Hello everyone,
I would like to put forward a question to you all to get some feedback on a problem I'm encountering on my allotment site at the moment.
If you saw something on someone else's plot that you wanted and it didn't appear that the person was using it, would you take it without asking?
My initial response was that I was horrified (and still am) that a person a few plots away had taken my wooden pallets for themselves to hold down tarpaulin, without asking. She approached me yesterday, without a please or thank you, to just inform me that I wasn't around when she needed them so she's taken them. I was so taken aback at the time that I didn't respond in the way I was truly feeling although I told her to put them back when she'd finished using them.
If she'd just asked first of course I wouldn't be feeling this way. Now I'm worried about all the other things on my plot that I've left there that appear to be doing nothing... I'm starting to think that I'm going to have to make certain things (like scaffold boards I actually paid for) 'look' like they're doing a job, even if they're just waiting for me to get round to doing something with them. This has left me feeling very unsettled, as I always assumed from looking around the site too, that whatever you left on your plot was yours and would stay there (with the exception of vandals/tresspassers). Perhaps I'm wrong to assume?
I'd appreciate any other thoughts on this, and possible ways of dealing with it without creating a problem? I helped this woman out a lot to get an allotment and she's tagged on to me as someone she can get a lot out of, every time I'm over there she wants something from me.
Has anyone else had this situation? Thanks.
We often get 2nd hand goods, which may be useful on the plots. The plot holder who brings them would expect to be asked by an other if they could have some. Unless the plot holder 1st offers them to the site.
Thanks Grant... the things on my plot are just for my own use, I don't find enough stuff to provide for others on there. The pallets were there to be made into another compost bin, and one is used as a step up to my current compost bin.
yes, i think the lady in question is perhaps taken your good nature for granted. People should not take other peoples things without asking first, end of story. i would have a qiuet word with her, in a non confrontational way just to make clear that you are not happy with her action.
:o
How dare she????????
It is an unwritten (but strictly adhered to) rule on our site that you do not set foot on someone elses plot without their express permission. Taking anything at all from another plot is definitely not allowed.
I agree with sarah, but only when I am in a good mood...normally I would just go and take back what's mine and point out that it is good manners to ask.
;)
Oh Clay, how horrible! People are such idiots. ::)
I'd actually go over and say, look, I was wondering if you could give me back the pallets. I'm going to do X with them. Then put them back on your plot. If she asks about them again, smile and say cheerily, haven't got around to it yet!
You may also give her suggestions as to where she could get her own pallets. She will feel vaguely miffed but not have a comeback because you are so friendly anyway.
It sounds to me like it would only her who would be that cheeky to take without asking, she feels she can because you have been kind to her in the past.
I agree with what katynewbie said, it is an unwritten rule that you do not go on somebody else's plot without asking.
I don't know what you can do about any of your other stuff going walkies, we all have stuff on our allotments we are going to use at a later date. I think you will have to make it look like it is being used ;)
I think she has well overstepped her mark...cheeky mare. I would be very miffed indeed. I would think you would have to tell her that you hope she's looking for something else to hold down her tarp because you need those pallets back for a project you had in mind,and tell her she needs to ask you first if she wants something and if you aren't around you'd appreciate it if she wouldn't just help herself.
Blimey...some people eh?! I've started putting the latch on my gate at the plot because some kid keeps wandering in unannounced...went right up and into my shed and everything. I was very taken aback. I made allowances for him being young and all that but for goodness sake I wouldn't do that even now. He helps an old guy out a few plots down from me. I don't like it one bit. I mean, I could be up to anything in that shed of mine!!
On our allotment, taking something from someone else's plot is stealing! If you want something it's fine to ask for it - most peeps willingly loan things and are happy to see them used. But no trespassing and filching. Agree with Hels' approach - ask for them back on a given date, to give her time to find something else to hold down her tarps. Hopefully she'll get the message. You don't have to justify yourself at all - it's your business what you keep on your plot, and whether you use it or let it rot! If necessary, have a word with the site sec. so he/she can keep an eye out too >:(
I have lots of things that may not look like I was using but wouldn't expect anyone to just take them. Its a shame you didn't just take them back before she told you she had them then she may of got the message.
I agree with everything that has been said.
I also agree with Katynewbie, I would have fetched them back by now ;D/shades x
This is exactly the problem we've been having on our site. We know that the culprit is one of the Site Sec's friends but until he's caught red-handed, we can't prove anything.
One many occasions, fruit & veg has gone missing, but now planks and manure piles are walking as well.
We managed to get some nice wood from a skip (after asking the builders). When this particular guy saw then, he asked up to give them to him! Recently, he was wandering round the site and spotted someone's runner beans. The plotholder asked if he like to try one. The next day that plotholder arrived to find his beans stripped!
I'm fed up of people taking liberties too.
>:(
On our site if anyone steals from a member they have their tenancy terminated
Thank you all so much for your comments, it's made me feel a lot better knowing that I'm not being ridiculously petty!
I've thought about it a lot today and went over to the plot to arrange things a little differently, so it looks like things are doing a job. I hate the fact that I even have to bother with this, but it's a preventative measure, if anything else goes on like this I won't stay quiet on it.
Yesterday, whilst still in shock, I asked her would she be needing them long as I wanted them back. She mumbled something about by the end of September (she's African, the communication is hard) so I've decided to wait until then. I've seen a picture on one of the threads on here of an interesting wildlife tower made from pallets, I think I might be making one shortly... ;)
I expect there will be further unacceptable requests she'll make of me to come but I can't be all sweetness and light with her if she keeps taking advantage of what was initally me trying to be welcoming and friendly. I just hope there are no repercussions.
Just keep smiling, CC. All the time you are being pleasant but firm she should have no reason for repercussions. She's been jolly lucky for all your input so far, I'd say. Now she's got the hint (we hope) maybe all will be ok.
Does she know that there are loads of pallets to be had from any industrial estate? ;D
Quote from: Emagggie on September 05, 2006, 11:05:49
Just keep smiling, CC. All the time you are being pleasant but firm she should have no reason for repercussions. She's been jolly lucky for all your input so far, I'd say. Now she's got the hint (we hope) maybe all will be ok.
Does she know that there are loads of pallets to be had from any industrial estate? ;D
Thanks Emaggie, I hope you're right.
About the pallets, that's another reason I was so miffed, they're like gold-dust around here, everyone wants them but they're hard to come by. My Dad got me these by chance at his workplace.
I'll leave it until the end of the month and remind her halfway through or so that I'll be needing them back shortly. If she hasn't sorted it herself, and if I'm feeling kind, I'll throw a few stones on the tarp before reclaiming my pallets. What a pallava!
I feel for you cc, I think it's ridiculous that you should even have to make stuff "look" like it's doing a job - for all she knew it could have been there for a reason already!
I wonder if she pilfers from peoples gardens on her way home - same thing isn't it?
If your not doing anything with your weeds you could always give her them !!!
Heeheehee,good idea, Travman. ;D
Bang out of order. I wouldn't try to be nice - tell her not to pinch your stuff. On our site she would be off
I agree completely with what everyone has said previously, and if they were my hard-to-come-by pallets, I'd have taken them back pretty darn quick, BUT, have you thought that this may also be a cultural issue. You say that the lady in question is African. I take that to mean that she's an immigrant. Maybe in her culture there is a different attitude to private space & borrowing stuff. I'm not condoning what she's done, but maybe she just doesn't see it the way we do over here - we are more aware of "boundaries" and "tresspass" in Britain, both physical and emotional.
I only ask because we've had a similar problem at home. We live in a small close of 5 houses & even though our front gardens blend into one another's, we all respect the invisible boundaries. One of the houses is rented by a group of lads, one of whom has a Polish girlfriend. She uses her mobile outside (better reception) and has taken to wandering around and through all our front gardens as she talks. My neighbour found her sitting on his lawn with her back resting against his front wall! All the while, she's having a very animated conversation in Polish! She's so loud, you can't hear the TV!
When we spoke to her about it, we realised that she had absolutely no concept of private gardens. She'd always lived in a flat in Poland and all the outside space was communal. She was simply doing what she'd always done & had no idea that she was behaving unacceptably. She thought that as there were no fences, she could walk & sit where she liked.
Maybe this woman is the same - she maybe has no idea how annoying & shelfish her behaviour is.
On the other hand, she may know full well & just have no shame - in which case, ignore this whole post and take your pallets back!!! ;D
completly agree with all that is said although i have been known to 'BORROW' a wheelbarrow from the odd plot but the allotment holder had said i could borrow at any time and i usualy return it full of compost for them :-) as a thank you.
As our lotties only been there for 18 months we still have a very friendly attmosphere but i have been to other sites to visit people and i have heard some horror tales about how the allotment mafia run sites and how in some green eyed mostors and crime are present in some form either from fellow allotment holders or kids.
Tabbycat, I think you're right, I do think this is a cultural issue. It's a difficult one though, as I said before she always asks me for something every time I see her... unfortunately I didn't help this as at first I was really trying to help her to become an allotment holder as she's desperate for African produce that she can't buy over here. I suppose I felt quite sorry for her really as she's got a small army of children she has to control and English not being her first language, even the term 'allotment' was baffling to her. So, what with finding numbers for her, meeting her to look at plots, writing out forms with her, going to the trading shed to look for someone to rent her a rotovator because she'd miss church if she went herself, lending her tools, going round the houses trying to help her out because I'm such a mug, I find it hard to say "no". Anyway, then she wants me to carry carpet over from her house (I've done my back in) to which I didn't entertain. Then came the request for me to buy her ground cover from the trading shed because again she'd miss church if she went... to wanting ME to measure out her plot to see how much she'd need... it just goes on.
Arrghhh. Sorry everyone for the rant.
Anyway, I find it hard to grasp any culture that accepts this form of take, take, take, as being fair or reasonable. If it is a culture issue such as your Polish neighbour, how do you go about pointing that out without hurting feelings? All I can do is say "no".
You're assuming that you're going to hurt her feelings, when infact she'll probably be quite pragmatic, shrug her shoulders and find someone else to freeload off.
Do your best and the lengths you're prepared to go to to help her (you could even teach each other a new language) but be quite firm about what is acceptable on your plot and what isn't.
at the end of the day this cannot go on forever really, not only is this going to tire you out and possibly make you ill. but your plot will suffer and hers will prosper. You will just have strong and tell her. we had someone on our site and we had bought our rotorvator over to turn the soil over on our first 'proper' day down there. they saw us doing it and said you could do my plotS!!! thought cheeky, no could i borrow or could i help, or offer of money or offer of petrol, just you can do my plotS. Said yes at first not wanting to offend anyone but then realise what he had asked with his 4 plots. grrr, then politley made our excuses. Since then he has still be friendly and talkative and offers verbal advice, but now doesnt take the mick. I think you will have to bite the bullet and tell her :-)
I think that cultural issue or not you can't have her taking advantage of you. She really seems to be the type that will push and push and take and take. I just mentioned the whole different culture thing because it may help you to be able to say no and set out the ground rules of what she can and can't do, but avoid much of the anger or worry that comes with issues like this
Our Polish neighbour wasn't hurt by us explaining about our gardens, she was just happy to have some one explain "the rules" to her. But we went to talk to her, we were very defensive because we just thought she was doing it because she didn't care. It could have got really confrontational.
What I'm trying to say by all this rambling is... if you do go and speak to her about her behaviour, which judging by your last post, you need to, it may not be as bad as you think. As Mrs KP says, she will probably be ok about it and turn her attentions to someone else.
Good luck! :)
African or no, put your foot down and explain, as tactfully as you can, what's acceptable and what isn't. She may have got the idea that this is OK with you, which is why I'm advising tact. What part of Africa is she from? There are a few specific cultures which don't have the concept of private property, but the vast majority do. My wife's African, and I've yet to meet anyone who didn't know the difference between mine and thine, at least in theory. Every culture has its minority of thieves, and they're not gentle with them over there, but I'm not certain this is actually 'taking with the intent to permanently deprive'.
Thanks for everyone's comments, it's been very helpful to have a place to get feedback on something like this.
I haven't seen her on the plot recently, which has helped.
Robert, she is from the Congo, but I know very little of the area, perhaps you could shed some light if this is one of the minority areas that don't define between other people's property.
Thanks again to everyone.
Poor you. I have to second everyone else's thoughts: it looks as if you've been too kind -- pulling back politely is necessary for your own sanity. Come up with reasons to be busy so you can politely turn down her requests to fetch/carry/buy for her.
Has this woman attached herself to you particularly, or is she 'needy' with other plotholders too? I ask because if she is, you may be able to ask your site rep or council allotment rep to have a quiet word. Regardless of cultural issues, she needs to know what is unacceptable in her present environment or she will alienate people at every turn -- not just on the allotment.
It's me again.... ;D
Been thinking about this lots. If it were happening to me, I know that I would have a real problem talking to her about it, because I really don't like confrontation and will go out of my way to avoid it.
One thing I will say is that having worked in London for many years and with many different nationalities, most other nations are way more "up-front" about their feelings than we are. They have absolutely no problem in saying how they feel. It's us British that tie ourselves in knots at the thought of having to do so. we've developed this unspoken, invisible rules of conduct thing that we all grow up with, and most of us stick to. We're very good at not overstepping people's boundaries in anyway, be they mental or physical ones.
As Robert put it so well....
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on September 15, 2006, 12:28:14
I'm not certain this is actually 'taking with the intent to permanently deprive'.
I just think that she maybe takes the attitude that if there was a problem you'd say something and as you haven't then she sees it as OK to carry on asking you to do things and using your lottie stuff.
Tabby
None of the Central Africans I've met have any trouble distinguishing between peoples' property! She may just have the idea you don't mind her borrowing your stuff, that's the only thing. A tactful word would probably sort it.
Got a great idea for you to get your pallets back:
Say you need them and build an extra compost bin or something but utilise them even if you dont use wot you build. Even if you break them down to build a small picket fence and gate around your plot!
You say she only wanted them to hold down a tarpolin. Well to do this you get some carrier bags - fill them with soil (from her plot)- and place as many of them around the tarpolin as required to hold it down secure. This way she no longer has a need for your pallets as she has an alternative weight doing the same job! ;)
Afterwards, each time she asks for something say you need it or are going to use it for blah blah blah
Thanks ktlawson!
Really like the soil in the bag idea, hadn't actually thought of that! :)
I'm new to all this but on my site, we have an area for anything that is "free" to whoever wants it and you can leave things there if you don't want them anymore. This seems to be respected - and there is also a sunday morning shop for seeds and supplies etc and you can donate anything of any value to that to help raise a few pennies for the "shop" etc.
Louise
XX
:D ;D ;D By my reckoning CC she's had your pallets for over 12 weeks now, go and demand them back, no more mister nice guy enough is enough if you don't get them back give us a shout I'll come and get them myself Harrow's not that far >:( >:( >:( >:(
Thanks cornykev!!
You're right, it must be some weeks now, but what with the weather and a lot of decorating to do, I haven't been to the allotments for a while.
I did go to the park at the weekend though, which backs onto the allotments and her plot has completely flooded over the carpet that the (my) pallets are holding down. For all the agro it's caused me, I don't wish that on anyone and won't bother taking any drastic action, at least not at the moment!
To be honest, I feel it's all a bit petty now that the time's gone on... if I need them in Spring I'll get them back then. I just know that I'll be a lot more head-strong if she takes something without asking again.
Where are you then if Harrow's not far? :)
;D I'm in Enfield not far as the CROW flies, but if you need me I'll be RIPE over to help you, I know youv'e BEAN upset so I'll prove I'm no WEED I won't RUNNER way if I have to I will SLUG in out with her careful thou she does't PLANT one on me, anyway as you said we'll LEAF it till the spring.
:) ;) :D ;D :-*
Cornykev... that was funny ;D Thank you, you sound so up for it she might SOIL her pants, but for now I don't want to look like a GRASS, and besides, I've more or less SHED the emotions I had about it. However, it's a kind offer that you'd SHOOT on over, Enfield isn't so far if you have a good ROOT. Hehe ;)
;D At last someone with my sense of humour. ;D :D ;D :D ;) ;) :-* :-*
yes your write about it being yours and they should ask but be warned if you make a fuss dont let happen to you wat happened to me i caught the chairman of our allotment association steeling from my allotment the police were called and he was cautioned for theft but i had to suffer the .association refused my rent the following year and they tryed to evicte me i complained to the parrish councill but got no were and it was only when the nationall alotments associatiuon got involved was the matter resolved but im still under threat
that's bl**dy disgusting, is there no one on your plots that know what's happened and can support you or are they the 'heads down and don't get involved 'type ? :-\
:o :o :o >:( >:( >:( Bang on scousers its f****g discrace, surely plotholders will back you after all it could be their stuff going missing next.The chairman must have been thrown off site ?. Keep a diary of goings on and keep the NAA updated. Good luck
I had comparable problems a few years back. They got sorted in the end; I hope yours do too. It's what happens when some little so-and-so is given too much power.
:D I love it when they get a bit of power and try to abuse,I do love a challenge, I can feel the shop steward coming out in me. >:( >:( >:( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: cornykev on December 01, 2006, 15:59:23
;D At last someone with my sense of humour. ;D :D ;D :D ;) ;) :-* :-*
LETTUCE be friends... (they just get worse...) ;D ;D ;D
;) CORN on over to my place. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
Quote from: cornykev on December 06, 2006, 16:02:12
;) CORN on over to my place. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
Be right CLOVER (someone stop us...)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e220/supersprout/smilies/resist.gif)
;D ;D ;D
MULCH ado about nothing is you ask me ;D
Ok. enough is enough. Bottom line is - have you got'em back yet. If not why not???
If you have when and how???....
:) KT's right, enough is enough march up to her and demand them back tell her you I won't BEE lending you anything again that's SHALLOT.
So are you PLOT-ting your revenge Common-Clay ;)? Or is it THYME to sign a PEAS treaty? Shame about the pallets though, were they in MINT condition?
Can't think of anything but I have had a laugh, just hope you can stop her.
Ha! Really made me laugh with all the posts, just shows how sad I really am ::) ;D
:D :D Only did it to cheer you up CC you sounded down when you first started your post. You see CC a post with no funnys. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D