Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: aquilegia on March 29, 2005, 09:36:38
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How deep should my spud trenches be?
We've finally finished the second raised bed - the one for spuds. It's been coffeed, so I have to wait two weeks to plant, so have plenty of time to sort the trenches out. I've never grown spuds in the ground before!
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Aqui,
They need 4 - 6" of soil above them when planted.
As it's a very good idea to add organic matter to the bottom of the trench you need to allow for that
I dig to a spade's depth, put a forkful per tuber then bed the tuber into the muck, ease back the muck (this helps protect the sprouts you've carefully chitted), sprinkle with blood fish and bone and gently cover with soil. And don't forget the label with all those different varieties!
Phil
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Thanks Phil.
Because I'm useless with labels, I've drawn a plan of what's going where. There'll only be nine in the ground (that's all I've room for). The ones in bags will have the variety and date planted written on the side. I'm trying to be organised this year!
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When it comes to spud planting it depends what school you follow, Aqui.
What I do is dig a trench a spade width wide and about a spade depth. I go along the trench with a garden fork making a few holes along it's length. Into the trench I spread a light covering og manure. On top of this I put a layer of loose soil which leaves me with about half a spade depth free. On top of the soil I put the spuds making sure the eyes are uppermost. Any extra sprouting is rubbed off at this stage. I space them about a foot apart for earlies and a 'bit more' for main crop spuds.
I fill the trench with the soil I took out but then with a hoe I lift soil from the far side of the trench onto the row. This leaves me with a mound of soil on the spuds of about 3 or 4".
When the first leaves show I rake up more soil to cover the leaves. I keep raking up over the weeks until the leaves are just too big to cover. When the flower arrives, I wait about 10 days or so, cut the haulm down to about 3" from the ground and lift the spuds around 2 weeks after that. I usually 'have a look' at what's going on by removing soil from the first plant in a row.
This isn't the only method, but it's one that I've tried and tested for long enough to warrent doing.
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We did ours at the weekend.
Our soil is incredible free draining - or bascially drought conditions most of the year. We put straw at the bottom of the trench and then soaked it. Then put soil on top then the spuds then more soil that had been well manured.
Now I'm really worried about 2 things:
1) nitrogen all disappearing cos of the un-rotted straw
2) all the wheat seeds in the straw germinating and just producing a field of wheat instead of a row of spuds
If the wheat does germinate - will it be easy to weed out - and it's not perennial is it?
Oh dear, what have we done. Worry, worry, worry...
Sarah.
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I don't think the seeds will be a problem Sarah, they're quite a way down and will be further when they've earthed up.
Not sure about the nitrogen robbery -maybe you should've soaked the straw in wee :o You could always add some extra fertiliser.
Jeremy
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This is all too much like hard work.
On many occasions, I've just used a bulb planter & dropped the potato into the hole!! No complaints about the crop!!
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Sarah,
You would have been better with composted material but as you are where you are try a bit of nitrogen fertiliser before the first earthing up.
Pelleted chicken manure is good, if the leaves look a bit thin and weedy (or even if they don't) you could treat them to a foliar feed of seaweed based fertiliser
Phil
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I did mine like this ;) Trench spit deep, rake soil back after of course ::)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/simon404/P3280010.jpg)
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Phew, thank goodness for Tim's comment as this is all I've done with my 1st earlies. I asked what my father-in-law has done in the past and he said "pop them in with the potato dibber and earth up when necessary"
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If the ground had been recently dug and manured then i'd say fine, pop them in with a trowell. Its the looseness of the soil that matters I think, :-\ More than one way of skinning a cat and all that :)
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We did ours at the weekend.
Our soil is incredible free draining - or bascially drought conditions most of the year. We put straw at the bottom of the trench and then soaked it. Then put soil on top then the spuds then more soil that had been well manured.
Now I'm really worried about 2 things:
<snip>
Having the same soil ;) a bit further down the hill, I know what you mean. It's chucking it down at the moment and I expect I'll be able to dig again by Thursday if there's no more rain.
I did exactly what folk here have recommended - dug a spit down and manured it then pushed tubers into it. Hard work lifting the soil out of the trench though when you've a dodgy back!
The HDRA doesn't seem to think that doing no-dig spuds with fresh straw is a problem - and some is bound to get dragged into the soil by worms. I'd put seaweed meal and chicken pellets on top of the soil, which when washed in should counteract the straw. You've already put manured soil on top, which will also do the trick. And you'll have beautifully scab-free spuds and can come and blow raspberries at mine ;D
moonbells
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It's not a bad idea to throw some grass cuttings on top of the spuds either.
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I did mine like this ;) Trench spit deep, rake soil back after of course ::)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/simon404/P3280010.jpg)
This is interesting as I am almost ready to plant my first earlies for the first time ever :o ;D but looking at your soil Simon, it looks a little lumpy (thanks 4 the Piccy ;)) is that acceptable ??? I hope you say yes because I was thinking I will have to till the soil until it is a lot finer than that to cover the seeds.
Waiting anxiously...Roy ??? ;D
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god, we have been so careful putting the seed potatoes in with lots of TLC on the weekend.
result? we got laughed at by the old folks at the allotment :) they just bung them in, not too much care, and the stuff grows.
we have very lumpy soil (dare i say big clods of clay?) and i placed the chitted seed on top of a handful of fine earth/compost mix, then more fine earth immediately around the seed pot. then fill up the rest of the trench with the lumpy earth as well as possible.
only time will tell if this will be fine like the oldtimers insist ;)
svea
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Roy - I break the soil down a bit more when raking it back in the trench, but as a general rule I've found you don't need to be too fussy with potatoes as say with sowing fine seeds such as carrots, which do need a very fine tilth. Potatoes are very forgiving and can't help but grow! Hope this helps. :)
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morning all, with potatoes l always seem to think that you have plenty of time to work the soil to a fine tilth once the potatoes have been planted, also just drop the spuds in the ground they will find there own way up to grow.
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We dug a trench heaping the soil either side. Then we loosened the bottom of the trench and planted the pots with a trowell. Top dressed and left them. The idea being that we do not have to earth them up - simply scrape the sides of the trench back in. That's the idea anyway.
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We've done much the same, though we have more of a patch than a trench, dug it all a spit deep, loosened the clay underneath put a layer of manure then a fine layer of compost stuck in the tubers covered over from the heap of topsoil we'd dug out, the plan being to shovel more of the topsoil back on as they grow.
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Whether you "just bung em in" or go for the full trench and FYM, they will grow.
The quantity and quality of the crop will vary according to the conditions they grow in.
If, as I suspect, Tim's soil is in good condition, thanks to years of effort then the bung it in approach will give good results.
For those of us with less than perfect conditions, like everything else in life, the more you put in the more you get out.
I would like to dissociate myself from Simon's insensitivity to feline cruelty, no cats were hurt in the planting of my spuds ;)
Phil
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Hi all,
I planted mine (Charlottes which did better than King Edwards last year) the same as Baggy. I did this mostly because I don`t know any better :(.
I have been worried that they may be too deep.
Thanks Baggy I`m a bit less worried now. :D
I have some others chitting I can`t remember what though,
I`ll be doing them different and making a comparision.
Col
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Phil - ;D Took me about ten minutes to geddit but I got there in the end. ;)
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I planted some left over Charlottes (about 20) from Tesco's last year in some nice deep soil.
I dug a trench a spade wide and deep. I chucked the spuds in about 2 feet apart and covered them up. If the soil is soft enough, they don't want hilling up as they are deep enough.
The Charlottes were extremely prolific and were actually better than the original 'taters I bought in the first place.
I STILL have about 100 for seed to plant soon. This is after us gorging on them all Summer and storing them in my garage in a box all winter.
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Hmmm! I'm new to all this. I've got a bag of five different varieties from the organic gardening catalogue, so I thinks I'll just put them in six inches deep and see what comes up. Learn by experience!
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I planted some left over Charlottes (about 20) from Tesco's last year in some nice deep soil.
I dug a trench a spade wide and deep. I chucked the spuds in about 2 feet apart and covered them up. If the soil is soft enough, they don't want hilling up as they are deep enough.
The Charlottes were extremely prolific and were actually better than the original 'taters I bought in the first place.
I STILL have about 100 for seed to plant soon. This is after us gorging on them all Summer and storing them in my garage in a box all winter.
Hmmm - I am new to this as well but I would not put supermarket spuds in the ground on my lottie - I have had enough warnings here and elsewhere. Certified spuds are free of blight and other disease which can infect your ground for ten years. Therefore I only use certified seed potato. I do not think my fellow plot holders would approve of anything else - rightly - :-o)
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I think I'm going to go with Tim's method. We've literally just finished digging and sieving the soil (it was gross), so it's all nice and fine anyway.
Planted 10 spuds in various containers yesterday. Most fun. Can't wait to get some in the soil (but I have to leave it due to the coffee!)
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Can I put fresh chook muck mixed with wood shavings in the bottoms of the trenches ?
It's something I have plenty of ;D
Mike
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Now I may be asking the most stupid question here :-[
I have read up and now know about earlys second early and maincrop what i need to know is do i plant potatoes in stages like early say 1st week april then a few weeks more do second and maybe a month longer do maincrop or do I plant earlys seconds and main now
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The potato tells you when it is ready.
Our earlies have been in for some time, but the seconds are only showing 1/4" sprouts, instead of 1/2 - 1".
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Tim,
That's brilliant!
I'll do that, then cover them with cardboard.
Thanks.
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Chooks; When I kept hens I only used the droppings after storing for a year. It's hot stuff and needs time to cool off. I only ever used it for my onion beds.
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That reminds me, second earlies due to go in now
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Oh and seed pots don't carry blight, it's a fungus carried in the air
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Oh and seed pots don't carry blight, it's a fungus carried in the air
Rant warning
Merry Tiller,
You couldn't be more wrong, blight does overwinter in vegetative matter and reappears in the Spring. Aphids (particularly the peach aphid) feed on the infected haulms and spread the disease. Most outbreaks in the Uk are traced back to infected overwintered tubers.
See http://pestdata.ncsu.edu/CropProfiles/docs/OHpotato.html - they take their potatoes very seriously in Ohio - a large part of the state's income comes from potato production
Please don't save seed if there is any alternative, that's your own and that bought from a supermarket which is probably not grown in blight free areas
End of Rant
Phil
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Hi all,
Today I planted three rows of Maris Piper, not as deep as before and earthed them up a little. So for comparision, I have Charlottes planted in the valleys and Maris Piper planted under the mountains. But not in the same rows. If that makes any sense at all.
I guess they`ll be ok either way.
Col
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I like to plant my potatoes in a shallow trench, but then earth them up significantly at this stage. (see the pics below for an idea of what I mean). The potatoes certainly find their way up. In a way this mimickes how my father planted potatoes using pipes attached to a plough behind a tractor. The front part of the plough opened a trench into which potatoes were dropped down into using the pipes. Then the back of the plough covered the potatoes and earthered them up at the same time.
Thomas
(http://gallery.foxbasealpha.net/albums/allotment-2005/DSCN0099.sized.jpg)
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Don't know why, but I've always believed it best to earth up every 4" of growth.
And never cover the foliage. Anything to do with photosynthesis?
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thomasb, I do mine the same way. It's how my parents and grandparents did it, with good results - so it's good enough for me :-)
Mike
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I earth up as I see leaves, always leaving the tops showing. It seems everyone has their own way of doing things, and by the sounds of it, everyone is rather pleased with their harvests. Tomorrow I have 2 rows of King Edwards to get in. That leaves me with 2 rows of sante to try and find room for....bit of a worry really as I don't know where they will squeeze in!
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Seems to be a case of 'do what you do' or 'try what you see' and then carry on 'doing what you do' when that 'do' works for you. :)
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Pity one never has the time, room or cash to do a trial of all these techniques.
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P'raps this is the kind of trial Monty or GQT should be doing.
How do we ask them?
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Here are mine. Still loads to try and get in but I fear I am now out of room!
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EJ - can't those Daffs come out?
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Well they could Aqui, but......hmm....I had convinced myself they would stay and now you go and do that to me!!!!
To be honest, there isn't that much room between the daffs and the start of my 'squash' structure, I would probably only get one row in.....however.......mmm......I shall have a good look and think when I am down there next....
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EJ - how long are those rows (difficult to tell from the perspective)?
I was worrying that I'd overdone it with my spuds this year - 7 x 15' rows, 4 of maincrop desiree, and 1 1/2 each of salad (pink fur apple) & earlies (international kidney, plus handful of leftover desirees to be lifted as earlies).
however, counting nine rows in your pic I don't feel so bad! Was beginning to worry about the lack of space for other things down the lottie, but then I realised that the purple sprouting broccoli won't be long before it's up & out, giving me another bed to play with.
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I thought I had all my potatoes in - two rows of first earlies, two rows of second earlies and one row of maincrop. However, just popped to the local gardeners centre and bought another two rows of maincrops (Kind Eds) for £1.99. Now I am wondering what to do with my carrots and parsnips which are currently in loo and kitchen roll tubes. Does it matter if I plant these somewhere else in my rotation. I have already decided to split off my alliums and go over to a four bed rotation next year (Potatoes & Roots/Alliums/Legumes/Brassicas)
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Hi Redclanger - rotation is only there as a guide - you know a rule to be broken. It's obviously a good idea - but don't let it spoil your fun. I always wonder on just an allotmnt sized bit of ground, how much good rotation would really do in the face of some kind of virus disaster etc.
Also, some people use rotation as a solution to a particular problem that they have discovered, rather than the norm - ie some gardeners have a permanent bean bed and a permanent onion bed. Someone may shout me down,.....
sb
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Wouldn't dream of shouting you down Sarah-b . .
Rotation was invented long before we had decent fertilizers and decent pest killers (When we were really organic!). The rotation groups were much bigger than present day allotments.
It's important to manure the potatoes but not the roots, so the roots should come one or two places after the potatoes.
The long tap roots (eg parsnips) bring up minerals which have leached down.
Most leaf crops deplete the soil of nitrogen so the legumes put it back if you leave the roots in the ground.
Only time gets rid of clubroot so the brassicas need to rotate as widely as possible.
No amount of rotation stops potato blight in a really wet year.
Or aphids.
That said, my pa-in-law always dug his bean trench in the same place every year (actually, I dug it, and then my sons dug it!)
and his leek and onion beds never moved. He grew wonderful veg.