Allotments 4 All

Hello, I'm new to allotments4all, and I'm hoping this is an ok sort of question.
I have about a dozen various tomato plants growing well (abut 18 inches tall) in growbag.  BUT I have forgotten what varieties they are.  They are producing side shoots.  Is there any way of deciding whether or not to pinch out the side shoots ?

i have 3 and have no idea what they are. i have let the bottom leaves fall off and am not taking anything off just in case! they are producing flowers now thankfully!

I know the general concensus is to pinch out the side shoots, but has anyone left them in? I seem to be pinching them out daily on my plants.
I'm just not sure if I'm actually helping matters.
Explanation please?  ???

I think you will find in the archives of recent chat that there are details including pictures of how to go about removing these shoots.

I believe the reason for removal is to make the plant put all its energy into the fruit, there will be an expert along in a mo I'm sure to put you right. ;)

Type tomato in the search facility it may reveal all. ;D

I pinched out a side shoot yesterday with flowers on it...ok I did not realise this until it was too late, but if they produce flowers quite low down, why pinch them out?
Having said that, I missed another one and it almost took over the entire plant...and no flowers on that one. In this case its obvious.
I'm not saying it's wrong to pinch out, but should it be done in every case?

I think the problem is that there are 2 types of tomatoes - cordon (one main stem) and bush.  With the bush sort you don't pinch out anyway (as far as I know).  

Without knowing what the tomato is in the first place i.e. the name of the variety, I don't know if it would be obvious or not, or whether if you treated (for example) a cordon as a bush variety would suffer for it.  

Last year, I didn't pinch out anything on my toms because I didn't know how.  I still got fruit, so no need to panic.  You're talking about ways of improving yield with stopping sideshoots.

That's my opinion, but I've only been at this 2 years - someone with a bit more experience will reply!

Not an expert, no, no!! But realized I'd been snipping off side shoots for years and never wondered why!! So just spent last hour trawling through books and the reasons seems to be as Roy says, so the plant put its energy into producing fruits and not leaf growth, and to increase light and ventilation which will improve yield and reduce disease! Phew, going for lie down now, after I've put books away...!

Quote from: Charlotte Sometimes on June 24, 2005, 22:56:43
I think the problem is that there are 2 types of tomatoes - cordon (one main stem) and bush.  With the bush sort you don't pinch out anyway (as far as I know). 

Without knowing what the tomato is in the first place i.e. the name of the variety, I don't know if it would be obvious or not, or whether if you treated (for example) a cordon as a bush variety would suffer for it. 

Last year, I didn't pinch out anything on my toms because I didn't know how.  I still got fruit, so no need to panic.  You're talking about ways of improving yield with stopping sideshoots.

That's my opinion, but I've only been at this 2 years - someone with a bit more experience will reply!

Marmande and Gardener's delight, both cordon as far as I'm aware...

I've just realised that I've missed a side shoot on my cordon tomato - and the side shoot is now about 1.5ft long.  Is it too late now to take it out?  This tomato doesn't have many flowers compared to the others so was wondering if this is cos of the side shoot???   ???

Clara,

The advice on types is correct, remove side shoots from cordons (or you get lots of growth but very little fruit), don't remove side shoots from bush (they only produce one flower truss on each shoot.

If you have no idea at all on the varieties, do a 50/50 (you've already asked the audience/friends !!!)

Piglottie, Remove the side shoot, or you're crop will be delayed a long time (and if it's outside, the fruit may not ripen before the frosts)

Phil

Thanks Phil - seems like you're my personal veggie consultant this morning!  Much appreciated

No,

I just happen to be on the computer - when I should be out in the garden!!!

Phil  ;)

Wide spread problem methinks - my basil is calling to be potted on!  :)

i think gardener's delight are cordon and marmande is semi bush (needs support but don't pinch out).

there was an interesting thread discussing this just a little while ago.

generally, the consensus is to pinch out so that the plant devotes energy to making fruit. HOWEVER, there seems to be an idea that you do not pinch out the 'first' side shoot, allowing it to develop into a proper second stem. you pinch out all the side shoots from there on in, on both stems, but will end up with double the amount of fruit as both stems will start to flower at about the same time (but obviously twice the amount of flowers as on two stems). kind of a 'buy one get one free' scenario. i suppose the reason you should only have one other stem is that if you let your tomato run wild it will make lots of secondary stems but eventually have trouble sustaining them all with the right amount of energy for tomato production (what we consider right anyways, i suppose the tomato plant knows what it is doing...)

i am a pincher-outer, but have missed side shoots on three tomato plants - they have now developed into secondary stems (well they were secondary stems when i found them) and are flowering in tandem with the main stems themselves. i shall treat this as an experiment this year :) i am pinching out all other side shoots that are now developing anywhere, however!!!
the only negative side effect is that now my tomatoes really are too densely spaced so i may pay for that in the future :(

hope i explained it well enough
svea

Heh svea, I too am experimenting and have left a big fat sideshoot on one of my Gardener's Delights.  We shall see...  its one from low down the plant, like a second main stem.  I have 7 plants including a beefsteak, so I don't suppose yield is much of an issue for me - we're well catered for (2 person household)!  But I have been nipping out the other sideshoots as per instructions.  Guess I'll report back later in the summer, but as far as I remember its flowering (the experimental sideshoot).

When does one stop pinching out shoots, if ever?

Never!!

 ;D Thanks Tim ;)

never. when i was little i used to spend most of the summer holidays pinching out sideshoots (my parents used to be commercial growers) i seem to recall that going on forever  :D

is there a general time to pinch out - mine are just getting quite a few flowers if thats any indication - this is the first time i have grown tomatoes and have no idea what type they are but are about 18 inches tall.

I still have no idea on what ones to take off - even though i have seen the other posts!

would it do anything if i didn't do it - or just less tomatoes

Thankyou to EVERYONE.   Roy BAMuk - now i know about the archives.  Philcooper thankyou for introducing the empirical idea of 50/50.  Charlotte sometimes thanks for the idea of improving yield (rather than ruining the crop) and for searching the literature.   I think I will relax about it now, sounds like I won't have disaster if I pinch or disaster if I don't!  And next year I will remember to record properly the varieties of seeds I plant.

 :o Clara :o Please don't answer in red type again as I thought your blood pressure had risen to a dangerous level :o and was worried about you :'(

Quote from: philcooper on June 25, 2005, 10:01:25

Piglottie, Remove the side shoot, or you're crop will be delayed a long time (and if it's outside, the fruit may not ripen before the frosts)

Phil

  I'm not sure where this information is coming from but ripening is almost an entirely phenological response, by genotype, with the removal of side shoots having very little bearing upon the rate it happens and may largely be explained by the increased exposure to light which will in turn become heat. Heat will speed up the physiological process but the effect is marginal. In a not very scientific test I did years ago, involving the cv. 'Jet Star', plants that were not pruned or trained at all, i.e., were allowed to sprawl across the ground, ripened about a week later then plants subjected to rigourous cordon training.
  Before anyone ruins their crop I would like to pass on some reading I did in college. To assess the effects of pruning side shoots on indeterminate cvs. researchers experimented with removing all the side shoots except the side shoot below each truss. The side shoot immediately below each truss is attached to the same vascular tissue as the truss. As with any plant the fruit attracts more nutrients to it than any other part of the plant so this side shoot has more nutrition available to it (which is why it will grow larger than other side shoots). In this experiment leaving only these shoots to grow out resulted in a 50% reduction in yield (due to a reduction in fruit size and count caused by the competition for nutrients) compared to a control planting where pruning was as normally done. This was on plants of a genotype suitable for greenhouse growing, but may br true for outdoors ones too, in the U.K. and may not hold true for substantially different genotypes- the majority of tomatoes grown in the U.S are allowed to sprawl, as I do, and yields can be phenomenal and more than economically offset the later ripening.
 

COR!!

You couldn't resist that one, John - could you??

 ;D Welcome back John ;D were your ears burning? ;D

Well, you can but try!!

A while ago, I said that the sideshoots on my Palla were immediately flower trusses. So, I decided to leave them, to see if they gave a extra trusses low down.

Big mistake!!

I'm glad I've mainly got bush tomatoes (although they are looking a little sad at the moment with curled leaves and slightly blotchy leaves  ??? ).  Anyway, previously mentioned cordon tomato is now duly snipped (ouch!) of its side shoot so we shall see what happens.   :)

Quote from: Svea on June 25, 2005, 10:49:36
.......generally, the consensus is to pinch out so that the plant devotes energy to making fruit. HOWEVER, there seems to be an idea that you do not pinch out the 'first' side shoot, allowing it to develop into a proper second stem. you pinch out all the side shoots from there on in, on both stems, but will end up with double the amount of fruit as both stems will start to flower at about the same time (but obviously twice the amount of flowers as on two stems). kind of a 'buy one get one free' scenario...........svea

We need to be clear that we are only talking about plants grown outside.

Pinching out the top of a cordon grown in the green house is done when you want to ensure that the fruits ripen before the daylength is too short and the temp too low.

Pinching out before will produce bushy growth which will prevent light getting to the fruits to ripen them.

I have only used pinching out of outdoor cordons to (try to) ensure that the fruit ripen so it's around the beginning of September.

Phil

Other than the record breaking heat this June Roy (guess what- there's more coming your way!) my ears haven't been burning. Should they have been? I hope your tropicals have been enjoying the heat as much as mine have been?

phil, i think we were talking about pinching out of side shoots?

i agree with you about the pinching out of the 'grow spot' on the top though :)

svea

Svea,

I was talk about the top - "stopping" in chrysanthemum/dahlia speak - I hjadn't realised the conversation was on side shoots.

As I don't stop cordons until late in the season and don't touch bushes, I hadn't even considered pinching out side shoots

Phil

Whilst in Majorca, I noticed that in some areas, ( smallholdings) that tomatoes were left to grow along the ground  on straw. I doubt if the sideshoots were taken off and the crops looked very healthy.

Quote from: john_miller on June 26, 2005, 01:37:36

  I'm not sure where this information is coming from but ripening is almost an entirely phenological response, .....

John,

I missed (don't know how) your exposee on tomato ripening

But the point I was trying to make was not that pinching affects ripening of mature fruit but that letting the plants expend energy of side shoots reduces the speed at which the formed fruits mature - loose wording on my part!

Welcome back

Phil