Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Jeannine on May 12, 2016, 21:21:30
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My 2 foot raised veggie beds run alongside the fence shared with the house next door and his mares tail is right up to our boundary. We had the area graveled with weed block under the gravel so no mares tail could push up, but when the beds were built and filled with lovely new soil I guess it thought it had won the lottery. It is everywhere in my raised beds. I pull it out every day and try valiantly to control it but it is very determined.
In the winter this year I shall cardboard cover all the soil then top it with black plastic but for now I need to do something.
I wondered if I laid several thicknesses of newspaper over the soil and around the plants if that would help. I could do this with my brassicas and broadies as they are a decent size but not with the smaller plants, well not yet anyway,
I have irrigation hose on the beds which I will lay on top of the paper so I don't have to worry about them going dry, but slugs may be a problem although I get very few.
Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
XX Jeannine
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i once had mares tail on my plot and like you I couldn't find a way get rid other than constant use of the hoe.
But then I noticed as I cultivated the soil over the years it gradually disappeared and I got to thinking that changing the pH had helped. That is as the soil become more alkaline the mares tail could not cope with it.
So my suggestion to you is lay a layer of lime long the base of the fence and water it in and this should alter the pH and fingers crossed this might kill or at least weaken the mares tail.
It might want a few applications
I am not sure if this will work but I think it is worth a try, sorry I don't have a more definitive answer for you....Tg
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We have a lot of it on part of our site, my plot included. I find it does get weaker the more you pull out, and it's very satisfying to get it out with a big bit of root. It's also weaker where the soil is richer.
Ammonium Sulphamate is supposed to be very good against it, and had the bonus of being considered an organic herbicide, but it's now banned over here except as a compost accelerator because the manufacturer's didn't want to do lots of additional testing on the impact on dogs, which was being requested by Ireland for the EU licence. (if my memory is right)
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I agree with Tee Gee.
On my slightly alkaline soil there is no marestail at all. We just get loads of convulvulus. Which I understand is not such a problem on acidic soils. Swings and roundabouts - there is always something to keep on top of. Trouble with convulvulus is that every tiny broken off root will produce a huge root run and new plants. Just like marestail breaks off into segments which all grow into new plants.
I am resigned to deal with it every year, preferable before it strangles plants. At least marestail does not do that and can be pulled out easier. But that is not a lot of consolation for you Jeannine. :wave:
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Gee, I can't do that as the timber of the beds is right up to the fence, I would have to lean over and do the neighbors side, not a good idea.
I am glad to hear it does go away if you keep pulling it but ut is just going under the fence and coming up in my beds.
Well I will keep pulling I guess, it is easy enough when it is about 4 inches tall, but it is a pain in the neck.
I don't use any commercial stuff in my garden other than organic all purpose dry fertilser, lime and manure.
I will have a go with the newspaper idea and see how it does. It might just decide to grow in the other direction with a bit of luck.
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I unwittingly imported a load of mares tail into my lottie which was in the last load of manure.......? Wonder if that's compounding your problem?
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Sticky buds are an absolute pain, but our dog Hugo is extremely good at collecting the seeds for us from late summer right through winter so that should reduce the population a bit, bless him - I think.
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Gee, I can't do that as the timber of the beds is right up to the fence, I would have to lean over and do the neighbors side, not a good idea
Try mixing up some lime water ( lime dissolved in water) then water in between the fence and the bed.
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Oh yes Tee Gee I could do that..how strong should I make it..It is just a narrow strip of open land next door about 3 feet then the whole area beyond that is gravel so he doesn't have anything growing in the ground apart from the mare's tail.
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I don't really know I think it will be a case of numerous applications until you see it taking effect.
As I see it if you use too much lime it will block the rose of the watering can.
You could start with say a cupful of lime to a two gallon watering can and see how it pours out.
Subject to how it does you could add or reduce the quantity of lime until you get it to pour out freely, then make further weekly applications.
But to be honest I have no idea how long it will take, because I have never done it this way as it is more normal to spread the lime on the surface of the soil and let the rain to dissolve it into the soil
If you have a pH meter take a reading before the first application then check the pH to see if it is more alkaline as that is what you are trying to achieve.
Best of luck!
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MMM... I guess I was hoping for a quick fix. I would have to be discreet so envisaged myself at midnight in my nightie pouring it over the fence, bit if I have to do it weekly . I will have to think on that one..maybe I would be better off asking him to pull it out, trouble is I think it has taken hold and he ain't gonna do it all the time, Grrh.
Thanks Tee Gee, I am a bit nervous and I guess it would show white streaks.
I will just keep pulling from my side.
I have wondered about taking one bed at a time, emptying the soil out, putting plastic at the bottom with a few drainage holes in or heavy weedblock and filling it up again. The beds are 24 inches high so it is a lot of soil. My SIL built them for me and he filled them but I am a bit reluctant to ask him to re do them. The weed would still find it's way up through the edges maybe but it would have less of a chance.
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Is your neighbour totally unapproachable? Unless he is armed and extremely dangerous, surely a little feminine guile, the odd batted eyelid, a lightly held hand and a promise of a few veggies would win through. Perhaps he might like you to "landscape" the offending area, or extract, membrane and shingle right up to the wire.
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Actually he is quite nice, a shy batchelor, we are going to see him tomorrow but he will only strim it
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The problem with lime water is that it takes ages to dissolve slaked lime and the solution holds so little anyway. Other more soluble alkaline substances like Potassium Hydroxide tend to make the soil sticky.
I'd be tempted to dig a narrow trench at the boundary and include a lot of lime in the backfill - mostly at the level where the roots enter - so much that almost nothing could grow in it for years. I think the effect of the lime would move upward very slowly into your raised beds - getting weaker as it does - you might be able to grow brassicas etc. in the 'clean' soil above it.
Or you could wait for dry weather to backfill it with quicklime in (if you can still get it?) - then you'd have the satisfaction of knowing the first lot of rain would start boiling the marestail roots to death.
Cheers.
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Changing the PH of the soil does seem to work.
Last year, by mistake, I used ammonium sulphate (which I mistakenly acquired, thinking it was ammonium sulphamate) and sprayed the marestail with that at 200g per litre concentrate.
I think it burned the marestail, all of which disappeared. I was expecting regrowth this year, thinking I had only burned the tops off, but it has not reappeared.
Ammonium sulphate contains nitrogen and sulfur and is actually good for the soil!
However, ammonium sulphamate is also good for the soil. Check it out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_sulfamate
It has got some good testimonials.
Sulphate is considerably cheaper than sulphamate.
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I have a tub with a giant mares tail plant in ...it is so beautiful and prehistoric looking :sunny: So I guess I,d better not plant it out into the garden .
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I do my 100 a day, twist and turn like Beckham, but it still comes up. Think on my allotment just have to learn to live with it. Pull/dig up one and 3 more babies come up. Plants still seem to grow well with it, think I prefer it to bindweed. Wish someone would find a use for it and I could sell it and become a millionaire (dream on). :sunny:
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My new allotment has Marestail/Horsetail & I have never had to deal with it before so I researched it on line & have found out that it is a prehistoric plant that was around when the Dinosaurs were here...back them it grew to huge heights, hundreds of feet tall so I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies, at least it doesn't get that big now. Its roots go down very very deep so digging is pointless & just spreads it as does rotovating. It totally disappears in the Autumn so people who have treated it with chemicals often think it has died but it hasn't....apparently it is extremely resistant to weed killers. When I got my plot in the new year there wasn't any sign of it but now there are loads of them. Rotovating my plot probably helped make millions of new ones!
In the Spring it puts up weird shoots that look a bit like Terrantulla Spider legs to me lol, this is how it spreads as it uses spores to propagate itself. The green leafy bit is actually feeding the root system deep below the ground. So in theory if you just keep pulling up the green shoots the roots will weaken over time.
There are loads of medicinal uses for it in herbal medicine, fascinating plant really
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I've just done a bit more research & I am going to embrace the Marestail/Horsetail on my plot & put it to good use by using the green shoots to make a fertiliser tea like I do with Comfrey & nettles. It's packed with Silica & has antifungal properties so at least it can be useful :icon_cheers:
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Thats interesting, I make nettle fertilizer, but haven't used Marestail. The nettle fertilizer seems to work on my peas, not sure what other plants I should use it on.
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Crystalmoon, makes very good sense. Whenever we have a plant with very deep roots, it will bring up minerals from the subsoil. Using marestail for fertiliser will make this available to our plants. Seems a good plan :wave:
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Learn something new every day, just looked up nettle feed and said toms and roses not too keen on it, so hopefully it is OK for peas, well they did OK last year, not sure if it was luck or the nettle feed. Hopefully a better day tomorrow and I will certain pull up marestail and put it in a bucket of water, quite excited now. Some of the stinging nettles we leave for the butterflies, insects but my allotment site is certainly not short of nettles. The Council has cut the brambles back, so don't know if there will as many blackberries this year as usual. Any clever people on here know what plants I should feed with my nettle feed, don't want to kill anything. Thanks, and the marestail feed when I have made it.
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Hi Borlotti this year I have started putting nettles into my compost bins rather than making a tea with them as I could never work out which plants actually benefit from the nettles specifically. I am growing comfrey & once the plant is more established I will use it to make teas but for a couple of years I will just add one large leaf to each spud I plant. I plan to hunt the internet to try to find out the best uses for all the natural fertiliser teas. As soon as this awful wet weather passes by I will be starting my Marestail tea.
Hi Galina yes apparently Marestail is super rich in lots of nutrients because it can access the ones much deeper than any other plant roots ever venture. I am relieved to have found a use for it & hope to discourage people on my allotment site from using the tonnes of chemicals they seem to be using to try to kill it off. As the council have let some plots become completely overgrown with it (yet there is a huge waiting list) it really is pointless using chemicals as spores from the wild plots will enable Marestail to repopulate every plot anyway.
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Hi Borlotti I just had a look in an ancient gardening book I bought at a Bootfair last weekend & it says nettle tea is great for green leafy veg so the brassica family should love it.
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Oh and Comfrey is great for tomatoes :happy7:
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Well it seems like a very good idea but if I start processing the rotten stuff after all the moaning I have done I think my family will really think my cheese has slipped off it's cracker, and anyway it feels good to chuck it and gently cuss a bit as it flies through the air to the bin.
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https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/sites/www.gardenorganic.org.uk/files/resources/fflp/A41-Making-liquid-feeds.pdf
It is really difficult to find exact nutrient information about comfrey and nettle tea. Presumably because nutrients vary quite a bit throughout the season. But in the early years of HDRA tests were done on comfrey and Bocking 14 provides more nutrients than it uses from the soil because it draws up so much from the sub-soil. Also it does not spread by seeds.
Nettles and comfrey are pretty much universally usable for everything. Anything from green will have a decent nitrogen content. Comfrey's high potash content is said to be particularly good for anything flowering, especially tomatoes, pepper and squash. The HDRA article above mentions both comfrey and nettle as a nutrient top-up and supplement to go with normally prepared soil. Especially good for fast growing and high producing veg.
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My allotment neighbour has a prolific problem with mares tail. He largely ignores it just pulling it up now and again. It has started going under the path onto my allotment and I have tried all sorts to get rid of it before it takes over as it has on other allotments on our site. This year I thought take the bull with the horns so I purchased Kurtail Gold in January when I got a small discount. It is not cheap but I have enough for many years if necessary. The mares tail for whatever reason was late developing this year I thought I had wasted my money ! Then it arrived I let it grow to full production and then sprayed it . On individual bits I used a plastic bottle with the bottom cut out and then sprayed through the top to prevent drift. Result after 10 days the stems started turning black after 15 days the whole plant was black and dead as a do do. The odd bit that has emerged I have sprayed using my bottle same result. I appreciate not everyone likes spraying but it seems to be working for me.
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Sorry but i think you have wasted your money, just cut it down and learn to live with it. I prefer it to bindwind, and plants seem to tolerate it. It has been here along time and all the methods dont seem to work, it will come back next year. Still doing my 100 a day, twist and pull, but best to make friends with it. Anyway good luck.