- but who cares? I'm SO flaming furious that I can hardly believe my sight.
This is comment on THE lottery following the announcement of the NEW one.
So WE ended up paying for it.
But, in the end, surely a VERY wonderful & worthwhile effort?
thats outragous. how can they say it is not part of our heritage? jeez, youare right to be so idnignant Tim. Without the likes of Tim and all the other who risked and gave their lives in the battle of Britain (soory i am useless with capitals) we would not have much of a heritage left. Pah. >:( I like the monument though, very much. sarah.
Beyond belief. Without all of you we would no longer have a British heritage. >:(
Tim, totally agree!
Where's the monument sited by the way?
On the Embankment - near the RAF Memorial. They took the old underground railway stone ventilation block as a base. http://www.bbm.org.uk/about.htm
1. Please may we leave the me bit out of this - & see it as a matter of principle?
2. Should anyone feel 'that way inclined', & have £10 to spare - it's ISBN 0 - 9551351 - 0 - 9 - a beautifully produced paperback that 'they' sent me recently.
PS This is NOT a 'whip-around' - we've bought it (the Monument!) & it's now there. Cheap at £1.25m!
I share the disgust, frankly I find it despicable. I trust the Lottery decision makers will feel guilty come Armistice Day ?
I just think it is so sad. Who are these unfeeling idiots who make these decisions? On Saturday I read that some of the lottery money is being given to. A...Granada TV (£15,000) towards a gym that stars can use. B..Manchester United will get £30,000
for staff yoga and fitness sessions!!
If these stories are true it is disgusting and in my opinion the general public should have some say in these matters.
Tim. What a wonderful monument.
It's a very powerful monument. In time I'll follow the links to find out the sculptor. To the funding (or lack of it by the Lottery Commission (or whatever they're called)..there's such a lack of public accountability for what is, after all, public funds, it takes one's breath away. Does anyone else agree with my feeling that with this Lottery Lot there always seems to be a sense (factually true or otherwise) of sleaze, handouts, jobs-for-the-boys and the feathering of nests? In this instance, I really do regret that Richard Branson wasn't given the chance to run it - I've always thought him to be an intrinsically decent sort of man and possibly the sort who wouldn't need to have explained to him the aptness of granting funding for this monument.
I totally agree Alishka. It's beyond belief that this has happened, yet I'd never heard about it. There should be a huge public outcry! How can they say it's not part of our heritage? Doen't bear thinking about. But prostitutes and one of the richest football clubs in the world are ok for a handout? Makes me sick.
and just to rub it in Manchester United got £30,000 of lottery money for getting their staff fit (sorry sun was on the screen and i didn't see yit had already been mentioned ) :o
this is the modern way and it sux. :'(
the monument is fantastic - my father was telling me about it today. he can remember standing & watching the spitfires take off & the dogfights. he was born in '34 & stayed in London throughout the war.
i think that the people who are in charge of lottery funding have been SPECIFICALLY chosen because they don't want to acknowledge our history or our culture. there seems to be a general consensus of thought amongst those in power that Britsh history is unimportant and the sacrifice of a whole generation of people, freely made for the love their country is something to be ashamed of.
i don't buy lottery tickets.
the poem below was written by John Gillespie Magee (1922 - 41), who died in WWII. I think that it's almost indescribably beautiful.
High Flight ( An Airman's Ecstasy)
Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds - a done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of:wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sun-lit silence. Hovering there
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless falls of air;
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,
Where never lark nor even eagle flew;
And while, with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
My Wife is always loves that poem.
Lishka - http://www.pauldaysculpture.com/ - trained in Cheltenham!!
pure greed got the better of me when it was a disgusting amount on the euromillions but that was the first lottery ticket i've bought in oh i don't know 10 or more years.
i shall not be buying another and tim do you have a link for "them" and i would be interested in purchasing something. This is very much part of my heritage no matter how much this present shower in power are trying to erase it from our history books.
multi-cultural society ??? how our about celebrating "our" culture ?
it makes me so angry that i have to :-X
Oh flip! My day, which started off so beautifully with the sight of a young dog-fox in his prime in my garden, went on a downward spiral....and now the pome, and thanks tabbycat for giving everyone the opportunity to read it, was the one I chose for a long-forgotten School competition - with that as a subject, how could I not win the cup?......stunned silence, then applause, as I recall.....but it's ended my day with tears.....
Is there a darker Agenda here, I wonder? There were already rumblings about when the sacrifices of WWI veterans were to be edged out into 'history' this year......and now WWII as well?
Hmmmm.
Thanks for the link, btw, Tim. :)
Mrs KP - when I said 'they', I was referring to www.battleofbritain.net/
thanks Tim, exactly what i was hoping for.
Thanks for the link Tim.
Fine sentiments and all...............
But there's other places to post this Tim.
And you know there is.
Quote from: petemac on April 23, 2006, 22:32:08
Fine sentiments and all...............
But there's other places to post this Tim.
And you know there is.
???
With almost 150 viewings and only one dissenter.. ???..seems most appropriate for St. George's Day to me and I thank Tim for supplying the link to a piece of sculpture of which I wasn't aware.
Lish. Quite agree. Didn't know what poster was talking about so just raised an eyebrow and moved on. I suppose free speech and all that, there's always one Lish, unless of course we have misunderstood??
strange post !
obviously a Manchester United supporter ! :P
Pete - since you admit to neither age, gender, appearance, location nor language, it's a bit difficult to frame a reply to your comment. But you do remind me of a recently departed friend of the forum.
I was the first to admit that my choice of location was dicy but, as to content, I felt that it was just as valid as flying simulators or the death of a Pop Star??
P'raps we should not even have mentioned Her majesty's Birthday??
I for one, believe that this post is correctly located, it is general chit chat, with nothing offensive ... and a rewarding thread to boot.
I agree the sculpture should have receive some funding and am appalled about the MUFC and Granada handouts. However please don't be too quick to criticize (Daily Mail style) other grants such as those to prostitute groups, refugees etc. These people rarley chose to be in the situaiton they are in - would you? And it is in everybody's interest that they are supported to make a more positive contribution tosociety and their community and that is the type of activity which usually supported - often by the lottery when many other funders won't.
I agree that it was perhaps an unfortunate comparison, but a point was made??
Quote from: pansy on April 23, 2006, 15:55:38
But prostitutes and one of the richest football clubs in the world are ok for a handout? Makes me sick.
i think the statement about 'the prostitutes' was very abridged in the original snippet, and i have no trouble whatsoever for money to go to a charity that looks after and helps women who have been forced into prostitution and need help getting out.
i also think that the monument should have had some funding - i know how difficult it is to get money from the lottery as we have been involved with building sports facilities that required some funding from sport england (who get a slice of money from the lottery). they fund sports facilities for children which they would otherwise not be able to provide for them.
Quote from: Svea on April 24, 2006, 12:20:42
i think the statement about 'the prostitutes' was very abridged in the original snippet, and i have no trouble whatsoever for money to go to a charity that looks after and helps women who have been forced into prostitution and need help getting out.
i also think that the monument should have had some funding - i know how difficult it is to get money from the lottery as we have been involved with building sports facilities that required some funding from sport england (who get a slice of money from the lottery). they fund sports facilities for children which they would otherwise not be able to provide for them.
Point taken, I hadn't really stopped to think through the prostitutes bit to be honest, or why they'd need any money. Of course as thats why, thats a really good cause so not to be faulted., I apologise for not taking notice of it correctly. Still can't see re Man Utd though!
Is there no way appeals can be made if a request is turned down? Is there no overseeing body ( dont know what to call it, sorry ) like Oftel, Ofgas etc? Seems a real shame.
It may be better in the end to save those still living, rather than commemorate those who aren't?
It was just the ignorant & unnecessary 'slap-in-the-face' for the Monument that got my goat.
Are you forcing yourself to split hairs here Tim? Both are correct in my view.
' ... And in the morning, we will remember them ...' ?
It does seem a bit unnecessary, but then I get annoyed when I find vast sums being spent on monuments and statuary, etc., while people suffer. Having lived and worked in various red light districts over the years, I've found that none of the ladies go into it through free choice, and they all hate it. I felt that particular jibe was uncalled for.
Tim, I agree with curry, there is a place both for public art which enhances people's environment and helps remember the past and obviously funding for activities to help people in difficulties.
Possibly to wind this up - & unwind myself? - it was a friend who got me into this!
All it needed to prevent an explosion was for the Authorities to say that they had so many life-support schemes on their hands that they could not, at at time, help fund a Monument.
And it was, I believe, ill-advised to suggest that the 'event' had no place in history.
As said, the Monument was funded by subscription, which probably means that more people may feel associated with it than had it been stuck up by a grateful Government?
In anyones language, it's well worth a visit!
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on April 24, 2006, 15:27:45
It does seem a bit unnecessary, but then I get annoyed when I find vast sums being spent on monuments and statuary, etc., while people suffer. Having lived and worked in various red light districts over the years, I've found that none of the ladies go into it through free choice, and they all hate it. I felt that particular jibe was uncalled for.
imho we all have a choice. or at least we make our choices and then have to cope with the consequences of our actions.
some cope better than others.
I hope it's appropriate for a newbie to post here, not knowing any of you yet, if it's not I apologise.
I don't think the abused have choices, those not so fortunate as to have an understanding family, I don't think that poor woman who jumped from the Humber Bridge felt she had any choices, it seems very easy to make snap decisions about things we, most certainy I, have no comprehension of.
Tim, a very worthy monument, and each indivdual will have causes they feel need funding.... each pulling for their own beliefs...
No passport needed, Sucellus - but it would be nice to see your 'profile'? Most of ours are open for your inspection. Some way toward an introduction both ways?
PS - again - it was not me looking for my name to be cast in bronze.
I would have been quite happy to have it left off & to give its cost to charity.
I only live in the past when I get drawn into it.
I apologise Tim, profile completed... Nice to make your acquaintance...
Without History, we are without roots.
Welcome Sucellus, the deep end is often the best place to jump in. ;D
I try not to judge people too harshaly but none of us have been free of trials and tribulations and sometimes it's easier to sink than to fight your way out. If these funds are going towards something honestly useful, then i would agree they are money well spent. By the very nature of the lottery though, i have my doubts as to how useful they actually are.
If the men who used these women in the first place looked to themselves and how their actions contributed to the industry, i'd say that was helpful too.
:)
So - to end on a sweet note??
A contemporary of mine.
A cheerful donor.
Just the ticket!!
looks sweet. i am going to have to take a cycle ride round the embankment, maybe on the weekend :)
I hail from the midlands ,46,male,married and stand by my original post.
This site is for Allotment Holders and flower and vegetable enthusiasts.
There are dozens and dozens of sites Tim could of gone to.
If I become maginalised because of it that's to bad,I come on here for advice,not to be preached at.
My apologies to you, Pete - I chose here because I was amongst friends. I've already said that I see the comparison as unfortunate. And I wasn't, as explained, complaining about the lack of funding, or even of a monument but, rather, the reason given.
Adding this later - "in view of the fact that those 3 months changed the course of history & saved this Island from anihilation"
And, by the way, Nelson got a Monument??
I did think that the quote was of as much interest & certainly a lot less offensive than some of the c..p written in the ever popular Watershed.
PS I'm from the Midlands too - so?
Tim, how dare you apologise! You have NOTHING to apologise for. The 99% of posts in your support should have told you that, not some trolling novice!
Pete, you may well be a 46yr old married man hailing from the Midlands but you certainly lack the facilities to show respect, don't you?
If you frequented this board and became familiar with it's layout - as the rest of us have - you would know that The Shed and The Watershed are areas of both gardening and NON gardening chatter matter.
Seems to me it should be YOU apologising! >:(
Pete ...
Quote from: petemac on April 27, 2006, 16:23:37
I come on here for advice,not to be preached at.
Perhaps if you reflect for a moment and consider, is that not what you have been doing? The title of the thread certainly implied it had no horticultural content. We all have the freedom to choose not to read certain threads which we have no interest in, but the variety of threads, including those perhaps unsavoury ones in the Watershed, go to make this the rich, tolerant and entertaining forum that it is.
And long may it continue.
How dare you speak to a very special member of our A4A club like that, Its like Derek said the title said what the post was about. The "shed" is for any chit chat we wish to discuss with friends but not people with attitude, if you do not like what you see look elsewhere do not insult people on this board.
I think you owe Tim an apologie.
There are also dozens and dozens of sights for trolls to go to Byeeeeeee!!!!.
>:(
LIVID.
There is a place for people who want to send things which interest them and it's here and in the Shed. Tim is a valued and respected member of this forum and I agree with rosebud that you owe him an apology at the very least.
If you are unable to handle genuine warmth and openess then this is not the forum for you Pete.
>:(
See? So angry I forgot where I was. I meant, the Watershed and the Shed
:(
"The Shed. Non-allotment related chit chat"
Which is what this thread is.
So sorry, petemac, that you don't find this 'appropriate' for The Shed; my feeling is that you've misunderstood the remit here? We are all gardeners (but not all allotmenteers, which is OK with the site owner) and we become friends. It is here we bring, not only items generally of interest, but also the fears, sorrows, frustrations, celebrations and joys we're experiencing in our 'real' day-to-day lives.....it's here that friendships form beyond that of the love of growing stuff which originally brought us together.
Specific Forums have been given us for specific interests. I'm sure that if you are happy to only ask gardening/cooking/livestock/acquatic/blah-di-blah/ questions, a post from you on the appropriate Forum will engender a quite speedy reply - or two - or more.
If you have a suggestion for a Forum which doesn't yet exist, then Dan has even created a place for you to profer your suggestions..
But The Shed will, surely, remain in the format it does - until such time as Dan, the site owner, decides otherwise.
Sincerely, Alishka
(from the very Middle of the Midlands)
i concur wholeheartedly with what tim, yellow petals, Curry, rosebud, katienewbie and Lishka have posted.
I'm afraid my first response was too littered with f's and *'s so i deleted it.
i don't know what's annoyed me most, the subject of tim's original post or your attitude pete. I'd like to know how coming from the midlands has any relevance at all.
Quote from: MrsKP on April 27, 2006, 20:10:56
I'd like to know how coming from the midlands has any relevance at all.
(big sigh)...because we
KNOW what's what, is why....yeah, OK, we allow yorkshiremen and northerners generally the allusion that they're 'superior' it's a way of keeping simple minds in their place....same for soft southerners..........all nice people, btw...wouldn't like my daughter to marry one, but......
Thing is.....us Midlanders are just........right? Even if we vote left, we're right....
But....some of us are more RIGHT than others......
And I AM RIGHT
Now, seems quite clear to me....
RIGHT?
;D ;D ;D
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ! ::)
:P
And very deliberately moving strongly off topic, the most famous product of the Midlands? Not cars, machine tools, baltis, or even Jasper Carrott (who?), but ...
chocolate ...
NO WONDER a certain addict lives there then ;D
Right...
said Fred!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lish.. Could you please repeat that? This poor old exiled Londoner didn't quite get it. Right? :) ;D ???
(big sigh...posh accent)...right...right...RIGHT..RIGHT?..you gottit now Ower Wench?....
RIGHT!!!
An there'll be no talking that I'm wrong, geddit?
>:(
;D ;D ;D
;D
Lishka, you sent me some chocolate...how could you EVER be wrong?!!
;)
you're right again as usual bint !!!!
;D
I've only been here a little over a week but can i just say that i love this site precisely BECAUSE we can discuss other topics other than horticulture. :)
By reading everyone's posts on ALL the boards, i get a real sense of talking with individuals rather than just some user name who knows the answer to my questions.
There's another gardening forum out there (not an allotment one) that i have visited as a guest and they are terrifying! All you get is just the answer to the question - no sense of individuals, no sense of humour and most of all no tolerance for anybody even a little bit less than expert. :(
what you posted Tim was perfectly OK and you shouldn't have to apologise. It sparked a lively exchange of views, alerted many of us to a beautiful piece of sculpture that may have been otherwise missed and maybe made some of us reflect on how lucky we are to be able to choose to live, work and garden on such a lovely piece of this planet.
Tabbycat
I'm big enough to issue a apology.
I'm sorry if Iv'e caused offence.
Right Ower Pete.......an from this minit on,peeps, Ower Pete is OK, stamped made-in-Bermingum - Centre of Excellence........RIGHT? ;D
Pete.......whatever you thought initially about this thread, it was your sincere thought, and no trolling, obv.....likewise, I'd hope, no hard feelings from this BRILL society of friends who will welcome you......shall we move on, everyone?
RIGHT?
Cheers! Lish x
fancy a piece of choclit pete ?
Quote from: MrsKP on April 27, 2006, 22:41:11
fancy a piece of choclit pete ?
OOOOahhh Norty!! Deffo a Watershed proposal ::) ;D ;D ;D
Tim, I think you have posted this in the perfect place!
People who go on the forums connected with the Battle of Britain are enthusiasts who probably already know about the memorial, you have brought is to the attention of a wider group of people and I for one am really glad.
I am off to London on Saturday and will make a special trip to see it, I am so glad to know it exists, as I knew nothing about it before. These people gave up so much or took chances that we be free.
thank you.
Only if it's Bournville Dark
I`v got black choccie love it here you are then , just one little piece oh alright two thats it, hands off. ::)
Something I have not tasted for years, is ... white chocolate ...
Didn't offend me, Pete. (Note the addition to my last post)
And are you more Midlands than THIS??
WOW TIM.
I'm also sure this was the right place for Tim to post - amongst friends. Here in Belgium wher i have lived since 1991, every village and town has a monument to those lost in the two world wars. The one in my village remembers by name those lost as soldiers, shot as civilians or deported to labour camps. For the 60th anniversary of VE Day themonument was cleaned and the names were picked out in gold leaf.
In Brussels,there are monuments to the armed forces and, amongst others, a statue of Montgomery who liberated the city and has a square named after him and a statue of Edith Cavell who also has a hospital named after her. Across Belgium there are cemetries and monuments for the fallen of all the armed forces who fought to defend and later liberate the country. These men and women are remembered with pride and gratitude and every Nov 11th wreaths are laid on the monuments and in the cemetries by the local dignitaries and representatives of veterans and the citizens.
I find it baffling that Britain does less and outrageous that a memorial to the Battle of Britain has to be funded from public donation but at least this allows indivduals to express their feelings on this which can only be a good thing.
can't think of a more appropriate place, Tim..thanks
I'm having a jolly boys outing to London on Monday, to the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre, I'm going to try very very hard to find a way on our route back to the airport to visit the memorial.
edit: just googled maps and found that the monument is literally about 10mins away from our venue. I am DEFINITELY "getting lost" on the way back to the tube to go and find it.
Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top Obbelix !
;D
Was just going to have a word about Watershedlike comment here - & then saw that I had started it!!
Hope you enjoy it KP - nice to have ones name there rather than cut into a school desk?
Do you like this one??
tim, I know I probably should, but can you tell me the name of that gentleman. He was obviously casting his mind back.
I've just been reading through the site again there. Did you know the national government of the Czech Republic was a major donor ! ???
Have only just spotted this and apologies but haven't had time to read all the comments. This sentiment has been aired before but in my view, anyone who could possible say this is 'not part of our heritage' is too stupid and inept to be in charge of any money whatsoever.
CL x (with steam coming out of her ears!) ::)
This is a wonderful memorial!
KP - He's one I don't know. There were quite a few! I shall ask.
That's a really lovely photo Tim X
Must check out this one too.
I think those 2 photos belong together ;D
fantastic pics. where would we be without them ?
Wonderful, this cyber thing - just heard from the Chap who knows, & should be otherwise enjoying His cup of Scotch, that:
1. Jack Toombs - died last month.
2. Albert Gregory.
Salt of the Earth?
I wonder if I saw Mr Toombs on the tv then, his face is very familiar !
I hope that's someone's "Uncle Albert". He looks like a splendid chap.
Heros one and all.
Joanne Are you going to manage any pics that you can post for us all to see.. Hope so.
Lorna, am definitely going to try and remember to take the camera, but a 4.30am start might be too much for the old brain to cope with.
If I manage to get there and take any, then I most definitely will post them. If i'm not let off the leash on this visit, then the OH and I will definitely make it at some stage.
I think the detail is outstanding. have a good look at the bob website and that of the sculptor. amazing pic.
My daughter, (aged 40) took my dad (aged 92 and a WW2 RAF veteran) to London specifically to see this sculpture. They both wept.
Thanks, Tim.
Paul Day - Cheltenham trained, of course!!
I have to say that my favourite bits are the London scenes - & the Pilot's 'lineshoot'!!
tim, i managed to abscond for a brief "flying visit". dragged a willing partner with me and had a good 10 mins or so before we had to run off and catch our flight.
It really is an amazing piece. The detail is quite awesome and I was so glad that I'd read up about it beforehand. It made the visit all the more poignant.
I took some pics but the photos on the sculptor's website are just as good ( ;D) so I won't post them here.
If anyone wants to see mine, just pm me with your email address and I'll mail them to you.
Thanks for letting us know about this tim, if it wasn't for you, I'd never have known it was there.
MrsKP
Joanne So glad you managed to visit the monument. Would still like to see your pics please. You have my Yahoo mail address. Many thanks. Lorna.
Tim, bit behind with this one but you're absolutely right to be angry, the lottery funding idea is a joke and as someone (sorry, read too many posts to remember who) said the committee seem to have been chosen specifically to have no interest in the culture and history of Britain. It's a really beautiful monument, all war monuments move me and this one is no exception. as a child I was 'dragged' round this type of thing and was moved then but didn't understand why. I'm so glad my family instilled this sense of our past and where I've come from in me, and I am trying to do the same for my girls, like the famous words, lest we forget.
Tabby cat, that poem is so beautiful. I had it years ago and lent the book to a friend and never got it back. Haven't heard it for so long.