Okay, following a similar thread to BL's wedding thread....We are a non-religious family, however, daughter number one has decided she would like to be christened. We never had the kids christened because we wanted it to be their choice when they were old enough to understand. The local lady vicar visits her school weekly and has prayers and holds assemblies and Daughter loves this. Also, there was a pretend christening at the church where the lady Vicar christened a doll so those who hadn't been could experience it.
So, my garbled questions are, would the vicar christen number one daughter even though we do not, and have no intention of going to church? Would she be expected to go? I know all churches are different, but I also know some of you are very knowledgeable about things like this so thought I would start with you so I know what is usually what.
p.s. I was christened as a baby because my nan insisted. My sister wasn't because my mum refused to send me to Sunday school.
Depends on the vicar. You don't say how old your daughter is, but if she's old enough to get involved on her own initiative, then your beliefs would probably be irrelevant. The most they could do would be to ask her to wait a few years.
Lady vicar sounds nice, why not talk the whole thing through with her?
CLx
(I was christened RC but go to Cof E when I do go, they're a lot more 'user-friendly!)
She is only 6 Robert . To be honest, I think she thinks it is a glamorous thing to do! Our lady vicar is great, and all the kids love her. As I have no ideas about the comings and goings of a church, I just wondered if there were any rules and regulations regarding christenings.
EJ, come on...so ASK her (lady vicar). straight. If she' not receptive/open-minded, you're not going to want her influencing your daughter are you?
CLx
It would amaze me if they wouldn't christen her EJ ,especially if the vicar has had dealings with all the children at their school. She sounds okay if she has done things like christen a doll in her church etc. Only thing is if it is CofE then your daughter would have to have two godmothers and one godfather to take care of her spiritual welfare. The vicar at the church we used to go to was fairly strict about them both being baptised and confirmed. Our last experience was 28 years ago mind, so I am just presuming things are the same.
It will totally astound me if in a situation like this she is refused a baptism, and it would concern me that some churches don't seem to embrace people like they should, in my opinion. I hope I won't be shot down in flames for saying that :-\ Excuse me if I mention our situation again EJ, but I think if my young people aren't allowed to get married in church they will be less likely to have any of their babies baptised there either, as they will feel unwelcome. Perhaps I am being a bit premature and if this vicar is as nice as she sounds then she will welcome your daughter and there will be no problem. It's worth arranging a meeting. Hope it works out okay. :) busy_lizzie
No judgement intended here - just information (from my point of view and experience) ...
Christening is essentially infant baptism, where the infant has little or no say in the matter and little understanding of the meaning/implications. That is why the parents and godparents promise before God to guide the child in the aspects of christian living, to pray for the child regularly and to bring that child to church regularly. If you don't intend to do that then are you really wise to promise God that you will? (even if I am wrong and God doesn't actually exist, you are being wholly dishonest to yourself).
Baptism symbolises the rebirth (born again) aspect of christian life where a person is born into the family of God. Confirmation is the follow up stage to infant christening where the individual confirms that he/she agrees with the baptism set up by the parents/gardians. Alternatively, any individual can be baptised as an adult (often in the same service in which they are confirmed (immediately following the baptism)) and that act can be far more meaningful to an adult than it is to a child - it can be far more disturbing too!
I was christened as a baby (don't remember it), and then as child and adolescent rejected all thing christian until my mid 20's when I was confronted by Christ and was convinced that he was who he said he was and could deliver on what he said he could and would do. Even so, I was unsure whether I want to be confirmed to please my family (specifically my Mother and Mother-in-law) or because I really believed and wanted to show that belief to all who wanted to see (confirmation). Some others being 'done' at the same time were baptised (because they had not been confirmed) and the whole process seemed to mean so much to them.
I guess that I am saying that infant baptism is really for the parents benefit, although your sprog is 6 years and a tad older than normal and would clearly have a better (but childlike) understanding of the process/implications. There are things that you promise to do and you really owe it to yourself (and your child) to keep those promises.
Thank you so much Bionic. You have explained very clearly what a christening is all about. Things are much clearer now.
Some ministers are more open than others; some will baptise all comers, some insist on the parents turning up to church for a period, whiich to my mind just encourages hypocrisy. Older people are baptised once they commit themselves, if it hasn't been done before; six might be considered a bit young, but it depends on the child and the vicar.
Infant baptism isn't really for the parents' benefit. It may or may not go back to the New Testament church; they baptised households, and households normally include children. In that culture, when the head of the household converted, the rest would have been expected to follow his religion, but there's no actual proof either way.
What is certain is that many of the Fathers held something like Augustine's view, which became the orthodoxy of the Western Church. We all inherit Adam's sin in a rather literal way; the soul was inherited from the father along with the bodily characteristics; the mother merely incubated the father's seed, and contributed nothing of her own. Of course, the soul we inherit was inevitably guilty of the sins of the fathers. That guilt could only be washed away by baptism. Outside the church, which was compared to Noah's ark, a sanctuary tossnig about on the waters of sin, there was no possibility of salvation. A newborn baby dying unbaptised was outside the church, which was enterd through baptism, and therefore, according to Augustine, went straight to hell. It was a slightly less unpleasant part of hell, known as 'limbo', but he was convinced that it was hell. It's a horrible doctrine, and I can't stand his theology anyway, but you see why baptism was essential for the infant's sake!
Aha. I have to say, this is one of the joys of this site. Ask me about veggies, and I can answer most things - right or wrong, but ask me about religion, and I know nothing! I ask, and you lot come to my rescue! I am learning lots. I feel it would be hypocritical of me to get the kids christened as I do not believe. My mind is in turmoil! She hasn't mentioned it for a while, but I don't think the Vicar has been in as she has been away on her hols....I think this is going to become a househld discussion...and debate!
Thanks for the info you chaps, it really is very interesting, and I am learning about something I am in the dark to, which is a bonus!
It is interesting and I respect everyones views; religion is a deeply personal thing. I hope you don't mind EJ if I show a pic of the vicar who married me and my OH. Like you and Mark, my husband is a non believer, but Father Hodgson and he got on like a house on fire and they had absolutely brilliant debates, sometimes over a glass of communion wine! Although it was generally frowned on by his Bishop, he used to do exorcisms and had amazing experiences doing that. He loved people and embraced everyone, everybody was welcome and no one was excluded from his church.
He moved parishes by the time we had our son, but he invited us to his new church so he could baptise Matthew which was very special. When my daughter was born he was keen to also baptise Gillie but by that time he had retired and it wasn't the thing to be a guest vicar in a church, so he could only come as a guest to the christening. The pic is 28 years old and quite cracked because Gillie loved it and was always showing people, Father Hodgson. Sadly he died quite a few years ago, but what a lovely man. busy_lizzie