Just read post by EJ which reminded me.....What are the pros and cons of having a permanent bed for runner beans? I read in my books how important it is to rotate crops, so are there any benefits in having a permanent bed -apart from being able to have a more substantial support arrangement rigged up which was my plan until I thought maybe I should rotate. Not sure what to do for the best.
Most of the old guard on our allotments have a permanent bed... they are naturally perennial in their home climate (tropics)... they don't have any real pests or diseases if well grown... Ionly rotate out of habit.
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I saved this from a A4A member.
If you really fancy double digging (it`s the quickest way to a bad back later on) by all means do as Gavin suggests, but incorporate as much compostable matter (soft weeds, scrunched up newspapers, cardboard, leaves etc.) as you can into the bottom spit and manure and compost into the top, then never bother to double dig again - it just isn`t necessary for most vegetables.
The exception is runner beans. Make a permanent site for these (don`t rotate it), dig a trench 2 or more feet deep, then backfill, mixing in all your old woollen garments (slow release nitrogen), compost, leaves, newspapers etc. and plenty of bonemeal and allow it to settle over winter. Keep on using this site every year and it will get better and better every year.
Very definitely, and as soon as possible. After all the Runners are (space for space) the most productive crop on the plot and well worth the effort. If you don`t want to sacrifice your old woolly jumpers try and do as I did. Get hold of a couple of old woollen flock mattresses and tip the contents into the bottom of the trench. The old Yorkshire show growers used to use wool shoddy, but I haven`t seen any of that for years.
And if you want a really fantastic bean for quality and crop size try Flare from Marshalls - it`s new this year and it`s the best I`ve ever grown - I`m picking over 10 lbs a week from a 16ft single row
there is absolutely NO necessity for rotating his runner beans, and indeed that a permanent bean trench will not only improve with age, but will result in his runner beans improving year by year.
I have grown beans using the trench methord and it works for me, but next year going for the perment bed, with the wind down lottie I need more support so hoping a perment site will be better for me. No more trenches to dig just top up the one I have.
the great runner bean debate 8) - more ideas (and pics :o) in
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,13137.20
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,9704.0
:)
There are very few places we could put Runners without taking the light from other things.
I also like them along a path so that the trampling of good soil is kept to a minimum.
This helps a lot. Only one area in my garden suitable to grow my runnners , so i was wondering if I could re use it. Thankyou
Quote from: tim on November 01, 2006, 06:43:28
There are very few places we could put Runners without taking the light from other things.
I also like them along a path so that the trampling of good soil is kept to a minimum.
If runners grow in the same place, it saves work erecting and demolishing wigwams and supports every year - QED tim :)
I suppose rotating runners isn't done for the benefit of the beans its done for the benefit of the plants following.
Do permanent beds apply to other bean types as well?
I hope to grow runners and french climbing with sweet peas in a perment A frame bed. Lottie neighbrough gave me a couple of planks to walk on to save the soil also keept the feet clean.
I did wonder if a perment frame and single canes at 45 deg angle would make picking easier possible facing east? any ideas
My runner bean row has been in the same place for 19 years, I have two trenches one for runners and the other for my sweet-peas. I will not plant potatoes or brassicas in the same place two year running but other than that I do not worry.I have never worked in a garden where the owner wanted one third of this and one third of that so book rotation does not work. I use a porous plastic ground cover between the rows for clean walking and weed prevention.
One of our Lotties has a runner bean tunnel along his path... looks great but as I'm about a foot taller I find it a little claustrphobic!
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Oh Saddad the tunnel sounds lovely and easy to pick them, with wigwams and A frames you have to ferret around and always miss some.
laurieuk 19 years growing them whats your secrets/ tips for growing please
Another plot just vacated has an early polytunnel frame... all angular metal bits but would make a great tunnel for climbig squash and beans...
;D
Oh Saddad just give me the address, and I will come and in the dead of night, with black clothing and get it in my swag bag heee hee.
Our lottie they leave electric lawnmowers ( no electric on site) work that one out. But have recycled wooden stakes and plastic cladding perhaps I should put a wish list on my shed door haa haa.
Was asking the same question at the weekend on my allotment, seems most keep the runners in the same place, so I'll be keeping mine in the same place I pulled them up dug a trench put newspaper in the bottom covered with manure then replaced the earth. 19 years Laurieuk that will do for me.
Thanks everyone for your input,just one question remains....Like Glow I wondered if the same applies for french beans and others?
I did watch a program where a chap did have a perment bean trench, I cannot remember if he said he dug it compleatly out each year or only part of it? he did say he used the soil or other parts of lottie.
This way your rotating the soil, should be able to grow all climbers in the same place.
I grow dwarf borlotti in rotation to give a nitrogen boost to the next crop - alliums :)
But tall beans are a nuisance because they shade the beds, I've found a place for them to grow permanently North to South on one end of the plot and will put up a more permanent rig next year.
No great secrets, I grow Stenna always save my own seed. I start the first ones in the greenhouse, first in seed tray then seperate pots, plant out under fleece early April. I use porous hose to keep roots moist which I think is the best way to get flowers to set. Just clearing the last few beans now as we had a frost last night.
Quote from: teresa on November 01, 2006, 17:23:04
Oh Saddad the tunnel sounds lovely and easy to pick them, with wigwams and A frames you have to ferret around and always miss some.
laurieuk 19 years growing them whats your secrets/ tips for growing please
Laurieuk what do you do with your trench? I like the idea of porous pipe for watering, my seeds are unknow var. given them few years ago lovely tasty ones fellow lottie holder found seeds in a old shed. But taste lot better than others I have tired.
I dig out the top spit and then dig any compost etc. into the second spit, mixing well. I replace the top and allow to settle. I think this encourages the roots to go down in search of moisture. I do this for my runners and sweet-peas.The porous hoses are connected to water butts that I fill from butts by the sheds, you can use feed through the pipes as long as it is a liquid form.
Quote from: teresa on November 02, 2006, 14:50:29
Laurieuk what do you do with your trench? I like the idea of porous pipe for watering, my seeds are unknow var. given them few years ago lovely tasty ones fellow lottie holder found seeds in a old shed. But taste lot better than others I have tired.
Quote from: laurieuk on November 02, 2006, 22:39:24
The porous hoses are connected to water butts that I fill from butts by the sheds, you can use feed through the pipes as long as it is a liquid form.
do you sink the hose in the ground?