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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: kathryn on December 20, 2005, 10:31:59

Title: Pine needles
Post by: kathryn on December 20, 2005, 10:31:59
Hi all
Just wondered....
If i shred my neighbours christmas tree (after christmas of course) are the pine needles good for my compost heap and / or garden?
thanks
Kathryn ???
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Derekthefox on December 20, 2005, 10:47:08
yes

Derekthefox :D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: terrace max on December 20, 2005, 14:11:26
I'm going to disagree here - the needles won't compost in a regular heap. And many real trees are sprayed with a fire retardant.

I shred mine and use it as a mulch under non-edible plants.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: kathryn on December 20, 2005, 14:13:43
do you think the needles would work as a slug deterrent around the plants?
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Derekthefox on December 20, 2005, 14:24:39
Well slugs don't like coarse textures, so you might be in with a chance ...

Derekthefox :D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: redimp on December 20, 2005, 16:48:59
During the course of the folk lore discussion (has gone a bit off the rails now  ;D) I think I spotted that pine needles are a good mulch for strawberries and improve their flavour so I think that might be where mine is going once the rest of the family have finished with it.  if I had my way I would shred it on Thursday and mulch my strawberries then.

Spread a little humbugness, as you go by.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Mrs Ava on December 20, 2005, 17:52:19
Might shred mine.....mind you, don't think the plastic needles will have the same effect around my strawbs!  ;D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Merry Tiller on December 21, 2005, 22:04:42
Pine needles contain a growth retardant I believe, that's why you don't get much thick undergrowth in a pine forrest
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Mrs Ava on December 21, 2005, 23:41:13
...or in the carpet under the Christmas tree!  Saves weeding it I suppose......  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Doris_Pinks on December 22, 2005, 00:39:36
I use mine as a mulch around my runners to try and keep teh pesky slugs away!
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Derekthefox on December 22, 2005, 09:33:42
And does it work DP?

Derekthefox :D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Garden Manager on December 22, 2005, 10:36:35
I dont need to have  a real christmas tree to get pine needles. I have 10 naturaly growing ones at the top of my garden that produce TONS of the things. What i can be bothered to collect up get mixed up with other leaves in a leaf mould bin. The rest become a natural mulch, particularly around plants that prefer more neutral to acid conditions (i garden on chalk), like raspberries.

Reading about the 'growth retardant' in them makes me worry a bit though.... ??? :-\ :o
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Ceratonia on December 22, 2005, 11:03:26
Do a google search for 'Allelopathy' if you're interested. It means plants which do something chemically to prevent other plants growing nearby. As Merry Tiller said, you don't get anything else growing in a pine forest - partly because it's dark, but also because decomposing pine needles will inhibit germination of other plants - mainly because they make the soil very acid.

Pines aren't the only things which do this. Walnuts and sunflowers(!) are other plants which wage chemical warfare on their neighbours. Sunflowers are being investigated as a natural source of herbicides.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: kathryn on December 22, 2005, 11:13:49
yikes...now im confused, is it worth me shredding do you think?
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Derekthefox on December 22, 2005, 11:19:42
You're not the only one Kathryn ...

Derekthefox :D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Ceratonia on December 22, 2005, 11:22:30
I think they're fine as a mulch or on the compost heap - just remember that they take ages to decompose and that they'll make the soil more acid.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: jennym on December 22, 2005, 16:02:10
Pine needles do contain compounds which inhibit bacterial growth, there is an extract from a piece of research here if interested:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1744-7909.2005.00081.x
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: kathryn on December 23, 2005, 10:24:54
i think maybe i'll just use the needles around slug susceptible plants to see if it keeps them away and around my pond to hopefully keep the cats away
Thanks for all your advice
Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas
Kathryn
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: terrace max on December 23, 2005, 11:05:44
On the compost heap point - I think the presence of too many needles would risk suffocating the heap...
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: the_snail on December 23, 2005, 12:23:10
The best way toy rot down pine needles is to put them in a bin bag or two. Leave them for a year behind the shed then use them the following year in spring as a mulck for your fruit bushes or heathers.

The_Snail
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Mrs Ava on December 23, 2005, 22:24:28
Did you see the Gardeners World Chrissy special tonight?  Monty shredded an old Christmas tree and planned to use the very course shreddings, needles and all, to mulch around his newly planted (and HUGELY expensive) conifer garden.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Garden Manager on December 24, 2005, 10:09:06
Would i be right in thinking that composting (seperately of course) would remove the so called growth retardant in the needles? Ie the the composting process woul break down the hormone in the needles? Its just i have noticed that once rotted down the needles turn into a nice looking compost/soil conditioner, which things seem to grow in fine (when mixed with soil/other compost). it would appear its the 'raw' needles that are the problem.

Or is the real problem just because pine needles are nutrient poor and/or starve th soil of nutrients as they break down?
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on December 24, 2005, 11:13:38
The growth retardant will dosappear eventually. I suspect you're right in that needles are likely to rob nitrogen as they're pretty woody-looking things by the time they fall. It's a slow process, but if you pile them up and forget them for long enough, perhaps with the odd libation of pee to help them along the way, they will break down eventually.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: kathryn on December 27, 2005, 16:30:54
somebody gave me the idea of boiling some of the needles with cloves and cinnamon sticks to make a lovely smelling fabric spray...might give that a go
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: amphibian on December 28, 2005, 11:37:24
I am planning on using pine needles as my path mulch, I can collect bags full from my inlaws' woods, my understanding is that they take an age to break down, and until they have done so they are a growth suppresent. I suspect the couch won't care though.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Derekthefox on December 28, 2005, 12:31:06
If it stops the couch, amphibian, please let us all know, using capital letters !  ;D
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Merry Tiller on January 02, 2006, 16:10:42
Using them for a path seems like a good idea to me
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: return of the mac on January 02, 2006, 16:57:05
Would leylandi leaves mulch in the same way (for strawbs and/or growth suppressant)? Ive got loads of the stuff.
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: Merry Tiller on January 03, 2006, 01:57:57
I believe so
Title: Re: Pine needles
Post by: ipt8 on January 03, 2006, 17:51:39
Its a fallacy that real treas are sprayed to hold the needles, as a Forester I was once a member of the British Christmas Tree Growers Association and attended many meetings. I never met a member who sprayed the trees to retain needles.
They may well be sprayed early in the year to control aphids but I believe sprays are used much less now than they were.