I did a search on here for past references to the use of enviromesh and found Kays mentioned as a possible source for which to purchase it from.
I have searched the Kays website (and BTW the website is much more userfriendly from what it was a year or so ago) and they speak about Kays Insert Control Viromesh. The link to this as shown below.
https://secure.mmm.co.uk/cgi-bin/site-editor.pl/14/-ecommerce?action=item;item=VIROMESH2;eid=302512
Is this the same material that others refer to as Enviromesh?
Furthermore, which width material (1.2, 1.5, 2m etc) has users found the most convenient to use for covering such veg as carrots, cauliflowers etc.
Thanking you all in advance for your replies.
Thomas
Root Fly, Green Fly, White Fly, Black Fly, Aphids and Thrips - if it keeps those out it must be pretty similar but it is the size of the holes that will be key. With regards to widths etc - it depends on the width of your beds and the height of the crops but my guide is as big as I can afford.
This was what I thought - http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/yabbse/index.php/topic,14323.msg138035.html#msg138035
Width? Remember to allow the full height of the plants covered so that it can stay on for the whole season.
the stuff i use is 2 meters wide. my beds are 1.20 wide. i use it for carrots and leeks. as the leeks grow taller during september (late varieties) they tend to lift off the netting. but by then the onion fly is no longer laying eggs.
Thanks for that information Tim, I really need to get some for this next year. This year I used fleece but it got torn by the wind and foxes.
I've just bought some of this to replace my fleece which blew away. this is very finely knit so is not holey like a netting. It's heavier duty than fleece so won't easily blow away. I got mine from Fothergills :)
Wardy, is it tougher in the sense that does it tear less easily than fleece?
Yes, very much so. I don't think it would tear, it seems very strong.Â
Thanks Wardy, that's what I wanted to hear :)
I just bought a bit to see what it was like. it only cost me £3.49 but I think it will be what I'm looking for. Fleece just seems too flimsy for the hurly burly of the lotty. Mine was just like damp bog paper :) I gave up in the end trying to fleece my carrots etc so they just had to fend for themselves. i grew onions in with them and they were fine :) I wanted the mesh for my cabbages which got eaten and are getting eaten by pigeons
Wardy. What is bog paper? Is it a new thing for gardens and allotments? Sorry Wardy (and others) just in a silly happy mood.
Good Lorna. See you in the shed ;D
Bog paper? Isnt that squares of newspaper, tied onto a loop of string?
Sorry, I am in a silly mood too ...
Lorna - it's the stuff you take off the rolls that everyone seems to grow seeds in!!
Mesh - almost indestructible. Much heavier than dry fleece but lighter than wet fleece.
Thanks Tim. One is never too old to learn :) Hope you had a great Christmas.
Love my mesh, wonderful stuff.. Had excellent crops of celery and cauliflowers with it, kept all nasties off. Couldn't get on with fleece, it's so flimsy and doesn't do as it is told..
but it's not as bad as that netting I used this year :o
Scuse me for asking, but were the holes too big? I use netting over the other stuff, but it has quite small holes...
Quote from: wardy on December 26, 2005, 22:14:52
I just bought a bit to see what it was like. it only cost me £3.49 but I think it will be what I'm looking for. Fleece just seems too flimsy for the hurly burly of the lotty. Mine was just like damp bog paper :) I gave up in the end trying to fleece my carrots etc so they just had to fend for themselves. i grew onions in with them and they were fine :) I wanted the mesh for my cabbages which got eaten and are getting eaten by pigeons
Have I just got lucky, but my fleece has held up so far, not a tear in sight. It has survived hail, downpores. gales and now snow.
I think you probably get what you pay for. Mine fleece was from Wilko and it's been a load of rubbish ;D
My fleece only lasted 5 years. 'Rubbish' - depends uponwhat you think you're buying??
Hole size? Depends upon what you want to exclude. The finer the mesh, the more costly. 'Netting' is no counter to 'bugs' or butterflies.
Enviromesh looks impenetrable. Very fine knit, lightweight but more substantial than fleece. It will let light and rain through but is fine enough to keep out carrot root fly etc (so it says on the blurb) I've not tried mine yet though so will reserve judgement til then
Let Russ have a little play with it....if it survives a Russ attack, well....good stuff! ;D ;)
Russ could not do any damage to this stuff as his teeth aren't what they were ;D It won't rip either apparently.
I use Enviromesh and find it good, very durable, but also use horticultural fleece and find that's ok too.
I must admit something though. The first time I used Enviromesh I built a large sturdy wooden frame, secured the Enviromesh all round with battens, made a real good job of it and proudly put the frame over an area of brassicas, in an effort to keep off the Cabbage White butterfly.
However, I didn't do it before the butterfly became active. What happened was that they'd already laid their eggs on the underside of the young brassicas. Six weeks later, and all the cabbages inside the mesh had been eaten to bits, but the ones outside had only minimal damage - caterpillars must have been eaten by the birds.
Remember that there are 2 sizes of mesh in environmesh.
Quote from: tim on December 29, 2005, 12:12:37
Remember that there are 2 sizes of mesh in environmesh.
Didn't know that - can't find info on the web - can you help?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/photo04/mesh.jpg ?
Thank you Tim. :)
I've been using it over my carrots for a couple of years now. Yes it is good for keeping carrot fly etc out, and it doesn't tear.
BUT
it does deform. Think of a roughly woven strong cloth - if you catch it on a sharp point then often the threads bunch up and leave you with a "hole" through which things can crawl. I had my mesh nailed over a wood frame and something (foxcubs I think) played trampolines on it. Result: lots of pulled holes round the tack points and points of entry for the carrot flies. This year went over to water pipe (Geoff Hamilton) cloches covered in the same stretched mesh, removed off the frames and doubled up to minimise chances of the flies getting in.
Worked brilliantly.
Pity it didn't work as well for two-legged pests. Was alerted this week by a lottie friend that she'd lost some leeks and a stem of sprouts, so I dashed up. All the rest of my maincrop carrots had gone, which I'd been leaving for today's big dinner (as we didn't have Christmas at home). :'(
Times like this I have to remember Romans 12:19.
moonbells
Gutted for you moonbells. It is just not fair that someone else benefits from your hard work and dedication.
Thanks RC.
I am wondering if netting does actually help keep off two-legged pests. If they have to disassemble or hop over a well-pegged barrier, are they less likely to steal?
I guess replies ought to go to a new thread!
moonbells
I've just bought some Viromesh from Kays (http://www.kaysdiscountgarden.co.uk/ (http://www.kaysdiscountgarden.co.uk/) and use search box) as opposed to Enviromesh. First impressions are that it's very good quality - have tried ripping it and not succeeded, which is just as well as I would have been a bit annoyed with myself.
The other good thing is it appears to be quite a bit cheaper than the alternative. Currently 19.99 for a 10m x 2m piece even though the catalogue has a price of 24.99.
Delivery only took 2 days so all in all I'm very impressed. It's nice when thing work out well!
Mark.
just had a look on the kays site for viromesh and it doesn't return any results :( anyone else have any luck?
I will buy a roll of their fleece though - far cheaper than elsewhere.
Yes! I even showed a sample on the board.
Tim, could you send the link again please? as at the moment I open the site and do a search for viromesh and it is coming back with "no results" maybe I am doing something wrong?
?
:-[
So, have i got this right?? Fleece to keep stuff warm and protect from birds a bit, and mesh to stop bugs and flying nasties???
???
Mat,
Kays appear to have changed their website only in the last few weeks. Up to then they did have enviromesh listed and in fact I ordered some and it arrived one week later.
It might be better to give Kays a ring if you want to order some.
Thomas
katy
enviromesh allows air cirulation in summer, but stops insect damage
fleece protects against frost in spring/autumn, it is not as strong.
using environmesh in summer can produce too humid/hot conditions which the plant could dislike (just like us being in a coat in summer)
thomas - thanks, I am not going mad! I have just looked again on their site and again cannot find it, so it must be temporarily "on hold"
mat
I am intending to use a tip from the forum and plant my carrots between/ amongst my onions, however my carrots were really really bad last year so I also have Enviromesh to put on top. Will this be OK for onions and carrots? I'm just a bit worried about it being too hot.
Another summary..!!
1. Mesh is tough - fleece rips easily & degrades.
2. Mesh is more expensive short-term but cheaper long-term.
3. Fleece is light when dry but heavy when wet.
4. Mesh is comparatively heavy wet or dry.
5. Mesh allows rain through much more freely.
6. Fleece gives frost protection - not claimed for mesh.
7. Mesh is transparent - you can see any cabbage white that may have got in. And the veg.
8. Both keep out bugs (assuming the finer mesh) - &, of course - birds etc.
9. Mesh drives you MAD when trying to fold it up!!
10. Fleece gets muddy & collects every thistle, thorn or whatever.
If I think of anything else, I'll post it!!
Thank you Tim. Based on what you say I'll boldly go .....
Ah, yes!!
11. Mesh is so well finished & so expensive that I cannot bring myself to cut it to size. So I use fleece for the smaller bits.
Hi tim, enjoyed the summary lots. I have cut my mesh to bed size. I re-use the mesh, but wondered if there was a neet way to finish the edges - as you say, it should last years with care. Thoughts so far a) blowtorch and b) sewing machine. What do you do, or do you just leave it? ???
As said, I don't cut it - too nice & too costly to muck about with!
Don't forget to allow a really good gusset. This is a very careless example of what to allow for - more so with brassica.
erm, too late tim, I got a long roll so had to cut to 4m lengths :-\. My broccoli outgrew the mesh at the end of the season (in spite of Gusset), so I had to jerry rig the mesh above the stalks and round the heads with elastic bands and hazel stakes like a sort of canopy and it still keeps off the pigeons, even though it's all over the place now. This year I'm going to try japanese broccoli which should be far less trouble ;) Mesh has been great over winter spinach, seems to keep it very clean and nicer to pick.
I bought some ultrafine enviromesh last year to keep the flea beetle off my mizuna and assorted other oriental greens. Within a few weeks several small holes - big enough to push a pencil through? - had appeared in it. I do not know if they were the work of pigeons, foxes or the local cat, but they were more than somewhat depressing considering how much I had paid for the stuff. Also, the flea beetles just laughed in my face and ate up the greens regardless. An old hand on my site tells me it is because they live in the soil rather than flying in, but I have no idea if he is right or not.
That's a bit unfair? I would seek comment from the makers.