Allotments 4 All

Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: scumpy on February 05, 2006, 21:45:57

Title: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: scumpy on February 05, 2006, 21:45:57
Sorry this may be a basic question for some but i have not found any clear guidelines for liming the soil.
All the bits I've read say it's a good idea but I'm still confussed (Usual state)
Can anyone offer some simple advise,
types of plants needing lime?
how much?
When?

Scumpy
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: katynewbie on February 05, 2006, 23:14:00
;D

Tsk...wish someone would answer...I want to know too!!!!
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: flowerlady on February 05, 2006, 23:53:10
hi there,

.... lime is needed for your brassicas, cabbage sprouts etc, but only if the soil is too acid. 

Try this  ;)

http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1104/limingsoils.asp
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: growmore on February 06, 2006, 00:37:09
I think the usual practice with lime is if you use the 3 year rotation plan you lime the beds the brassicas are going in ..Usually it is done in autumn or winter for the following spring...So the ground is limed every 3 years...I prefer to use a Ph meter and lime when it is needed I think we will find we differ on this one see what others think ..Here is what i would say is a rule of thumb guide to liming..
The only thing I lime every year is the onion bed ,Onions like lime..
Give your onion bed a liberal sprinkling about a fortnight before You set Your onions .Rake it in just before you set them .... I use a little shovel straight into bag and just spread it making sure if there is any wind it's blowing away from You.
see what others say ......cheers ..Jim
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Bryan on February 06, 2006, 07:13:17
Your question regarding lime, for what, i have just taken over a double plot, and just over a spades depth there is clay. It is dark in colour, so not that bad, but does become very claggy when digging. I want to lime my plot, as i have heard and read that it will break or thin the clay. I wanted to post a question regarding this, but it seemed pointless as i could put it into your posting, hope you dont mind. If anyone has suggestions, and you have a similar problem, we will both be helped, regards Bryan.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: fbgrifter on February 06, 2006, 07:29:30
Lime does have an effect on clay, but you won't really notice that much.

Lime takes at least 6 months to alter the soil pH.

Do not add compost or manure to limed soil within 3 months of the lime application as it causes the loss of nitrogen.

I lime my very acid soil in autumn on the legume bed ready for brassicas the following year which then can be manured without altering nutrient content of soil.

Gosh its complicated.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Larkspur on February 06, 2006, 08:15:37
Do a soil ph test first. Not knowing where you are in the country no one can advise you about liming, since in some areas you may already have very alkaline soil.
If you have acid soil you will have to decide whether the need for altering the soils ph is greater than the need to add organic matter to improve the soil structure and fertility. The advice given above is, of course correct. Lime for onions and brassicas. There are two absolute do nots with lime. Do not add it at the same time as adding manure and do not lime land that is going to be used for potatoes.
I think you best bet is to do a ph test and then come back to this board with the results of that and some idea of what crops you are going to grow and you will get more specific advice. Cheers :)
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: grawrc on February 06, 2006, 17:11:49
Can only repeat what others have said. You must do a ph test before liming at all. Then only lime for brassica.

To improve clay add compost, manure (organic matter) and grit. Leaf mould is great for improving soil too.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: kenkew on February 06, 2006, 17:15:56
If you find you do need to add lime, it's not too late. But do it now!
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Paulines7 on February 06, 2006, 19:46:13
Growmore mentioned a Ph meter in a previous post.  Are they any good?  In the past I have used the soil test kits but having seen a meter in one of the magazines, I am very tempted to buy it.  Is there any particular brand that I should buy or are they all about the same?  Can you please also let me know how accurate they are.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on February 06, 2006, 22:22:54
Dunno how accurate they are but mine is pretty consistent. It's a lot easier to use than the more traditional methods.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: scumpy on February 07, 2006, 13:45:15
Thanks for the replies.

Anyone recommend a good make for a PH meter or are the soil testing kits better?

Scumpy
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on February 07, 2006, 17:33:31
Mine came from Homebase. I'm not sure what make it is; I've had it for years.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Zippy Seale on February 07, 2006, 18:25:51
I got my test kit and ph meter off ebay.  they are both made by tenax. 
I tested for ph and for N (Nitrogen) K ( Potassium) and P (Phosphourus)
in fact there is a couple on ebay now.
]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-in-1-SOIL-TESTING-KITS-x-2-Check-pH-and-NPK-levels_W0QQitemZ7738939147QQcategoryZ20540QQcmdZViewItem] (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-in-1-SOIL-TESTING-KITS-x-2-Check-pH-and-NPK-levels_W0QQitemZ7738939147QQcategoryZ20540QQcmdZViewItem)
this is for two full kits.
extra test capsules are available from serveral online shops.
it will give you an idea what they look like.
i did ph test and then used my meter.  both gave same reading.
b&Q, homebase and garden centres do meters and test kits.
good luck.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Paulines7 on February 08, 2006, 17:04:56
Thanks folks for your information on Ph meters.  I will buy one next time I am at Homebase.



Added today:  OH went to B&Q last night and bought a Ph and moisture tester for £6.98, so now I am off out around the garden to try it out.
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Paulines7 on February 09, 2006, 20:40:50
OK Folks, I tested the Ph of my soil today and as expected, it was 7. 
Ideal for onions I know but what about root veggies such as carrots and parsnips? 

I put bark chippings around my courgettes, French and runner beans last year to suppress the weeds. Would this lower the Ph eventually if I carry on doing it?  I also use home made compost from the heap but this is mainly made from grass cuttings.  Is there anything else I should add to the soil to lower the Ph please?
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: growmore on February 10, 2006, 09:36:29
Your soil at 7 is neutral I wish I had this reading all over my lotty .. Nutrients are not locked up in soil between  (as a guide say) 6.7 to 7.2 . so Your soil is ideal for most plants Personally I wouldn't try to lower it  unless You are wanting to grow Erracacious shrubs like azaleas etc or fruit like blueberries .. see what others think ..Jim..
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Larkspur on February 10, 2006, 09:43:30
Hi Paulines7,
you must be the envy of most people on here. As growmore says unless you want to grow very specific items I would try to maimtain it as it is by crop rotation, manuring and liming. Lucky you ;D
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: growmore on February 10, 2006, 09:52:38
I hope I am not sounding like teaching my granny to suck eggs (.hope this aint just a Yorkie expression ).But after watching a bloke use a Ph probe about 3 weeks ago and  he got same reading where ever he put it on his allotment  ..He then asked me to check it again for him with My meter ...I got different readings to his so I said try my meter he just pushed it into soil and meter didn't move.. You need to wet  the  spot where You   are using Your  meter, trowel it about a little then press soil down with Your heel, then insert probe of meter into this  .. How do others do it?. Jim
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: MikeB on February 10, 2006, 10:05:06
Quote from: growmore on February 10, 2006, 09:52:38
I hope I am not sounding like teaching my granny to suck eggs,

A hole at each end was the answer given in london. 

To get back to the thread, the instructions given with my Ph meter were ' remove the top 2 inches of soil, loosen the soil to adepth of 5-6 inches with a trowel, pour in water and mix until you have a muddy mixture.  Insert probe, wait 2 minutes and then take your reading.

MikeB
Title: Re: Lime, When, how much, for what
Post by: Paulines7 on February 10, 2006, 10:20:53
Quote from: Larkspur on February 10, 2006, 09:43:30
.... I would try to maintain it as it is by crop rotation, manuring and liming. Lucky you ;D

The only manure it gets is from the chickens as they are part of the crop rotation.  I think I read somewhere that chicken poo contains lime.  Does anyone know if this is true?  

Growmore, I didn't wet the soil as it was already damp so perhaps I should try it again today.  The reason that I didn't add water to the soil yesterday as per the instructions, is that I thought it might give a false reading if I used water from the mains.  I will try again today using water from three different sources, kitchen tap, water butt and pond.

Result same as yesterday....7