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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: aquilegia on March 10, 2005, 15:28:11
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What are the pros and cons of raised beds and... er... non-raised/flat/normal beds?
If the clay soil is ever dry enough to dig, that is, I'm wondering which to go for in the veg patch extension. It's approx 3m x 3m and I'm going to divide it into four fix beds, with slab paths in between.
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There are 'true' raised beds and beds that are simply higher than the rest of the plot. Sounds silly but true. Without going into loads of detail which is already on here, see if this answers your question;
For a start, raised beds are always better if your soil is heavy clay. Clay doesn't drain too well so if you start off with an edging a foot or more higher round your intended raised bed, you can add to it to create a higher bed right away. If you don't have enough spare soil or lots of compost now, simply add to it over time until you get the height you're after.
Don't be tempted to fill it with soil from elsewhere on your plot, all you end up with is a large area of subsoil where you took it from which won't grow anything and will be nothing less than a lake.
Your best bet is to start off with a raised bed of a size you can create, even if it's just a couple of yards wide and long. Get loads of compost into it and increase it's size by creating a second raised bed next to it. You then just move your edging to include the new bit.
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I've never understood this fashion for raised beds, except for wheelchair users, in which case they need to be about 3 feet high. I know the theory is they don't need to be dug as often, because if they're narrow enough then you can avoid walking on them and compacting the soil but consider this:soil is not inert or static but teeming with micro-organisms which move particles of soil around. Surely having narrow raised beds restricts this movement. Also by having the soil raised it will dry out quicker and need more watering. Also you,ve got to build the darn things in the first place, maintain the timber and maintain the paths in between them. Personally I'd stick to level ground. No doubt others will have reasons for the opposite point of view!
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you don't have to have sides on it! We have deep dug beds (well we're on the way to having them anyway) which we won't walk on, or hopefully have to dig again as we are doing now we'll keep adding and adding to them, naturally raising them over time.
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Natty - What about avalanches? Wouldn't the sides collapse? Do you have them sloping inwards? (I'm not sure if I have that much room to spare!)
keep em coming... i'm still pondering...
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My experience:
I grow on a diagonally sloping allotment of very free draining soil. If it buckets down one day it'll be perfectly diggable 2 days later. After several years of trying to work out how best to water it without getting a river running downhill, I started putting boards up on the bottom edges and raking the soils flatter.
It works much better, both for size of veg. and for watering. And it stopped me getting quite as muddy...
I spent January building real raised beds in my second plot. All sides enclosed (though because of the slope, the bottom boards are twice the height of the upper!) and now I have flat beds for the first time. Having dug them over, I have lots of room to put compost on top, and am looking forward to not having to dig them again for a long time. I've a duff back, so this isn't a small consideration, and the water I will save due to less runoff will make it more efficient. Weeding will be easier to reach, and the paths have been carpeted and are gradually acquiring flints from the soil to cover them.
I am definitely a convert to raised beds, even if I do have to replace the timber in a few years. Definitely a plus for sloping organic sites.
moonbells
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they drain quicker and heat up quicker in the spring and you could use a strip of copper tape around the top to stop the slugs you can use fine soil with no stones for some nice carrots :P you could use that tar pond paint on the inside to stop the wood rotting
hope this helps you decide
np
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Our plot had a distinct sinking feeling when we took it over. :( One end was sunken and almost a foot lower than the other. At the other extreme, the plot also has huge ‘mounds’ of soil – most likely the remains of a old compost heap - on one side. Quite how it all ended up like this is anyone’s guess? I suspect the previous tenant never added any new material.
As you might imagine, the sunken bit suffers from a drainage problem as the dip is straight onto the sub soil. Since redistributing our plot soil wholesale would have involved back breaking work we struck on a neat solution – build raised beds in the dips. We found a whole load of pallets which our local Magnet kitchen place on the industrial estate kindly donated – and would you believe it, the planks were spot on 1.20m (4 foot) and the skids were perfect for corner posts. We took soil from the ‘mounds’ and mixed it with manure and compost and filled the beds.
This has solved our drainage problem and improved the soil quality. They also look great – I have to say that this is one of the great attractions of raised beds. If you like the neat and tidy look, they are the way to go. The plan is to remove them at the end of the year, level out the contents and rebuild them on top so gradually over time we raised the sunken bit back up the same level as the rest of the plot.
If you can find pallets like the ones we got you could easily get 4 x 1.20m beds with a good path in between a 3x3m square
By the way, if anyone’s interested, I’ve discovered the trick to not splitting the planks on pallets is not to lever them with a crowbar, but to hit the skids with a big hammer – the nail heads just pop through.
I hope my ramblings are useful aquilegia. :D I might get some pictures up of the beds this weekend…
Phin
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I've pretty much been convinced!
Drainage is definitely a problem, what with the clay, and it's also the lowest part of my garden.
Which reminds me, there is also a gentle slope in this area, which would be much more easily accommodated in terraced raised beds, Moonbells' style!
Sorry Simon... Raised beds win it for me (drying out is never a problem with my soil!)
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Another reason - growing on infected soil.
These are ours for this year's garlic etc. Yes, cut out of the photo in the slot below!
And they do help my back. And they are tidy!
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I have made raised beds on my new lottie , just finished in fact and they are definitly a lot easier to work. my lottie was very uneven and waist high in weeds so after digg all the weeds out I got old planks scrounged from builders etc and made raised beds, and we have used pallets for the fence..and we kept breaking the wood ,so thanks for the tip about not splitting the wood. We are about to build the rest of the fence this weekend so all I need to know now is ..what are the skids? are they the thick bits of wood in the centre of the pallet?
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Aqui Have you got this month's Kitchen Garden? Bob Flowerdoo is reviewing his trials (20 years) of experimenting with raised beds. it gives detailed findings and is right in-depth about the pros and cons. If you don't want to buy the mag I can photocopy it and email it to you
Wardy
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We have four raised beds on our plot. We decided on them because we had a flooding problem on the plot where they are. Have had two years with them now and have found them really good. Have cured our wet soil problem and they are so easy to cope with and no bother to weed. Just pile them with compost - very easy to maintain.
Phin, That is a really handy tip re the pallets. It is something my OH is always grumbling about. The laborious separating of the planks and the splitting. So good hint. :) busy_lizzie
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In my garden I have built 2' high raised beds with brick. These are easier to manage and a lot easier on the back! This is a true raised bed.
Down on the plot, (very heavy clay just a spit down) I started with creating a bed only about 6" high. I wacked the sides with a spade to give a firmer edge, it was about 20' long but only about a yard wide. This can't be called a raised bed in the true sense.
Over time I have put a path down the middle of the plot and slowly and continually am raising the whole growing area. This couldn't really be called a raised bed, but it is becoming higher than the original over time.
My main reason for trying to raise the plot growing area was because of drainage problems. If you don't have a drainage problem then there's not much need for raising the growing area, only a few plants need more than a foot of soil to grow.
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Hi Diver,
Yes, the skids are the thick bit. If you can find the pallets that have planks only on one side (or just 3 on the bottom which you can afford to lose if they split) then just turn it upside down and wallop the skid with something heavy - I use a lump hammer. I’ve drawn a diagram to explain. Here is it (hopefully):
(http://www.phinw.f2s.com/images/breaking_pallets.jpg)
Either the nails pop straight through the plank and stay in the skid, or they stay in the plank and you can knock them out.
If this works for you too maybe I’ll put it in top tips!
Phin
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Put it in anyway, Phin. That method (and/or punching the nail heads through) does work.
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I'm definitely going to do raised beds. If it's ever dry enough to dig!
I'm planning on cut the decking slabs I have in half and using those for the edging. (nasty decking stuff was all over the garden when we moved in, now plants are all over the garden and I have a huge pile of decking, so I can finally use it for something!)
Cannot wait to get started on it. It's going to look so neat and like a proper vegetable patch. Hopefully also it'll make it harder for us to inadvertantly tread on it (I'm going to try no-dig too!)
And I have plenty of spare soil and lots of lovely compost to incorporate into it.
I think I'll start off with them between 6in and 1ft high for now and gradually add more compost/soil (I certainly don't have enough for 2ft!)
Ooh - this is exciting!
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(Frankie Howard voice) Oh please yourselves!
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My plot is in East Flanders, and if anyone knows anything about WW1 and WWII you'll know about the claggy soil here.
This morning I added sand to a piece of new ground. I dug it over last year and bunged in lots of manure. This morning it was just like the rest of the plot, not as claggy as last week but still sticky yucky, hence the sand. It's unclagged it suprisingly well, so much so that I've sown carrots, spring onions and radish in it. All outdated seeds so if I get half to germinate I'm winning.
Pic's below. Also one explaining my idea of a 'raised bed' on the plot. Not a true raised bed, just a bit higher than the surrounding area. That's going to help a lot with drainage.
Pic1 is before adding sand.
Pic2 after.
Pic 3 is the 'raised bed' view.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Kenkew/095BeforesandFeb05.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Kenkew/096AftersandFeb05.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Kenkew/097RaisedbedFeb05.jpg)
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Looks good Ken and what a difference the sand made! I am using out of date and mag freebies on the plot at the moment, nothing ventured nothing gained! ;D
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You're as bad as me. You sure you're not from Yorkshire?
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Hi Ken is that Horticultural sand or plain old builders sand or silver sand or whatever ??? ;D
Looking god BTW ;) 8)
Oops edited to say I missed an 'O' Oh dear ;D
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Builders sand, the other is too expensive to scatter on the plot. I know it's going to probably contain a few impurities and possibly some lime in there, but the weather will help to flush it clean and I I can at least work the claggy (but very fertile) soil.
I bought some sand, cheap, from the local DIY shop for use in potting on. It's sand sold for use in childrens sand pits. Sold as organic sand....'Organic Sand...?'
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Organic Sand...?
It is AFTER the children have played in it :o
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Could some kind person give me the gist of BobF's article? Mag sold out here.
I have no drainage problem - so it's the other points I'm after.
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One raised bed is finished.
We dug down one spit (takes ages - had to remove loads of rubble and clay) and then losened the second spit (and took out more rubble). Then the useable soil has to be sieved back in as it's so stony. That took me three days. But at least the whole bed is finished.
Second one was dug on Saturday, but I only managed to sieve a few bucket loads in.
Other two will be finished by the end of April (I hope!) For planting after the frosts.
Already looks so neat!
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Photo, photo, photo.
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Ken - takes me a while - I have an old fashioned film camera. But when it's finished - definitely!
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Raised beds by Bob Flowerdoo (gist of) good but don't need wood edges etc. They warm up quick but dry out quick too. |If you've light dry soil you can dig a trench lengthways down middle of raised bed where it will be cooler and damper and offer more wind shelter. On the ridge you've made either side the trench you can row fr beans, swiss chard and beetroot, spuds and sweetcorn In the trench you can grow celeriac, celery, leeks, ridge cumbers. You could cover the trench with glass to get seeds off to a flying start as you've making in effect a long cold frame. The following year use the trench for spuds and you can fill the trench with soil from the raised bed itself or weed and grass clippings. When spuds gone level out the raised bed and plant legumes and then brassicas (rotation we're on about here) You can level the bed with lime.After that you;ve got consolidated soil for onions and roots. If you wanted to leave trench in you could use it for early spuds. you can warm the soil with glass. Note that raised beds can be very dry and if you don't want to water than don't plant celery, leeks. Spuds will yield lower in a normal raised bed (eg without the trench) if not watered but will keep well. Spinach will not do well if not watered on the raised bed method. You need to make the soil as retentive as poss. Salad crops will usually do well. I think all in all he thinks they are worth doing but he has concluded that he can achieve rotation using the raised bed with the trench down the middle. He puts straw mulch down on the paths and up the sides of the bed to retain moisture.
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It takes ages doesn't it!!
We don't have sides on ours. But have been digging out a spit, then loosening the bottom since its all horrid clay, then digging in compost/manure depending on whats going in there, then putting the other stuff back ontop. Haven't been tilling it back in though just picking out the big stones/roots. A 10'x4' bed takes me about an hour and a half. We've done 4. Only another...er...lots to go!
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My method is exceptionally slow, then. The beds will all measure 4ft x 4ft. And I've done one and a 1/3 so far. hmm....
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This is a piccy of my raised beds under construction.
[img width= height= alt=" border="0]http://www.moonbells.freeserve.co.uk/allotment/2005/January_05/160105_2.jpg[/img]
At this point I was about halfway through them, and was covering with carpet as soon as one was done. Upper edges are 4" timber, lower are 8". The ground was so compacted that just single digging filled them to the extent you can see in the foreground bed. I'm sure that copious barrowloads of manure etc will fill them in the coming seasons!
I expect to water a lot anyway, and watching it all run off downhill (as it was before) is far worse than having to do it a bit more often but actually doing some good. And I am growing spuds in them - on plenty of nice moisture-retentive manure!
moonbells
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Wardy - thanks a lot - & for your previous attempt. = Tim
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Looking back to 'copper tape versus slugs' - very expensive.
So - just done them with vaseline - same as the Hosta pots.
The plastic ones could be done with WD40 - even cheaper?
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Looking back to 'copper tape versus slugs' - very expensive.
So - just done them with vaseline - same as the Hosta pots.
The plastic ones could be done with WD40 - even cheaper?
;) Thanks Tim, never knew that about WD40 ;) they must hate the stuff then? much more convenient albeit more smelly ;D
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Another bright thought?
Are raised beds less vulnerable to 'ground' frosts?
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I've given up with the lawn in my small back garden due to solid clay and a top soil of about 2 inches! I've created three raised beds - one 8ft x 2ft ish and the other two 2 1/2 ft square. Didn't bother digging out the grass. The big one I filled with soil/grit/compost which is now my herb bed. With the other two I covered the grass inside the wooden frames with "pretty well rotted but with recognisable bits in" garden compost, then a layer of well soaked cardboard, then soil/compost mix. One is for my son to grow sunflowers etc. in, the other will be where two courgette plants will grow - as at the allotment they grow too quick for me to catch!
It's worked brilliantly, no grass has grown through, the plants love it, no solid clay, no more broken spades/forks/trowels. The grass paths round them have been covered with weed suppressant stuff and will be woodchipped.
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I don't know Tim, but what I do know is on my wooden edged one on the plot, they are so easy to fleece, I just run it down the row and get out my trusty stapler!!
Ceri are they not wonderful! You can get the soil you want in them too!
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Tim I've just checked back from that Bob Flowerdoo info I gave on here and it just says the beds warm up quicker in spring so that kind of infers they are warmer. Also they are easier to fleece if we get a hard frost threatened
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Yes, I remember that bit. Just thought that, being higher, the plants would need an air frost to harm them, & that's much less likely at this time.
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Eh Tim! We've had air frosts twice this week up her in Derbys. I only heard this bad news one night on the news about 9.00 pm so had to hot foot it to the lotty to chuck some fleece over my spuds. Phew. Such dedication.
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Still enjoying them. And with vaseline all around the edge, not a slug in sight!
Lettuce just hearting.
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ooo Tim, they do look good! ;D
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But the spring onions are pretending to be chives!!
At least the radishes are better than I've ever grown in open ground.
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Tim looking good! My spring onions are still tiny so I'll have to be patient :) The radishes is sowed in my little raised bed link a bord box are fab - I pulled loads last night, some of which I'd left to long and they'd got too fat and split but they still were lovely and crunchy (I thought they might be woody)
I feel really pleased with myself ;D
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Not fully hearted, but worth picking?