Allotments 4 All

Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Looby Loo on November 04, 2005, 18:03:50

Title: Manure
Post by: Looby Loo on November 04, 2005, 18:03:50
I'm expecting my first every delivery of manure tomorrow.  I'm very excited.  But I have a few questions...

How thick do I spread it on the ground?  I intend to put it onto bare patches to supress weeds over the winter and dig it in in the springtim.

Is there anything that really doesn't like manure?

I know the rhubarb would like some manure.  Do I just plonk it around the crowns or do I need to dig it in?

Any other advise would be useful too.

Thanks
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: cleo on November 04, 2005, 18:13:29
This could be interesting as opinions will surely differ(and why not?-none of us are perfect).

Manure on rhubarb-pile it on once the leaves have died back.

On weeds?-well----not on perennial ones unless you want a bumper `harvest` next year

By and large I hope there will be concensus that fresh manure is a no no for root crops like carrots and parsnips.

As to how thick?-umm tricky,I would rather muck an area heavily for crops that like it rather than throw a bit everywhere-so it might depend on how much you have.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: tim on November 04, 2005, 19:01:42
No contention!
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: AikenDrum on November 04, 2005, 19:06:44
Following this topic intently  .....
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: undercarriage plan on November 04, 2005, 19:17:35
Erm me too! Had loads of pig muck delivered and got them to put it on the compost heap, thought I'd leave it to mature/rest. I was under the impression that if you put fresh manure straight onto the ground, the microorganisms would stop doing their thing in the soil, and go straight to the muck, which means they won't be doing their thing in the soil....I think...possibly
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: AikenDrum on November 04, 2005, 19:19:29
You think Lottie ?  You've never admitted to this before !   .....  *frowns*
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: undercarriage plan on November 04, 2005, 19:21:43
Ssshhhhhh.....is not widely known..... ::) ;)
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: AikenDrum on November 04, 2005, 19:24:35
< .... still trying to get my head round the concept of using the words "lottie" and "thinking" in the same sentence  ..... sounds like an oxymoron to me  .....
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: undercarriage plan on November 04, 2005, 19:29:12
You know that Aching Plot.......will oxymoron it soon!! ;), but will give you chance to get your head round the concept..is a hard fact to absorb, I know.... ::) ;)
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: AikenDrum on November 04, 2005, 19:32:16
Jeez !  she's using threatening typing at me !  ADMIN ! ! !
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: undercarriage plan on November 04, 2005, 19:37:07
Anyway......surly cough...I thought that was why you had to rest manure?
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: Palustris on November 04, 2005, 19:42:57
As a weed suppressant, you need at least 4inches.
As far as damaging the soil I doubt it, as by the time it is deliverd to you most manures will have already undergone the initial stages of decomposition. Only time it might be a difficulty is if the animals were on sawdust or shavings and you could still see the bedding. Then I would want to compost first. When the farmers do muck spreading they seem to put about two pinches cover but that is before ploughing.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: chriszog on November 04, 2005, 19:52:28
I put as much as I can get on the area that my potatos will be grown on next spring. Last year about 6 - 8 inches. Left it covered overwinter letting the worms do their thing. Then plant the spuds and hey presto fantastic crop of spuds and the soil is greatly improved for the following spring.
regards
Chriszog
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: tim on November 04, 2005, 19:57:26
4"?? You'll be lucky? But if you are - walk backwards??
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: Annadl on November 05, 2005, 00:28:27
I agree with Cleo but have a look at this thread on rhubarb if you want more information.

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/yabbse/index.php/topic,12596.msg117661.html#msg117661

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: dingerbell on November 05, 2005, 10:41:12
I'm very new to all this but this year (my first) I double dug 2 tons of well rotted manure into my virgin lottie.  The extra I piled unto some old Rhubarb crowns and the leftovers I piled into a corner and covered with plastic sheet to stop all the nutrients leeching into the soil.  I planted winter squash seeds into the pile through cut slits and stood back......The result.... an absolutely bumper crop, 20 superb sqash, Rhubarb the size of Gunnera, beans enough to feed half the village, PSB nearly 4 feet high and leeks like telegraph poles.  In my humble opinion, everything loves muck ;D Apart that is from my good lady who thinks manure is a rude word.  It took my Mum years to get my Dad to call it manure ;D
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: Lady Cosmos on November 05, 2005, 11:53:03
I always use 1m2 manure at every 100 m2 soil.
That is 12 wheelbarrows per 100 m2 soil.
Thick layer in autumn, except  where carrots etc will grow .
and I have always very good results. ;D
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: john_miller on November 05, 2005, 18:52:05
Quote from: undercarriage plan on November 04, 2005, 19:17:35
Erm me too! Had loads of pig muck delivered and got them to put it on the compost heap, thought I'd leave it to mature/rest. I was under the impression that if you put fresh manure straight onto the ground, the microorganisms would stop doing their thing in the soil, and go straight to the muck, which means they won't be doing their thing in the soil....I think...possibly
Not quite. Fresh manure is very high in salts, especially N in the NO3 form from urine (NH4NO3), which is highly water soluble, and these can be leached into the soil at levels sufficent to dessicate, basically burn, beneficial bacteria and fungi. The breakdown bacteria and fungi adapted to compost heaps will be better able to withstand these concentrations of salts. Additionally, spreading fresh manure straight onto the ground will also increase the chances of groundwater pollution by these same salts. High amounts of NO3 are quite harmful when drunk, especially to small children, and can kill marine life.
Another reason not to use fresh manure can be found at:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/VegFruit/fresh.htm
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: caroline7758 on November 05, 2005, 21:29:05
So what is it that carrots & parsnips don't like about manure?
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: blight on November 05, 2005, 21:41:07
i use horse manure and put that on a pile to turn into compost for 12 months or so. i find it easier to get it into the soil when it has reached that stage, as i do not dig ( the plot is too big). i spread it over the areas where i want it and work it in with a
machine (forgot what it´s called in english: rotoculto or so?
another reason for doing that is what john miller wrote.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: telboy on November 05, 2005, 21:41:47
One has to go back to Looby's original post.
Is the manure fresh or rotted?

If fresh - rot it down. If rotted, spread it on thre plot a.s.a.p. 3-4 inches & let the worms do the work! If you have any spare, cover it for next year, pots/leaks/onions - hungrey crops!
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: john_miller on November 05, 2005, 21:54:37
Quote from: caroline7758 on November 05, 2005, 21:29:05
So what is it that carrots & parsnips don't like about manure?
The high salt levels too. If the growing tissue at the comes into contact with a high concentration of salts released as the organic material is broken down then the cells will dessicate and die. This results in the a cessation of the production of the hormone auxin by the root tip. This will then allow another, or other, growing points to start growing resulting in multiple growing points at harvest- the 'forking' of carrots.
Quote from: telboy on November 05, 2005, 21:41:47
If rotted, spread it on thre plot a.s.a.p. 3-4 inches & let the worms do the work! If you have any spare, cover it for next year, pots/leaks/onions - hungrey crops!
Spreading even rotted manure at this time of year can still result in nutrients being released and lost into the groundwater. While it will leave the undecomposed organic matter as a soil conditioner it is a wasting a benefit of painstakingly collected and composted material. Manure can be spread in early fall but only when there is still time to sow a green manure to lock up any released nutrients in their tissues. Timing can be modified in mild falls such as the one I gather the U.K. is now enjoying.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: blight on November 05, 2005, 22:05:18
agrree with you,john.
i put mine on , rotted down, from spring onwards. and because there is not all that much of it left after decomposition, i use it sparingly and according to what i think the different vegetables require.
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: wardy on November 05, 2005, 22:59:10
I grew my courgettes, runner beans, squashes, pumpkins , spuds in fresh manure and they were just fine  :)
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: Mrs Ava on November 05, 2005, 23:25:43
I heap it up for 6 months, then spread it over where I plan to grow my spuds, onions, beans, etc, trying to avoid where I am planning to grow my root crops.

I also get some red hot fresh from the horses bot to grow my squashes in...and well...you have seen the pictures....they do okay!  ;D
Title: Re: Manure
Post by: jennym on November 06, 2005, 09:42:16
My plot is very wet, and so I tend to put manure on in the spring, otherwise the nutrients do leach away. I even have to cover any that I have overwintered. The evidence of leaching is apparent when it rains - the gorgeously tea coloured liquid filling the ditches is a testimony to it.
For the same reason I grow green manures such as poached egg plant, which helps stop soil washing away.