish 'nowadays' had have existed in my days at school...my knuckles still burn! I was always told 'but' never followed a pause as it was connected to the subject matter already discussed, but there you go. :-*
However, the topic is; do you have any puncuation titters or terribles?
And nowadays a comma should always precede a but ::) (unless its a full stop) I am not a stickler for good punctuation or grammar in casual typing. I don't like text speak but I do not think spelling is overly important except in formal documents as long as meaning can be construed - this is also the only time that perfect puncutation and grammar is essential in my book. I do believe that the way something is written says a lot about someone - in the same way that speech does. Writing can have dialect too - even when not forced.
If I ever have doubts about good grammar, I look here - http://cctc.commnet.edu/grammar/ (http://cctc.commnet.edu/grammar/) An American site which refreshingly treats Americanisms as being different and worthy of a further click, rather than the other way round.
My punctuation is horrendous, along with my spelling. And (can you start sentances with and?) I know full well I bung exclamation marks all over the place, but I do find with the written word, it is jolly hard to get your tone of voice or excitement or dismay across, hence I use the good old exclamation mark.
At school we weren't taught when to use an apostrophe or the differences between of and off and to and too. My grandad taught me those, and I know sometimes I get them wrong. My biggest problem at the moment is what is a noun, a verb, a pronoun etc. Again, something I don't ever recal being taught at school. I am trying to teach myself these things because the children are learning them at school and they ask me questions, and I have to reach for my dictionary to make sure I am helping them and not leading them up the garden path!
The hardest thing to get across in writing is sarcasm and irony, and as I use (the lowest form of wit) a lot, often struggle. I do get away with it elsewhere but we have nearly all met in person and know each other very well. I sometimes struggle on here cos of a skills transfer issue.
yes - nowadays, you can start a sentence with and, just not a lot.
I know a 'puzzle' but first I'm putting it out as a question.
How many times can the word 'and' be used one after the other without another between and yet still make sense?
(My count is 5)
???
Depends if the person talking has a stutter really, and, and, and, and,and just, just how bad that stu t t t er is;)
Hahaha! Nope.
The sentence does make sense. Five uses of the word 'and' one following the other.
Like Emma, my punctuation is appalling. i think most peeps know what i am trying to say such as goodnight. ;D ;D
Sitting in the traffic each morning I pass a pub with blackboards outside which say (twice! - good use of exclamation mark I think...):
"Come and try are steaks"
One day I will be brave enough to pay them a visit and point it out..... :-\
To comment on the R'Clangers post in Waking the Dead....
.........Use a comma + a little conjunction (and, but, for, nor, yet, or, so) to connect two independent clauses, as in "He hit the ball well, but he ran toward third base."
Contending that the coordinating conjunction is adequate separation, some writers will leave out the comma in a sentence with short, balanced independent clauses (such as we see in the example just given). If there is ever any doubt, however, use the comma, as it is always correct in this situation.
One of the most frequent errors in comma usage is the placement of a comma after a coordinating conjunction. We cannot say that the comma will always come before the conjunction and never after, but it would be a rare event, indeed, that we need to follow a coordinating conjunction with a comma. When speaking, we do sometimes pause after the little conjunction, but there is seldom a good reason to put a comma there.......
Knowledgable words indeed and it's nice to see both paragraphs coming down on the side of not using the comma prior to a conjunction.....unless there is 'doubt' as mentioned,, but not explained, of course.
Anyway, moving on...any more punctuation pickles?
Quote from: redclanger on January 21, 2007, 21:57:44I do not think spelling is overly important except in formal documents as long as meaning can be construed -
The latter point is important, though. Spelling is very important in my work, because I send a lot of email to people in Asia and Europe, who don't have English as their first language. A mis-spelling is usually no problem to native speakers, but can be very frustrating to people using babelfish or a dictionary to help with translation. For that reason, I'd be reluctant to employ someone who didn't take some care with their spelling.
Of course, it is not just spelling which causes problems. One time, we described something to a Japanese customer as a 'cosmetic difference' and they complained that they couldn't understand why we were talking about changes to lipstick!
In answer to Ken's question about 5 consecutive ands - I can do this using the phrase "salt and pepper" ;)
A student asked his English teacher how many times could you write “and†consecutively in the same sentence and still be grammatically correct. The teacher answered 5, and told the class about a sign writer who was repainting a new sign outside the Rose and Crown. The landlord came out and asked him to leave a bit more space between the Rose and and and and and Crown.
A student asked the teacher if there should be any commas between and and and and and and and and and.
The teacher replied that, using punctuation, it would more correct to ask if there were any commas between the and and and, and and and, and and and, and and and and and and and.
Or something like that. My brain hurts now.
, ;D
What a load of cobblers, Greyhound! It wasn't the Rose and Crown, it was the Dog and Gun!
my boss's boss e-mailed some feedback on a report earlier this week - the final comment was 'improve the grammer'
... oh the temptation
OH still smarts over one of her teachers making that mistake at a grammar school!
;D
I love this stuff. :) I was comma-mad in school. In American school (we use commas differently I know!) we were taught that you use a comma before and or but if the next clause has a new subject and verb. It made sense to me.
I unfortunately love parentheses too. It's not my fault I don't think in proper sentences right? (and that I then type as I think)
Tina.
The use of the comma? Bring back the semi-colon.... :(
Ah but Lish, the semi-colon is nowt but a stronger comma and its use is definitely not frowned upon ;D
It's very handy in a speech, it gives you time to have a quick sip of water... :D
End of the day....does correct punctuation really matter? REALLY? Yep, I accept that there are sentences where a ',' or whatever can alter the meaning, but...generally? Or is it just a big yawn and irrelevance in modes of communication today?
i too think there should be more use of the semi colon.
that is how i describe the sexing of kittens ;D but no one knows what one looks like now :(
little girlies look like upside down exclamation marks,
little boys look like semi colons ;)
tis true!
the worst i ever saw was a classy sign for a slimming club or summat (you know the sort, painted in black gloss on a piece of cardboard and displayed at random roundabouts?)
apparently not everyone knows what an exclamation mark looks like, so the sign read;
'lose weight fastiiiiiiii
call to find out howiiiiiiii'
or very similar.
i am still laughing about it now ;D
my worst habit that i know of is using lower case permanently.
i am such a rebel :P
Days of the week, months of the year have cap's...not here in Belgium. All in lower case, boy, do I get into trouble over that one!
66 and 99 mistakes used to mean a ruler over the knuckles, these days just a quick smudge of either seems to be accepted.
I've been scared to death of adding anything to this thread because I'm bound to make some mistake's ;D, but I guess a good analogy might be with food: language is a necessary part of life and those who have an interest in it will take care to make the best use of it, as with food. There are of course, varying degrees of enthusiasm, and even obsessions, which are mostly unhelpful. While it gives satisfaction to do it right, I'm not averse to occasionally splitting an infinitive. Or to starting a sentence with a conjunction, just as I'm not too fussy which particular herd of cattle the milk came from when I make white sauce. Those with no interest in food don't die from starvation do they? I suppose what I'm trying to say is, to each their own. Just took a long time to say it. ;D
Geoff.
Quote from: kenkew on January 26, 2007, 18:13:25
66 and 99 mistakes used to mean a ruler over the knuckles, these days just a quick smudge of either seems to be accepted.
ROFL at that.....worthy of Watershed ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lynne Truss's book, "Eats Shoots and Leaves" makes good humous reading about punctuation, as well as being informative.
I think rules regarding punctuation, etc. changes and what was not accepted, say 50 years ago, is OK now. I was taught that using a comma when using "and", the comma should goes after!
Most of the rules I learnt about punctuation were drummed into me whilst learning to type as us girls were expected to correct the boss's errors.
Do do remember many years back my daughter came home with a notice from her school, which we had to sign. My OH was so appalled at the bad English, he corrected it before returning it, much to the embarrassment of daughter!
Quote from: Alishka_Maxwell on January 26, 2007, 19:33:50
Quote from: kenkew on January 26, 2007, 18:13:25
66 and 99 mistakes used to mean a ruler over the knuckles, these days just a quick smudge of either seems to be accepted.
ROFL at that.....worthy of Watershed ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lish....Go and stand in the corner....and take this pointed hat with you! :-*
Nice one, euronerd ;D