Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Beersmith on April 26, 2016, 22:08:49
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We are getting towards the end of April and on my allotment field, many plots are putting up frames made of canes, ready ( in a few weeks ) for runner beans.
Now some of these are novel constructions, some are A frames and some are wigwams. But it is this final group that puzzles me. I fully appreciate that wigwams make a very strong and stable structure, but I have never been a fan.
It always seems to me that when fully grown there may be anywhere between 6 and 12 beans all competing for light and space at the top in an area not much bigger than a dinner plate. Isn't this wasting sunlight? Also at the base they do not seem to have a smaller "footprint" and take up roughly as much room as an A frame. So I have always considered them an inferior approach.
But I am always open to other views so am wondering, is there something I am missing about this? Perhaps they have some merit I have not thought about. Do wigwams have some hidden advantage or should I stay true to my preferred A frames?
Cheers
Beersmith
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I find wigwams best for decorative stuff, or for seed I'm bulking up... but trying to pick beans regularly from them is a nightmare.
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Aesthetically I like the look of them on the plot, particularly when they are strung with coloured twine. But agree, I find beans too rampant for this set up, they always end up dangling over the top, peas fare better if not too tall. I like smaller wigwams for small squash, that works well!
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I grow small quantities of different varieties, so they work well for me. With each one a different variety. Also IMO wigwams don't effect things around them too much - light wise etc. where as I would struggle with a screen.
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In my wigwams, the poles do not meet at the top but are strung to be almost upright, leaning towards each other, braced by string, to avoid too much congestion. I find making a long row for climbing beans too much work - wigwams are easier, and can be put up one by one as the beans become ready to plant out.
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i use wigwams for french beans and a frame for runners and outward frame for show beans just always have smaller french beans seem to fit better in wigwams hope this helps
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Has anyone done their A frames more of a X ?
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We always do the *x* frame. Which looks something like the bottom diagram.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/jazzbyrd/th_50206b8c.jpg) (http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/jazzbyrd/?action=view¤t=50206b8c.jpg)
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We always do the *x* frame. Which looks something like the bottom diagram.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/jazzbyrd/th_50206b8c.jpg) (http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh131/jazzbyrd/?action=view¤t=50206b8c.jpg)
Be the first to do a X wigwam, ie a round bunch of "x"s, with a tightly tied waist. Use coppiced hazel poles whenever possible. Not only does this keep the hazel coppices in business, good for nature, but the rough bark offers a much better grip for your beans than shiny bamboo imported from China.
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Thanks for the responses.
Very thought provoking, and always something new to learn!
Cheers
Beersmith
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ancellsfarmer - good idea :icon_thumleft: I grow my beans in two 60cm dia. tubs, six plants on a wigwam in each tub. One is already prepared but I think I shall try an x-wigwam for the second tub which should make it easier to harvest the beans. It will probably mean tying them in initially to the upper part of the X at the waist to encourage direction of growth - but no biggie for six plants.
We shall see!
Tricia :wave:
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Wigwams for me, I can dot them around where ever I want. I find that they always grow and produce far more beans for me and the street I'm not worried about the clumping at the top. I have enough trouble getting rid of them without trying to increase the yield.
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made mine today here they are
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and this a frame wigwams next week my pics are too big to post 2 at a time so it takes two posts quite annoying really
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This is how I erect my frame:
(http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Beans-Runner/Runner%20Bean%20frame-100517.JPG)
The A frame is the old garden swing my kids had when they were little so it is quite old now considering I have teenage grandkids.
I found on my exposed plot I had to have something with a bit of strength to it, I have seen many beans frames blown away/ down over the years that were not quite up to taking the strength of the wind.
For added strength I drive a pin into the soil at the centre point between the two frames and attach two wire guys from the top of the frames and tie them to the pin.
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We use A frames for runners and climbing French but wigwams for borlotti beans.
Borlotti bean picking (for the beans that is - not for the pods) is late in the season when the foliage is starting to die down so there are no beans that are hiding really. Also, we can scatter the wigwams around where there is space.
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i grew beans up a teepee but never a wigwam. I grew tomatoes in an a fame last year.
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I love the look of a teepee, but I tend to use munty frames now along the northern edge of my plot, strung with knotted polytwine. I had squashes & tomatilloes roaming underneath last year which worked well.
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Things are very windy here, so the wigwam style seems to survive better. I have seen a number of complete rows of beans blown over and they are very difficult to get back up.
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I can see the logic of the lower x wigwams, but I'm so clumsy I'd probably take an eye out at some point......I use snail shells on the ends of my canes to avoid accidents with low canes. I have even used a rectangular cube shape of lashed together canes for climbing veg before, that worked well...
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Ancellsfarmer --- quote -- Be the first to do a X wigwam, ie a round bunch of "x"s, with a tightly tied waist.
I might just give that a go ! I have the traditional A frame up for my Runnerbeans . I have done a wigwam for some lighter french beans and a few sweetpeas , but mine always end up lopsided , nothing worse than a wonky wigwam !
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Wigwams look so much nicer but I don't think you get the best crop with them. I (I mean OH, really) do 4x4 x-frames, he braces them each side with a diagonal, and every year I determine not to let the crop get too top-heavy. Maybe this is the year I will achieve that.....
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The consensus is that wigwams are not entirely suitable for tall runnerbeans.
With climbing French beans there are two types. The 8 foot or higher rampant bean or the far more pedestrian 5-6 foot type. Unfortunately they are all lumped into one category with the term Climbing French Bean. For the 5 footers a wigwam is entirely suitable, for the tall types not so much. Unless the beans are topped when they reach to top of the wigwam. For most types this encourages side shoots with later follow-on crops. This sort of management makes it possible to grow the tallest varieties on wigwams too.
x-wigwams are a good idea, thank you :sunny:
:wave:
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What's the difference between a teepee and a wigwam
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the answer to your question can be found in this thread and someone posted pictures as well
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,70756.0.html
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That didn't help a lot ,I am more confused now.
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I think what we call a wigwam is really a teepee.
Just don't try growing them up a teegee.
On A frames, unless you are using your old iron swing, you need some diagonals to give it strength. Remember, triangles can't be pushed out of shape.
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wigwams (teepees for jeannie) are up have the full complement now A frame M frame and wigwam now all i need is warm weather to plant them out
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My that soil is sandy I think I will fetch the grandkids down with their buckets and Spades. :sunny:
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I call mine wigwams!!!!
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My that soil is sandy I think I will fetch the grandkids down with their buckets and Spades. :sunny:
your welcome anytime tg yes it warms up quick and that bed had 15 barrow loads of manure in the autumn watering via a hand pump in the summer is a nightmare
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I call mine wigwams!!!!
sorry oh well the pic helps so you all know what i mean
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I might live over in North America but trust me I am as Yorkshire as they come..ee by gum
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I believe a wigwam technically has a domed roof. Somehow we call a tepee a wigwam, but then the Indians did not grow their beans up canes they used corn plants.
So rightly or wrongly we call a triangular arrangement of canes to grow beans up a wigwam. Language evolves and over here is has evolved slightly differently.
It is so nice that computer and phone software developer had finally listened to our complaints and we can now choose English English as opposed to American English.
So on here we mostly stick to British English but cope with American English as best we can. In the meantime I am off for a fortnights holiday next week, I like to get away at least twice a year. This morning I went to the chemist, and in a while I am going to change my trousers, put on my Welly Boots and take a turn round the garden and I will pop to the loo on the way out. Then I might have a jacket potato and some fried aubergine with courgettes and follow that with a packet of crisps. And yes I am putting up my wigwams on my allotment. I might take a torch in case it gets dark.
Though for some reason we are now called United Kingdom.
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Thanks for the un-intended laugh Digeroo
When I first scanned my eye over you reply I had a vision of you putting your trousers and wellies on in the chemists then nipping to the loo.
Then you went on to say that you were going to put up your wigwam ready for you having a baked potato on your holidays.
...and that is after you writing it all out in UK English.
Then I read it again more intently and got your meaning. :drunken_smilie:...I get worse!
Have a good holiday!
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I normally used rows of beans on the A frame design but the way they took the light from the rest of the beds was difficult and that patch of bare earth underneath used to annoy the hell out of me (I can't stand to see wasted space on the allotment especially when beans are in and space is at a premium)
... so last year I tried something different. I use permanent beds with paths in-between and this time I placed two rows of upright bamboo canes either side of the path and joined them together at the top using some left over blue water plastic pipe and secured them together with wire and some structural horizontal bamboo canes which took no longer to put up than a classic A frame.
The result is that the beans lean away from the beds freeing up the light, the only totally shaded area is the path which becomes a tunnel as the beans grow ... and picking them is a doddle because they hang down over the path. I'm definitely doing it again this year.
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today started to put the wind break around my a frame to keep the young beans safe from which can be a devastating wind when they are young
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Actually Teegee I did intend a laugh. I was trying to use as many words where we use a different one.
Many thanks for reminding me of the windbreak johnny last year those with protection did so much better.
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OK bean growers, this is a first for me. I am wanting to grow 2 types of beans and I only have a fence for 1..the other has to go in a pot. I have some huge pots so I thought I would put canes in the sides where I plant the beans then gather them up at the top. Tepee maybe LOL..anyway my problem is as the pots are tapered down how do the canes stay in, I can only get them in say 6 inches before they hit the slope then when I tie them at the top they are trying to pull towards the middle at the bottom. I am getting very frustrated right now and am on the point of tossing the rotten tee pee thing, pots, canes and plants...ggrrhhh
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Looks like the perfect situation for an X frame - tie them together halfway / two thirds of the way up. You may need a cane down the middle to keep it stable as well.
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I would like, after reading this, to use an X frame for my runner beans. How far apart are the rows of canes making up the X legs ....and also how few apart are th canes in the same row?
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good choice please let me know how you get on might give it a go next season myself