Allotments 4 All

Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: bupster on August 25, 2005, 16:21:02

Title: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 25, 2005, 16:21:02
OK, I am a fool, but how do the seeds know which way to sprout when they're under the soil? There is no excuse for me not knowing this, I know... :-[
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: john_miller on August 25, 2005, 16:33:24
Geotropism.
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: aquilegia on August 25, 2005, 16:35:01
funny that - I always thought it was due to light not gravity. (says she like she knows what geotropism is and didn't just google it!)
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: Mrs Ava on August 25, 2005, 16:49:54
They have the force Luke! ;D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 25, 2005, 16:57:02
Now must spend hours reading up on geotropism. Apologies for idiocy, my ignorance is astounding when it comes to science and in particular biology. Which doesn't bode well..
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: Ed^Chigliak on August 25, 2005, 17:20:30
Yoda was seen training several seedlings in Attack of the Slugs.  ;D

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you and grow up towards the light."
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 25, 2005, 17:22:35
Oh god what have I started  :)
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: jennym on August 25, 2005, 22:39:29
I think I was taught that the roots are positively geotropic, i.e. they grow down towards the gravitational pull, and shoots are negatively geotropic, i.e. they grow away from gravitational pull. The shoots react to light too, this is called phototropism, but is a separate thing. You can prove this by growing a bean (it's easy to see) in darkness. The shoot will go up and thew root will go down. Someone proved the gravity thing by doing experiments with a centrifuge, and the roots grew in the direction of the centifugal force.
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: return of the mac on August 25, 2005, 23:03:58
QuoteYou can prove this by growing a bean (it's easy to see) in darkness

Has to be a magic bean though ;D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: the_snail on August 25, 2005, 23:18:02
Ok here goes.

A plant has 2 hemospheres. It has a geotropic hemasphere and a phototropic hemosphere.

The phototropic hemasphere is mainly for light and air to allow the plant to gain light to feed via photosynthesis and transpire.

The Geotropic region is for the plant to grow its roots. It might be gravity that plays a part in that but my theory is that light or the lack of light has a greater influence in the formation of a plants root (other that the need for water and nutrients.) That is why you never get clear plant pots.

Hope this has gone some way to answer your question.

The_Snail
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: jennym on August 25, 2005, 23:39:10
Sorry the-sexy-snail, that's not my understanding....
Phototropism just means the response of the plant to light.
Gravitropism is the response of the plant to gravity.
Both are affected by chemicals withn the plant

Transpiration means the evaporation of water from the plant's leaves. This is part of the photosynthesis cycle.

The part that gravity plays in the direction of plant root and shoot growth has been well researched and documented.

Plant roots will grow well in the presence of light (gel media being a good example, used widely in commercial propagation)
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: the_snail on August 25, 2005, 23:43:25
Jenny I understand that gravity plays a big part on the formation of a plants roots and the direction they grow in. The light bit was just a thoery I had.

Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: jennym on August 25, 2005, 23:45:32
 :)
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: PREMTAL on August 26, 2005, 00:03:42
Courage young Bupster, Better it be that learn you do from the Jedi of A4A.

Knowledge they do have, guide you they will.

                                       May the force be with you

                                                    PREMTAL ;D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: jennym on August 26, 2005, 00:06:13
 ;D ;D ;D

Yep, sometimes I realise I can be a very stuffy old Jedi...
apologies, all
Jennym
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 26, 2005, 00:16:10
Must change username to Grasshopper... :D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: Ed^Chigliak on August 26, 2005, 01:58:17
How do plants sense gravity? They do so with the use of hormones. One particular class of hormones, called auxins, are responsible for root cell elongation. Auxins are synthesized in shoot tips but they eventually migrate down to the roots where they accumulate because of gravity and stimulate the growth of root cells. Hormones are similarly responsible for shoot tip growth away from gravity.
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 26, 2005, 12:37:08
So if gravity determines the emergence of shoots and roots, what influence does light and heat have on plants respectively? I know about photosynthesis along with carbon dioxide and water producing sugars and oxygen, but what effect does the amount of light have? Is it intensity that's important or the length of the day? And where does heat come in?
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: flowerlady on August 26, 2005, 17:28:54
My understanding of the requirement of light :-

without light plants cannot produce the energy they need to sustain life - photosynthesis.  Some need more light than others - would be interested to know why - thus indoor plants and ferns for instance can survive in the shade.

Also the loss of green colour in foliage indicates when plant has insufficient light.  Some bronze plants when grown in the shade remain green too.

Etiolation happens, plants grow long and thin and weedy.  So they grow towards light in an attempt to rectify this. 

Have you ever watched a field of sunflowers, as their heads follow the sun through the day?  Fascinating.
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: BAGGY on August 26, 2005, 17:42:02
So ....... the seeds that don't sprout or root, are they in a micro anti gravty (an obviously invisible to the human eye) chamber ?  Or are they just naff ?  Or am I just being daft ?
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: adam04 on August 26, 2005, 17:42:40
two things geotropism and somethng else to do with light, geotropism is to do with gravity, therefore the roots are geotropic, ie they grow down towardsthe earths centre of gravity. the other things which i cant remeber the nameof, is the way the shoot grows, it grws towards the light.
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 26, 2005, 17:47:28
Re sunflowers, my head has been known to do something similar towards a gin and tonic  ;).

So why do some plants (apparently) depend on the length of daily light? If light produces energy are shade-tolerant plants more efficient?

Realise this is no longer as basic as basic gets! Perhaps one of you very erudite posters could suggest a link that might help - gardeners' idiot's guide to the science of plants? Wikipedia can get a little science-heavy, and while I'm always ready to learn I need a leg-up sometimes  :D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: jennym on August 27, 2005, 01:17:03
Yes shade tolerant plants are more efficient at using light.

Try these links for morte info on the subjects discussed:
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/L/Leaf.html
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/E/Etiolation.html
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/T/Tropisms.html#Tropisms
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: bupster on August 27, 2005, 01:34:44
Jenny, what do you do for a living? Are you a professional in plant growing? I wouldn't ask, but in the short time I've been on this board I can't help but notice the extent of your knowledge :)
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: amphibian on August 27, 2005, 08:48:18
Quote from: jennym on August 27, 2005, 01:47:05
Flatterer!  :)
I used to work in a factory. I loved it. I got made redundant. It hurt (a lot). I decided to have a go at doing something for myself, i.e. grow my own food. I studied horticulture and crop production. I now feed the family all year and have started a small business selling fruit based products.

So you are a pro.  :D
Title: Re: As basic as basic gets
Post by: wardy on August 27, 2005, 10:12:10
Bupster I found out about shade loving plants from googling on the internet.  Just type in shade loving plants and up they all come.  No science knowledge needed.  you can google and drink gin and tonic at the same time

Pleased to hear about your growing business Jennym - sounds wonderful.  It must be great to do what you love for a living  :)

I've done two garden design courses and am thinking about having a go at an horticultural course if I get time.  There's one near me from Sept but one of the ladies on it last year said that some of the lessons get very raucous and stuff gets thrown at peeps.  don't know if I like the sound of that  :o