I’m going to start my runner bean bed for next year, by trenching and adding compost / manure and covering. A guy on the next plot says he does the same, but puts in plastic sheeting first to hold the water. Does anyone else use this method?
Thanks
David
Hello David
It all sounds like a lot of trouble for runner beans, which grow well in almost any soil.
If you want super-sized yields have you considered a food trench? All you do is throw your usual compost material into a trench in its uncomposted state, cover with soil and plant your beans on top. Works a treat!
Plastic sheetin could well cause problems.
Layers of newspaper or cardboard are fine, and they rot down eventually.
Never heard of a food trench before. Do you have any links, terrace? Just taken over allotment and won't get round to compost heap for a while yet - hate to throw composting material away
But I put so much waste in that I ended up with a ridge.
Better next year, hopefully.
Hi all,
I did this last year, found the method in an old organic paperback. It worked really well, there was a ridge but it collapsed over the winter, the only slight drawback has been the number of potato and avocado plants growing amongst the beans!
;D
Rosie
My lecturer at college used to put old woolly jumpers in the bottom of her trench. Have to make sure they are wool though.
Quote from: bupster on August 23, 2005, 14:44:54
Never heard of a food trench before. Do you have any links, terrace?
Hello Bupster - I tried to find a link for you on the HDRA website but the relevant factsheet seems to have gone...
From memory, and from my own efforts, it's as simple as it sounds. Just make sure you cover the food with soil to deter rats, foxes etc. And mark the trench with canes so you know where to plant.
As the other posts suggest, I think the idea is an old one. The old boys round here used to throw all their weeds into the trench as well. But then they talk about planting apple trees on a dead dog...!
All the old guys on my plot do this trench thing and they chuck all their veggie outer leaves, cabbage stalks, newspapers, pea pods, basically any organic matter, peelings, tea bags, NOTHING COOKED OR MEAT of course, old flowers, coffee dregs, you name it :)
I didn;t have time to prepare a trench so I just used good old farmyard manure and planted my runner beans plants directly into it. They all got killed off by frost though on 4th and 5th June so I had to start again, but two kind chaps gave me some of theirs :)
i was thinking of using the plastic also but making sure i pricked it with holes about 6 inches up as i didnt want the plant to be effectivly water logged either !
i also was going to use this method for peas also as there thirsty buggers
then also im going to trial with tomatoes plant s too !!
can you see where im coming from
carl
Do you leave the trench open all winter or cover it over every time you put new waste in? (sorry if that's a bit dim, my excuse is its late and I'm tired ::))
I just collected the stuff in bins dug the trench, bunged it in and covered it with a layer of soil. Then bunged the next lot in, covered etc until it was full and I had run out of soil and space.
That was what the book said, I think I may have put a layer of newspaper in the bottom (my idea).
Rosie
Carloso Are you putting the plastic in the bottom of the trench to retain moisture? If so I think all the material you put in would do the same thing so maybe placcy is belt and braces :)
I did this for the first time this year - dug a trench out and filled with manure, after I'd made the decision to keep my runners in the same spot each year to allow me to put up a permanent structure.
Last year the early September wind took out half the canes, and snapped off most of the plants before they'd finished so I needed something more resilient. Two sharpened posts were duly hammered into the ground and thick wire put between them. Dug and filled the trench, then pushed canes into the ground on the very outside of the trench and tied them to the wire with green twine. Planted the beans on the inside of the canes and watched them grow like Topsy. Never had such a good crop, and certainly not with both flowers and foliage right to the base!
moonbells
Quote from: Mubgrub on August 23, 2005, 21:56:20
Do you leave the trench open all winter or cover it over every time you put new waste in? (sorry if that's a bit dim, my excuse is its late and I'm tired ::))
dig it, fill it, cover it as you fill it, in spring...
Nope I don't do any of that. They seem to grow well enough without any special ground preperation. I spread some compost at the begining of the year and build a support frame.
I have also heard of woolly jumpers and old woollen trench coats used in bean trenches to good effect.
No dig, just manure on top of cardboard and they're doing well :)
Quote from: Ed^Chigliak on August 24, 2005, 10:31:04
Nope I don't do any of that. They seem to grow well enough without any special ground preperation. I spread some compost at the begining of the year and build a support frame.
Yep, food trenches and the like are definitely for those who want an abundance of runners!
Is it a good place to put anybody you don't like? ;D
ex husbands do well....
I had a chat with a roofer who has a plot down at the site. I managed to exchage a 4 pack of the dark stuff for 5 x 8' scaffolding poles with brackets. Needless to say, my beans now have a 'permanent' home and I will be using the trench method from now on. I did manage to get enough comfrey leaves to line the trenches this year an after a very slow start, have had more then enough climbing french and runners to keep the family going. Lance
No, don't have to rotate them. I never do, and my mate's been growing his in the same place for 40 years and never had any problems.
I do not think it is a major problem but the BBC say:
QuoteRotate crops
Choose a new site for planting each year as beans are prone to foot and root rotting diseases that build up in the soil over time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/basics/techniques/growfruitandveg_growingbeans.shtml
I personally rotate so that my brassicas get the nitrogenised beds the following year and to make my rotation and four year rotation instead of three.
My dad always used a food trench. Just veg peelings and such-like, plant waste and what have you. Make sure it is deep enough and cover it in soil. Worked a treat. I am sure all the old boys did it. He was from the generation in the last world war when not many did not grow their own veg . Why not try half this way and half the way you usually do it and see if their is any difference....
Another dim one: ;D
Can you use a food trench for peas too?
Hi David W, With references to plastic in the bottom of your bean trench go for it, ;)
as long as you go down deep enough, (two spades deep) and puncher the plastic in a couple of places to allow excess water to run off, yes you can place in the trench any organic material (farn yard manure, garden compost, paper and cardboard, grass cuttings) my dad even used stinging nettles, :o said it gave the beans extra taste, :P but it no difference to a very large grow bag and we all use them, ;D i saw the same thing on reruns of Gardeners World on sky the other night, allotments around Birmingham & Manchester, he even earthed up his carrots and parsnips and the size was very good ;D
the only thing to remember is the digging rotation you have to get the plastic out (not sure if you can grow beans in the same place for consecutive years because of diseases) :-\
hope this helps
windy
I made 7' tall frames using bamboo canes & zip ties that can be moved around. Tools you need are a tape measure, marker pen, electric drill, 3.5mm drill bit, pair of pliers and a saw. It doesn't take that long to make a free standing frame. I tried to make it very cheaply and to be re-usable without building a frame each year.
You need 21 no. 7' canes in total and a couple of spares just in case. Choose canes that have not split and do not taper too narrow at the thin end. You also need lots of zip ties but fortunately a pack of 200 is really rather cheap.
Pick out the best 3 canes with the largest diameter and put them to one side. These will be the 2 base and 1 ridge canes holding all the vertical canes in place. Drill 3.5mm holes in the 2 base canes starting 2" from the fat end at 8" intervals until you have 8 holes. Drill 3.5mm holes in the ridge cane starting 2" from the fat end at 4" intervals until you have 16 holes. Cut off the extra length of cane 2" beyond the last hole.
Take 16 canes and in each drill a 3.5mm hole 1" from the fat end. Push then pull a zip tie all the way through each hole using pliers. Then thread these zip ties through the holes in the base canes so as to fasten 8 'vertical' canes to each of the base canes. Arrange all the canes flat on the ground as you work. You now have two sides to the frame minus the ridge cane.
Place one side of the frame flat on the ground and arrange the canes parallel to each other and perpendicular (@ 90 degrees) to the base cane. Place the ridge cane across the top of the 8 canes 2" from the narrow ends. Drill a 3.5mm through each of the 8 canes close to the intersection with the ridge and zip tie the 8 canes to alternate holes in the ridge cane. Repeat the process to join the other half of the frame to the same ridge cane. Don't zip tie too tight since there really is no need and a bit of slack will help it hinge when you stand it up.
You now have the worlds most wobbly free standing runner bean frame but the wobbly problem can be solved with you've guessed it a couple more canes and a few more zip ties. ;D
Lay the almost complete two sided frame flat on the ground and square it up so it's not skewed to either side. Fasten a 7' cane diagonally across each side of the frame between the two outer most canes with a few more holes and zip ties. The wobble problem is solved and you can now stand the frame up. Simply open out the frame so the base canes are 18-24" apart and it will stand.
Hammer some stakes (I used pallet wood) into the ground and anchor the frame to the stakes using would you believe it... more cable ties. You can move the frame and leave the stakes in situ.
Blimey :o
What's more I tried 4 different designs of runner bean frames and this is my favourite design.
Double blimey :o :o
I use an old goal post and it's net and thread 8' canes through the net and lean them on the goal post at an angle. This leaves enough space between the two sides for me to employ child labour (neice) to pick from within.