I am seriously considering keeping a couple of hens prob only 2-4, my son is a vegitarian (hes only 10) and would like free range eggs, as well as a pet or two, the trouble is I dont know a lot about keeping them, also my hubby is not an animal lover of any kind and is worried about the damage they would do to the lawn/garden. I've told him that they would be good at getting rid of slugs and small weeds etc., but would they damage my veggies on the veggie patch when running free during the day??? Basically are they worth it ? and what about bird flu ?
Hey B7jac! We've just been talking bout this in the livestock bit, scroll up to toppish... :) And hellooo ;D
If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
don't get wild bird droppings in your run...which is the way it will travel if it
does travel.
I have seen a few posts from people in doubt as to whether they should start to keep chickens given that bird flu has now reached Turkey. :-\ My own view is that if you haven't already got chickens then don't start until we know what we are dealing with. Setting up facilities for keeping poultry is very expensive and could be more so if in a year or so if the stock has to be destroyed, not to mention any threat to people who have been in contact with the birds.
The people who have already got poultry will have to decide what is best for them and I rather think this will depend on how far the virus spreads. The day when we hear it has arrived in Great Britain will be a very sad day for us all, but I can see it coming. I have 15 chickens all of whom have been incubated and raised by me. I look on them as pets and the thought of putting them down is awful but it would be even more horrendous if they got bird flu and it spread to my grandchildren, the rest of the family and to neighbours.
There are difficult choices for those who already have their chickens but for those thinking about it.............. I would say forget it!
Pauline I think that is good advice. Better to wait a while longer than go through trauma that would follow should the bird flu ever reach our shores (God forbid)
Yep, that's the conclusion we came to...we are putting off getting chooks til the situation resolves itself. :-\
Quote from: jaggythistle on January 07, 2006, 13:18:51
  If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
  you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
  don't get wild bird droppings in your run...
That's what my mum did. She lives in Belgium where they made it compulsary to keep chickens under cover a few months ago.
check out http://www.omlet.co.uk
yes, i realise these stylish egg-loos are expensive, but:
their section on keeping chickens and ducks is really very good, i find. well explained to the beginner (you dont have to buy their hen-house ;))
happy reading :)
I have hens. Fifteen of them now. I have a pen for them which has netting all around it to deter the wild birds getting in and they are soon to be getting a roof. I'm ready to keep them indoors if needs be. I decided to go ahead with getting my chickens because I thought if I waited around for what might happen in the future I'd never try anything. Yes it's a concern,I read what I can about it...not  the newspapers,from other sources such as chook forums. I'd be down on about 4 months experience too by now , I'm still learning and enjoying it immensely.
:)
According to the research I have read and relying on my memory bird flu was first discovered in china in 1997. If you're going to wait until it all goes away you might have a very long wait as each year the migratory birds will pose a risk. From what I understand (this is my understanding and I'm prepared to be corrected on this) bird flu is quite difficult to catch, the virus lives in the birds digestion tract and must be inhaled to infect a new host. When bird poop dries out then the virus can become airborne (unlikely to happen in damp wet weather) and can be inhaled to infect a new host. So my hens would have to inhale the virus from dried wild bird poop from a bird that is infected with the flu, my hen becomes infected, then my hen's poop would have to become dry and be inhaled by me. I would have thought then, that I stand and equal risk of being infected directly from wild birds, for example when I put food out on the bird table in my garden, dried poop on the table, wind blows, I breathe it in. Maybe I'm wrong but at the moment I'm not terribly concerned about the bird flu, I'm more concerned about it mutating and being able to spread from human to human as it would spread much more quickly that way. :)
edit...forgot to say, they will wreck your garden and veg patch if left to free range in a garden that isn't huge. Ours are in the run and get let out when I'm around to supervise and chase them away from the flowers. Depending how big your garden is, they can destroy your lawn as well. Best option would be to have some sort of run and only let them out when you're around to supervise.
There is plenty of advice on the DEFRA web page concerning bird flu and the actions that should be taken by those who keep chickens. I found this useful pamphlet entitled "Preparing for Avian Influenza - Separating flocks from wild birds" It is dated Dec 2005.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/pdf/separating.pdf
I am lucky enough to have an old chicken shed 370 ft long. Many years ago, long before we bought our house, the chicken shed was a battery for broilers. There is no way I would coop my chickens up like that but I could partition part of it off so they have lots of space and maybe have a small door which would allow them access to a netted area on grass.
At the moment, they are housed in another old shed and have access to large runs and sometimes the paddock. Many wild birds especially sparrows, come to share their corn and water. We also have swallows that nest in their shed every year. In view of this I think I must move them asp and certainly before the swallows arrive.
What is the alternative? I would hate to have to destroy them!
Last year I decided that I would keep a couple of chickens in part of my garden that is fenced off (it used to be my veggie patch before I got an allotment). The plan was to build a chicken hut etc and to let them run free range around the other part of the land. However Bird Flu has made me think twice too, so I am glad this topic has arisen. I didn't know whether I was being a bit paranoid so thanks for the web site on the pamphlet. It seems such a shame to have to cover them up when for years I have been advocating and buying free range and organic eggs thinking it was the most humane way to keep hens, but if the threat is real there does seem no other choice. Will be disappointed if I don't go ahead but perhaps It would be safer to build a polytunnel there instead. busy_lizzie
Yes it really is a worry especially now its hit Turkey. We haven't let ours 100% free range since the warning signs a couple of months ago. They have the henhouse and a secure outside bit that we covered with old double glazed units, to stop the wild bird poops. I read somewherre that we are protected with us been an island. A sick bird could'nt make it from mainland Europe to here. Lets hope.Pauline you should try to not let your hens share food with the wild birds.
Quote from: northener on January 10, 2006, 20:05:26
Pauline you should try to not let your hens share food with the wild birds.
Impossible with the way I have things set up. The sparrows fly into the shed and eat the corn. Hubbie and I have definitely decided to move them into the big shed so at the weekend, we will go and inspect the potential new quarters and decide what we will have to do to set everything up. What bothers me though is that the big shed doesn't get any sunlight and can be quite dark at times so there may be quite a bit of work and expense involved if we have to start taking some of the asbestos roof off or putting in more windows.
Quote from: jaggythistle on January 07, 2006, 13:18:51
  If you do as I was suggesting in the livestock section...it lessens the risk
  you could cover your runs with see through corragated plastic.... then you
  don't get wild bird droppings in your run...
Covering the run may stop your birds catching flu when it does arrive in the UK but the sad fact is if it gets anywhere near your birds (range unknown but think 10's of miles) I imagine all chickens will have to be culled anyway - indoors or not.
I imagine the only people who will get away without a local cull will be the indoor battery farmers that due to the nature of their intense methods can guarantee that their birds will not be at risk - how ironic is that?
Mm, I'm not allowed chickens at the moment - the other half works quite closely with the hospital's emergency planners / microbiologists, so he's a bit twitched with all the planning they've been doing. So we're going to wait and see what happens.. :(
Might have to get a goat instead.
Or a few sheep.. Hm.
Melanie
It is worring about the bird flu, I have hens and treat them as pets.
but all animals have illiness that cannot be treated.
Many years ago we had something similar with hens, then the foot and mouth, luckly we dont get rabies here and we all know about rabbits.
In humans its aids so everything that has a heart and lungs and breaths can catch something bad which can kill.
By all accounts wild birds drinking from the same water as hens the hens can catch something ( cannot think what it is) but a few drops of cider vinigar in the water will fix it.
Hope this helps some of you. I wish I could remember what sorry.
I heard a report on radio 4 this morning (Today) in which some boffin explained that there isn no migratory bird route between China or Vietnam and Turkey. Whate ther are though are roads and trains. He suspects the virus is being transmitted through transportation of fowl and inadequate safety precautions and checks - as you would expect in these countries.
Once here it may well spread through wild bird populations and migration but sensible precautions should contain it. The human victims in Turkey have all handled infected birds or played in poop infested areas without knowing about the risks or the need for extra careful personal hygiene or even basic hand washing.
The UK govt claims to have measures in place to deal with the problem when it arrives. You need to decide whether or not you trust them - after the foot and mouth fiasco - and whether or not you can find enough information to take sensible precautions yourself. Somebody somewhere needs to keep a healthy stock of poultry for restocking afterwards. Can't imagine a world without eggs and Chrsitmas turkeys really.
Check this site out.
It would be great if the cure was this simple what do you think.
http://p072.ezboard.com/fbackyardchickensfrm8.showMessage?topicID=2351.topic
I did a search and these are the results.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=bird+flu+germany+sauerkraut&spell=1
Looks like there could be something in it.
That sounds promising! :)
I read about sauerkraut in Practical Poultry magazine last month. Wouldn't it be great if it really does work.
www.practicalpoultry.co.uk There is a forum there with lots of debate about the avian flu.
I keep veering from level headed concern to feeling fear and then back to a level head.
I have told my son not to talk about his hens too much at school for fear of any backlash towards him. Really sad about telling him that because he absolutely loves the chickens.
Oh Heldi,
your son must be worried bless him.
But in China - Vietnam and Turkey from what I have heard that if a chicken dies they just eat it. At least here we are more concerned about health issues. The conditions they are kept not like ours with vitiamin sub to keep them in top conditions and clean conditions.
I even read this morning if your hens look off colour feed them with cat food. Yes its the fish oils and minerials again so just boost their imune systems even the pickled cabbage is a booster.
Hi teresa!
My son has been worried. He saw a report on Newsround or Blue Peter. I'd not mentioned it to him thinking I didn't need to yet. I've told him we have to look after our hens as best we can,keeping them as safe as possible and also keep ourselves clean and wash our hands after we've been to the allotment. We do that anyway but I just reinforced it.
One of our cockerels wasn't looking very well a few weeks back. It was Dennis,my son's favourite. We were really concerned as he stopped crowing and moped about,rough looking feathers. All the allotment people who have hens kept telling us to kill him,that he'd infect the rest of the hens,doom and gloom etc.Except for one, who told us to give him a dose of cod liver oil. I'd also just read in a poultry book about giving some olive oil and giving the crop a massage. We did that. We also put cod liver oil in the water for about a week. Den started to pick up within a couple of days and is back on form now.Standing tall and making a terrific noise. All the hens look in great condition,glossy feathers, bright eyes and a perky attitude!
We use the apple cider vinegar once a month for a week and are keeping with a dose of cod liver oil every now and again.
Hi All,
I was not sure where to put this message until I saw this topic.
With regard to bird flu, I read an article recently that an Israeli virologist had laboratory tested Sambucus Nigra (Elderberry) on the H5N1 virus and found it to be 99% effective.
Elderberry has high amounts of Sialic Acid which prevents the virus from penetrating the cell walls, it is also effective against the original avian flu virus and human forms of flu virus.
The reason that domestic fowl are more susceptible to this virus is due to them having low amounts of Sialic Acid in their system.
Wild fowl and birds in general have a much more varied diet and tend to have higher amounts of this acid in their systems thereby affording them a greater degree of protection.
It also has to be said that in Asia domestic fowl have poor diets and have always been highly susceptible to bird flu, and the reason for the cross over to humans is that the people live in very close proximity to their birds.
Anyone concerned about their chickens should add dried Elderberry to the feed or purchase Sambucol; this is an Elderberry concentrate which can be added to their water.
I would also suggest the Homeopathic nosodes:-
Oscillococcinum 30C
Aviare Bacillinum 30C
These remedies will stimulate the immune systems of your domestic fowl and in conjunction with the Elderberries should give them a far greater chance of survival if H5N1 virus reaches the UK.
These remedies to be purchased in the liquid dropper bottle form and added to the drinking water once every 3 weeks in 3 drop doses.
These remedies can be purchased from any reputable Homeopathic Pharmacy and will stimulate the immune systems of your birds.
I think that Sambucol can be purchased in health food stores, but you will need to check that out.
I hope this information will aid you in protecting your domestic fowl and allay some of the hysteria generated by the Media and drug companies.
PREMTAL
So in elderberry season perhaps I'll pick a load and freeze them, that way I can give the hens some berries each day (defrosted of course) with their greens through the winter and spring months.
That is a very interesting post Premtal. Looking for anything positive concerning bird flu. Good old Elderberry. The power of plants never ceases to amaze me.
My chickens have an Elderberry tree in their run which gives them shade in the summer and berries in the autumn. It's good to know that it could also protect them agains Bird Flu.
That's great. I think I'll try to plant one in my chooks pen. Might need reinforced chicken defences at first but if the Elderberry gets away it'll be a great benefit. Thanks for the idea Pauline!
Hmm very interesting. Is Elderberry the one with white flowers then Pea sized berrys {posh petit pot that is]
That's it northener, white fragrant flowers in the spring and dark/black berries in the late summer/autumn.
Here it is N.
heehee! It propagates so easily !
Hi All,
I should have added this note to my previous reply.
What actually kills the birds and humans affected by the H5N1 virus is that their immune systems go into overdrive in the fight against the virus.
This has the unfortunate effect of causing their immune systems to produce too much Nitric Acid which burns holes in the lungs resulting in their death.
This can be prevented by giving Cod Liver Oil as this causes the immune system to calm down thus reducing the production of Nitric Acid by the immune system.
It would seem beneficial therefore to include regular doses of Cod Liver Oil with the Elderberries as a prophylactic remedy to the virus.
PREMTAL
Thanks again Premtal. Excellent information.
We give our hens a dose of cod liver oil in their water or on their food every now and again. Atleast once a week I would say. Having seen a very poorly looking cockerel return to full vigour after having a dose of olive oil down his gullet,a massage and then cod liver oil for a week. I would fully recommend it for anyone with chickens. Everyone on the allotments recommended killing him apart from one guy who told us about the cod liver oil.
If we are giving the chooks some mashed potato or pasta we put a couple of slugs (for 15 chooks) of cod liver oil in the bowl and mix it in..easy! We have bought a big bottle of the stuff from a farm produce shop. It is a horse sized one and is less expensive in the long run. Chickens are galloping about and taking jumps like professionals lol!
Hi, Heldi,
Chickens are quite susceptible to respiratory diseases this is why in my first reply I suggested the Homeopathic nosodes:-
Oscillococcinum 30C
Aviare Bacillinum 30C
At the end of the day it is the immune system which protects the body and these remedies tone the immune system to a level which affords the body a strong defensive mechanism against attack.
Glad to be able to help, I know that kept animals tend to become family very quickly and as such their wellfare is of great importance to you.
PREMTAL
Hi Heldi,
You may find this an interesting addition to your pharmacy for the treatment of your chickens.
1 Garlic bulb separated into cloves peeled and minced.
1 pint of cod liver oil.
Put minced garlic and cod liver oil into a glass jar which has a lid seal, place in a warm position for 3 days.
Shake jar vigorously once daily, strain through unbleached muslin or cotton, bottle and keep in a cool position.
This was used as a regular tonic for poultry in America back in the 50's
PREMTAL
Hi All,
I thought it might be of use to add some information on herbs which will help to maintain the health of your chickens.
Feed your chickens with elder flowers in the spring and dry the autumn berries for winter feed.
The fruits of hawthorn and rosehips should also be dried and crushed for adding to the feed.
Seaweed can also be dried and added to the feed, fresh comfrey leaves should also be supplied, these are excellent glandular tonics.
I have also found out that molasses added to the feed on a regular basis stimulates their immune system against disease.
I hope this information will be of some help to you. ;)
PREMTAL