Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Paulines7 on December 26, 2014, 20:38:30
-
I am going to buy an electric propagator to use indoors to give my plants, such as chillies and tomatoes, an early start. A neighbour, who successfully grows chillies, said I should buy one that holds at least three large trays. I have just searched on line for one and am at a loss to know which one to buy. There are so many to chose from. Some of them are so expensive and I don't want to spend too much on one, certainly no more than £50.
I have seen this one that looks good value but thought I would ask your advice first.
http://www.twowests.co.uk/product/window-sill-propagator-with-14-seed-trays-and-covers
The propagator will sit in front of the windows in the utility room so doesn't need to be a window sill one.
I am also thinking of buying a lamp to give extra daylight to my seedlings. Any recommendations please?
-
those seed trays are quite small. 4" x 7"? Looks good though
-
The one you are looking at is the same make as the one I use except I paid about £15 less than the price quoted at TW&E. It is pretty useful, particularly if you want it on the window ledge, the bottom heat pad giving a nice even heat and with a little imagination you can fill it with quite a few early sowings.
I'm using it again already to get some early crops and flowering plants going, but since I also used all the small trays and lids for summer sowing too they are now scattered all over the place. I find seed pots in plastic bags just as good. I'm not always the most organized gardener. :happy7:
So all in all a flexible propagator unless you are planning hundreds of plants at once. :toothy10:
This is the first year with the grow lights and I must say I'm very impressed. A 14 watt led grow light panel and I have 16 tomato seedlings sown about 10 days ago , albeit the little potted micro kind, already showing their first true leaves. And some jalapenos already germinated after a few days. (I also have a small pentas plant flowering away like it's mid summer :sunny:) .
The lights are on for 14 hours a day and the growth so good I have ordered another one.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004PA08BC?*Version*=1&*entries*=0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004PA08BC?*Version*=1&*entries*=0)
This is the one I got but paid a couple of quid less by getting it from ebay rather than amazon.
Goodlife hinted that she uses them so may have a more comprehensive knowledge than me.
These gadgets certainly help with the itchy sowing fingers we seem to get once the shortest day is behind us. :happy7:
-
Is it the same as this one?
http://www.greenfingers.com/product.asp?dept_id=200798&pf_id=LS0284D
if so, as Ed says, you could save a bit by going elsewhere.
I bought mine from Aldi (many years ago). it was 19 pounds or thereabouts and takes 2 full sized seed trays. Still going well. Saw similar sized models at the garden centre for over 60 pounds, which was way over budget. Hope you find one you really like at an affordable price.
-
I use one of these for my seedlings and young plants...and when they get bigger, I use two bulbs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca)
Paired up with this light holder.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b) ...which you can buy little bit cheaper from Wilkos or supermarket...I paid about £2 for mine.
I start mine in propagator...no light needed at that stage...and as soon as seeds germinate they get moved into this... (blue peter style... :toothy10:) This is my 'mark one' that I did few years ago...but soon found out that all the 'fancy' extra effort with wood was unnecessary, that is now fine tuned into much more simple version...the light just clip on the edge of the storage box and that'll do just fine. The light create just enough warmth under the cardboard hood that it keeps seedlings comfy enough. You won't need to place it near windows as the light does the job for you. I've even had one lot growing under spare bed (gravel trays used there too).
So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box' under £15 and it will serve you for years! That version I use to grow things up to 8" tall and then they get too close to the light...then I get them into my home made 'grow tent' :drunken_smilie: ...that is another story... :glasses9:
Something I need to mention....I do support the light bulb as I did once had accident...placing piece of dowel across the box under the light bulb 'stem' as extra security. Some curious little animal did go to investigate what was in the box and knocked the heavy bulb (with fitting) down ....some time later I found fried up seedlings as result of that creature's nosiness..
-
Oh...and as a propagator....I have few of these sort...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stewart-Essentials-Large-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-52cm-/251747897424?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item3a9d581050 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stewart-Essentials-Large-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-52cm-/251747897424?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item3a9d581050)
....and one bigger similar to this... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Stewart-Large-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-/371149967419?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item566a43103b
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Stewart-Large-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-/371149967419?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item566a43103b)
But because I have my light systems now...I find the smaller, full seed tray size ones is enough. Most years just one will be enough as I sow in small quantities at the time and keep taking out that have germinated to make room new lot of pots. Most 'ordinary' veg don't need much heat at all and they germinate perfectly amongst the plants under the lights saving space in propagator..that's when things truly get busy...
-
See...it works...! :glasses9: :icon_cheers: :toothy10:
-
Now that's the way to do it! Lovely :happy7:
Those veg plants will be so much further forward when they are eventually let out of their box and into the bright spring sunshine meaning much earlier crops and consequently a longer cropping season.
Well done you! :icon_cheers:
-
Now that's the way to do it! Lovely :happy7:
Those veg plants will be so much further forward when they are eventually let out of their box and into the bright spring sunshine meaning much earlier crops and consequently a longer cropping season.
Well done you! :icon_cheers:
Err..yes..thank you...yes they were much forward when they were let out....those photos were taken couple of year ago. I just put them to show as evidence that the 'blue peter' way does work... :tongue3: :icon_cheers:
-
Goodlife,
I think I agree with your approach, basically keep your (cash) imputs to rock bottom.
I have been thinking upon the lines of germinating batches of seed(volume small), using raised temperature and then planting/ positioning to grow on, requiring some warmth but needing light to produce sturdy rather than spindly seedlings. Also enabling the increasing separation as the plantlets develop.
This will be a warm tray ("incubator"), thermostatically controlled and a light assisted, timer controlled ,warmed and ventillated "nursery"
box or tent
Small seeds call for fine medium, easily sterilised(microwave), whereas the growing on medium may well be "blocks"on trays(swiss roll)or standard modules 40 ,planted alternate cells or possibly Jiffy 7s
-
I arrived back today after spending Christmas with my son and when I went on line a short time ago, I was amazed to see all the replies to my post. Thank you so much for your help in this matter.
There is a lot for me to take in at the moment but your suggestions, Goodlife, regarding a light clipped on to a "Blue Peter" style box, look very good....and cheap too. I will have to think the whole thing out carefully though as my two mischievous 16 month old cats have 24 hour access to the room in question and often jump up onto the working surface. Last year I didn't start any plants off indoors but waited until late march/ early April and started them off in the greenhouse. As a consequence, none of my chilli plants got big enough to fruit.
I will go through your links again in the morning when I have a clear head. I am still undecided on the size of propagator to get but will definitely get two of those bulbs and holders that you suggested, Goodlife.
Thank you all once again for your replies.
-
My winter might not be as long and dark or cold as yours but I make use of our water heater to gather heat for my seedling raising trays.
I sit the trays on top of it during the night and they stay there during germination and cloudy/rainy days. During the day they are moved outside into fresh sunlit air. I have a plastic cloche over them to make a micro environment, trapping in warmth, keeping out cold and lifting the humidity.
This system isn't totally controllable, but is cheap and works well for me.
-
Is it the same as this one?
http://www.greenfingers.com/product.asp?dept_id=200798&pf_id=LS0284D
if so, as Ed says, you could save a bit by going elsewhere.
I bought mine from Aldi (many years ago). it was 19 pounds or thereabouts and takes 2 full sized seed trays. Still going well. Saw similar sized models at the garden centre for over 60 pounds, which was way over budget. Hope you find one you really like at an affordable price.
Galina, the one I quoted in my original post has 14 seed trays plus lids. The heater only takes 7 but once the seeds have germinated, the trays can be moved without disturbing the seedlings. I haven't looked to see where it is cheapest yet but I didn't realise how small the trays were until alkanet pointed it out.
I use one of these for my seedlings and young plants...and when they get bigger, I use two bulbs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca)
Paired up with this light holder.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b) ...which you can buy little bit cheaper from Wilkos or supermarket...I paid about £2 for mine.
Goodlife, do you need an adapter to fit the bulb into those clip on light holders as they look as though they have bayonet fittings? Alternatively, can you buy light holders with the right fittings for the bulbs. John says he wouldn't be happy using an adapter.
My winter might not be as long and dark or cold as yours but I make use of our water heater to gather heat for my seedling raising trays.
I sit the trays on top of it during the night and they stay there during germination and cloudy/rainy days. During the day they are moved outside into fresh sunlit air. I have a plastic cloche over them to make a micro environment, trapping in warmth, keeping out cold and lifting the humidity.
This system isn't totally controllable, but is cheap and works well for me.
We have an oil fired boiler for central heating and water. It has a working surface over it but it is in an area where we prepare and cook a lot of food. I have my halogen cooker, breadmaker and steamer in there and OH also makes his wine there, so it is chock a block with things. During the day it would be far too cold to have the seedlings outside. I see you are in Australia jimc where I guess your winters are a lot milder than ours.
-
Goodlife, do you need an adapter to fit the bulb into those clip on light holders as they look as though they have bayonet fittings? Alternatively, can you buy light holders with the right fittings for the bulbs. John says he wouldn't be happy using an adapter.
No I haven't needed any adapters....the bulbs are just 'normal' bayonet and the clip holders are for 'normal' bulbs.
Though I didn't check what the clip holder in the link was like for fitting...it was just to show what sort in general I have chosen.
Those bulbs are HUGE in size...but the ends are just 'normal/standard' light bulb size.
Edit to add.....AHHH....I see what you mean...just looked at the links again..I posted 'screw in' type bulb link...they do them in bayonet too...I'll dig one out for you...back in sec..
HERE WE ARE....this the one I've got... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-BC-B22-/200695971044?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eba697ce4
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-BC-B22-/200695971044?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eba697ce4)
-
Thanks Goodlife. :icon_thumleft:
-
Galina, the one I quoted in my original post has 14 seed trays plus lids. The heater only takes 7 but once the seeds have germinated, the trays can be moved without disturbing the seedlings. I haven't looked to see where it is cheapest yet but I didn't realise how small the trays were until alkanet pointed it out.
Not wishing to be pedantic, it seems a huge price hike for 7 spare seed trays, which bought on their own would be much cheaper and sourced from supermarket packaging would be free. Not difficult to make spare lids either.
However, I love goodlife's seed sowing system. Now that is elegant, the running costs are low as well as the setting up costs and (evidently :happy7: ) the results are very good too. Thankyou for showing us. :wave:
Good luck with those early sowings everybody.
-
I have two of those windowsill propagators, and 1/4 size trays + lids.
I have lots of spare trays, and a few spare lids. Once a tray has germinated (and give it a few days / opening vents a bit more each day) they come off the propagator, and a few more days and the lids are off. Its then usually a couple of weeks at least before pricking out, hence I find that somewhere between 2x and 3x the number of trays is about right. I don't think you need 2x the number of lids (although having some spares in case any break would be good, don't think I've broken any of mine as yet).
Gardman changed the shape of the trays a few years ago (so probably won't do it again soon?) and new Lids didn't fit old Trays, so perhaps worth getting more than you need?
I much prefer 1/4 size trays to full size. If I manually space the seeds out I can get about 6 across the tray and 10 rows along it, so (absolute max :) ) thus a tray will do 60 seedlings (obviously more if you broadcast small seed). I don't grow that much of anything that I can remember, so I can have one tray per variety, or perhaps 2 or 3 varieties per tray if I only have 5 or 10 seeds of something. Much easier to juggle than full sized trays IMHO.
If you are going to start super-early then propagator will provide the heat for germination, but sunlight is not enough, so to prevent plants getting drawn & leggy supplemental lighting would be needed. Better to wait a bit before sowing, until the sunlight is stronger, but then when you do start the bottom heat will give you more even, and faster, germination.
This type are not thermostatically controlled, so just provide gentle bottom heat, so may not be "sufficient" for a cold room / windowsill, let alone a could / unheated greenhouse
-
So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box'
Kitchen foil is, apparently, not a good reflector. Sounds counter intuitive to me ... but when I researched it flat-white card, or paint (not gloss) is close to as good as it gets (Mylar being best, but very expensive).
-
So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box'
Kitchen foil is, apparently, not a good reflector. Sounds counter intuitive to me ... but when I researched it flat-white card, or paint (not gloss) is close to as good as it gets (Mylar being best, but very expensive).
It certainly has worked for me...and it is to do more with preventing light escaping into surrounding room, 'keeping the light in' than thinking of reflection only. I don't know how much difference there is different surfaces...haven't done any research...but if it was good enough for old Geoff as windowsill reflector material, it certainly is good enough for me too.
Have you seen those grow tents that are commercially available for growing 'certain' crops?.. they have silver reflective material surface inside... but once you close the 'zip'...the light is and stay in for optimum effect and growth...for 'certain' kind of crops... :tongue3:
-
It certainly has worked for me...and it is to do more with preventing light escaping into surrounding room, 'keeping the light in' than thinking of reflection only. I don't know how much difference there is different surfaces...haven't done any research...but if it was good enough for old Geoff as windowsill reflector material, it certainly is good enough for me too.
You might want to do the research - see what percentage of your wattage of light is being wasted, and the effects of hot-spots. I used kitchen foil for years, and it seemed to me that it worked OK, but I've changed since reading the researched work. Other thing was that my foil reflector was "fragile" - it got caught on things, torn and so on over a couple of seasons and I was lazy to repair /replace it, and the flat-white materials that I use now are less trouble in that sense.
Might be that the amounts involved are small, but from memory of the research it was enough to be worth considering.
Have you seen those grow tents that are commercially available for growing 'certain' crops?.. they have silver reflective material surface inside... but once you close the 'zip'...the light is and stay in for optimum effect and growth...for 'certain' kind of crops... :tongue3:
For a high-value crop I would guess that the inner lining is Mylar - looks quite like aluminium-foil at a glance.
-
Hmm...talking about grow tents did get me doing some 'silvery material' research....and I'm now planning my 'mark 3' grow 'tent'... :toothy10:
I might get one of these...http://www.screwfix.com/p/radiator-reflector-foil-470mm-x-4m-1-88m/88629 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/radiator-reflector-foil-470mm-x-4m-1-88m/88629)...line a BIG cardboard box with it (which I happen to have handy for those 'what if I do....' moments)...use 3 sides of it as solid walls and leave one side open and have reflector foil to hang down as curtain for access to the plants...
...light(s) can be inserted through cut out hole on top and clipped on to the box (reinforcing might be needed for that bit).
Then just sliding a gravel tray at the bottom and HEY PRESTO!..'solid grow tent' and is easy clear away 'in one piece' when there is no need for it anymore... :icon_cheers:
Solid sides keep the plants draught free and temperature will stay even =better growth...as my spare bedroom where all winter propagation is happening is almost unheated..keeping things snug is very important.
I need 'mark 3'...as I have need for more space for plants but without having to get anymore lights..current systems do work well but they can always be improved. Storage box system is brilliant for seedlings..but it is 'next stage' that I need to rethink again.
As soon as roads here clear out bit more...I'll be heading for shops for some materials....and release my inner 'blue peter' again.. :drunken_smilie: :glasses9:
-
some 'silvery material'
Looks to me to be much like Mylar - so should be excellent especially if cheap! :)
other thing I have known used (in case you have / can find cheap) is a space-blanket - the sort of thing to wrap around people after an accident, or when stranded to prevent hypothermia.
-
Not wishing to be pedantic, it seems a huge price hike for 7 spare seed trays, which bought on their own would be much cheaper and sourced from supermarket packaging would be free. Not difficult to make spare lids either.
However, I love goodlife's seed sowing system. Now that is elegant, the running costs are low as well as the setting up costs and (evidently :happy7: ) the results are very good too. Thankyou for showing us. :wave:
Good luck with those early sowings everybody.
Galina, the extra 7 seed trays with lids cost £8. Where would I be able to buy them cheaper please? The nearest Wilko or similar is at Trowbridge about 15 miles away. I don't know what you mean when you say "sourced from supermarket packaging". What are the spare lids made of and how are they made please? They would have to be exact in size to fit in the propagator.
Goodlife's growing system is brilliant and I aim to copy her idea, but as she says, she still uses a propagator for germinating some of her seeds.
-
I think what Galina means with supermarket packaging is...that some fruit (berries) and (and supposed some foods too) have clear tray shape lids on them, which she has saved and they fit the seed trays....clear punnets?
One thing about these 'seed tray' propagators has been nagging me...I'm wondering is one restricted to use trays only on those heated bases. Supposed it is fine if one is happy to use trays only...but I like to have options...and those one cover only units have the option to use both trays and pots. Do those heated multi-seed tray bases work too hard if one want to use pots on them...leaving cooling gaps between....??
I've now progressed with my cunning plan...brain has been ticking... :drunken_smilie: I've just ordered 5 tier 'mini greenhouse'..one of cheap jobs with zip cover...spent WHOLE £13. Plan is to get some of that reflector material from screwfix...cover bottom half of shelving with it to make 'tent' (with the help of dug tape)...that's where I'm going to set the lights for plants to grow...leaving top shelf or two for propagators. I have some wood that I can clamp to frame for light fittings if in need.
Then the clear cover is optional for later on..should I need it or not is to be seen..probably not. Reason for my change of plan is that I realized my BIG cardboard box is in use already...as temporary table top under plants on windowsill... :BangHead:
I've been looking at those hydroponic tents and they are SO expensive...even just little one is more than £50..and that's in sale!
I'm sure 'my tent' will work as well ...and I don't need it to be so 'solid', little bit of air is good..after all I'm not growing anything 'tropical'.. :tongue3: If I take my time with crafting...it will look good too...
I've got some Christmas 'box' money to use, so I've made decision to use it for 'growing bits' ....OH, it is all going to be so POSH! :icon_cheers: :tongue3:
-
Re-used packaging can be a cheap and effective alternative to "gardening-made" products that are, after all, only moulded plastic in both instances.
For example the containers mushrooms are sold in, being quite deep with a good base, make excellent plant pots for top heavy plants that tend to fall over in a conventional pot. Likewise flat meat trays can be used for pricking out or to hold smaller pots/loo roll sowings together.
Clear fruit lids as mini propagator greenhouse covers or even seeded pots and small trays in a simple plastic bag. The bag can be turned inside out if condensation builds up.
For some large potted plants I simply use cheap plastic buckets from B&Q or Poundland rather than much more expensive plastic plant pots. I make holes in the buckets bottoms of course.
It may be that frugality and recycling appeals to me that gives a buzz of finding a use for something that otherwise would be discarded. Or not unnecessarily paying over the odds. :happy7:
And saving money where I can means that there is more left for even more plants and seeds. :happy7:
-
I re-use mushroom containers and other similar punnets for holding my jiffy7's. I would not be happy using them in a heated propagator though as they may catch fire or give off fumes when heated. I imagine those sold with the propagators would be more substantial and not pose a risk. I am hoping the ones that are provided with the propagator are solid and not like those flimsy seed trays that break easily and have to be discarded after one growing season.
Goodlife, for your light boxes, have you tried using the polystyrene broccoli boxes that can be found discarded at markets? I use them in the greenhouse for keeping plants safe and warm. I would think they could be used as growing boxes too.
-
As goodlife and Ed said. They are made from food grade plastic and my propagator never gets hot enough to make melting or giving off fumes a possibility. The propagators without thermostat provide about 7-8 degrees C above ambient temperature, ie the same as a warm summer's day.
The trays that came with my propagator were of good quality, but most 'proper' trays are too shallow for my liking. In the end it is all down to what we prefer to use. :wave:
-
I have one of the window sill tray propagators. Probably from two wests as it is just down the road from me :icon_cheers: been using them for years.
It is great for starting off seeds but as soon as germinated they need to be transplanted as they get leggy. Enough light cannot get through and if you take the top off the heat is lost. That said they have a role to play but if you need to have a "goodlife" set up to move onto fairly soon.
-
To answer the question about gaps - it is the top cover that keeps the heat in , gaps don't really matter. The effect of an air gap compared to opening the top vent fully, is small. As the cheaper propagators are not temperature controlled (just warmer than ambient temperature), the seeds must germinate a little slower or a little faster depending on actual conditions - warm lounge or colder back bedroom for location of propagator. But seeds do that in nature anyway. Most tomato seeds will be up in less than a week, three to four days for fresh seed. For peppers it means the difference between being easy to germinate rather than the hit and miss of room temperature germination in winter. A propagator is not warm enough to germinate peppers in a cold greenhouse without much extra insulation.
I never germinate peas or broad beans or brassica in the propagator, they don't need the heat.
:wave:
-
Thanks for the answers... :happy7:
MY 'gaps' issue were more of 'energy consumption' thing rather than having enough heat for seeds....but as usual, brain was ticking over time and I probably invented issue where there wasn't one in first place.. :drunken_smilie:
I always place something insulating...piece of 'yoga mat' or polystyrene sheet under my propagators...it is surprise how much heat 'escape' though bottom of the heaters..that's why I never use them on my cold windowsills. B***y builder didn't do proper job with windows when we had new put on..they don't let wind through the gaps but boy the sills are cold to touch in winter.
When I placed propagator on bookshelf...I was surprised to find how warm the whole shelf felt from underneath..!!! It was not supposed to keep that warm!! :BangHead:...but all of mine do it. Ever since I've use insulator underneath and none of the propagators effort is wasted to where it is not needed..I'm sure it saves with heating cost too, pennies maybe but still.. :happy7: It is pennies saved for getting few more seeds.. :icon_cheers:
Pumpkinlover...does TW&E have proper shop premises? ...I'm imaging one that is like 'hardware toffee shop' for gardeners :drunken_smilie: They've told me in past that I could go and pick up some items from them personally if I wanted to...but didn't know if it is just fetching from warehouse 'backdoor' or if they have actual shop??
-
One thing about these 'seed tray' propagators has been nagging me...I'm wondering is one restricted to use trays only on those heated bases. Supposed it is fine if one is happy to use trays only...but I like to have options...and those one cover only units have the option to use both trays and pots. Do those heated multi-seed tray bases work too hard if one want to use pots on them...leaving cooling gaps between....??
Posh propagator, with a transparent lid that covers the lot, probably works better in that regard? They seem to rock-up at £100 for a couple of square feet, and I've never wanted to spend that much - and have way too many plants for just 2 sq.ft!
In addition to a windowsill propagator, and the appropriate little trays / lids, I also have a warming mat - a big thing (2' wide and 6' long I think) which has a thermostat (which I stuff into a pot to measure actual temperature). I have a crudely shaped base and sides made from insulating board - polystyrene would do - although I don't bother to cover the top - its in the house with growing lights over it. I use that for seed that takes a long time to grow, and seedlings / cuttings that benefit from bottom heat [in greenhouse during Summer / Autumn], but I have never grown vegetables that are stubborn to germinate! so it has only ever been used for Ornamentals.
I've been looking at those hydroponic tents and they are SO expensive...even just little one is more than £50..and that's in sale!
Price might be because of the need for fittings for cooling / carbon filters to get rid of the smell?! :nono:
I never use them on my cold windowsills. B***y builder didn't do proper job with windows when we had new put on..they don't let wind through the gaps but boy the sills are cold to touch in winter.
Hadn't really thought about it before, but I reckon that any windowsill propagator could benefit from not wasting heat "downwards" so worth standing on insulating board / polystyrene perhaps?
Edit: Sorry, you already said that :)
-
Posh propagator, with a transparent lid that covers the lot, probably works better in that regard? They seem to rock-up at £100 for a couple of square feet, and I've never wanted to spend that much - and have way too many plants for just 2 sq.ft!
Oh yes..those with adjustable thermostats are expensive....I would love to have those..vitopod, something to dream of.. :drunken_smilie:
Mine is large with single lid..though without heat adjustment and one can buy them around at cheapest just under £40...not too bad.
I've been looking at thermostat that could be added to mine as 'upgrade'...but they only cost over £50!!! AGGGH!
Oh well..why to bother if the old system does work...it is lot of money for convenience.
-
I made a huge propagator once for bringing on my show plants. Passing a building site I noticed them putting some thick sheets of insulating board in the skip. The stuff that is like thick expanded foam coated in silver foil. I grabbed a load and built an 8'X 4' propagator about 18" high. Got a heat mat and lined the bottom covered in a sharp sand/softsand mix, this was just thick enough to keep damp. the plant trays lay on top.
A hinged frame top covered in bubblewrap with a strip light kept the warmth in without overheating. It worked a treat and seeds seemed to pop up the next day. I only sprayed with warm water with a bit of Bordeaux mixture to stop damping down. It would start seeds off at anytime of the year, which was exactly what I needed for flowering plants out of season. But see no reason it would not work for veggies to get them earlier and a bigger germination percentage.
-
Goodlife- Two Wests are in a factory unit. Very industrial not set up as a shop but they will let you look at stuff but not wander about. Most people are picking up orders to save postage. They make the plunge beds there and some other items .
PM sent :wave:
Back to the original post and question about using pots. I have done this but I think that the shallow well fitting trays which come with the window will propagator are needed to get the warmth to the seeds.
-
I know that I'll be doing quite a number 'flower' cuttings this coming year.....and is good to have all these ideas around of how to 'make ends meet'.
Even in the smaller propagators one can produce huge number of seedlings and cuttings, it is all about timing and keeping the production line going.
My biggest problem has always been, how keep new/young plants going when 'propagation/lighted' area is getting full and unheated GH is still too cold for the 'over spill', particularly if the weather should stay cold until late. I don't have electricity in allotments so in past I've either played very inventive game with candles and clay pots...or bought paraffin to fill heaters, but that is not now a option, paraffin heating is too expensive for long term...I don't get money back for it from clients, one can only charge so much.
-
Goodlife- Two Wests are in a factory unit. Very industrial not set up as a shop but they will let you look at stuff but not wander about. Most people are picking up orders to save postage. They make the plunge beds there and some other items .
Ah...just as I thought....I was already dreaming of a fancy shop.. :drunken_smilie: We've got small such a unit in our town..they make GH components and such a stuff ...sold in many garden centres. I one spotted them selling stuff on line..found out where they were and fetch it locally saving postage....and now I know where they are, they don't mind if one goes knocking on their door buying from straight from them....much cheaper than in garden centres.. :happy7:
But it is good to know more of 'local' shopping options.. :angel11:
-
I've been looking at thermostat that could be added to mine as 'upgrade'...but they only cost over £50!!! AGGGH!
The £50-ish ones should be highly accurate - probably control the heat to within 0.5C, even though they won't be rated to promise to do that. I don't suppose it makes much cost saving for a propagator, particularly in a house, but for a fan heater in a greenhouse controlling the temperature that accurately can save £50 in a single season - unless it is as mild as last year when a heater wouldn't have even been needed!
If looking for an excuse??!! then cheapo thermostats are likely to have a hysteresis (between ON and OFF) of several degrees, maybe even as much as 10C, which is either wastefully overheating the propagator, or allowing it to fall to temperatures which will kill plants.
I have a high quality thermostat for the fan heater in my (cold) conservatory, which I use for overspill in Spring as it is well insulated and doesn't need much heat to maintain 10C, and a logging thermometer shows that the temperature only swings 0.5C during the heating cycles.
-
RIGHT......I've done it!!! :headbang:
The 'frame, 2 rolls of radiator reflector foil, dug tape, few cable ties and length of wood from shed...total cost £28 :glasses9:
I made cardboard door and the bent top bit is used as 'hinge'.
I can put propagator on the top and then move the young plants/seedlings under light into my 'posh' light cabinet.. :toothy10:
I didn't really need to put the reflector on shelves, but I used the roll up..unfortunately one roll was just door short of foil.
Plan is to clip lights on the wooden bit..place gravel trays on both shelves...on top I'll be putting some polystyrene sheeting under propagator.
I'm ready for :coffee2: now... :angel11: We'll see how my 'mark 3' is going to perform.....very soon.... :toothy10:
...oh, and hubby commented that I'm probably going to set house in fire....or attract police helicopter hovering over house.. :tongue3:
-
You are the Mistress of inventiveness :wave:
-
You are the Mistress of inventiveness :wave:
:whip2:..... :toothy5:...
...oh, 'inventiveness', oh well.. :angel4: ... :thumbsup:
-
Looks very good, goodlife :wave:
-
Never thought of wasted heat via bottom of propagator. In the absence of polystyrene - becaused I chucked it all in the bin - I wonder if old clothes would do the job. I used old woollen jumpers in the bottom of trays to keep it damp for the plant pots standing in it once.
-
Well done Goodlife. :icon_cheers: A real professional job there. Please keep us posted on how it performs. :icon_thumright:
-
Never thought of wasted heat via bottom of propagator. In the absence of polystyrene - becaused I chucked it all in the bin - I wonder if old clothes would do the job. I used old woollen jumpers in the bottom of trays to keep it damp for the plant pots standing in it once.
I'm sure old woollies would help, though if you can felt a jumper it is excellent stuff...bubble wrap would do too.
-
Goodlife, I assume your new growing unit does not have any natural daylight. Will your grow lights be on for 24 hours? Don't get those old woollies near your lamps though as they may well catch fire.
-
Goodlife, I assume your new growing unit does not have any natural daylight. Will your grow lights be on for 24 hours? Don't get those old woollies near your lamps though as they may well catch fire.
No, I don't 'do' natural light at all with lights..not saying you can't, but I find it just interfere with light direction and bulb is sufficient enough for good growth at young growth stage. And..when growing inside a unit....temperature doesn't fluctuate neither other than normal day/night difference...those energy saving bulbs provide just enough warmth.
Oh no...no woollies for my plants/lights...I'll save them for myself.
I've just finished my unit...all cables and bulbs are in place...propagator washed and placed on top, ready for action. My plan with gravel trays didn't quite work out as I was thinking because none of the commercial ones fit snuggly on those shelves, they are 'funny size'.. all commercial trays either too small, leaving wasted shelf space...or too big.. :BangHead: I spent hours online yesterday searching all manner of trays and containers that I could use...but found only 2!!!..one is 'jumbo' cat litter tray, but they are in Germany and would cost too much to post from there and other was catering serving tray...not too bad cost wise but I wasn't still prepared to spend that much.
After doing some more 'hard' thinking... :icon_scratch: ...I had :idea1: , yet another blue peter moment.. :laughing7:
Fetched few more 'supply's'...and cut the cardboard box half that the shelving was packed in.. and turned the two halves into trays...with help from heavy duty rubble sacks and various rolls of tape that I already had handy. :icon_cheers:
Lights are on timer for 14 hrs per day (or so)..I'll adjust should the plants need it ,but that is good starting point.
I'll just have to get some seed compost mixed and bring it in to warm up :icon_cheers:
Edit to add.....with 'interfere' I mean...it is because how our windows are orientated and the rooms are dark..young plants tend to stretch too much towards natural light...
-
That's a great set up you have there, goodlife, you should be able to fit quite a lot in growing everything to a good healthy size quickly.
I also think 14 hours light is about the right amount. After all plants like tomato/pepper/aubergine etc. come from closer to the equator than here so would never experience the long day lengths we get in summer. 14 hours is about mid april/mid august days - around the time you plant out under cover or harvest tomatoes respectively.
My set up isn't as organized as yours but it seems to be doing the trick. :happy7:
Roll on spring. :icon_cheers:
-
Thanks for your reply, Goodlife. I had no idea how much light the plants would need.
I still haven't decided on a propagator yet. It is a toss up between the one from Two West and Elliotts that comes with 14 quarter sized trays (almost £50 with postage) or a Stewart 52cm propagator from Amazon that, according to the reviews, has a flimsy lid and will cost about £25 including postage. I am waiting to see what type my friend has but she has had this virus that is doing the rounds so I haven't been able to go and look at hers yet,
-
Thanks for your reply, Goodlife. I had no idea how much light the plants would need.
I still haven't decided on a propagator yet. It is a toss up between the one from Two West and Elliotts that comes with 14 quarter sized trays (almost £50 with postage) or a Stewart 52cm propagator from Amazon that, according to the reviews, has a flimsy lid and will cost about £25 including postage. I am waiting to see what type my friend has but she has had this virus that is doing the rounds so I haven't been able to go and look at hers yet,
Hmm..flimsy lid? I would be surprised about that. Usually they all have as solid lids as they come. I have similar size one to the Stewart one..but mine is Sankey and they have solid lids.
Oh, just though of something.... I wonder.....some of these 'propagators' come as unheated...and those have flimsy lids...there must
been some sort of mix up.
If you have Wilko nearby...keep eye on their gardening stuff....if I remember right, you can buy from them heated Stewart propagators...you could go and inspect..though I'm not sure how much they are there to compare...you can check their goods and prices online and have delivery into shop for free...
-
Goodlife, have a look at the reviews for the Stewart propagator; a lot of them mention a flimsy lid. The lids are solid but when the word flimsy is used, it means that it is easily damaged, fragile, breakable, insubstantial.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stewart-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Propagator/dp/B008H1J45Q/ref=pd_cp_lp_2#customerReviews
The Stewart propagator is heated and is 22 watts. The nearest Wilko is at least a 30 mile round trip from here, but they sell the Stewart ones at my local garden centre so I am going to have a look at them today.
-
Goodlife, have a look at the reviews for the Stewart propagator; a lot of them mention a flimsy lid. The lids are solid but when the word flimsy is used, it means that it is easily damaged, fragile, breakable, insubstantial.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stewart-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Propagator/dp/B008H1J45Q/ref=pd_cp_lp_2#customerReviews
The Stewart propagator is heated and is 22 watts. The nearest Wilko is at least a 30 mile round trip from here, but they sell the Stewart ones at my local garden centre so I am going to have a look at them today.
I had look at your link and yes, they do mention about the lids...and that manufacture do have the 'replacement' lids that are stronger!!?? I'm surprised about those comments....I just wonder if there has been some manufacturing error in past with some batch...and they've rather waited people to complain than just change before sale...or something....???
-
Goodlife, have a look at the reviews for the Stewart propagator; a lot of them mention a flimsy lid. The lids are solid but when the word flimsy is used, it means that it is easily damaged, fragile, breakable, insubstantial.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stewart-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Propagator/dp/B008H1J45Q/ref=pd_cp_lp_2#customerReviews
The Stewart propagator is heated and is 22 watts. The nearest Wilko is at least a 30 mile round trip from here, but they sell the Stewart ones at my local garden centre so I am going to have a look at them today.
I just looked Steward website...and they have 'premium' and 'essential' range with their propagators...and replacement lids for those ranges too...and that would explain the lid difference. I bet you have to buy 'premium variable propagator' to get it with strong lid...and 'essential variable propagator' would be with 'economy' lids.
Mine is older model of this..http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sankey-52-Premier-Growarm-300/dp/B0001NXHII/ref=pd_sim_sbs_lp_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RR5DGNYY3S3F49HEXWM and they are as robust as they come...I have couple small ones that are 15+ years old and still working just as they did as they were new.
The small propagator on my last photo is Sankey...few years old model and I have same in larger size too....AND...they are made here in Nottinghamshire...all with robust 'solid' lids!
I believe this one is Steward's propagator with 'rigid' lid... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stewart-Thermostatic-Control-Electric-Propagator/dp/B006ZNCOVE/ref=pd_cp_lp_0
Personally...I don't see that much problems with more 'flimsier' lids...as long as they sit against the propagator well and don't leak much heat out..
-
Cracking job :) I have a couple of multi-tier blowaways, which I used to put in the Conservatory in the Spring with an incandescent bulb in the bottom as a heater! Haven't used them in a while, and don't use incandescent bulbs any more either ... I could convert them to a growaway :D
Laterly I have been using a small tunnel in the conservatory in the spring instead, with a metal halide lamp strung from the ridge; that's 400W and plenty enough heat to keep inside at 10C+ in Spring.
Goodlife, I assume your new growing unit does not have any natural daylight
No, I don't 'do' natural light at all with lights..not saying you can't, but I find it just interfere with light direction and bulb is sufficient enough for good growth at young growth stage
For anyone using a multi-tube lighting rig I think the shade it casts, and the fact that it needs to be close to the plants, means that no natural light would reach the plants (unless the rig was removed during the day).
When I use a metal halide lamp, in the Conservatory rather than my Home Office, I do use natural light. The lamp is a good two feet above the plants and only the size of bulb + reflector, and I run it on a timer to come on at night. More need for extra heat at that time, and we have economy-7 so electricity cheaper at night, and the plants get whatever daylight is available as well. Timer on midnight-7am, so they get some night-hours as well.
I don't know how many hours light they need / would benefit from - or perhaps more correctly the minimum time of darkness, if any?, that they need. Otherwise I presume it makes sense to provide the maximum extra-light-hours for fastest plant development. Strikes me that you need two, or more, rigs side by side for a controlled experiment, eh?!!
I grew some Cannas from seed one year. Seeds sown in late September, grown under Metal Halide at 16 hours per day (I had no idea how much light they needed), they were 5' tall and flowering by XMAS !! so clearly they made good use of the light / hours.
-
I don't know how many hours light they need / would benefit from - or perhaps more correctly the minimum time of darkness, if any?, that they need. Otherwise I presume it makes sense to provide the maximum extra-light-hours for fastest plant development. Strikes me that you need two, or more, rigs side by side for a controlled experiment, eh?!!
It all depends what kind of plants you are growing and how you want to develop the growth/what stage of development they are.
I know from my previous 'tent' versions that one of these light bulb will be enough of each shelving are (50x40 cm) and I've covered even larger area but then I used mirrors as reflector.
But as I only need the lights for chillies/peppers/toms and some cuttings one of those 'blue' bulbs is sufficient until they grow too large/start forming flower buds.
I do have additional 'red' bulb that will support flowering/fruiting stage but haven't used it as all my plants go outside/in GH for summer. Personally what I'm looking is not the 'fastest' development but that the plants are and looking healthy.
Experiments are always fun.. :icon_cheers:..and indeed would be great to be able to do so...but often it is enough when one knows what time of the year plants are happy growing in natural light in UK...it is easy to give roughly (or touch more) the same light conditions. Any more 'tropical' plant types, or those that originate from 'hot' countries...one just have try and mimic what they are receiving over there. Good thing is that most plants are quite adaptable... :icon_cheers:
-
I just looked Steward website...and they have 'premium' and 'essential' range with their propagators...and replacement lids for those ranges too...and that would explain the lid difference. I bet you have to buy 'premium variable propagator' to get it with strong lid...and 'essential variable propagator' would be with 'economy' lids.
Spot on Goodlife, we found that out today. There were three different types of 52cm Stewart propagators that they sold in our local garden centre. There were the Essentials with flimsy lids, but there were none of that size in stock and the Premiums models with strong lids were reduced from £49.99 to £34.99. They also had another Premium model with a variable temperature control for a temperature between 12 and 28 degrees celsius. This top of the range model was £64.99. However, we decided to look in at another garden centre that was nearby. They had a 52cm Premium model propagator on offer for £27.50. The box was faded and damaged but everything was intact inside. all right, it doesn't have the variable temperature control but I didn't want to spend an extra £37.49 just to get one that had it.
-
:icon_cheers: result...and for good price too! :icon_thumleft: ...who cares about the cardboard box.
You've done good shopping there.
-
Personally what I'm looking is not the 'fastest' development but that the plants are and looking healthy.
Yup, "fastest" probably not the right choice of word on my part. If I am starting plants early under lights I want to give the maximum light that they can benefit from, so they have the greatest possible development from that early start. If I'm only going to be harvesting tomatoes, say, a week earlier than if I sowed them in March then I'd prefer not to bother :)
Conversely, I might sow later, with the maximum possible light, to get a plant of "right size and vigour" at planting out time. Might help me use the precious light-rig growing space more effectively.
My main problem this year is that I've moved home office to a different room and its too small for a lighting rig. Only room readily available is the boiler room, and that is swelteringly hot ... maybe that will be a benefit, I'll find out soon!
-
My main problem this year is that I've moved home office to a different room and its too small for a lighting rig. Only room readily available is the boiler room, and that is swelteringly hot ... maybe that will be a benefit, I'll find out soon!
:icon_cheers:.... :laughing7:......... :icon_thumleft:
Boiler room!...now that brings me some memories... Well, you won't need propagator there..you are sorted with that 'department'.
I never thought using work's boiler room for plant propagation...(I wish I would have)...but amongst other odd places to cut somebody's hair..I've done it in boiler room.. :icon_cheers: :toothy5:
If you are allowed to put light in boiler room....you could grow all manner of crops there... :tongue3:...first things that entered my mind for such a place...aubergines and pineapples they like good warmth.. :angel11:
-
Our boiler is a log burner, so my biggest issue with it is the dust from the ash (cleaning out the boiler), so will be interesting to see if that upsets the plants, or I have to spend time cleaning their leaves. But no problem with heat that's for sure!
-
Goodlife, having bought my propagator I am now looking to make a grow box. You said you had your lamp bulbs in clamp on holders. Is this so you can move the light up or down? John says he already has some lamp holders but they screw into wood. Do you think they will be all right assuming we buy the grow bulbs with end fittings that match?
-
Goodlife, having bought my propagator I am now looking to make a grow box. You said you had your lamp bulbs in clamp on holders. Is this so you can move the light up or down? John says he already has some lamp holders but they screw into wood. Do you think they will be all right assuming we buy the grow bulbs with end fittings that match?
Yes, I did get clip light holders because it is very easy way to adjust the lights...but there is no reason why you could not use fixed ones ..you could use small piece of wood for the fitting and clamping it for another piece that is acting as support.. for chance of adjusting the height? Or maybe John is handy making something better? I tend to always go for 'low effort' option.
If you look at 'professional/commercial' grow light units/systems...they are often hanging from chain(s) for the adjustment....opportunity for adjustment being very important! As the plants grow taller..you have to be able to maintain right distance for maximum effect from the light but without scorching the plants.
Because the bulbs are so large...most practical way of assembling them is keeping them horizontal or you will need quite amount of spare room and then you will start 'wasting' the light to surrounding space...I keep about 8-10" gap between bulb and the plants (..or so). You will either need using the bulb in reflective space and/or using light reflector(shade) above the bulb to direct most of the light to the plants. My home made foil and cardboard shade did work just fine, though for sake of safety you will need few inches distance from bulb to the cardboard.
All my different 'system versions have been working for me just fine and I've used what ever 'stuff' I have already available or easy to get hold of...and I don't want to make huge effort building anything too fancy. There is all manner of DIY settings that can be done to achieve same/better results...it just down your/John's efforts and skill.....GO FOR IT! :icon_thumleft:
If you are not sure...keep dropping questions....I'm sure we can come up with answers to work things out.
OH...something I've meant to mention of my 'cabinet'...I didn't make my door too flush for ventilation. Even the bulbs don't produce that much heat...but it is still good to have plenty of 'fresh' air coming in. Commercially made units all have either open sides or adjustable vents. I decided to make the door slightly too 'short'...there is couple of inches gap at the bottom and neither the door shut that properly, so it will allow some air movement but only a little light is escaping to the room.
-
Thank you so much Goodlife, you have been very helpful and I very much appreciate it.
With the information you have given, I am sure John will fix up something suitable for me. He has already been out to the shed to find trays to start my plants in as I have not been very well, having had a tummy upset on Sunday evening. I spent most of yesterday in bed and felt much better when I got up. Hopefully, I now have nipped it in the bud.
-
An update about an unexpected benefit of using grow lights for early sowings is that I have so far had zero damping off of seedlings. :icon_cheers:
The propagator is already full of germinating seeds, both veg and ornamental plants, but once they begin showing they are under the lights 14 hours per day so much so there are two panel lights suspended over so many pots of seedlings all huddled together. :happy7:
Now some are getting past the damping off "danger period" (i.e. getting drawn and weak due to lack of light). I will soon begin to move them onto window ledges or the hardier candidates out into the frost free greenhouse now the days are getting noticeably longer. :icon_cheers:
Grow lights are a real boon helping to pay for themselves already. :happy7:
-
I grow quite a lot under lights, but there is very little that I start off early. One issue is that it becomes a problem finding lighted space for plants as they get larger, the other is that they come ready for planting out long before the outside is ready for them - partly that's my heavy clay soil, which I cannot get on early in the Spring - baring a winter drought, even if it didn't rain for the rest of this winter it would still be too wet to work come Spring!!
I find lights particularly useful for small seed seedlings - like Petunias, Lobelias and Coleus - which take ages to get going - and bringing forwards seedlings of ornamental plants that might not flower in the first season - such as Cannas.
-
I don't do that many sort veg under lights neither...mainly chillies, peppers and toms and maybe odd other thing.
At the moment my over wintering fuchias have come to early growth..its been relatively warm where they are. I'm going to take few some cuttings from them.
First lot of chillies have just germinated and they've been moved from propagator to my new light cabinet :happy7:
I've got soil thermometer there and soil temp is 20'C (with lights on) ..which is just perfect for good growth :toothy10:
Now I just have to wait if the one light bulb per shelf is enough as there is no extra reflector above them for all surfaces being reflective...it should be fine, there is not that much difference to older versions, but one doesn't never truly know until it is all tested and trialled in action.
I might get some few early herbs going to...little cut crops, not for longer term growing. I've seem to accumulate so many seeds so it is good to put them in use when there is not that many fresh things going otherwise....seedlings are small too so plenty of space to make use of all the 'spare' light.
I'm almost tempted to pop few micro tom seed to germinate too...just for fun.. :toothy10:
Ed dibbles....good to hear your growing is going well. I've noticed lack of damping off too...must be because the lights will dry humidity levels. Though once the plants get bigger and competition for the space get going...that's when I get more careful with watering and avoid 'splashing' around..it is like asking for trouble.
-
I have my new propagator switched on and have chillies and peppers sown in small modules. I was expecting them to germinate a lot quicker than they would without heat, but they have been in the propagator for almost a week now and show no signs of life.
I normally start my seeds off on damp kitchen roll, placed in plastic bags and then put in the airing cupboard. They normally then germinate within a few days.
I haven't started my tomatoes or aubergines yet so will try the airing cupboard trick with those as I haven't any room for them in the propagator. Once the seeds have germinated, I can put them in an unheated tray with a glass lid.
My grow lights and holders have arrived but I haven't made a light cabinet yet. A job for the next few days I think. I have three of those 4 tier mini greenhouses but don't know what sort of condition they are in. They could be a bit rusty and I don't want to ruin the floor by bringing one into my utility room.
-
Chillies and peppers rarely germinate quicker than a week for me..but I always do them in compost so they will take that bit longer to push through. Germination time for those 2 can take up to 2 weeks though.
If you haven't used propagator before, it might take a bit to adjust your methods for best germination....just hold on...early days yet, just be careful with watering...not too wet/dry and it will be just fine.
-
Peppers are always the slowest thing for me (using a Very Old heated propagator, no fancy controls or anything), in fact most years I panic and sow a second batch, so ending up with far too many! Even parsley comes up quicker. I'd try some toms just to check, I reckon on about 4 days for them.....
-
Peppers are always the slowest thing for me (using a Very Old heated propagator, no fancy controls or anything), in fact most years I panic and sow a second batch, so ending up with far too many! Even parsley comes up quicker. I'd try some toms just to check, I reckon on about 4 days for them.....
Lol... somebody is just sitting on front computer writing new labels for new batch of chillies to be sown again. Its been only just over week when last lot was sown and I have 2 varieties that haven't shown any signs of germinations yet...others are already 'up and running'. I'm impatient too... :glasses9:
-
Some of my chillies have germinated now. :icon_cheers:
John brought part of the mini greenhouse indoors and we have put it on the working surface in the utility room. We hope to attach some cardboard lined with tinfoil all around it. Four large trays, 52cm x 52cm fit snugly inside, two on each tier. Do you think each 45W Blue 6400k Red 2700k CFL grow lamp bulb will give enough light for an area 1.04m x 52cm or should I just make one shelf into a grow box and have both bulbs in it?
One further question please. Should the perspex lids that cover my trays be taken off when the plants are put in the light box? The reason I ask this is that there will not be a lot of room between the tops of the lids and the shelf above and the grow lamps may end up almost touching the perspect. I imagine too that if the lids are kept on, it could get too hot for the seedlings.
Goodlife, have you any plants in your grow box yet? If so, how is it performing? Any more photos please?
-
The clear plastic lids will absorb some light, so I would take them off. The soil will dry out more quickly though, so something to be alert for.
Apparently flat white card reflected better than kitchen foil (which can also cause hotspots). Might not be suitable for a reflector above, i.e. reflecting downwards, as heat will rise - dunno if there is enough heat (from a CFL Lamp) to actually warm the reflector though?
CFL type lamps needs to be as close as possible to the plants (without burning them), typically that will be an inch or two.
-
Some of my chillies have germinated now. :icon_cheers:
John brought part of the mini greenhouse indoors and we have put it on the working surface in the utility room. We hope to attach some cardboard lined with tinfoil all around it. Four large trays, 52cm x 52cm fit snugly inside, two on each tier. Do you think each 45W Blue 6400k Red 2700k CFL grow lamp bulb will give enough light for an area 1.04m x 52cm or should I just make one shelf into a grow box and have both bulbs in it?
One further question please. Should the perspex lids that cover my trays be taken off when the plants are put in the light box? The reason I ask this is that there will not be a lot of room between the tops of the lids and the shelf above and the grow lamps may end up almost touching the perspect. I imagine too that if the lids are kept on, it could get too hot for the seedlings.
Goodlife, have you any plants in your grow box yet? If so, how is it performing? Any more photos please?
:icon_cheers:...for germination :toothy10:
One bulb should be enough for that area coverage...though you won't need red bulb at this stage as that colour spectrum is for flowering/fruiting stage. The blue spectrum is for green growth.
Take the lids off..they will just cut the light levels down and temperature and moisture levels under the lids could become bit too much to bare ...and the 'fresh air is good for the seedlings.
I have only few little bits and bobs under lights..so far....and I just took a photo to show the progress (just for you!)...but there is more 'cooking' in propagator :icon_cheers:
-
Goodlife, thank you for your replies.
I have just realised that the two bulbs I bought include one blue and one red. I didn't notice that they were different and thought they were both blue when I sent off for them. I have decided it will be too expensive to send the red one back so I will keep it in case I need it. Who knows, it may even get my orchid flowering again! I will now order another blue one.
Thank you for submitting a photo of your plants in their growbox. What are those things in the foreground? At first I thought they looked like potatoes but now think they are more like pears. They aren't avocado stones are they?
I am very confused because your post on 5th January says "I keep about 8-10" gap between bulb and the plants (..or so)." In a post today you said "CFL type lamps needs to be as close as possible to the plants (without burning them), typically that will be an inch or two."
I am pleased I won't need the lids on my trays as they do take up a lot of room. I will try to find some white cardboard to surround my growbox or failing that, I will apply some emulsion paint to ordinary cardboard. I am now wondering if white polystyrene vegetable boxes could be used instead of cardboard as I have some spare. I pick them up when Wilton market is on. It may be a case of experimenting.
Thanks again for your help Goodlife. This really is all new to me but at the end of the day I am hoping that my plants will be better developed and that my chillies actually fruit this year.
-
I am very confused because your post on 5th January says "I keep about 8-10" gap between bulb and the plants (..or so)." In a post today you said "CFL type lamps needs to be as close as possible to the plants (without burning them), typically that will be an inch or two."
It was kGarden who quoted the last bit of advise about CFL type lamps. At the moment my lamp is 6" off from the top of the little pots, 5" clearing from the seedlings...it is slightly closer that I would normally do, it is because there is still some seeds in compost that are not germinated yet and some that are slow to fully emerge, so I'm trying to keep the bulb as close as possible for maximum 'heat'. I have to say that I'm not totally comfortable keeping it so close otherwise. But another day or two and all seedlings should have then straightened up and then I lift the bulb little bit higher.
I've had bulb as close as 'inch or two' and can say it haven't been success in my case...ended up with very unhappy seedlings, it was too close in my set up system.
My bulbs are 45W..and I find the 10" distance from the plant tops adequate for their needs..though I find that when in seedling stage, little bit closer is advantage. But we all have our own ways of doing things, I just go by how the plants look like and adjust as they grow on.
I found reference for 125W bulbs ..."For cuttings & seedlings, we'd recommend having your CFL 80cm away from the top of the propagator, for larger plants, the CFL should be 60cm away." ....and that is with reflective hood above the bulbs.
What are those things in the foreground?
Those are sweet potato tubers...both rooted and showing first little sprouts. I've had them couple of days out of propagator...but they don't look quite as 'happy' being underlights as yet and I have put them back into propagator. I think they just need the combination of heat and moisture bit longer.
I am pleased I won't need the lids on my trays as they do take up a lot of room. I will try to find some white cardboard to surround my growbox or failing that, I will apply some emulsion paint to ordinary cardboard. I am now wondering if white polystyrene vegetable boxes could be used instead of cardboard as I have some spare. I pick them up when Wilton market is on. It may be a case of experimenting.
Polystyrene sounds good stuff, it is able to keep warmth in and temperature even...though I'm not familiar what size those type boxes are....should the plants out grow them...there is always ways to elevate the lights higher.
OH YES....experiment and learn from it...that is best way to get your DIY system working for you. There is no need to be worried about it, even if the plants don't look their best at first, they will soon respond to any changes you make..showing you when you get it right :icon_thumleft: 'Listen' what they tell you and you won't go far wrong.
I keep putting my nose close them several times a day...and will notice all the subtle differences in them when I do adjust something.. :toothy10: :sunny:
-
It was kGarden who quoted the last bit of advice about CFL type lamps.
Oops, that was silly of me to miss that, Goodlife! I probably replied using my small laptop as when I enlarge the posts to read them, the poster is off the page. I probably just assumed it was from you as you have been so helpful replying to all my numerous queries.
The polystyrene boxes come mainly in two sizes. The broccoli boxes are much deeper and smaller than the other ones, but both have their uses. I prefer the deeper ones as they can be filled with cuttings compost and are therefore more suitable for rose or other plant cuttings that need to go deeper into the compost. I pick up the lids to them too as they are handy for breaking up and putting in the bottom of large tubs to save using too much compost. I am then able to move the pots around more easily. I usually move my tubs of bedding plants to a shady area near a water tap when I go on holiday. The lighter they are to move, the better for my back! It is the lids though that I am hoping to use to make up the grow box.
Thank you for taking and posting a photo. It gives me an idea of how big your grow box is.
Good luck with your sweet potatoes.
-
"CFL type lamps needs to be as close as possible to the plants (without burning them), typically that will be an inch or two."
The "power" of light reduces with distance according to the "inverse square law", which means if you double the distance you only get a quarter of the light power.
So increase from 2" to 4" and reduce by a quarter, further increase from 4" to 8" and you are down to only 1/16th of the light power :(
Hence why getting the lamp as close as possible benefits the plant (or wastes less available light).
I don't use CFLs so have no personal experience, so don't know how well they work with close distances. I have lighting rigs made up of fluorescent T5 tubes. The tubes are spaced just a couple of inches apart (8 tubes in a 2' wide lighting rig), and the whole lighting rig is then positioned only a couple of inches above the seedlings. It may be that with a CFL bulb that is not practicable.
All and any light will help of course, but to get the most from the lamp, or put any other way "waste the least energy", try to get it as close as possible.
-
It may be that with a CFL bulb that is not practicable.
All and any light will help of course, but to get the most from the lamp, or put any other way "waste the least energy", try to get it as close as possible.
Oh indeed...I do agree 'as close possible'..too far and it is waste. The issue with CFL bulbs and with close spacing is the heat. Although they don't produce as much heat as other type grow lamps, 'inch or 'two' distance will be to hot for plants..particularly young and tender seedlings.
-
Useful to know, thanks.
Am I right in thinking that the CFL lamp looks a bit like a Gatling gun! of narrow-bore fluorescent U-shaped tubes? Does it have a reflector above it perhaps?
-
Useful to know, thanks.
Am I right in thinking that the CFL lamp looks a bit like a Gatling gun! of narrow-bore fluorescent U-shaped tubes? Does it have a reflector above it perhaps?
In past light 'cabinet' models I have used home made reflector above a bulb..but this time around, with the 'mark3' I haven't...yet.
All surfaces inside the unit is reflective material, so time will tell if that is good enough or if I have to craft separate reflector just above the bulb too....early days yet, but so far so good.
These sort of bulbs are rather large...lol..though I don't know what Gatling gun looks like but I can imagine one... :drunken_smilie: :toothy10:
-
I just googled a Gatling gun and the CFL bulbs definitely do not look like them. The 45W CFL is a helix spiral compact fluorescent lamp which produces a lot of light. The 45 watts of power produces 3000 lumens, which is roughly the same as a 225w incandescent light. It is a huge bulb.
See:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-BC-B22-/200695971044?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eba697ce4
-
I just googled a Gatling gun and the CFL bulbs definitely do not look like them. The 45W CFL is a helix spiral compact fluorescent lamp which produces a lot of light. The 45 watts of power produces 3000 lumens, which is roughly the same as a 225w incandescent light. It is a huge bulb.
See:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-BC-B22-/200695971044?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eba697ce4
:laughing7:..I had to google it too now that you mentioned doing it... :icon_cheers:
I don't know what to day.... :laughing7:...I kind of see both views presented same time...LOL
-
The 45W CFL is a helix spiral compact fluorescent lamp
Ah, OK. Not seen that ype before, the sort of thing I was thinking of looks like this:
(http://11il.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/300w-cfl-grow-light1.jpg)
which, to my mind (assuming mounted horizontally), produces as much light going Up as Down, and clearly the upper light has no direct route to go downwards so has to come off a reflector above
-
I thought that was the bulb you were thinking of kGarden.
I sorted out a lot of polystyrene lids yesterday but some of them are very dirty where they have been laying in the shed. I will have to paint them as a lot have rust coloured marks on them from where water has dripped on them. I seem to have enough to do the job so will get on with painting them today then I can duck tape them around the frame.
Some of the chilli and pepper plants in the propagator are an inch tall now so need repotting. I assume they can be planted deep when repotting, the same as tomatoes? I don't want them too leggy.
-
Some of the chilli and pepper plants in the propagator are an inch tall now so need repotting. I assume they can be planted deep when repotting, the same as tomatoes? I don't want them too leggy.
Yup. I don't think you will have a problem planting any seedling, up to its seed leaves, when pricking out. I would be careful burying any deeper than that unless you know that the plant doesn't mind (such as Tomatoes). Cucumbers, for example, are likely to hate having their stems buried as they easily suffer from stem-rot.
-
Some of the chilli and pepper plants in the propagator are an inch tall now so need repotting. I assume they can be planted deep when repotting, the same as tomatoes? I don't want them too leggy.
Yes you can plant them deeper...though I don't do them as deep as I would tomatoes, which sometimes get as deep as leaves just touching the compost.
But that's where the lights come handy....if you move them very early on under lights...they won't stretch and don't need much attention for some while. Top growth won't start until they've made good amounts of roots. I don't prick and pot mine until they have first pair of true leaves just about starting to emerge...where as tomatoes will romp away with their growth as soon as they pop their heads up.
I will wait another couple of weeks before thinking of giving of re-potting my chilli seedlings...and next stage from 'thinking' to action might take some while too... :glasses9:
Now my sweet potatoes that were moved back into propagator...HUH...they decided that it was happy move and all of the sudden they stopped sulking and new growth is popping up all over the place! :icon_cheers:
-
But that's where the lights come handy....if you move them very early on under lights...they won't stretch and don't need much attention for some while. Top growth won't start until they've made good amounts of roots. I don't prick and pot mine until they have first pair of true leaves just about starting to emerge...where as tomatoes will romp away with their growth as soon as they pop their heads up.
I will wait another couple of weeks before thinking of giving of re-potting my chilli seedlings...and next stage from 'thinking' to action might take some while too... :glasses9:
They are in very small biodegradable fibre seedling pots (see below) so should I keep them in those in the light box until they have leaves? I still haven't painted the polystyrene bits yet as we had to go out yesterday and were late getting back. I am busy this weekend so they will have to wait until Monday.
-
Yes you can keep them in those trays for time being.
I'll post another pick for you when my seedlings are ready for next stage so you can compare to your seedlings.
-
Thanks, Goodlife.
-
This is fascinating stuff! I might have to build a light cabinet myself.
-
Just ordered two bulbs plus holders, for a total of £25.
I'm going to use two old (but functional) guinea pig cages, the sort with a plastic tray as the base and a wire top. They are 12" tall, but I can lift up the wire parts if necessary. And we have some leftover underlay from when we installed wood flooring in the living room - it's thin polystyrene with a silver reflective coating, and I'm going to duct tape it together to make a kind of slipcover for each cage.
It's kind of exciting!
-
I just thought I would give an update on my propagator and light box as this was all new to me when I started this thread.
The propagator is all right but I have an awful lot of chilli and pepper seeds that haven't germinated yet and they have been in there for a few weeks now. Many are recently bought seeds too. I can understand it more for those seeds that are a few years old yet surprising enough I have had better results with those.
The light box on the other hand has been a real boon and everything looks so healthy in there. The stems have thickened up with those plants that were a bit leggy. It has been well worth the effort making up the box. All I did really was to copy Goodlife's design of using the top half of one of those cheap portable greenhouses and then placed polystyrene box lids around the outside. John cut slits on the two pieces that make up the roof section, so they fit over the four uprights. I haven't taped the polystyrene bits together as I didn't think they needed it. The only expense has been the the two bulbs and lamp holders.
How are the rest of you getting on with your recently constructed light boxes?
-
I only put seeds in the propagator a few days ago and my bulb holders only arrived yesterday so I haven't got round to constructing the light boxes just yet, since I don't have a desperate need for them.
All I need to do is make reflective slipcovers for the cages I'm using, which won't require much work.
-
My seedlings are doing well....though they should have been pricked and potted long time ago.. :BangHead: I keep promising to myself getting on with the job and then I look outside and thinking all that cold compost that is stacked up in GH...not very inspiring.
So, I've started to use teeny bit fertilizer in water since the seedlings are still in seed compost and I have to say, they are looking good.
I must get to potting and soon!
As for the germination...for some reason good proportion of my seed had been VERY slow to germinate this year???? Some have taken almost 3 weeks and still very slow to come out of their seed shells even the stems are almost straight!!! And some failed to show heads at all...although I suspect old seeds are reason for those. It has not been the best germination year for my chillies!?
But I suspect I still got more than I truly need...why is mind always so greedy....? :angel11:
Well..it will be time for pepper seeds soon... :toothy10:
-
(https://kgarden.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/img_5645_onionseedlings.jpg)
Onions sown 10-Jan, Germinated 16-Jan, Pricked out 24-Jan [into 1″ square modules] and grown on under a [Metal Halide] lamp. Photo 10-Feb
(https://kgarden.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/img_5643_pepperaubergineseedlings.jpg)
Sweet and Chilli Peppers (left) and Aubergines (Right)
Seeds sown on 10-Jan, Germinated 19-Jan, Pricked out 24-Jan [into 1″ square modules] and grown on under a (Metal Halide) lamp. Photo 10-Feb
Shortly to be potted-on to 9cm
-
Wow, do you have a heated greenhouse to grow the peppers and aubergines on in? Mine's not heated, and I don't think it'll be warm enough for those sorts of plants for months yet.
-
do you have a heated greenhouse to grow the peppers and aubergines on in?
Nope, I figure that its better to grow them on indoors, under lights, than heat the greenhouse.
I could heat the greenhouse, but the light (especially in January / February) would still be rubbish ... whereas light the plants indoors they are definitely warm enough and maybe?? running the lights is cheaper than a greenhouse heater would be. I have PV panels on the roof, and we don't use all the generated power during the day, so on sunny days, at least, my electricity for the lamp is "free"
-
Wow, KGarden, your plants look so good! :icon_cheers: I hope mine do as well as that.
-
Wow, KGarden, your plants look so good!
Thanks, but do take into account that I am seriously cheating!!
-
Wow, KGarden, your plants look so good!
Thanks, but do take into account that I am seriously cheating!!
? ? ? How so?
-
How so?
My Cannabis-style lighting rig :)
-
How so?
My Cannabis-style lighting rig :)
AH!....and now I'm going to ask what I've been wondering about...
...what is that 'spiky' plant at bottom left hand corner? Something to 'go with' the style of lighting..? :tongue3:
-
My peppers and chillies were sown about the same time as yours but are nowhere near as big. Is this due to your having a different lighting set up and is a metal halide lamp expensive to run compared with 45W growlamp bulbs?
I am running out of room now so will have to put my propagator somewhere else so I can extend my light box to take up all the working surface.
-
AH!....and now I'm going to ask what I've been wondering about...
...what is that 'spiky' plant at bottom left hand corner? Something to 'go with' the style of lighting..?
I wish I knew! And sadly, no, not part of some High Value Cash Crop!!
I need to post a photo of it in case anyone knows what it is. It arrived in a pot sown with some Agave seeds ... and there are definitely some baby Agaves in the pot, plus that prickly monster (relative to the size of the Agaves!)
My peppers and chillies were sown about the same time as yours but are nowhere near as big. Is this due to your having a different lighting set up
Yup, WAY more light output from a Metal Halide lamp
and is a metal halide lamp expensive to run compared with 45W growlamp bulbs?
Sadly yes. Its 400W so is 10x the running cost of your 45W bulb. But I'm not convinced that a 45W bulb makes that much difference - although I've never done a side-by-side test.
Here's my Costing Sums
My lamp runs, say, 12 hours a day from January through March or maybe April. Once the conservatory is warm enough I put the lamp in there and run it at night - so the plants get daylight and extra at night.
8 hours per day x 4 months = let's say 1,000 hours
Electricity is, I am guessing, 17p per unit. A unit is 1kw (1000W) running for one hour.
So my 400W bulb running for 1000 hours is 0.4kW x 1000 Hours = 400kWh = 400 units.
400 units * 17p = £68
My Peppers have been potted on today; they won't all fit under the lamp any more, so will now have to fend for themselves - they have had a flying start. The lamp will move on to bringing on tiny seedlings like Coleus and Lobellia, which are very slow to get going.
P.S. One additional cost of Metal Halide lamps - they need a new bulb every season. The light quality falls off quite quickly, so not worth using an old bulb (as paying for electricity which only outputs 50% of the light compared to a new bulb)
-
Thanks for your reply, kGarden and your explanation as to why my plants are behind yours in growth size.
My plants are certainly much bigger and stronger this year than they normally are, so the 45W grow lamp bulbs are definitely doing something. What I notice more than anything else is that my plants are not leggy like they have been in the past and are producing their true leaves very much quicker.
I have been using multi-purpose compost mixed with perlite to grow my seedlings for many years, but it seems, from what my neighbour says, that I should be using John Innes seed compost, especially for chillies. I would be interested to know what you are all using?
-
I have been using multi-purpose compost mixed with perlite to grow my seedlings for many years, but it seems, from what my neighbour says, that I should be using John Innes seed compost, especially for chillies. I would be interested to know what you are all using?
I've made my own seedcompost using MP compost as 'base' and adding some peat, generous amount of sand and vermiculate to improve drainage and 'keeping the seeds warm' quality and with added extras I tried to 'dilute' the nutrients in the mix that are in MP compost.
Sounds like you are doing ok with your chillies.... :thumbsup: ..and don't worry about it if you plants are not quite as advanced as kGarden's are. If you are going to grow you chillies in GH and can't supply enough additional heating for them, there is nothing gained to get the plants ready early on the year. Keep them growing on steady pace next couple of months and then they should be big and strong enough for 'great outdoors' in GH and should manage fine without heating...though they might need protection from fleece for week or two until they are fully acclimatized.
You can start giving fertilizer for you plants too....supply from compost doesn't last long! BUT...do give it in VERY diluted strength for start...1/4 strength of more and you can give it almost every watering...occasional plain water every so often is good..and they are better off not watered really really wet. Until the plants are big enough to use all the moisture and quickly too...soggy compost is chillies biggest enemy.
And since you have the other 'colour' bulb too....if you plants should get budding stage before you get them into their final growing place...you could add the other bulb, which will benefit the plants at that stage.
-
Thanks Goodlife.
I have a couple more questions in relation to your last post. You say that you put sand in your compost mixture and I assume that you use silver sand?
I wasn't certain from what you said as to when to start feeding? Is it best to wait until they are in the greenhouse or do I need to give them something sooner whilst they are still in the light box or on my working surface indoors? Thanks.
-
Thanks Goodlife.
I have a couple more questions in relation to your last post. You say that you put sand in your compost mixture and I assume that you use silver sand?
I wasn't certain from what you said as to when to start feeding? Is it best to wait until they are in the greenhouse or do I need to give them something sooner whilst they are still in the light box or on my working surface indoors? Thanks.
Yes...silver sand is ideal.
About feeding....fertilizers in compost are said to last about 4 weeks (often not even that long) and then all the 'energy' is spent up and plants can go 'hungry'. So, if your plants start showing any signs of producing slightly paler-yellowy green growth/leaves it is sign that they will need food. Like I already mentioned about VERY weak mix of fertilizer, I start giving odd doze after few weeks from potting on. You plants are actively growing under lights so they will need food too. I grow my plants in as small pots as possible, trying to avoid hassle of potting on so this feeding is particularly important...they will cope being little bit pot bound but not being hungry doesn't do any favours. Nice deep green colouring is what to aim for.
-
Goodlife, what do you feed with? Is there any preferred feed for plants under lights?
-
Goodlife, what do you feed with? Is there any preferred feed for plants under lights?
I tend to use chilli focus for my chillies and peppers through out their life...just diluting it according...chillies and peppers can be bit sensitive for urea content in fertilizers, so I keep to what I know works for me..heh, I have used same brand 'orchid fertilizer' and that works too for being very similar type 'concoction'.
As for other plants...some things I use 'green houseplants fertilizer'..to support the green growth rather than push the plants for early flowering...read; I buy all sorts in the end of season sales and decide their suitability of uses from the contents of the label..;D..
I look the NPK content...N content being higher for leafy growth...houseplant and other specific plant group fertilizers tend to be more..umm, thinking of right word now...'refined'? Can't think of right word so I try to explain what I mean.
The way I 'see it'...general bigger bulk fertilizers tend to be made of less refined sources of nutrients, which are fine when you try to grow more robust bulky plants in quantity..cheaper to produce and cheaper to buy and they are not that sensitive and it is not big loss if one should 'upset' odd plant.
Concentrated liquid feeds, particularly those for specific type of plants are more carefully put together..aim to feed more expensive (individual) plants often supplied with many micronutrients...brilliant for small sensitive plants. I've used palmtree fertilizers....baby-bio...baby-bio herb liquid fertilizer...general 'green' houseplant liquid fertilizers...orchid fertilizer 'for growth'....etc etc. All with good results and actually I don't find them expensive as I can use them literally few drops at the time, they last long time and each drop is instantly well dissolved in water.
Where as granular stuff has 'salts' and getting right consentration is smaller water quantities is more tricky and I don't want to make up whole bucket/watering can full at the time for more accurate mix and often they don't have those important 'fine details nutrients'...though drop of seaweed would remedy it quite easily.
At the moment I use fertilizer I bought from Lidl couple of years ago, they are biggish 500ml bottles and seem to last ages...'liquid house plant fertilizer for green leafy plants'...and its been just fine as 'general' feed for more and less anything while growing indoors. At the time it was cheap to buy too...and I'll be keeping my eyes open for some more this spring..brilliant stuff :icon_thumleft:
-
I start feeding as soon as the seedlings have true leaves. I use a very dilute liquid fertiliser
-
I start feeding as soon as the seedlings have true leaves. I use a very dilute liquid fertiliser
Thank you Goodlife and KG. I have bought organic seaweed liquid fertiliser and intend using it initially at greater dilution rate. Perhaps a little more 'controlled' than what I used to do, which was diluting my own comfrey liquid. The problem is that the comfrey gets quite smelly in the conservatory on the capillary matting when the plants are a bit bigger, and dosing it is a bit of a gamble too.
Thanks for info and reassurance. :wave:
-
Nothing happening in my propagator yet apart from the first signs of mould.
This worries me.
-
Too wet perhaps?