Topic: Useless D'Arcy Spice

[davholla]

I planted this in 2007 and it has never given much fruit and this year none, also it does not taste very nice.
Should I give it one more year or kill it?  If one more year what should I do?
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/1491182/40189750//in/album/838230

[johhnyco15]

not sure where you live Dave but this apple doesn't like clay its not a good cropper at the best of time and is very frost sensitive so id give it careful consideration and maybe do the unthinkable and dig it up and put something a little more suited to your needs hope this helps

[davholla]

not sure where you live Dave but this apple doesn't like clay its not a good cropper at the best of time and is very frost sensitive so id give it careful consideration and maybe do the unthinkable and dig it up and put something a little more suited to your needs hope this helps

I live in South London/North Kent although my soil is not London clay I think awaiting other replies that you can be right.

[Deb P]

I planted and grew a D'Arcy Spice tree when we first moved here in 1994. It took about five years to start fruiting, then I had biennial crops, some so heavy they snapped branches (my fault for not thinning out properly). This is on clay soil too.
Your tree looks like it has a bit of weed or grass competition at the bottom, I would try a bit of TLC before scrapping it, clear the square meter around the trunk and feed/ mulch with some nice manure and see how it goes.Have you ever pruned it?

[davholla]

I planted and grew a D'Arcy Spice tree when we first moved here in 1994. It took about five years to start fruiting, then I had biennial crops, some so heavy they snapped branches (my fault for not thinning out properly). This is on clay soil too.
Your tree looks like it has a bit of weed or grass competition at the bottom, I would try a bit of TLC before scrapping it, clear the square meter around the trunk and feed/ mulch with some nice manure and see how it goes.Have you ever pruned it?

I have pruned it.  What is the best way to clear the square meter around it and keep it clear?  I did put newspaper round it to kill all the weeds/grass round it but some kind person "tidied it" up.

[Deb P]

I would just gently fork out the grass and weeds in at least a metre circle, put down cardboard or a thick layer of newspapers and then mulch with a thick layer of manure on top of that, leaving a small gap around  the trunk so the manure isn't piled up against it. I'd winter prune it too, it has fruiting spurs and is a tip bearer too so try and leave some longer branch ends unpruned to get the best chance of a decent crop...

[Russell]

I'm not keen on disturbing the soil, those fine roots working their way up into the fertile underside of the turf are very important to the tree. They are its feeding roots so they affect cropping capacity. A no-dig way to clear the area which I agree should be at least a yard across would be to cut all vegetation to the ground (not strim), cover with a layer or two of mulch matting and two or three inches of wood chip (free on my allotments). Are there any nearby larger trees competing for root space and/or sunlight? If so this will affect cropping if it has not already done so and you will sooner or later have to make choices.
Although the picture does show a healthy little tree with good shoot extension this season, it also shows quite a small tree for its age which cannot have had the same good shoot extensions in previous seasons or it would by now be much bigger. Has it has a hard life in the past? If so you must have patience as it seems to be on the right road now.
I cannot comment much further because I have no personal experience of this variety, however I must say that the tree shape is rather indistinct. Are you aiming for the traditional open-centre shape or is it to be a centre-leader? Now would be a good time to make a decision.

[davholla]

There is another apple tree nearby a family tree but I think the spacing is more than the minimum for M26 rootstocks.
This is it's neighbour
http://www.deaconsnurseryfruits.co.uk/product/apple-triple-jupiterjesterfiesta

Apple Triple – Jupiter/Jester/Fiesta

They were both planted in 2007 and I am quite happy with the neighbour

[davholla]

PS in 2012 an idiot attacked it and cut a big piece off.  (I was ill and foolish believed that the idiot could garden).

[Deb P]

Sorry,can't agree with the woodchip suggestion, although it's debatable from a 'nitrogen robbing' point of view depending on whose research you believe, I would still be cautious because of the potential for disease transfer. Few people really know the source of their wood chips, and the likelihood of it containing diseased material is high when you think of what you usually prune out. You are trying to give your little tree a bit of a boost and TLC not give it more problems. Agree you don't have to disturb the soil if you don't want to before mulching. Keep wood chips for paths.
Incidentally I purchased my D'Arcy spice tree from Deacons nursery, as a maiden  way back in about 1993!

[johhnyco15]

Darcy spice are also partail tip bearers so if your pruning  back each season your are in effect pruning off the flower buds i checked about the clay and the rhs recommend that you don't plant Darcy spice in clay of course it will grow but its not going to reach full potential i agree with deb  would not do wood chip weed fabric is OK lest the moisture thru if you want to mulch it then leaf mould would be the safest as long as its well rotted hope this helps

[davholla]

I'm not keen on disturbing the soil, those fine roots working their way up into the fertile underside of the turf are very important to the tree. They are its feeding roots so they affect cropping capacity. A no-dig way to clear the area which I agree should be at least a yard across would be to cut all vegetation to the ground (not strim), cover with a layer or two of mulch matting and two or three inches of wood chip (free on my allotments). Are there any nearby larger trees competing for root space and/or sunlight? If so this will affect cropping if it has not already done so and you will sooner or later have to make choices.
Although the picture does show a healthy little tree with good shoot extension this season, it also shows quite a small tree for its age which cannot have had the same good shoot extensions in previous seasons or it would by now be much bigger. Has it has a hard life in the past? If so you must have patience as it seems to be on the right road now.
I cannot comment much further because I have no personal experience of this variety, however I must say that the tree shape is rather indistinct. Are you aiming for the traditional open-centre shape or is it to be a centre-leader? Now would be a good time to make a decision.

To be honest I hadn't thought about what shape to go for any ideas?

[davholla]

I forgot to mention that we did (I was ill and didn't have much say in the matter) put a pond behind it in 2011 which you cannot see from the photo.

[davholla]

How do I prune a tip bearing apple tree?

[galina]

How do I prune a tip bearing apple tree?

The only way I know is half prune (leaving plenty of tips) and get to the other half next year.  Much easier said than done.  If somebody has a good method, I'd love to learn how to do it better :)

[davholla]

Actually do I need to prune it as it is not that big?

[Vinlander]

I have had a D'Arcy Spice in my garden since about 1990 and I remember moaning about its poor cropping in the 90s to one of the experts at Brogdale (probably Joan Morgan if I remember correctly) who raised her eyebrows...

I'm pretty sure I was treating it well but I am on heavy London clay and Brogdale isn't.

It started producing decent crops only a few years ago (still about 50% biennial) but it's never going to be in the top quartile for cropping.

However the flavour has always been the most unique one among my 20-odd varieties (most uniquely good I should say - I have been very disappointed by Cornish Aromatic in most years - but then I find Gala simply disgusting - especially the skin).

If your tree doesn't have a special flavour (though the sweetness, juicyness and crispness takes longer to appear)  then you have to suspect it might not be what it is labelled.

Be aware I used several nurseries before I got a true Claygate Pearmain from Scotts (now defunct) and I had more than one mislabelling from Deacons (though that was a long time ago).

The apple has a noticeably "dappled" green skin compared to most others with only a hint of yellow at most. It is also sort of lumpy...

If I had a photo I'd attach it but the lumpiness is here http://www.adamsappletrees.co.uk/asps/uploads/big/136-2.jpg though it's far too red to be anywhere except on the S side of a free-standing tree.

and the mottling is here - sort-of... http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/image/cache/data/Apple-DArcy-Spice-400x400.jpg though you can't see the "threadyness" of the pattern and the shape of the fruit is unfeasibly regular to my eye.

If you have a real D'Arcy Spice and it's on clay then now is a good time to move it to some better-prepared soil!

I wish I had.

Cheers.

[davholla]

I have had a D'Arcy Spice in my garden since about 1990 and I remember moaning about its poor cropping in the 90s to one of the experts at Brogdale (probably Joan Morgan if I remember correctly) who raised her eyebrows...

I'm pretty sure I was treating it well but I am on heavy London clay and Brogdale isn't.

It started producing decent crops only a few years ago (still about 50% biennial) but it's never going to be in the top quartile for cropping.

However the flavour has always been the most unique one among my 20-odd varieties (most uniquely good I should say - I have been very disappointed by Cornish Aromatic in most years - but then I find Gala simply disgusting - especially the skin).

If your tree doesn't have a special flavour (though the sweetness, juicyness and crispness takes longer to appear)  then you have to suspect it might not be what it is labelled.

Be aware I used several nurseries before I got a true Claygate Pearmain from Scotts (now defunct) and I had more than one mislabelling from Deacons (though that was a long time ago).

The apple has a noticeably "dappled" green skin compared to most others with only a hint of yellow at most. It is also sort of lumpy...

If I had a photo I'd attach it but the lumpiness is here http://www.adamsappletrees.co.uk/asps/uploads/big/136-2.jpg though it's far too red to be anywhere except on the S side of a free-standing tree.

and the mottling is here - sort-of... http://www.kenmuir.co.uk/image/cache/data/Apple-DArcy-Spice-400x400.jpg though you can't see the "threadyness" of the pattern and the shape of the fruit is unfeasibly regular to my eye.

If you have a real D'Arcy Spice and it's on clay then now is a good time to move it to some better-prepared soil!

I wish I had.

Cheers.

How do you move an Apple tree?  I don't have better soil could it go in a big pot?

[galina]

I don't think you can move a tree this size into a large pot, but you could perhaps lay a ring of bricks around the tree or some other very low 'wall' and fill the inside with good compost.  The bricks etc just make sure that the compost stays in place for the benefit of the tree.  And perhaps fill up with cut grass mulches over next summer (up to but not covering the stem).  This sort of arrangement should keep weed competition in check and ensure that the tree gets good nutrients.  The grass mulch is rich in nitrogen and also smothers any weeds.  Good luck   

[davholla]

I will have to check but it is possible that the spacing is not enough.  Apparently it should be  2.4-3.6m (8-12ft)