Have read a few comments recently on quantities grown in order to keep a family supplied in fruit & veg for most of the year.
I try to be self sufficient, but seem to run out about now - breaks my heart, but I am buying potatoes, onions, carrots and just today had to buy peas. I have about 350 sq metres of allotment, with probably about 300 sq metres that is actual growing space, when you take out paths, shed, compost heap etc. I worked out that each square metre has to produce about 3.5 kg to keep us fed. I think it's about right?
Working on the government's recommended 5 portions of fruit and veg a day, I guess that must equate to about a kg a day, approx 7kg per week, 350 kg per year per person - so for a family of three, that's over a tonne a year, mostly harvested in the 24 weeks between June and November. On average then, roughly 50 kg a week during this busy period.
How do others cope with trying to feed the family? And do you actually achieve a wide variety of fruit and veg?
Thank you for that arithmetic Jen ! That explains why I feel exhausted with shifting so much produce!
I too try and feed the family completely, and feel very conscious of when vegetables start getting collected from our local Morrisons ... We have in excess of 12 cu ft of freezer space, which is not enough when the gluts start ...
Interesting stuff Jenny, I helped my Dad-in-law clear his plot again a year ago after he recovered from a long illness and operation. I am now in training (his apprentice!)with a view to inheriting his plot when he is too old to manage it.
He is convinced that we can use the 10 metre x 50 metre area to feed us pretty much all year round and we both feel that growing our own veg will become more important than ever as time goes on.
We still have onions in nets and beans of all varieties in the freezer. Parsnips and leeks are still in the ground. But potatoes ran out ages ago, and we have been buying all sorts of vegetables of late between the two families. If we are to feed ourselves all year round, we will have to get much smarter with the planning. We have had quite a few crops fail which hasn't helped, but we are concentrating on crop protection this yearin order to beat carrot fly, pigeons, caterpillars and slugs!!
Just a suggestion - my spuds ran out in Feb last year too but they were Desiree and getting lots of shoots. So I grew some Golden Wonder as main crop and some pink fir apple as both these were advertised as good long term keepers. I didn't start using them until a few weeks ago. They are both holding well, very tasty and versatileand no sprouts yet - and I reckon I will just about last until the new spuds come through.
I think a lot is down to variety - seek out heavy croppers, and things that will keep very well.
This is a very interesting thread, for it highlights different approaches to maximising produce. To endeavour to be as self sufficient as possible ...? Is this best achieved by having produce for most of the year? Or by having the best range of produce available? Or identifying the most nutritious produce and concentrating on that? Freezing produce requires energy in the form of electricity. Drying and bottling are methods of preservation with their own problems.
I am not rambling, just throwing down ideas on different perspectives as to what could be considered the optimum for getting the most from a plot. I hope this is not taking the thread off topic :)
Just a thought-5 portions-do you know what constitutes a portion?-I do cos I am on this diet/muscle building programme. One piece of fruit is a portion,a handful of veg is a portion-and just to go off topic a portion of cheese is four playing dice-grief!!!that is not enough for a mouse.
And my ruddy neck aches from pushing iron last night. ???
Well, for fruit and veg, I reckon a portion is 200g - that's how I got to the 1kg/person/day. Actualy weighed some stuff: Large apple 210g, banana 180g, Onion 200g, avocado pear 220g, conference pear 240g - and no, I didn't grow it all.. but you do get more bulk of veg for the weight than meat, so increasing your veg helps you feel less hungry. Somewhere or other I read that for protein requirements, you need about a gramme per day per kg of body weight, so if you weigh 70 kg, then you nead 70g of protein. Approx 100g of meat provides approx 25g, pint of skimmed milk approx 15g and so on. We eat far too much protein, most is wasted.
As regards your neck - my advice - forget the iron - get yourself a tumble dryer and plenty of hangers. Hate ironing, may do a bit once a month or so, when really pushed. I just tumble dry and hang quickly. :)
This is intriguing folks,
how many kg of spuds does one need to plant? Do you all use all four options to plant early and later varieties of earlies, and early and late maincrop?
Which spuds have been deemed to last the longest without sprouting :-\ is llight deprevation not sufficient to stop this? ???
Fascinating thread Jenny. John Jeavons (US biointensive guru) reckons to grow enough for one person in 240 sq ft, and for a family of four in 1,302 sq ft (including paths), with a six month growing season. An allotment like mine of 20m x 10m has 1,800 sq ft.
JJ's annual plan has the following (no. of plants) for his six-month season:
7 dwarf fruit trees (plum, pear, apple, apricot, peach, 2 x cherry)
8 broccoli
4 brussels sprouts
16 cabbage
4 caulis
28 head lettuce
48 leaf lettuce
43 carrots
36 beetroot (cylindra)
36 spinach
9 parsley + 3 parsley to overwinter, later
27 sweet potatoes
1,500 peas
3 bulbs garlic
39 onion sets
10 radish
16 chard
74 early corn
28 'regular' tomatoes
224 bush beans
144 bush lima beans (whatever these are ???)
18 cucumbers
4 dill (weed)
4 pumpkin
4 sunflowers
4 basil
7 zucchini
4 aubergine
18 green peppers
12 cantaloupes
12 honeydew melons
12 midget watermelons
248 potatoes
11 winter head lettuce
55 winter leaf lettuce
1 winter broccoli
15 winter cabbage
10 winter chard
37 winter spinach
and he still finds room for stock, calendula, cosmos and zinnias in his plan!
We might want a different quantity (only 3 bulbs garlic!!!) or mix of veg in the UK (e.g. strawberries, leeks, rhubub, runner beans, asparagus, globe artichokes, parsnips, salsify, seakale, celeriac etc etc). His climate might be more like Jersey than the Borders. But some useful ideas, he gets his sq ft to work hard by:
Planting crops that give high yield/sq ft (perhaps that explains why no seakale ;D)
Intermediate transplanting from seed trays into 'flats' to save space, and doing the final transplant when other crops are dug up
Successively planting the same area, e.g. when peas and carrots come out, planting the melon plants
Using cool root cellars or clamps for winter storage to free up bed space
Food for thought, perhaps. More on the biointensive approach at http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/GROW-BIOINTENSIVE.html
Portions are relatively small. I ate nearly a whole head of broccoli (bought! :( ) the other day and I reckon it was at least three.
As for the quantities needed for veg self-sufficiency, let me look at home for my 1940's Amateur Gardening guide (about the size of a Collins Gem guide) which was published for Grow for Victory and I recall it having lists of how much to grow for a family of four etc etc.
Will try and remember to look tonight (I hasten to add that unlike Tim, I wasn't around at the time, the book was my Grandad's!)
On the glut problem and running out of freezer space, I resorted last autumn to bottling veg to solve the problem. Have only just go round to cracking my first jars of ratatouille and passata and they have stored perfectly. I made the sauces, put into sterilised jars (including the lids!) and then boiled them in a stockpot for 25 minutes to sterilise further. Times do vary (I used the HMSO preserving book) but I am pleased. I already bottled fruit such as gooseberries and rhubarb, as both can be stored in a syrup and then used for instant pie fillings! (And are good for transporting to appreciative rellies too!)
websites which might help with fruit bottling:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5343.html (this one I use a lot!)
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5338.html
moonbells
And to think that today I'm throwing out 20-30 perfect Kilner & Le Parfait jars which I can no longer keep up with. Sad - SO much nicer than freezing. And you can't put the Parfait jars out for recycling because of the wire hinges- so I have to pay someone to take them to the tip!!
You are? Where precisely are you! I'll happily recycle them!
moonbells
For most people i think Its hard to be self sufficient in every thing all year round, I've still got another sack and a half of spuds to go - but my carrots run out ages ago.. Problem is with quite few things is that they dont keep very well, and dont always freeze well and taste far better fresh.
I think it best to try and grow a wide variety of veg so that you always have somthing on the go, and live with the fact that your allotment might not be able to provide you with everything you can buy in a supermarket all year round.
Agree with keef would love to be self sufficient all year round but not at the cost of quality.
We will still have to go to the supermarket for meat and other consumables etc so until I can completely cut this trip out I wont worry about having to buy a few carrots or potatoes.
A very interesting topic though.
And would like to see some UK adaptions of supersprouts list - I dont even know the size of my lottie!
Tim - very sad to here about the jars :'(
For most of us the primary reason for having an allotment is leisure and pleasure. Having accepted that, the nature of allotment gardening is that it becomes a central part of our lifestyle, and aspirations of self-sufficiency are a natural extension of that approach.
Tim!!!!- Don't throw those jars out!- Check out freecycle, they are a group of local yahoo groups where you can post stuff that you don't need anymore and people come and pick it up.....oh, and everythings free.
Its a brilliant site, we've shifted loads of stuff that I thought was only good for the tip but is now being reused.
Please try it, if everyone freecycled then landfills would be a lot smaller...
Rant over.
Truff
1. Too far, Moonbells - see my profile!
2. Too late, Truffle - too impatient! But daughter has rescued some for her painting classes to wash brushes in! But love your link!
3. Should this thread not be edited & put into a sticky or other reference place??
Unfortunately we are now on farm shop spuds, but will agree with an earlier comment, Pink Fur Apple spuds are great keepers and didn't sprout at all!
I aim to be as self sufficient as possible, as pracitically as possible. So I freeze what is freezeable - even if this involves making soups, stocks, stews and sauces, and I preserve as much as I can in jars, so pickles, chutneys, jams and bottled fruits.
Then I have my onions, shallots and garlics all stored, and even with my lousy white rot, I just about manage to have enough onions - and as soon as they get thin on the ground, I grow around 250 leeks to keep my in alliums for the rest of the season.
I grow lots and lots of roots which can be left in the ground, or in a clamp over winter. Parsnips, celeriac, carrots, beetroots, and hopefully swedes this year. I will have just enough of all of these as the new baby roots are ready for picking.
I also aim to have lots and lots of greens - so staggered sowings of cabbages, spinach, chards, hardy lettuce, kale, brocolli and caulis. These, if picked carefully, will provide us with enough green veg from late summer until late spring when the new season young greens will be ready.
Okay, so I don't have radish and cucumbers during the winter, but I could probably grow radish in troughs in the greenhouse.
I grow far to many squashes, which I can use to bulk up soups and stews and mashed potato over the winter, and I always end up throwing some onto the compost heap as the new seasons courgettes start to glut!
I have 2 apple trees on the plot, and another 3 in the garden, so we have plenty of apples until after Christmas, after that I have plenty of frozen apple to use for pies and crumbles, same with all of my fruit. I have raspberries, strawbs, black and red currants, jostaberries, alpine strawbs, figs (altho only get a few) and hopefully this will be the first year for my pears. I also ravage the hedgerows and pick as much free fruit as possible which ends up preserved in one way or another.
All I have to buy from the farm shop is my spuds, caulis at the moment, apples for lunch boxes, bananas and oranges.
I am not scientific or precise with my numbers or planting plans, I just aim to make sure my allotment is always 75% in use, even in the bleak midwinter,and I aim for my freezer and pantry to always be 75% full of preserved fruit and veg. :)
What spirit!!
Not a bad suggestion on the protein Jen-I work on 0.75g per lb body weight-and that`s a lot!!(Steph mixes his metric with Imperial).Skimmed milk seems to be the answer-yuck. But cheaper than protein shakes.
Quote from: tim on March 08, 2006, 17:52:01
1. Too far, Moonbells - see my profile!
2. Too late, Truffle - too impatient! But daughter has rescued some for her painting classes to wash brushes in!
3. Should this thread not be edited & put into a sticky or other reference place??
oh - was off on Friday and have Friend with birthday in Bristol so I was thinking I could do a recycling run en route!
pity - I've been trying to get a few proper Kilner jars for ages (you can't get them any more, just inferior replicas)
:)
moonbells (now to find the book with the quantities in)
SEE MY PM!
QuoteAn allotment like mine of 20m x 10m has 1,800 sq ft.
This year will be my first full season, having started very late last year.
If I had any aspirations I would try very hard to emulate EJ, ;D , I stand in awe of your achievements.
Sadly I am still working and feel sure that this will effect my self sufficiency.
Would be very interested to know approx how many kg of spuds you put in and the number of onions, shallots and garlic?
John Jeavons list from supersprout I find fascinating, it seems be be highly subjective and I am sure we would all adapt the list, I shall try !!
I am glad this has generated some interest, lots of lovely replies here. Very impressed!
Flowerlady, for the potatoes, this may be not the best way to judge it - but I reckon one seed potato generates 2 or 3 meals for our family, so I work it out that way. The same with shallots, because they split, I reckon one seed shallot gives me enough for a meal. Other onions, well, how many do we use use a week? the sets just provide one, so that's straightforward to work out.
I suppose the veg I most appreciate and seem to get best results from are the french beans - they always seem to do well, and they are so dear to buy in the shops, and freeze so well - either as green beans whole, or cut into little pieces, or frozen as green haricots vert.
What an interesting thread!
I'm just looking @ chest freezers at the moment ready for the 'harvest'.
After 2 years on the allotment we've decided that we didn't grow enough of everything to last all year round (although it seemed a lot at the time) and like some of you, I DETEST AND BEGRUDGE buying vegetables!
If you've got the growing room and the time, in my opinion it's well worth growing twice as much as you THINK you NEED ... after all, the price of 2 beetroot seeds isn't much more than the price of 1! That's the main reason we've taken on an extra veg allotment this year and although it'll be twice the work, it'll save me having 'shop-vegetable buying rage' ;D
This is a very good book for ideas on storing:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1903998255/qid=1141908242/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-0012524-1530843
And a hint on freezing veg: Instead of just freezing the individual veg (like I did for the last 2 years!) make up the actual meals that they will be used in i.e. pies, soups, stews etc. and do 'veg mixes' in bags instead of just one type.
And always label it well! HOW many times have I taken a bag of green mush out of the freezer andf thought "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?" :D
Excellent suggestion on the 'mixed veg' idea in the freezer. It becomes a bit of a chore to wade around in the bottom of the chest freezer to search for beans, carrots and peas, and often we end up just having what we grab hold of. This coming year I must remember to keep some of the veg in boxes so they can be mixed and bagged.
If I had less room for my root cellar I would store 'mixed veg' in one bin - carrots, parsnips, beet - and take pot luck like that.
Forgot to add ... ALSO pre-prepare and freeze veg. side dishes. e.g. carrots in orange juice, garlic, cider; red cabbage with apple and red wine etc. . They keep really well!
Curry - a little old friend of ours fell into hers!
What an interesting thread. :)
The reason for my allotment is just to have some really good, fresh veg. I hadn't considered being completely self sufficient.
However, yesterday, in Sainsbury's, I bought 6 carrots, a tray of brocolli and cauliflower mix, and a bag of 'new' potatoes - cost £4.15!! So I am begining to think about not just the fresh stuff but also the keeping of it for use later in the year. :o
Interesting, that the veg cost £4.15 but the four pork chops cost under £2.50 when you take into account that they were bogoff.
My chest freezer is 9 cu ft Tim, big enough for ME to fall into, and the bottom seems a very long reach away. I hope your friend was not alarmed by the episode !
hi cate :) unlike some hardy folk on this thread, I don't try to be self sufficient in spuds, onions or carrots - but enjoy some home-grown ones for the freshness and taste. But I do live in the East of England where you can get bags of spuds and onions for a pound or two, and 'dirty' carrots, from farm shops or smallholders who sell from the roadside. If you can get these staples in bulk from places like these, you can save a fortune. Mine are stored in a cold room or in the cold cellar. With the staples taken care of, you can have fun with veggies where freshness is all, or which are just fun to grow.
I recommend the HMSO book Home Preservation of Fruit and Vegetables, which I found out about on a thread here somewhere! Needless to say, it was Tim who mentioned it - haven't thanked you properly for this, Tim! Great book! Thankyou!
Here is the thread:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,12824.0
I bought the book - photocopied though it was! And found something that covers basics up to jam problems (and how to fix them), times of boiling, freezing, microwave jams and has all sorts of recipes (including four for marmalade!)
It was first published aeons ago before there were domestic freezers, and has been updated over the years to take new tech into account.
My copy has all the middle pages back to front cos someone mucked up the photocopying!!! ::) ::)
moonbells
To keep my lot fed I'd need several greenhouses, since they're all addicted to warm-climate veg. I can manage sweetcorn, and tomatoes to some extent; this year I'll try aubergines as well (which go by the African name of 'jublocks' with us).
An extract from ‘ Your kitchen garden ‘ by George Seddon
Quote
An area of 100 sq. yds. Should provide a family of four with adequate lettuces, runner beans, peas, carrots and turnips in summer, and with leeks, cabbages and sprouts in winter. To be self supporting in most vegetables, given a family with hearty appetites, four times as much ground, 400 sq.yds. would be needed. The average English allotment measures 300 sq. yds.. Further land would be required for potatoes, 100 sq. yds. Or more depending on the family’s fondness for them
Unquote
The method of gardening described in the book is what I would call traditional, i.e. vegetables planted in rows and thinned out as per the seed packet.
I intend to use a variation of the square foot gardening method. In the sfg method you plant a different type of vegetable in each sq. foot of ground in a raised bed, me I use raised beds and will use the spacing recommended in sfg, but I have the same veg in the whole bed e.g. my carrot bed is 4’ by 10’ and is totally planted with carrots. This method of gardening (it is claimed) produces five times the crop that you would get with traditional methods.
So you should only need 1/5th of the land. Using the above figures where you need 400 for veg, 100 for potatoes, a total of 500 sq. yds, with sfg you now only need 100 sq. yds to achieve the same results. If you have a normal size lottie of 300 sq. yds., you can feed 12 people for one year.
OK these aren’t my figures and the last 10 years I’ve been using raised beds, but planting traditionally within those beds. This is the first year of using the spacing recommend in sfg.
http://www.squarefootgardening.com/
Well, am going to grow slightly less potatoes this year, as supersprout says, they can be bought fairly cheaply and stored - but can't NOT grow my Anya, so love the taste.
Would love a polytunnel too Robert - no room unfortunately - do envy EJ and her bananas etc!
The HMSO book is not one I have so will look out for that, see if I can pick it up secondhand Moonbells - was it a photocopy you bought from Amazon? sounds odd?
Another book to put on my list then, Your Kitchen Garden sounds good Mike. I find the projected output from the sfg method a little daunting though! Maybe I'll have a go at a trial area, the spring onions I grow in a square after all, but they are ok sown thickly. Will be interested to know how you have got on at the end of the year.
Jennym - the book seems to have some weird copyright - you can also order it from the HMSO or whatever it's called now, and again it's a copy. But Amazon's postage was cheaper (esp when I added a couple of others I wanted!) so I got it from there!
Not that it matters - it's pretty much solid text and therefore in some ways better value for money than something with 1/3 information and 2/3 fluff or pictures.
moonbells
Mike, reading through your approach to sfg ... I am intrigued as to how it can achieve up to 5 times the yield as by conventional methods ... then a realisation struck me. With traditional 'linear' gardening, a lot of the space is not turned over to crops, but left 'fallow' ie as access around the plants, and not productive. This traditional method allows the land to sustain growth year upon year with some added nutrients in the form of manure, compost, chemicals etc. To increase yields dramatically as claimed, means the soil is also being robbed of the nutrients at an accordingly similar rate, which must deplete later crops, unless the nutrients can be restored by heavy replenishment. Therefore I can only see intensive cropping using sfg approaches working in the short term, ie not sustainable for most gardeners. In simple terms, the soil is not an infinite resource and the time and energy to replace the nutrients is not feasible.
Please be aware here, I am not being critical of sfg, I am just being cautious of 'claims' for fantastic gains over conventional methods. I also accept that conventional methods are not necessarily 'efficient' but have evolved over centuries to suit local demands.
This is a really interesting thread.
We have a family of 6 and 2 allotments but I work full-time and I am the allotment holder. I have had lots of successes but also failures. Sometimes I can't go to the allotment for a week or more because of pressure of work ( or at the moment because of the weather) and things wilt and don't really recover.
I still have potatoes, parsnips, savoy cabbage, some pigeon blasted broccoli and jam - raspberry, strawberry and blackcurrant + some frozen fruit - mainly rhubarb and raspberries - + some broad beans and runner beans. We're on our last root of garlic.
I don't really aspire to be self sufficient but I'm happier feeding my family stuff from the lottie.
moonbells, the dig for victory booklets are online - use google to find them.
not only was there a generel booklet but something like a monthly 'diary' publication, too
Quote from: Curry on March 10, 2006, 20:44:24
Please be aware here, I am not being critical of sfg, I am just being cautious of 'claims' for fantastic gains over conventional methods. I also accept that conventional methods are not necessarily 'efficient' but have evolved over centuries to suit local demands.
Hi Curry,
First things first, be as critical of sfg or any other methods or techniques that I might suggest if you don't agree with them. Fortunately I'm old enough to realise that a criticism of my methods is not a criticism of me personally. The method of planting that I'm trying is more on the lines of the raised bed principles which can be found in any modern gardening book with all of its advantages explained there. The sfg just tends to tighten up on planting distances. The author Mel Bartholomew claims that he has been gardening by this method since 1978, which is nearly 30 years with no problems with soil fertility. Having said that on his site this year he is recommending in making your own soil mix so perhaps he is now experiencing problems, but still this is after 30 years.
Lastly if you don't try new methods how can you advance? I can always go back to the traditional methods if it fails.
Couldn't agree more Mike B. You have to experiment to progress.
mel b reccommends that you fertilise each sq ft after each harvest to support the heavy cropping. he also mulches with compost and the like. the reason mel mixes his own soil is because the sfg approach does not use your regular soil. each 4 ft bed is lined with weed suppressant membrane and then filled with his soil mix. they are simply 4 sft containers if you like. i have used the sfg approach for the past 2 years. it has its advantages as well as its disavantages. this year, on a new plot i have taken over, i will combine some sfg techniques with tradtional methods. the best of both worlds as i see it. the MAJOR advatage of sfg is the block planting, as there is less space wastage. i will be using this method for most crops on my new plot where beds measure 1m x 5m.