Hi
can anyone tel me how I can make F1 varieties of chillies?
I have been told I need to cross pollinate 2 varieties, but have been told it is quite a science.
Can anyone give me some advice or a web link to help me out.
Thanks
Quote; have been told it is quite a science.
I am not an expert but I don't think it is so much a science, but more about laboratory conditions.
In other words once the pollen has been tranferred, it is ensuring that no further pollination takes place by insects or wind after this that is key to possible success.
Once the pollen has been tranferred from plant A to plant B and vice versa cover the flower heads with a greaseproof paper bag securing it back to the stem to ensure no insects can creep in and undo what you have done.
Then it is basically let nature take its course.
The next thing is to remove the seed from the hybridised (hopefully) seed and sow as normal.
Now as with all seed sown stuff you might get better or worse results than you started off with.
To ensure you get the one your after you will have to grow on every seedling for fear the one you threw away might be that special one your after.
After all this you might find that what you have is no better than you started with.
If you do find one or two plants that are an improvement on the parent plant then save seed from these, but once again I must emphasise you are not forced to get what you expect particularly if they are open pollinated.
All I can say is have a go, I find it fun, except I grow trees & shrubs and some of these can take up to two years just to germinate but when they do it is a real buzz.
I saw on another thread about potao fruits i.e. the true seed of the potatoe I tried these once and after five years I found the results I had were turning out a poorer quality potato than the one I started with so you see nothing can be taken for granted, but as I say it is fun.
Many amateurs cross chillies, and as plants go they are not difficult to cross.
Before you start the process it is worth remembering that there are many species in the
Capsicum genus.
Chillies have perfect flowers and are self compatible, id est each flower is male and female and can pollinate itself.
What you need to do is remove the petals and stamen from an unopened flower on the plant to be fertilised, so that only the stigmata is left, this is then fertilised using the stamen removed from the other plant. There is no need to protect the petalless flower.
C. annum will cross with
C. Chinense, sometimes with
C. baccatum and
C. frutescens, but never with
C. pubescens.
C. baccatum crosses with
C. annum, with
C. chinense and
C. frutescens only occasionally and never with
C. pubescencs.
C. chinense crosses with
C. annum, occasionally with
C. baccatum and
C. frutescens, but never
C. pubescensC. frutescens crosses occasionally with
C. annum, C. baccatum and
C. chinense but never
C. pubescens
C. pubescens will not cross with other species.
Cross pollination within species will occur easily.
Crosses between
C. annum and
C. chinense are fertile, between
C. frutescens fertilises
C. annum there will be no fertile seeds, but the reverse cross produces some fertile seeds.[/list]
Now when your cross pollinated fruit develops it will appear normal, save the seed from this fruit, if you are happy with the results then this cross is your new F1. To get good quality new seed for your F1 you will always have to cross the parents and save the seed all over again.
However why stop there? It is far more interesting to carry on. However, simply saving the seed from your F1 is not the way forward; it will be gentically weak as every plant in your variety descends from two specific plants. Instead, cross your F1 back with one of its parent varieties (not its actual parent plant as we are after genetic diversity). This produces an F1-BC1 hybrid, that will display a huge degree of variety. Sow as many (inbred) seeds as possible and select plants that exhibit the characteristics you are aiming for, you may even want to cross back with one of the parents again, or even cross with another variety. However try to have some kind of idea of what you are aiming for.
When aiming to save true seed you can cover just a few of the flowers with a small paper bag tied around the stem before the flower opens, it will pollinate itself giving you true seeded fruit. Just ensure you mark the fruits that are true.
Now there is someone whos hot on capsicums :o
Quote;Chillies have perfect flowers and are self compatible
Now I didn't know that! but if I had thought about it, I should have realised considering the number of times I have grown single plants.
But after reading amphibians reply I think I'll just stick to saving seed the way I have always done, and enjoy what I get ;D
WOW
thanks to both you guys for you input.
This chilli crossing is quite a science and with all the different varients on which varieties can be crossed with others it is like a cryptic puzzle!
I only have one flowering plant at the moment, which is a bell pepper, I am just hoping that self pollinates, I have done my best top shake the flower and vibrate it and such. That plant was grown from a supermarket pepper, but it has way outgrown all the other seeds from the pepper I planted, so whether this is a speacially strong plant or just all the others are weak, I am not sure. But it has one flower on it currently, so if I am lucky I may get a pepper!
Back to cross pollinating, from what you guys have said I think should be quite clued up to do it...when I finally get two plants in flower.
Ultimately I would like to breed a super hot pepper, also of interest would be a bell size pepper but hot, and thirdly weird colours and shapes.
I have a prairie fire chilli or treasures red(seems to have 2 names) chilli plant, that has loads of chillies on it, but I never seem to see any flowers the chillies just appear. It did have chillies on it when I bought it but it seems to just keep growing them with no flowers. I am not sure of the latin name for it, but would it be Ok to try and cross it (if it ever flowers) with my bell pepper plant?
Do you know of any good references which tell you the latin name of most popular chillies? most of the pages I have seen have been very scientific and illegible to my amateur eyes!
Thanks again for all the help
QuoteI only have one flowering plant at the moment, which is a bell pepper, I am just hoping that self pollinates, I have done my best top shake the flower and vibrate it and such. That plant was grown from a supermarket pepper, but it has way outgrown all the other seeds from the pepper I planted, so whether this is a speacially strong plant or just all the others are weak, I am not sure. But it has one flower on it currently, so if I am lucky I may get a pepper!
Your supermarket bought pepper is almost certainly an F1, this explains the eratic results, which are typical from F2 (second generation) plants. Seeds saved from this plant will produce equally eratic results, and each subsequent generation is weakened by a very narrow gene pool.
QuoteBack to cross pollinating, from what you guys have said I think should be quite clued up to do it...when I finally get two plants in flower.
Ultimately I would like to breed a super hot pepper, also of interest would be a bell size pepper but hot, and thirdly weird colours and shapes.
When the time comes you need to select plants that exhibit the characteristics you desire both in terms of the variety and the individual plants, ensure the seeds are true before you sow as it is important that the plants you use are stable and have only inbred for many generations, so ensure you obtain your seeds from a reputable source.
QuoteI have a prairie fire chilli or treasures red(seems to have 2 names) chilli plant, that has loads of chillies on it, but I never seem to see any flowers the chillies just appear. It did have chillies on it when I bought it but it seems to just keep growing them with no flowers. I am not sure of the latin name for it, but would it be Ok to try and cross it (if it ever flowers) with my bell pepper plant?
Your bell pepper is almost certainly a
C. annum, as is prairie fire, so they should cross. However, your supermarket bell pepper is likely an F1 (your plant an F2) and as such you will be introducing a third plant into the mix at a very unstable stage. The results would be wildly variant. Which may be interesting, but it might be better to cross a stable plant with your prairie fire; this may necessitate saving some true seed from your prairie fire and growing a new plant, and the other parent, next year.
QuoteDo you know of any good references which tell you the latin name of most popular chillies? most of the pages I have seen have been very scientific and illegible to my amateur eyes!
the chileman database (http://www.thechileman.org/)
If you want to breed them, you'd do better starting with non-F1 varieties which breed true. haven't tried any yet, but you can get them here: http://www.vidaverde.co.uk/ . These will be early varieties which should do well in the UK.
hi
cheers guys for your knowledge.
This is gonna be a long term project, which I will keep you updated on.
The bell Pepper plant that I am growing that out grew all the rest, that you say is now an F2, If I save seed from the peppers it produces and then grow those out I should get some really fast growing and strong bell pepper plants...yeh?
How can I strengthen the genetics of it?
In a few months I should have enough chillies in flower to start experimenting properly.
Thanks again
BTW I have discovered a new way of producing true seeds, instead of removing the petals and hand pollinating, I now do the following.
Cut of the end/corner of a teabag, remove the tea, place the teabag over an unopened flower, tie the gap closed with some thread, leave until the flower has opened, closed again and dropped off into the tea bag, then remove. Tie a bit of thread round the stalk of the pepper, to mark it as a true fruit. You ca re-use the teabag, but only on the same variety.
OK for one or two generations, but if you don't cross-pollinate with other plants of the same variety, you'll get a steady narrowing of the genetic base, and eventually all the problems which result from inbreeding.
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on July 29, 2006, 10:24:27
OK for one or two generations, but if you don't cross-pollinate with other plants of the same variety, you'll get a steady narrowing of the genetic base, and eventually all the problems which result from inbreeding.
I will be mixing the practices, however I do not believe problems will arise as quickly as you suggest
Though tomatoes nearly always self-pollinate.
Some genera are better at managing inbreeding than others, and constant inbreeding of plants which normally require crossbreeding will lead to inferior strains, though not to disaster. It's best to be aware of the potential problem!
Hi again
my bell pepper has finally put on a pepper.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/spavin/bellpepperwitpepper.jpg)
it had a flower which developed into a pepper
it must have self polinated as there are no other pepper
flowers around. This is the really fast growing plant that
I got from the supermarket pepper, so if I plant the seeds from the pepper
that it produces, what can I do to make them genetically stronger?
Also my Prairie Fire chilli plant has come into flower,(see below) it has loads of
little white flowers on it. The flowers are so small, and it is difficult to
tell the parts of the flower appart.
Quote from: amphibian on July 19, 2006, 17:45:29
What you need to do is remove the petals and stamen from an unopened flower on the plant to be fertilised, so that only the stigmata is left, this is then fertilised using the stamen removed from the other plant. There is no need to protect the petalless flower.
is the stigmata the bit in the center of the flower,
and then that would make the bits around that the stamen,
I think that is right from the diagrams i have seen.
I have some purple tiger chillies that i have grown from open
pollinated seed, so I am gonna try and cross that eith the prairie
fire chilli, and see how i get on.
Does it affect the result of the breeding, which plant i grow the fruit
on? The prairie is bought from a market and is a mature plant, whereas the
purple tiger is from good seed but is only a young plant, but still is quite big.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/spavin/comparrison.jpg)
I will keep you updated
peter