Topic: Seed Saving Circle 2023

[JanG]

I will let you know my list for the seedcircle in the weekend

Thanks Ruud. Looking forward to hearing what you’ve got up your sleeve!

[JanG]

Just one slight comment, Jang.  The tomato is called "Betimes Macbeth", (not bedtimes).  Fingers crossed for Sibley, which I am going to open later today.   

Oh dear, another one. Sorry Galina. As someone who taught Macbeth to teenagers year in, year out, I am very fond of the name ‘Betimes Macbeth’ and have wanted to grow it for some time. And from what you said previously it is indeed betimes. I’ll try to make sure I control the spellcheck in the Airtable base.

Fingers crossed for Sibley.

[galina]

No issue Jang.  Thankyou, yes we have Sibley seeds drying after washing the debris off.  And already eaten some squash last night.  It was very sweet with dry orange flesh and that wonderful melon smell, as you cut into it.  Didn't quite make up for the melons being a wipeout this year, but the at least the squash worked.  And with further storage it can only get better flavoured. 

[lezelle]

Hi all, I really like the look of those yellow tomatoes you have grown Galina nd wondered where can I buy them? Thankyou.

[galina]

When I am in England next, I could send you a few seeds.

[JanG]

Here are a few notes and a couple of photos relating to the lettuce and tomato varieties I'm hoping to contribute to the Circle.

Lettuces

Arctic King
A very hardy butterhead lettuce. I can’t find any information about when it was first offered commercially but it is certainly a variety that can be grown successfully for either over-wintering or sowing early in spring

Australian Yellow leaf
My seed originally came from Real Seeds. It is extremely productive making large loose heads of yellowish frilly, pleasingly crunchy leaves. I’ve found it very reliable. It makes lots of seed too and I have it popping up here and there in the garden. I rate it highly.

Brighton
My seed came from Vital Seeds. It is another reliable cold weather lettuce. I sowed it in October last year, kept it under cover over winter, planted it outside in February, and it made very pleasing buttery heads.

Speckled Amish
I included this partly because of the recent discussion about Frank Morton and his breeding and selecting work. I had this seed from his company, Wild Garden seeds in 2016. The seed still germinated and so I managed to save seed this year.
Information from Fedco Seeds says, “An ornamental bibb of spectacular beauty, its apple-green leaves splashed with maroon flecks, a stunner whether in your garden, on your table or in your salad. Small firm mild-flavored 10" heads shaped like Merveille des Quatre Saisons, centers with soft leaves blanching creamy yellow. Mennonites brought seed in a covered wagon from Lancaster County, Penn., to Ontario in 1799. Introduced into commerce in 1880 as Golden Spotted. Frank Morton has been selecting to alleviate tipburn”

Tomatoes

Indigo Apple
I very much enjoyed this variety this year. It grows abundantly like a cherry tomato but is larger with a slight hint of beefsteak in its shape. It is quite early and productive.

Indigo Cherry Drops
Another excellent tomato, a cherry one, from The OSU indigo breeding programme. I bought my original seed from Thompson & Morgan

Black from Tula
This is a large tomato which is a dark red beefsteak-type with dark green shoulders. There seems some doubt as to whether it originates from Tula in Russia or is a family heirloom from Ukraine. It is said to have a complex smoky flavour. I’m not sure that I could detect the smokiness but the flavour was pleasing and complex.

Stonor’s Most Prolific
This is a variety held by HSL. It is quite prolific, medium sized and orangey-red. The HSL description reads, HSL:
“The donor of this tomato is a 1940s enthusiast and saw this variety mentioned in adverts dating back from at least 1940, before Suttons acquired the seeds from F Stonor of Southampton.
Suttons began marketing the variety in around 1942, when it made its first appearance in their seed catalogue.
It produces strong plants and small, firm, orange-red fruits with pinkish-red flesh, perfect for eating raw in salads and sandwiches.” 

[ruud]

my contribute for now will be :tomatoes- balikesin kivircik
                                                           seftali
                                                            grandma`s viney`s
                                                           blue beauty
                                                           uriasu de dolj
                                                           giant oxheart
                                                           mari de salaj
                                                           appetytnyi
                                         peppers- mozart
                                                       tepecik yakan
                                                       menderes
                                                       carliston
                                                       demre
                                        beans-    turkey craw
                                                      vignerone/weinlanderin
                                                      ice bean crystal wax
                                                      golden sunshine
                                                      large white runner
                                                      controne
I will look if i can contribute some other vegetables too but that will depends on the amount i got from one variety.

[lezelle]

Hi All,
           Wow I didn't think there were so many different plants to grow. Amazing. I now the ones in shops must be mainly f1. I have grown butternut squash and so pleased with results. I will do more consideration now. Brilliant. Thankyou all
Lezelle 

[JanG]

That's great, Ruud. Thanks for getting your list together. A great selection. Some interesting sounding tomatoes especially. Are some of them Turkish?

[ruud]

some from turkey and some from romanian.They are old heirloom types of tomato.

[JanG]

Thanks, and really interesting. When you have time, it would be good to have any information or experiences you’ve got about the most unusual ones, especially the Turkish and Romanian varieties.
I’ve very much enjoyed your Turkish peppers. Çarliston for one has been amazing.

[markfield rover]

For the circle…
Tomatoes.. Seattles Best of All. Indet,78 days. Medium red fruit grows well outside.
                 Salt spring Sunrise.  Semi determinate,some blight resistance, medium size red fruit sturdy plant , grow in or out Canadian variety.
                  Imur Prior Beta . Grows to about 4 foot , happy outdoors, small red/pink fruit. Potato leaf . Originated from Norway. HSL
                   Pigeon Egg. Cordon medium red fruit.  Seed passed on from Seed Savers Exchange Iowa USA in 1992, who no longer conserve it.HSL
                   Blaby Special . My MIL received the seed from Dr Russell Sharp from Lancaster
University who was reintroducing the tomato to Blaby Leicestershire having ceased cultivation after the Second World War, I believe this was about 2006. A medium red fruited cordon.

Runner bean …Gramp Nicholls , HSL , still growing strong! (31/10/23)

Pea …..Tinc A Fleur Blanc , tall white flowered , long pods 6/7 peas good flavour, ex commercial
Variety. HSL

            Stokesley …( as in North Yorkshire ) 4/5 foot tall yellowish pods, white flowers ,sweet tasting.
             Espoir de gembloux…..4/5 foot. Good cropper , originally from Belgium.

Mange Tout….Born …..tall pink/magenta flowers , can be sown early . Named after a Swiss teacher Ester Born. HSL
 
DFB …..Black Valentine, fresh or dry , cool weather tolerant. A really good all rounder. My favourite to date. HSL

            Yugoslavian No4 ….Green flat pods , flowers pale pink lilac. HSL
CFB …….Gramma Walters barlotti.  I haven’t cooked these but it’s recommended for drying.

My dahlia seed saving failed again , but I do have cosmos , Apricotta , and no end of pink morning glory if anyone fancies .
Sorry for lack of information, there just isn’t too much out there.

[JanG]

Great to have that information. Thanks Markfield R. I had you down for a dwarf Borlotti separate from Gramma Walters. Think I got that wrong. It seems it's time for another updated list with Ruud's on and my mistakes corrected. I'll get to that shortly.

And after we get the seed together and redistribute, I'll put all the info you've given onto the Airtable base again.

[JanG]

And some more background info from me - peas and true potato seeds

Peas

Mangetout Frühe Heinrich
My seed came from Vetivert - thank you Vetivert - who originally had seed from Heritage Seed Library. It is a really good mangetout for sowing very early as it’s  quite hardy. I’m trying to growing it overwinter this winter and will see how that goes.There seems to be some question as to whether it’s Dutch or German in origin. It’s a prolific and hardy round seeded mangetout. Plants are about 4’ (1.2m) tall.

Mangetout Winterkefe
Another hardy, possibly more hardy mangetout. I have sown it in October and in February and both worked well. Traditionally in Switzerland it has been grown over winter. About 6’ (2m) tall. My seed was originally from Brown Envelope Seeds in Ireland. 

Mangetout Roi de Carouby
Seed came from HSL. This is quite similar to the more widely available variety, Carouby de Mausanne as both have large sweet pods.There has been discussion on another forum as to whether they are in fact the same variety but it’s thought that they might be different but share a common ancestor.  I haven’t grown the two varieties side by side so would welcome feedback from anyone familiar with Carouby de Mausanne. In the meantime it is an excellent, productive, large podded mangetout 5’ -6’ (about 2m tall

Sugar snap  Spring Blush
This is one of several excellent varieties bred by Alan Kapuler in US. It has a pink blush to the edible pods. It is now quite widely available commercially. Grows to about 6’ (2m).

Pea shoots Dou Miao
I received this in a seed swap with no information. When I looked online I found that it seems to be a dwarf variety grown in China for shoots. Interesting that it has hyper tendrils which I’ve not otherwise come across in a very dwarf pea. It grows only to about 2’ /60cm tall. I'd be interested to know of any other dwarf hypertendril pea varieties.

True potato seed

Tps from Heidi Red. Heidi Red or Heiderot is German bred, dating from 1977. It has deep red skin and flesh, and oval tubers. The seed saved from its berries might well be quite variable in what it produces

Tps from Blue Annelise/Blaue Anneliese. Blue Annelise was bred in the same area of Germany known for its potato growing, Luneburg Heath. It has blue skin and blue flesh, and fair blight resistance.  Again the seed from its berries should produce an interesting range of possibilities.

[ruud]

wenn do you want the seeds on your doorstep

[galina]

https://www.urbanharvest.sg/products/maple-pea-shoots-dou-miao-microgreens-organic

Dou Miau information. 

Maple peas, also known as pea sprouts, pea shoots, or dou miao, are a local favorite in Singapore! They have long, pale stems with tender leaves, and taste best stir fried. Pea shoots can also be enjoyed raw in pastas, sandwiches, as garnishes or in salads.

Sweet and delicate tasting, pea shoots pack a powerful nutrient punch, containing vitamin A, C as well as a myriad of other antioxidants and phyto-nutrients. Maple peas also have a high protein and fibre content.

Peas have to be soaked for 8-12 hours before sowing. Maple pea shoots grow fast and can be harvested in just one week's time, making them perfect for beginner gardeners or those who want to enjoy their delicacy fast. Easy to grow, and tastes fresher than any store bought pea shoots!

eoq

I also know the Mrs Lei aka Mrs Lee pale pink flowered pea is said to be best for pea shoots (its pods are really lovely!) and that one does not have the maple type seeds.  So maple seeds do not automatically equate to peas being used as pea shoots.  Other maple seeded peas, like HSL's Latvian Soup and Latvian Christmas peas are simply non-sweet soup or stew peas.  And neither is that Victorian oddity, the Parsley Pea, which is  most suited to pea shoots because of its leaf shape.   

[JanG]

Hi Ruud and everyone else. Please could you have seeds ready to arrive by the end of November. I will pm all involved with my details in the next 24 hours.
I hope final sorting into six little packages of each variety goes smoothly. Looking forward to some great sharing!

[JanG]

https://www.urbanharvest.sg/products/maple-pea-shoots-dou-miao-microgreens-organic

Dou Miau information. 

Maple peas, also known as pea sprouts, pea shoots, or dou miao, are a local favorite in Singapore! They have long, pale stems with tender leaves, and taste best stir fried. Pea shoots can also be enjoyed raw in pastas, sandwiches, as garnishes or in salads.

Sweet and delicate tasting, pea shoots pack a powerful nutrient punch, containing vitamin A, C as well as a myriad of other antioxidants and phyto-nutrients. Maple peas also have a high protein and fibre content.

Peas have to be soaked for 8-12 hours before sowing. Maple pea shoots grow fast and can be harvested in just one week's time, making them perfect for beginner gardeners or those who want to enjoy their delicacy fast. Easy to grow, and tastes fresher than any store bought pea shoots!

eoq

I also know the Mrs Lei aka Mrs Lee pale pink flowered pea is said to be best for pea shoots (its pods are really lovely!) and that one does not have the maple type seeds.  So maple seeds do not automatically equate to peas being used as pea shoots.  Other maple seeded peas, like HSL's Latvian Soup and Latvian Christmas peas are simply non-sweet soup or stew peas.  And neither is that Victorian oddity, the Parsley Pea, which is  most suited to pea shoots because of its leaf shape.   

Thanks Galina. I didn’t include this information, although would probably have put it in the database, partly because I’m not familiar with the term Maple peas. Can you clarify what they are? I also wouldn’t say they have to be soaked for 8-12 hours. Mine germinated as readily as any other pea. Mine also didn’t grow as fast as is claimed on this site but that was perhaps influenced by the fact that I planted them outdoors from their modules in March while it was still cold.

I can’t be absolutely sure that mine are the authentic Dou Miao. I included them because I was fascinated by the hypertendrils in dwarf peas. (Can it be that maple peas = hypertendril peas)

Any more clues around the question of maple peas gratefully received. And also I’d very much like to know whether dwarf hypertendril peas occur commonly. If in doubt I’ll simply label my seeds as dwarf hypertendrils.

And of course, any variety of pea can be grown for shoots. The abundance of tendrils adds a little something though.

[galina]

Maple refers to the seed pattern.  The Unity pea which we had in the circle has the maple pattern. The seed packet in the previous url shows the pattern too.  Marbled on a brown background is maybe the best way to describe the colour of this seed.

https://www.midlandsnz.com/our-products/seed/maple-peas

This seed colour does not necessarily go with the semi leafless, aka hypertendril feature.  However all maple peas I know are non sweet peas, neutral starchy, rather than sweet and therefore fit well with savoury stews etc.  Whereas the classic green mushy pea has a sweetness to it, mushy peas or hummus made from maple seeded peas are not sweet.  Maple ie marbled seeds come in large and medium sized.  Unity and Latvian Christmas are large,  Latvian soup is medium sized.  Picture shows maple pea Latvian Soup. 

Hypertendrils are very frequently bred into short, farmed petit pois or garden peas (think Birdseye freezer packets rather than savoury peas), as they prevent lodging, ie the whole stand of peas falling over flat on the ground in high winds, which would make it impossible to harvest with combine harvesters.  The hypertendril feature makes plants cling to each other much tighter than ordinary pea tendrils do.  I grew a batch of Sugar Magnolia with hypertendrils and rather than needing several tall support sticks and tying my tall peas up, the Sugar Magnolias only needed one sturdy stick and they clung to that and to each other.  It is a useful feature, but mostly employed in commercial pea farming. 

[JanG]

Thank you for a full explanation. I'm familiar with the marbled-type seed coat but hadn't come across the term 'maple' before. I wonder why that term is used. I can't think of a connection between maples and that patterning.

So, my Dou Miao doesn't have maple seeds so clearly not Dou Miao!

I had previously connected hypertendrils with Alan Kapuler varieties like Sugar Magnolia. But it sounds as though my peas are very like the commercial ones you refer to. In fact they look like a typical wrinkled pea. I didn't taste them so can't vouch for their sweetness. It's probably best not to send these to the Circle then, unless anyone wants a dwarf self-supporting pea for either shoots or for trying for sweetness.