Hi all,
I've got quite a few potatoes left in storage from this summer/autumn - and many of them are starting to sprout quite enormous shoots.
I usually buy new every year (and have in fact already ordered all I'll need for next year) but I was wondering whether it's worth me planting out a few?
In particular I have a lot of Pink Fir - amazing crop this year. I'm going to plant a few of these out to see how they grow.
Anyone any idea if I have success - I assume we're only told to buy new each year because of disease build up??
Tony
I did it this year with great success. People must have kept their own seed years ago, and the only real problem I know of was blight. But then, the Irish were growing very susceptible verieties from what I can discover. I think it's a matter of taking care, and not keeping seed after an outbreak of disease.
I think if economy is an important issue, then I think it is relatively risk free to replant for one year, although I presume the risk increases with time. Or am I merely displaying my ignorance, and is the risk constant ? I know people who always replant their old spuds and never have problems.
I always save some pink firs for seed..they seem to do ok and grow well..Jim
Thanks for the views - I'll certainly give it a go, just to see what happens - maybe just one or two of each variety in a spare bed.
I'll try to remember to post about the results!
Tony
The reason for not planting your own saved seed is indeed related to the propagation of disease.
The seed will grow without any problem, it is designed to do that BUT it will carry forward any disease that the plant picked up in the previous year.
The most common is blight and each year the majority of outbreaks of blight are traced back to home saved seed, volunteers (the tubers that you missed and have grown into plants) and old tubers thrown away.
Given the price of seed potato it isn't worth the risk to your own crops and those of neighbours and nay farmers in the area whose business maybe damaged.
Please don't save you own seed if you can obtain new certified seed
Phil
How should you deal with heritage varieties then?
Can these not be sustained from the fruits ...
The tubers can be treated with fungicides, kept isolated, then observed for signs of blight over a period. However, there is more than one strain of blight, and some strains show complete resistance to certain fungicides. Tests can be done to establish whether this fungus or any other disease, fungal, viral or bacterial, is present. Tubers that are found to be healthy can then be used for propagation, usually using micropropagation techniques.
The actual seed is less likely to transmit certain diseases, but not necessarily disease free.
There is a lot of ongoing research on plant diseases, and info can be found at British Society for Plant Pathology http://www.bspp.org.uk/ and at Scottish Crop Research Institute http://www.scri.sari.ac.uk/SCRI/Web/Site/home/ResearchAreas/MechanismsProcesses/PPI/PhytophthoraInfestansGenome.asp
I doubt whether potato varieties will come true from seed. There must be a way of keeping obscure varieties going.
I have read that you use the seed fromt he fruits to develop new varieties and that the only way to keep variety consistent is to use seed potatoes. The seed fromthe fruit will produce different types of potato based on the parent plant for instance if you collect seed from King Ed fruits and plant it, you will end up with early, 2nd early and late varieties that have properties similar to King Eds and others with different properties - eg blight resistance, less foliage etc. These new tubours have to be planted on before their properties become apparent - i.e. the earlies foliage dies off early thus you have an early variety. Ones with the disired properties are then further propagated using seed potatoes and becomes a new variety.
Hope that makes sense - written in about 3 sittings whilst having arguement with mardy obstructive 14yo.
When you use a tuber, it's like taking a cutting - you get a clone of the parent plant and so it has the same characteristics.
When you use seed, yes, the characteristics of the seed and the resulting plant can vary if the parent plant has been openly pollinated, but if you are actively breeding, you control the pollination process closely. So, you would only allow the same plants to be in the same controlled environment, thereby preventing cross pollination.
So does this mean, in controlled pollination, you will get true plants ... ?
I do NOT understand why every year again people would like to take the enormous RISK of growing potatoes (cheap) and than end up with a disease in the soil.
Here in the Netherlands we have had BIG PROBLEMS with potatoes and diseases, so much that we were NOT ALLOWED to grow them for years..
At THIS moment the HPA ( Hoofd produktschap Akkerbouw) has found AGAIN the schimmel Synchytrium endobioticum, it stays in the soil, is resistant against extreme cold or wet wheater, and stays in the soil for 40 years, yes 40!!!
It is now found in the South east of the country, in Lumburg.
Only potatoes are allowed to be grown that are esistant Fysio 1.
Please do not take the risk of getting diseases in the soil, buy proper seed potatoes and ROTATE every year. ( 1 per-4 years)
Quote from: Derekthefox on December 31, 2005, 16:17:52
So does this mean, in controlled pollination, you will get true plants ... ?
yes
I have some sprouting spuds but I will not be planting as I did have some blight last year and the spores wil carry on to this year
you cant beat a bit of talent and Jenny on the block your it !
Carlos
Quote from: carloso on January 01, 2006, 04:22:45
you cant beat a bit of talent and Jenny on the block your it !
Methinks you will make the lady blush ...
Quote from: Robert_Brenchley on December 30, 2005, 23:28:02
How should you deal with heritage varieties then?
Robert,
I did say
if you can buy certified seed you should do so.
Heritage varieties are kept going by keeping them separated from other varieties by as much space as possible, keeping a very close eye on them for any sign of disease and lifting them as early as possible.
Treating tubers with fungicide will do nothing to help (cf horses and stable doors)
Saving seed may just work but you will have to wait more than 2 years before you have tubres big enough to eat and each year you grow them you risk picking up disease.
The spores do not live very long, around a couple of weeks which is why you should cut down and removed blighted haulms and leave the spuds in the ground for 3 weeks before lifting them to avoid getting the spores onto the tubers and causing tuber blight.
The only blight that affects spuds in UK is
Phytophthora infestans (known as late blight in the USA).
Phil
Quote from: philcooper on January 01, 2006, 21:22:04
...Treating tubers with fungicide will do nothing to help (cf horses and stable doors)..The only blight that affects spuds in UK is Phytophthora infestans
Phil, I think they treat selected tubers as a prophylactic.
Phytopthora infestans is changing over time, and becoming more aggressive as different strains of the disease appear. This has been recognised as a world-wide problem, and there is an excellent link here to show what is being done: http://gilb.cip.cgiar.org/index.php
Jennym,
Blight may be changing, but like influenza, the effect and the treatments remain the same - I hope we don't get avian blight ;)
The point on treating tubers is that if the spores ore on them or the disease is within the tuber then treatment is a little late.
If it isn't then where would the spores come from as commercially potatoes are stored in controlled envronments?
Phil
This is probably something that would not affect (or interest) allotment holders
Quote from: philcooper on January 03, 2006, 09:08:24
Jennym,
Blight may be changing, but like influenza, the effect and the treatments remain the same - I hope we don't get avian blight ;)
The point on treating tubers is that if the spores ore on them or the disease is within the tuber then treatment is a little late.
If it isn't then where would the spores come from as commercially potatoes are stored in controlled envronments?
Phil
This is probably something that would not affect (or interest) allotment holders
Phil, What I’m trying to say is that if you wanted to select tubers which may or may not have come in contact with the spores, then you would apply a fungicide to all of them. This helps to prevent any uninfected potatoes becoming infected. This is standard practice. SAC Technical Note No.486 explains it. http://www1.sac.ac.uk/info/External/About/publicns/TN/TN486.pdf
I’m a bit sad when you say: This is probably something that would not affect (or interest) allotment holders. I really do enjoy the exchange of information on the site, have learned so much from other people and would hope that most find the same delight that I do in gaining knowledge and understanding of the way that these things operate. For me, this helps me to make decisions on sourcing stock and growing.
As someone who thinks of himself as an organic gardener, the last thing I would do to any produce of mine is to coat it with chemicals having spent the whole of its life protecting it from contamination
"Nasty" (imho) commercial practices should not be used by amateur growers
Phil
Is it possible to stop this conversation now please?
Ooops Phil, sorry if I have offended you in any way at all, as I said, I really do enjoy the exchange of information on the site and that includes from you of course :)
Not offended - pm sent to explain
Phil
Keep growing the potatoes! ;)
Thanks all, for the replies and further information re blight.
I wil take the advice and not plant out my "saved seed" - but I must say, my potatoes have suffered badly from blight in the past two seasons, and in both case they were all from certified seed potatoes. All my neighbouring plot holders did the same (can't speak for the whole allottment) and yet we ALL got blight anyway.
So, buying certified seed didn't help much - so why bother?
Tony
It's obviously spreading by cross-infection from one plot to another. So don't save anything from this year, and be careful about digging out accidentals just in case. I had blight in my tomatoes next year, so I certainly won't be re-using any spuds from last year. An old partwork I have half of from the 70's (I think) recommends saving your own seed in alternate years. That seems fair enough to me, though I'd add the caveat that nothing should be saved after an outbreak of blight.
Newtona2
All potatoes are susceptible to blight from whatever stock you raise them.
Buying certified seed means that you start off without blight potentially being already inside the plants you are growing. This will ruin your crop before you start.
Blight is spread by 2 means:
a. Windborne spores, the protection against which is copper based sprays which prevent the spores gaining a foothold on the foliage. The spores come from infected plants with the visible signs of blight
b. Aphids, principally the Peach-Potato Aphid, which carries the disease within its body having eaten diseased material. As it is a "messy eater" the disease is then spread to anything it feeds on.
So by growing non-certified seed you are raising potentially infected plants ie you are providing your own source of infected plant material for the aphids to feed on before the disease is visible in the plants and a source of spores when the typical yellow-brown blotches break out on the foliage.
Each year the potato industry plots outbreaks of blight and the vast majority are started by volunteers or last years tubers that weren't cleared away.
Phil
PS there are other diseases that certified stock should not carry such as blackleg adn eelworm which again can be carried forward in your own seed