Allotments 4 All
Produce => Pests & Diseases => Topic started by: mark_h on April 02, 2005, 15:25:09
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After seeing weeds keep popping up on my lottie I've decided its time to resort to my chemicals of mass destruction(round-up). I hope George or Tony isnt reading this or my lottie might get invaded!! :P ;D Seriously though, I've set a poll up to see what percentage of readers do and dont use chemicals.
Mark
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I tend to use chemicals to keep the weeds down on the paths between my allotments, and on vacant allotments.
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I have answered that I don't use chemicals, but that doesn't mean I am totally organic, as I don't use organic seeds.
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I don't use any chemicals on my lottie. But have to use slug pellets around young plants in garden or I'd have a plant free garden. And yes I've tried beer etc to no avail, nice beer though..... ;)
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I never use chemicals. I had some greenfly on my climbing roses the other day.
Filled the spray bottle with tepid water and went on the warpath. I sprayed all the affected twigs with my bear hands and am glad to say they have all been desimated.
;D
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I'm using nettles in my compost bins and to make tea. Also I'm going to make some soup (recipe from Champneys no less). My husband who loves weedkiller but hates plants put Roundup on the nettles a few weeks ago. They are now thriving and look very healthy and pretty. ;D I shall wait and see if they keel over before picking some tops for the soup
My allotment is mostly weeds so I'd need an ocean full of the stuff to make any impression so I've put sheet mulch down and cardboard etc and manure for the worms to take down. Hopefully in a year or so the worms and mulch will have done the hard work for me
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Too broad a question.
Certainly use Roundup, selectively, but not on the growing area. Like bindweed, ground elder, nettles & ivy. Mainly painted on.
Certainly not chemicals on food crops. Except Bordeaux on potatoes.
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I use Roundup on the more stubourn weeds which wont comply with my requests to leave and once a year,give my lawn a weed/feed treatment,but generally try and keep it to a minimum.
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When we took on our full plot the guy before us had covered anything not being used with chipped bark. Unbeknown to us (and maybe even him) there was loads of chipped bellbind root in it and it spread like billy-o. We did nuke that with roundup and we did a spray on the paths between our plots. On the whole that was it but like Tim I will paint the stubborn areas. I/we haven't used chemicals since.
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I use a squirt of Round-up from time to time. Mostly I dig weed roots out the best I can. At the moment I`m pleasantly surprised by how weed free my plot is. But I`m not aiming for total weed free-ness.
This year I`ve made my paths narrower as the edges of those supported weed growth.
I have a long side of my plot which is allowed to be grassy and weedy as my daffs are there and poppies will come through later. The roots of these are needed to support a change of soil level between mine and the next plot. At the end of the year I will strim it and take out docks and dandelions.
I also allow nettles behind my shed to discourage small boys who may like to lurk there.
I use blood, fish and bone and plan to use beer traps for slugs as I want to encourage natural predators.
When I first got my plot I used slash and burn to clear five foot high weed growth, I think that would have burnt weed seeds.
I was wondering, if I kept a bar of soap in the shed and washed my hands in a bowl before I left for home could I use that water to throw over my roses?
Col
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I have never used a chemical on my garden or yet on my lottie - I hope I never have to do so although should the worst come to the worst I cannot guarentee that I will not should every other option fail. I currently have beer traps down for the slugs and I am grwoing marigolds and other plants to encourage beneficial insects. I am also embarking on some research, inspired by the bugs and pests thread on the mainboard, into all the different organic 'teas' the french use - some of which are herbicidal/fungicidal/insecticidal. However, I do not want to compromise the balance of friendly minibeasts that I hope to build up over the coming years.
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ooo yes, I shall be using bordeaux on my lottie toms. :-\
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Col you can use your hand washing water on your plants as it's said to deter aphids or kill em (not sure which) you can also put it in a spray for a more targeted attack ;D
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A fellow lottie owner gave me a cabbage from his plot. I knew he used slug pellets around his produce and guess what I found inside one of the outer leaves in the cabbage, you've got it in one, remnants of a slug pellet. :o Not much of the cabbage got eaten that day.
Chicken pellets is the only thing I have used. And as for weeding, I know it is back breaking but, I just get on with it. What is the point of growing your own if you are going to use chemicals. I'm not totally organic as some of the seeds are not, but the potatoes are Organic.
Happy weeding ;D
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I started off with my lottie only intending to grow organic carrots as I'd once read about how they soak up pesticides. The rest I was going to grow chemically (if that's an expression!). I used weedol on the annual weeds and dug them out, and then used Sybol on the cabbages that first season. But I still got things nibbled, and one day asked a plot owner how he got flawless and large cabbages.
"Spray every couple of weeks" was the answer. I thought about how much pesticide must remain on a cabbage (it can't all be washed out from the inside) and was rather scared.
I haven't used sprays (other than organic-permitted derris for the flea beetle) on anything since.
And the bindweed? I have a good dig at it every year, and hardly have any field BW now. The hedge bindweed (large white one) is still endemic in my soft fruit but again each year I pull it out and selectively glyphosate the easier to get at bits. So I'm gradually winning. Least that's what I tell myself!
(though if I find the blighters which ate my lovely loo roll-grown parsnips I'll... !!)
moonbells
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No i don't intend using weedkillers thats the idea of having the plot, getting away from intense farming. Like Wardy i've put plastics down to keep the weeds down until i get time to dig it. Whats Bordeaux? apart from red wine.
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A copper compound I think - a big NO NO!!
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Thanks for all the replies so far. I haven't sprayed the round-up on where the beds are so far. I have sprayed mostly where the paths are going to be and the boundary between mine and the un-occupied neighbouring plot.
These lotties havent been cultivated before so on the bad side there is a lot of work still to do(and its heavy clay soil!!). On the good side, I can start with a completely blank canvas.
Mark
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Have picked 'organic' cos I haven't used any chemicals yet. Not using organic seeds though.
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Never used any weedkillers or any chemicals on my lottie or our garden. Just dig all the weeds out as best I can. Have never used slug pellets. Take evasive action organically with other things, and sometimes use soap sprays etc for aphids but the rest we live with. Still have lots of lovely tasty vegetables at the end of it.
We buy a few organic seeds but not all that many, so we are not totally organic either. I am quite happy with our level of productivity and it is good to know that what we eat is a lot safer than Supermarket stuff. busy_lizzie
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I've recently resorted to spraying my brick path but other than that I just use derris.
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Wots a chemical? Bordeaux definately is, albeit one with some limited organic approval -although it's an inorganic compound? I've got an unopened tub but I don't think I'll be using it as it's basically the same stuff that I put on the bottom of the boat to kill things -not at all nice and something of a pollutant.
So far I'm chemical-free at the allotment (unless you count seaweed drenches -which I don't.). I don't plan to use weedkillers at all, just mulches and hoe-ing/hand weeding. Less sure about pesticides though, although I'll start with barrier methods and deterrents like coffee. That said I'm not too convinced by coffee, looking at the way the beasties run when you pour it on, on the other hand the worms seem to thrive in it if my wormery is anything to go by.
Jeremy
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I use chemicals to keep the weeds down on the vacant allotmments either side but other than that I just put plastic down until I'm ready to use the land and weed when it's got crops in.
Luckily we don't have a big problem with slugs etc.
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I am chemical free, and there isn't a chemical developed or discovered that would nuke my mares tail plantation - if there was I may well be tempted. I just hoe and hoe and hoe. Black plasticked some beds for over a year, when I took the plastic up there were the mares tail shoots, on the surface, just waiting for the sunlight.
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I have to say I can't believe how many people are using Roundup! Without wishing to be too much of a scaremonger, this is a very very dangerous product. Studies in Columbia, where aerially sprayed Roundup is used to kill cocaine plants, show enormously harmful side effects including burning eyes, dizziness, respiratory problems, gastric disorders, and impaired reproductive function... Believe me, you do not want to be putting this stuff on your allotment!
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have to say I agree with you on the roundup Piers, everyone except me uses on our site. Scary
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Are humans pests??
They obviously know something??
"One final precaution, Roundup, like all other pesticides should always be used..."
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I use all sorts of foliar feeds ;) ;) ;D
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Especially seaweed - organic?
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i've answered that i may in the future. i haven't yet and hope not to but i've been fighting a patch of couch and creeping buttercup for 20 months now and i may have to research something to get rid of that if i can't sort it this year. its been under black plastic for over a year and it seems to have made a difference. here's hoping....
oh apart from a bit of derris on the gooseberry sawflies.
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I would like to find something that is effective against the bloody pests that broke into our shed again. Just come back from the plot and it have been ransacked. Easter holidays eh ? Why can't they do something less annoying with their time.
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Hi all,my 1st post here,been reading site for a while.
Felt I had to post just to say that i'm amazed at how many of you use chemicals,the reason I grow my own is to get away from chemically pumped up fruit and veg from supermarkets etc.I know that some of you don't use it on your veg but I think any use of chemicals is a serious threat to the enviroment and damaging to micro-organisms within the soil,basically its not just the weeds your killing.
Saying that i'm not totally organic because sometimes i can't find organic seeds for certain things i want to grow. ::)
Cheers,Dar the hypocrite. :)
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i am very interested in 'natural' concoctions for fighting pests - so long as they easily produced. various receipes included boiling rhubarb leaves for two hours and using the resulting 'tincture' - but i cant remember on what???
i have bought a ready mixed insecticide at B&Q which i am pleased to say actually carried the HDRA stamp of approval for being organic. so, i hope this will sort my whitefly, aphids and a few other nasties.
i must go and find those websites again that give natural (even if officially illegal) receipes...
svea
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I try to keep a garden and veg patch free from artificial fertilizers and pest controllers.
Instead, I encourage as many living things as possible into the garden, with a hedgehog house, various woodpiles in secluded spots, a small wildlife patch, pond for the frogs and bird feeders inc. a birdtable that is topped up at least twice a day.
In return the frogs have a go at the slugs, the birds peck off greenfly from here, there and everywhere and probably unseen, but doing their bit are a good cross-section of bugs that prey on other troublesome pests.
In addition, I try to hold plants back in my 6'x6' greenhouse, until they are larger and stronger and able to withstand some gnawing from pests. When all is done though, some things don't survive and I just think that's life. :)
Art
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i have used/am using weedol and sodium chloride on paths and uncultivated bits to try to tame the rampant couch grass as my poor old back can't take much more digging!
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for Svea - you might enjoy this http://oisat.org/? Bug juice ???
All best - Gavin
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SODIUM CHLORIDE, excuse me shouting but that stuff leaches into your garden from the paths and takes a long long time to degrade, also if you start using another brand of weedkiller at a later date it will mix in with it ending up with a lethal concoction.
I was lucky that I passed quite a few exams and am qualified to spray pesticides/herbicides unlike most of you and also the young contractors that ride around on quads spraying the streets and pavements.
Before you treat any 'public' area you have to check what has been sprayed before which should be recorded and a copy used to be sent to MAFF. Public means just that, if other people come on your plot/garden/drive. Postie/milkman/friends even children chasing their ball it is public.
How many people have a tin of weedkiller in the shed that has been there years, it is frightening that this stuff is still being used.
If you must spray, I still do as I cannot afford to be overrun with weeds or desease. First check what has been used in the past, then measure your area and calibrate how much chemical you have to use, the directions can be obtained easily on the web, or a leaflet inside the packet. Do not add one for the pot. Then make a note on the date, dosage and type to keep for future reference.
If you cannot do this then go organic, I wish I could.
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How many people have a tin of weedkiller in the shed that has been there years, it is frightening that this stuff is still being used.
If you cannot do this then go organic, I wish I could.
Not me guv - never owned the stuff. Currently researching all the teas which may prove useful. It seems if you spray neat nettle tea this acts as an effective herbicide.
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I only have a far too small garden so it's relatively easy for me to avoid chemicals. This is the first year with fruit and veg. but it makes even more sense not to use chemicals on something we're about to eat!
I've lost various plants to various beasties and nasties over the years and annoyed as I always am at the time, with hindsight I know I'd always rather take the loss than upset the natural balance.
On the other hand, of course, I don't - yet, but I'm getting very tempted - have a large, possibly overgrown allotment to tame and keep controlled :) Maybe I'd be singing a different tune then :-\ ?
Ellkebe
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On the pesticide side of the thread - I find it interesting that, since I have stopped treating the greenhouse with the state of the art atomising sprayer or predators, I have had 2 clean years without either. Just an Armillatox washdown in the autumn & a smoke in the Spring. And the odd squidging in passing.
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Tongue-in-cheek - sodium chloride = common salt? (Feeling smug - I dropped science at age 12 :) :) :) )
But sodium chlorate? http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weedkill.htm. Not something anybody should be using around crops for eating? Kills every living thing in the soil for six months or more? Scary.
This page http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_chlorate.html gives me the willies. Dunno - I don't have anything like heritage's experience or expertise.
All best - Gavin
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SODIUM CHLORIDE, excuse me shouting but that stuff leaches into your garden from the paths and takes a long long time to degrade, also if you start using another brand of weedkiller at a later date it will mix in with it ending up with a lethal concoction.
Um, sodium chloride is salt. Don't you mean sodium chlorate?
moonbells
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I must condiment you all for correcting me
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Hi all
for months here I read about mares tail and horses tail and the woe involved, little did I know that I had an infestation. It was only about 2 weeks or so ago that I saw a photo, and someone on the Ch4 prog had an example on the viewer query section confirmed it. I spot treated most of it with round up. They are mixed in with a lot of bluebells and tulips so I had to dribble it on. Elsewhere I got a tabloid sized double page, ripped about 6" in the centre and gathered several stalks together in the gap and gave them a squirt. You shoulda seen the colour of the paper after a few mins!!! Several spikes are fading, but this evening when I went next door to cut their side of our hedge (retired father and son ZERO interest in gardening) I discovered a Kevin Costner field of dre...er, nightmarish scenario of hundreds of mares tail. AAAaaaghhhh
Bloody norah batty. Do they spread via seed a la dandelion or subterraneously like chinese lantern or jump like strawberry and ivy??? Oh I could not believe it. Hundreds of the buggers...
Aside from that, I have used Verdone in an attempt to treat dandelion after two years of digging out. Have found it to be ineffective in my back garden, but I did treat some large dandies on public land across from my house and they did seem to wobble a bit, but still seemed to go to seed regardless.
I don't grow anything edible, mostly hedge and grass to keep me busy with my own trial of sunflowers this summer and a few other bits and pieces...
I lost some darling irises the other day and I was quite upset. I bought a kilo of slug pellets with the intention of using it up in a week, nearly! Till someone here confirmed what I had suspected that the slugs are attracted to them and are then killed by them. Ugh, cannot stand the sight of 'em. I need to tidy up the flopped over bluebell leaves and other flotsam and jetsam in the garden, old pots, bits of plastic, general detritus and not make it so home from home for them...then maybe I'll see less of them...
So, I will press the third option in the voting...
Ciaran
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Horsetail spreads two ways, by creeping roots, which is how you're getting it from the neighbours, and by spores. Spores need damp to develop into the adult stage, and aren't that efficient as a means of propagation. But the roots are killers.
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Oh dear! Thanks for that anyway Robert.
Ciaran
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I wouldn't use chemicals if I could - but I can't anyway as I'm allergic to them. In fact, I have a neurological illness which can be caused by exposure to chemicals. So I heartily agree with Piers - & would recommend all chemical users to read his post & take note.
Interestingly, since I moved here & started gardening organically, there has been a massive increase in wildlife in the garden - we now have ladybirds, hoverflies, & sparrows eating our aphids, & blackbirds, hedgehogs, & a frog eating our slugs (not sure where the frog is living - we don't even have a pond!). Lost one clematis to wilt, but nothing to pests. Woodchip around the flower beds keeps the weeds down & encourages friendly fungi. Garden is very healthy.
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Full on chemical warfar then with you Ciaran ;)
If you have pest problems this may be the cause. Chemical kill everything, not just the things you want it to kill (I am talking pests here and not weeds although I am 110% organic) this upsets the balance and it is the pests that come back first - the predators will not return until there is something to predate. It will take a few years but the best thing to do is to go organic and provide the right conditions for the friends. Woody dark areas encourage hedgehogs and along with a pond will encourage frogs and toads (some slug pellets kill these if they eat infected slugs). Plant marigolds for greenfly and put up boxes for ladyburds and bumble bees.
There - got that off my chest.
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I would love to be totally organic but the common perennials (bindweed, thistle, dock, couchgrass) have ignored the eviction notice I served so out came the Roundup.
It's only used on the fallow land which is undergoing long-term improvement & won't be sown with anything for the next two years.
Land currently under cultivation only gets organic fertilizer & I'm steadily moving over to organic seed.
CC
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Just been reading all these posts with interest. We try to use chemicals only when we have to. This mostly tends to be glyphosate on the lottie. With all the perennial weeds it would be virtually impossible to control without. We do use black plastic & old carpet but it amazes me how far bindweed will travel just to find a bit of light. It might be easier if adjacent allotments & the hedge didn't have weeds that spread. A couple of years ago we also sprayed against blight on the tomatoes having lost most of the crop 2 years running. That was sheer desperation. Luckily no sign of it last year. Fingers crossed for this one.
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when I find bindweed escaping from under black plastic, I just shove it back well underneath and enjoy listening to the screams.