Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: caroline7758 on January 10, 2015, 13:21:12
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I have always used sieved multi-purpose peat-free compost for my seeds, with vermiculite added. This year due to a bad shoulder and wanting to save time, I've bought some Levington's seed compost.
Which plants benefit most from "proper" seed compost, and would you add anything to it?
Also, is there such a thing as peat-free seed compost?
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Which plants benefit most from "proper" seed compost, and would you add anything to it?
Also, is there such a thing as peat-free seed compost?
I can't see why any seed should perform any better in what you have bought and say what you have made in the past!
After all a seed is a seed and compost is just a medium to give the seeds the right environment in which to germinate in!
You could use 100% vermiculite,perlite or even sand and they would germinate.
Then there are the gels that the boffins use for permaculture!
In regards to peat free seed compost I can't say I have heard of any you can buy but I am pretty sure ( even with your damaged shoulder) you could produce a medium from any of the products I mentioned above .
I made a start this morning and made up around 60 litres of seed compost!
OK it is peat based and was made from approx 50% MP compost I had left over from last season plus approx 50% sifted peat, again left over from last season. I added a few handfuls of silver sand to open the texture and a bit of lime to up the pH value!
I switched on my hotbed this morning and put my Chrysants stools and Dahlia tubers on it to encourage some cuttings material to form.
Then it will be all systems go!
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My compost 'recipe' is more and less same as Tee Gee's. I have bought commercial SC only couple of times and found that it either doesn't have enough drainage for my liking or 'worst case'...I bought soil based SC....far too heavy stuff for many small seeds.
I sow majority of my seed in small batches in tiny pots (little and often)...so I don't really use huge amount of SC anyway...sieving is not that big job then.
Do you use big garden sieve and do it on table?...that is shoulder breaking work. Use now one of those small plastic sieves that does only a handful or two of compost at the time and sieve my mix over shallow bowl (for to able to keep my arms as low as possible)..very light work and ingredients get mixed well together with little effort.
Have you looked into your working methods...maybe doing in some other 'position' would make the job lighter task for your joints?...can you get anybody else do the sieving for you? It is nice to just stand by and give instructions for change... :tongue3: :glasses9:
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Coir is peat free and seeds seem to germinate well in it - however it is virtually nutrient free as well so it does need liquid ferts or mixing in with something else.
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I use a top quality John Innes seed compost. Its very sandy, drains well, and just falls off the roots when I prick out.
I keep it all (I use an inside out bag to indicate "used" but the original bag's legend tells me what it is now supposed to contain!) and microwave it before using again. (If I got disease I would chuck it, and probably the container too). My biggest risk, I think, is that there is an old un-germinated seed in there that survives the microwaving - I nick a large Pyrex mixing bowl, get the compost moist (so the microwaves have something to warm up), put a large dinner plant on top and stick it in the microwave for 10 minutes on full power. It takes a couple of hours to cool down - the trick is to time it right so that Pyrex bowl can be washed up and put back in the cupboard before anyone notices that it is missing - or that the microwave smells a bit earthy!
Folk tell me that they have difficulty getting the moisture level right, after germination. Not a problem I have had, but I've been doing it for years. I water things which, when picking them up, have containers that feel "light" (in fact I don't have to pick them up, just lifting one side a smidgen tells me if it is light or not, but I doubt that ability can be acquire overnight I'm afraid). So watering of germinated seedlings in JI Seed compost might be an issue folk who are new to it will encounter. Standing the tray in water for 5 minutes, rather than watering from above, is probably better.
I used Levington's Seed once and found it packed down so dense that it stifled the seedlings' growth.
Seed compost doesn't have much feed in it, clearly mine (after reusing several times!) has none. I use a liquid feed favoured for indoor growing by Cannabis growers. I think its called "Cannagrow" or something like that.
Using it one year to grow some Cannas, funnily enough :), Mrs K remarked "How extraordinary that you can get a fertiliser specifically for Cannas" :D
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Thanks for your thoughts. I was quite surprised, when I opened the bag today, to find some quite big bits of "stuff" in the compost- I'd expected it to be very finely sieved. Anywy, I'll see how it goes. I suspect I'll go back to the MP just for cost.
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I make my own.
Equal parts coarse granite sand (I collect mine from a creek bed), premium coir, worm castings and river loam. There is no peat in it and it is fine enough not to be needing sieving. For very fine seeds I will sieve out some fines in the granite sand to cover the seeds. As someone else has said, seeds will germinate in moist pure sand too but will need feeding immediately so they don't suffer from nutrient shock...too little then too much!
I then use worm leachate with some liquid animal manure (usually chook) to feed the plants once a week until they get planted out.
I use the same mix for potting plants too.
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Great to be self sufficient! :happy7:
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Another reason why I make my own is that a few years back I noticed a lot of rubbish in my purchased bag of seed raising mix.
I use a pair of old stainless steel tweezers for individually planting small seeds in containers. I get the seeds into the palm of my hand then pick them out and place them at the right depth in the soil. Might be slow and laborious but I like it.
What I noticed was little bits of iron filings or other magnetic material sticking to the points. I checked the label of this well known brand and found that it may also contain traces of lead and other heavy metals. I checked some other brands at the hardware store to find that many have the same risk of ingredients.
So I decided I would make my own from local ingredients as much as possible rather than someone else making it from recycled waste in an industrial environment.
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I get almost any general purpose compost and use that for seeds and cuttings etc.. I use an empty pot to riddle the compost over the seeds. Not had any problems over the past years (60 plus) but then as is always said we do things in different ways. I use a brick with a frog "hollow in the top" to germinate things like primulas which want a damp soil.
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I use a brick with a frog "hollow in the top" to germinate things like primulas
I like that idea Laurie, trouble is modern bricks do not tend to have frogs anymore, most of them have holes in place of the frog.
But I still have a few old bricks kicking about and I might give that idea a go...Thanks!
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Hi Tee Gee,
I was told about it many years ago by a chap who grew many primulas, you lay the brick in a tray that holds water, put compost in frog and water with rose on can. get about an inch of water in tray and leave over night if possible. If you look across ,not down on , the surface of compost, it should not be shiny but damp. provided water remains at same level the compost will remain moist. I have done many seeds in this way.
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:drunken_smilie: frog in the brick? Please do explain what sort of bricks you are talking about? I've got loooooads of all sort of bricks in my plot but cannot work out what these may look like :icon_scratch:
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This link will reveal all godlife;
http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur09.htm (http://www.pavingexpert.com/featur09.htm)
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frog in the brick?
V-shaped grove in one face of the brick. Laid down when building a wall, laid up when sowing Primulas :)
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Laid down when building a wall, (http://Laid down when building a wall,)
Sorry kG but you are not quite right there!
What you describe is the most common way and easiest way to lay this type of brick.
But the correct way is 'frog up' simply because it adds strength to the wall.
That is when it is laid up you fully fill it when laying the bed making the wall quite solid,
Whereas when laying it down you cannot guarantee that the frog will be filled meaning the the wall is less solid.
This can sometimes be seen when you are cleaning hardened mortar off old bricks!
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I'm no builder, but we had very good quality brickies in when we built our extension and, curious, I asked them and they said that frog-up held moisture which was not good. I might have mis-remembered, I'll check with their foreman as I will see him next week.
Hope we haven't got to reerrect the extension to get a quality job!!
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I had a Google ... forum with Brickies who have laid bricks daily for 25 years were arguing black-is-white and white-is-black, so it seemed that either will do for a 2 storey building at least. They were debating whether it is easier to knock a brick down for an even mortar course, strength of the wall (concluded that for at least 2 stories it made no difference) , speed of laying. Only negative point I saw was the risk of drilling the wall, later, and hitting an air gap in a frog (laid down) which would then mean that the fixing was weaker.
They did agree that bricks with holes in bed tighter and more evenly than ones with frogs. There were various other useless comments of course, these may be worth sharing:
"Sideways" :)
"Down with the frogs" ...
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Sorry, one other thing. I now remember the foreman saying, at the outset, that it was important to lay the bricks "smiling". He's a big chap, so I wouldn't expect Feng Shui to be his bag :) so perhaps its just aesthetics. Ours are definitely smiling, which would have negated them being laid the other way up.
I'm sure we can agree that Primulas won't grow Frog Down :tongue3:
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:icon_cheers: thanks for all....it is good learn something new :icon_thumleft:
And yes, I do have these 'frog' brigs knocking about, though I've never heard using them as 'seed trays' before. I'm going to try them for sure..once my wild Primulas have new seed pods on..I'll be doing them 'fresh'.
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Sorry, one other thing. I now remember the foreman saying, at the outset, that it was important to lay the bricks "smiling". He's a big chap, so I wouldn't expect Feng Shui to be his bag :) so perhaps its just aesthetics. Ours are definitely smiling, which would have negated them being laid the other way up.
Hi kG
First of all I am not trying for 'brownie points' just trying to clarify a point that is even controversial in the trade!
First of I was an apprentice trained bricklayer which included doing the technical side of the trade at Tech College going on to get my City & Guilds and HNC (sorry you have got me bragging) :BangHead:
This is when I found out about this UP and DOWN thing as we had to do tests on materials and building techniques and this was one of the issues we had to address.
OK back to the point ;
As I said in my previous post one way is easier than the other and that google you did more or less confirmed that.
I take note of your point;was the risk of drilling the wall, later, and hitting an air gap in a frog (laid down) which would then mean that the fixing was weaker.
You would be surprised how common this situation is , particularly if you are drilling into an old style London Brick Company brick, which were like wafers, but a dawdle to lay, particularly if they were laid frog down.
So there is a lot more to it than meets the eye!
For instance did you know that the mortar should be of a lesser strength than the mortar?
This is to cater for building settlement i.e. it is better for the mortar to crack during the buildings settling period rather than the brick because you can re-point the mortar.
Why have all those old buildings that have stood the test of time not cracked like some of the more modern buildings?
The were built with lime mortar rather than cement mortar!
On that matter of lay the bricks "smiling".
I am not sure what he meant by that because local terminology for the same tasks can be quite different.
In fact the first question on all C&G exams was; What area in the UK did you take your training this was to cater for just such anomalies.
For instance I was taught that ( as we called it) Hatching and Grinning is poor workmanship.
This is difficult to describe in writing but it basically means on each successive course the edges of the bricks are not flush i.e. there is a tiny projection (lip) where the bottom of the upper course meets the course below.
This is known by me as 'grinning' could this mean 'smiling' in your neck of the woods? I don't know!
The best time to see this is when the sun shines along at an angle that creates shadows that you would otherwise not see in normal light.
It is not often a problem, and if there is a problem it is usually caused by frost!
If the bricks are relatively soft and with certain types of pointing water sits on this lip then it freezes and this expansion can cause the edge of the brick to break off!
So hopefully its you that is smiling with the quality of your extension not the bricks.
There endeth my lesson on Bricklaying. :wave:
Now lets get back to growing Primulas :happy7:
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Nothing wrong with little bit of education....all very interesting :icon_thumleft: My small sponge brain is trying to sup all the info up as it may come useful in future :drunken_smilie:
ah...primulas..... :sunny:
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:BangHead :BangHead: Oh dear what did I start , I was only trying to explain one way of sowing seeds.
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:BangHead :BangHead: Oh dear what did I start , I was only trying to explain one way of sowing seeds.
:laughing7:
I'm glad you did...it has provided me with some education, ideas and entertainment :icon_thumleft:
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Thanks, me too, it's a very interesting method Laurieuk, not one I've used before and like Goodlife will be having a go as soon as I have some seed ripe. I sometimes sow things mid summer and this seems like it could be a good way to keep seeds moist in warmer weather.
Interesting reading through, I must admit I just go with a multi- purpose compost, but good to get some more ideas. I'll have to get motivated.
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:BangHead :BangHead: Oh dear what did I start , I was only trying to explain one way of sowing seeds.
Don't worry about it Laurie its mt fault really for going on a bit!
What it was Goodlife didn't know what a 'frog' was and kGardener mentioned to lay it upside down.
And I had nothing better to so I started reminiscing, and I am afraid I went a bit over the top in my explanations.
My apologies to everyone I hope I haven't offended anybody!....Tg
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And I had nothing better to so I started reminiscing, and I am afraid I went a bit over the top in my explanations.
You absolutely didn't go over the top (well in my opinion that is). I like when people carry on and 'rattle'...it makes our posts so much more interesting and one always pick new tips or learn something new :icon_thumleft: As long as we don't start riot here, I can't see nothing wrong with it.
It would be so boring here if we don't get any conversations going...even if it is slightly off topic. Thanks for moderators for not being too picky of these thing...admittedly I always carry on and go off topic...'slap on my wrists' :glasses9:
LETS RATTLE MORE!!! :icon_cheers: