Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: ACE on April 09, 2013, 08:20:53
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Although the Lady did me no favours, I find some of the comments in the press and on line about Maggie Thatcher quite offensive. Lets all remember she has a grieving family. I have family who were miners, friends who died in the Falklands, I worked 3 jobs to keep my head above water. I now pay the fat cats in public utilities vast bonuses. But If she had not done it somebody else would have instead. Bitter yes, but not vindictive.
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My heart bleeds for her ACE
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I also initially took that view with some of the quite spiteful comments around.
However after sleeping on it I guess it proves that she really believed in what she was doing and the divisions in opinion that still survive today shows her iron will in carrying out her ideas never wavered.
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My heart bleeds for her ACE
I can hear it from here! I actually find the fawning from Labour MPs and others who should know better the most nauseating.
Here's a challenge though - let's see how long we can keep this discussion the shed! :toothy10:
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Not a fan at all. But at least they can now stop wheeling out a look a like on her birthday.
She had dementia. Are her family grieving? I was very happy when my mother finally died, it is not a nice way to go.
But I am not sure that I agree that now is the time to put the knife in.
I am more concerned with what is happening now we cannot change the past.
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I do have to say, that as a woman and getting where she was and staying in office as long as she did, is quite achievement...does make you wonder what price she had to pay for it in personal level.
But what she did while she was in charge is another matter. It was all before my time here in UK..but effects are still clearly seen and felt even now. In midlands where her decisions ruined many lives, feelings towards her are still bubbling under the surface..it don't take much talking and the steam is out! Not much sympathy feelings when listing people talking about her.
I am more concerned with what is happening now we cannot change the past.
Yes...my thoughts too.
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This is a little story one of our local councillors used to tell ..................
Councillor Maye Dicks started from humble beginnings as a worker in the shoe industry. She later became a Labour councillor, town councillor, county councillor, had a street named after her and got an MBE shortly before she passed on. She was very plain spoken if she wanted to.
When Maye was a child, every summer holiday a girl used to stay in the neighbourhood. "She was a right stuck up cow even then, was into everything and didn't take no for an answer", so Maye told us. One day the girl fell into a pond and Maye (who was a few years older) struggled to pull her out. The girl was ok. Her name was Margret and had she not been ok, things could have been very different!
As for Maye's hard work in the Labour party? As she put it with a twinkle in her eye: "I am still doing penance!"
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Well said Ace, mrs Thatcher did some things wrong . She also did somethings right she made other countries stand up & take notice of us for the better.
If a good person does something bad, it does not make them bad it makes them human.
All my Northern family were miners. I do take the view that respect should be shown the woman has a family.
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I certainly didn't agree with all her policies and such a lot of what she did was not beneficial to poorer families, and the country. BUT you have to admire this woman's determination and grit. She was a strong lady who would not be swayed from a decision made.
I do admire her in that respect.
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"There's no such thing a society" she said, as she set about dismantling it.
A lot of the vitriol and the glee shown over her death should be directed at Thatcherism, which is still in rude health.
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Most of the bad things that Maggie is getting the blame for were going to happen anyway.
Face it, it was the 70's when this country fell apart.
Yes, you can blame some of today's problems with the extreme Thatcherite policies, but it was TB and GB that reintroduced those policies, so don't go blaming today's problems on what happened decades ago.
Just be grateful and let the woman lie in peace.
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I don't think I've ever read a post that I disagree with quite as much as that Chrispy! Still, each to their own.
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I don't disagree Chrispy, I was there. Although I do not agree with the disrepect with a lot of people venting their spleen. A lot of people where affected badly by some of the actions. But lets remember, she did not do it on her own, she headed a govenment. I am a bit peeved at the funeral arrangements though. I am wondering if it will also be a day for slipping some bad news by us, hoping we will not notice. One thing I do remember about the times was the cost of living rises. Nearly every month we had a rise.
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OllieC you are far too young to have any memory of how dire it was in the 70s. Nothing was working very well. nationalised industries all thought they had a job for life and didn't need to worry about paying their way, using public money efficiently or using a costs and profits sheet to see just how much public money they were pouring down the drain. Productivity was low, strikes were rampant, manufatcturing quality was bad and services were poor - all under labour governments who couldn't face up to the economic facts or manage foreign policy that well.
Margaret Thatcher came along and gave hope and aspiration to people who wanted something better for themselves and their families and restored public and international confidence in GB plc. She made mistakes - but who doesn't? Funds raised from selling off council houses should have gone to building more housing stock. Funds raised from selling off the utilities should have gone to better infrastructure such as roads and more modern railway tracks. Funds raised from selling off the mines could have gone to retraining people for other jobs.
She conributed a great deal towards bringing down the iron curtain and communism and left the UK in good financial heart. It took years of Labour to bring the economy to its knees again with high inflation and lack of investment in infrastructure, education, training and poor job prospects and job security, failed government agencies such as Border Control and the financial services authority and no money left in the national coffers to turn this around. Compare the UK at present with other EU countries and see what the prospects are for its children. The UK has the fewest people staying in education after 16, the highest rate of teenage pregnancy, the highest rates of teenage binge drinking. A fine legacy for Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
You don't have to like or approve of Margaret Thatcher to recognise that she got a lot right and believed in what she did. Today's politicians on both sides are mere boys by comparison.
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Meh, whatever. I didn't like the 80's much and I blame her for the poverty I saw. You can have a lengthy debate about politics on a gardening forum if you want, I'm not going to!
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I don't understand the funeral arrangements either.
I thought politicians do not get state funerals, and her own wishes were not to have a state funeral.
Why they are giving her a funeral that is like a state funeral in all but name, I have no idea.
She has a statue, that is enough, we don't need a load of pomp.
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I'm old enough to remember the 70's Obelix, but I'm not able to recall it through the same political filter as you seem to.
I remember jobs aplenty. Being able to leave one job on a Friday and find another by the following Monday was something we joked about. Skilled labour was something we were particularly good at. We led the world in engineering, marine and aeronautical skills. Thanks to the unions, we no longer had to tug the forelock to the works owner to beg permission to work for a pittance and without a thought for your safety or old age.
Then what happened, wasn't anything to do with your petty inter-party politics. In fact, it was the opposite.
It was the rise of the most vile creature yet. The modern career politician.
When business adds money to politics, that's when it all goes to hell in a hand-basket.
Where we are now is not due to one party or another, its due to career politicians simply taking their turn to make themselves rich under the guise of politicking. They lie, cheat, steal, make war, all for profit. The result is that's wrong with this country is rampant, unchecked Capitalism, or 'greed' as it used to be called. There isn't even a f*g-paper's width between the so-called parties.
The whole system is broken, and no amount of voting, be it for Labour, Tory, Lib-Dem or the bloody Popcorn Party is going to help.
Voting is something I have done at every opportunity since 1974. Not now though. I can no longer, in all good conscience, take part in what has become a circus.
To watch a prime minister standing up in the House of Commons knowingly lying to the house so as not to admit his/party's failings, is beyond a joke. Way beyond.
The next voting I'll do is with my feet. I'll gladly march to join others to bring down and replace this current state of affairs to a close. I'll do what I can to bring the real culprits to justice.
I'll do what I can to help replace failed capitalism with something a lot closer to a participatory democracy. But vote? Naah!
Viva la revolution!
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Let me know where and when, Nigel!
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I agree with Chrispy, fed up with hearing about it. It should be a private funeral, and no statue. Anyone with any brain/common sense will expect trouble on Wednesday. She was old, she died, don't agree with all this big funeral. Only another 6 days to get through with all the radio/TV/paper coverage. Hopefully next week, if the weather is good, can go to the allotment and not listen to any of it. As my old gran used to say, give me flowers when I am alive, I will not appreciate them when I am dead, and we always gave her flowers. Maggie is dead, so what a load of fuss and waste of money.
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I've got to watch the funeral, the chance to see Jeremy Clarkson in something other than jeans is too good an opportunity to miss. :tongue3:
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I'm old enough to remember the 70's Obelix, but I'm not able to recall it through the same political filter as you seem to.
I remember jobs aplenty. Being able to leave one job on a Friday and find another by the following Monday was something we joked about. Skilled labour was something we were particularly good at. We led the world in engineering, marine and aeronautical skills. Thanks to the unions, we no longer had to tug the forelock to the works owner to beg permission to work for a pittance and without a thought for your safety or old age.
Then what happened, wasn't anything to do with your petty inter-party politics. In fact, it was the opposite.
It was the rise of the most vile creature yet. The modern career politician.
When business adds money to politics, that's when it all goes to hell in a hand-basket.
Where we are now is not due to one party or another, its due to career politicians simply taking their turn to make themselves rich under the guise of politicking. They lie, cheat, steal, make war, all for profit. The result is that's wrong with this country is rampant, unchecked Capitalism, or 'greed' as it used to be called. There isn't even a f*g-paper's width between the so-called parties.
The whole system is broken, and no amount of voting, be it for Labour, Tory, Lib-Dem or the bloody Popcorn Party is going to help.
Voting is something I have done at every opportunity since 1974. Not now though. I can no longer, in all good conscience, take part in what has become a circus.
To watch a prime minister standing up in the House of Commons knowingly lying to the house so as not to admit his/party's failings, is beyond a joke. Way beyond.
The next voting I'll do is with my feet. I'll gladly march to join others to bring down and replace this current state of affairs to a close. I'll do what I can to bring the real culprits to justice.
I'll do what I can to help replace failed capitalism with something a lot closer to a participatory democracy. But vote? Naah!
Viva la revolution!
Best post in ages. I'll be there with Caroline.
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I'll just add this, posted on Facebook by a good friend:
So, Baroness Thatcher has died. I won't rejoice in her death like some, but neither will I shed a tear. I saw what she did to the community I grew up in, I saw how it was ripped apart, divided (and in some places still is). My parents, whilst not miners, worked in mining communities and saw 1st hand how local communities suffered. I never had to go to a soup kitchen, or steal coal, or beg for money - but plenty did. I was fortunate where many weren’t.
As a teenager I remember friends standing on the picket lines with their fathers, as Thatcher brought in troops dressed as policemen, where "battles" happened daily, mounted police charging at the miners, picketers were chased through gardens and beaten with truncheons. She froze assets, stopped benefits, just so people were either forced to cross picket lines or go hungry – The lady was adamant she would win. No thought for the children who went hungry, none whatsoever.
For those that didn’t live in those communities or those times, you will never understand – you will never understand why people hate her so much and rejoice today. So don’t judge them, just try and understand why. Try and imagine that if somebody today, tried to take away your livelihood, tried to stop you receiving any money for you or your children, to the point of starvation - just to get over a political point – try and think how you would feel. Try to think how you would cope!
Then and only then will you begin to realise why they celebrate today.
I had to steal coal from the slag heaps, and cut down trees from the local woods to help keep us all warm. I was 15 at the time.
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Nigel B - I do agree about the majority of the current crop of politicians being there to line their own pockets but I fear that altruistic politicians who do the job for the good of their constituents and their country have been a rare breed for some time.
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She was primarily a person, a wife, a mother. RIP Maggie XX Jeannine
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Ten million, they certainly know how to put peoples backs up. Even though I do not hold with a lot of the disrepect Ten million is a hell of a lot of money. Just think how that would have saved jobs, wards, schools etc. They tax my pension, which if it helps somebody is alright but to blow it on a funeral is really annoying me. This is just the funeral. the statue, MP's attendance allowances, policing civil unrest because of the bad feeling this is generating will at least double it.
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/64397_359785274122081_500006414_n.jpg)
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DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD
got to no 2 in the charts
maggi wouldn't have liked coming 2 nd.
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I really do not think this goverment relises what a very big mistake they are making with this 10 million funeral.
I think Wednesday is going to be a very mixed bag of likes & dislikes on the streets of london." BIG MISTAKE" Cameron. :angry4:
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I'll be there with you Nigel, Caroline and Robinhood.
But I will still be voting even if 'for none of the above'. Women died for my right to vote. Grandma would be back to haunt me if I didn't.
I am sick of the fawning and constant news about her in death. OK she was old, she died, let her family bury her at their expense. They profitted from her time in office.
How many of us will pop our clogs in the Ritz.
I was totally opposed to her and her Rottweiler politics and I am incandescent about using tax payers money to put on a show at our expense especially in these really tough times. :BangHead:
Just think of the useful things that could be done with all that money. It could be used to bail out another bank and give greedy bankers a bigger bonus. :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
And as for the appalling lot of politicians we have had since her deposition and their mismanagement of the affairs Englaise, then a plague on all their houses.
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DING BLOODY DONG
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Driving me bonkers this is. Mrs Tweedy, Caroline and Robinhood, I'll be proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you all.
How the b****y h**l this 'somebody's Mother' gets all this treatment if waaay beyond me.
I just heard one commentator describing how 'Sir' Mark Thatcher turned up early before the rest because, and this is an almost-quote, "He's an organiser."
Organiser??
Actually, that's correct!
He's a b****y organiser all right!
In 2005 he was convicted and given a four year suspended jail sentence in South Africa in relation to the 2004 Equatorial Guinea coup d'état attempt.
How's that for organising? I can barely organise my seed-box, never mind the illegal military overthrow of another country!
Also organised, is his tax-free overseas accounts. Back in 2004 the Sunday Times estimated his wealth at £60 million, most of they suggested was in offshore accounts. He left the UK in 1986, and since then has lived in the USA, Switzerland, South Africa and more recently in Monaco, Gibraltar, Barbados, Guernsey and Spain. (Wiki)
He's only Sir Mark Thatcher because his dad died and he inherited his title! Most people would have had their title stripped from them for just some of the stuff he's been up to.
Never mind the arms deals and the rest.
Still, all said and done, its our own fault for putting up with it all.
If we cared. Even a small amount. We'd have heads on pikes at Traitors Gate and a clean sweep of the lot!
Gnash gnash...... :BangHead:
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It is just awful. Even if I was a tory, I would accept that a huge number of people in the country hated her and all that she stood for and that all this pomp and ceremony is an insult to all of us who are paying for it. Now we have George Osborne snivelling tears when he has wielded the axe over the poorest in society with no compassion at all. As for all the talk of what her faith meant to her, well she was nothing like any Christian I have ever respected. What a bunch of hypocrites.
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Driving me bonkers this is. Mrs Tweedy, Caroline and Robinhood, I'll be proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you all.
How the b****y h**l this 'somebody's Mother' gets all this treatment if waaay beyond me.
I just heard one commentator describing how 'Sir' Mark Thatcher turned up early before the rest because, and this is an almost-quote, "He's an organiser."
Organiser??
Actually, that's correct!
He's a b****y organiser all right!
In 2005 he was convicted and given a four year suspended jail sentence in South Africa in relation to the 2004 Equatorial Guinea coup d'état attempt.
How's that for organising? I can barely organise my seed-box, never mind the illegal military overthrow of another country!
Also organised, is his tax-free overseas accounts. Back in 2004 the Sunday Times estimated his wealth at £60 million, most of they suggested was in offshore accounts. He left the UK in 1986, and since then has lived in the USA, Switzerland, South Africa and more recently in Monaco, Gibraltar, Barbados, Guernsey and Spain. (Wiki)
He's only Sir Mark Thatcher because his dad died and he inherited his title! Most people would have had their title stripped from them for just some of the stuff he's been up to.
Never mind the arms deals and the rest.
Still, all said and done, its our own fault for putting up with it all.
If we cared. Even a small amount. We'd have heads on pikes at Traitors Gate and a clean sweep of the lot!
Gnash gnash...... :BangHead:
Didn't he get lost in the desert and dear MT want to send in the troops to try and find him? :BangHead:
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Driving me bonkers this is. Mrs Tweedy, Caroline and Robinhood, I'll be proud to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you all.
How the b****y h**l this 'somebody's Mother' gets all this treatment if waaay beyond me.
I just heard one commentator describing how 'Sir' Mark Thatcher turned up early before the rest because, and this is an almost-quote, "He's an organiser."
Organiser??
Actually, that's correct!
I was there ...I lived through it...I saw friends into their graves because they committed suicide because of HER...she has 'FAMILY' 'RESPECT'...when the police charge you on horseback, when you are starved and losing your homesw...talk to me of 'RESPECT' then for the person responsible...for her....I HAVE NONE, for her simpering, sychophantic minor celebrity children one of whom only escapes South African jail for instigating a coup... I have NO RESPECT...for all of them whoi had JIMMY SAVILLE to XMAS dinner 10 years in a row...I HAVE NO RESPECT....for the bised MEDIA, BBC and the ratbag TORIES who are decimating this country I HAVE NO RESPECT!....
If you got this far ALLOTMENTERS... remember this it was the working classes , and miners in particular who set up and maintained allotments...when the working classes were decimated by HER the allotments were slowly but surely sold off and dissappeared, and now there are waiting lists....WAKE UP PEOPLE for pity sake WAKE UP!
He's a b****y organiser all right!
In 2005 he was convicted and given a four year suspended jail sentence in South Africa in relation to the 2004 Equatorial Guinea coup d'état attempt.
How's that for organising? I can barely organise my seed-box, never mind the illegal military overthrow of another country!
Also organised, is his tax-free overseas accounts. Back in 2004 the Sunday Times estimated his wealth at £60 million, most of they suggested was in offshore accounts. He left the UK in 1986, and since then has lived in the USA, Switzerland, South Africa and more recently in Monaco, Gibraltar, Barbados, Guernsey and Spain. (Wiki)
He's only Sir Mark Thatcher because his dad died and he inherited his title! Most people would have had their title stripped from them for just some of the stuff he's been up to.
Never mind the arms deals and the rest.
Still, all said and done, its our own fault for putting up with it all.
If we cared. Even a small amount. We'd have heads on pikes at Traitors Gate and a clean sweep of the lot!
Gnash gnash...... :BangHead:
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I I am wondering if it will also be a day for slipping some bad news by us, hoping we will not notice.
Like the latest unemployment figures .................
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22180300
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Sorry...not used to this board yet...this was my tuppence worth....
I was there ...I lived through it...I saw friends into their graves because they committed suicide because of HER...she has 'FAMILY' 'RESPECT'...when the police charge you on horseback, when you are starved and losing your homesw...talk to me of 'RESPECT' then for the person responsible...for her....I HAVE NONE, for her simpering, sychophantic minor celebrity children one of whom only escapes South African jail for instigating a coup... I have NO RESPECT...for all of them whoi had JIMMY SAVILLE to XMAS dinner 10 years in a row...I HAVE NO RESPECT....for the bised MEDIA, BBC and the ratbag TORIES who are decimating this country I HAVE NO RESPECT!....
If you got this far ALLOTMENTERS... remember this it was the working classes , and miners in particular who set up and maintained allotments...when the working classes were decimated by HER the allotments were slowly but surely sold off and dissappeared, and now there are waiting lists....WAKE UP PEOPLE for pity sake WAKE UP!
and I meant to say the rest of it was WELL SAID! (the quote bit)
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Did anybody see George Galloway and Dennis Skinner last night in the commans they were absolutely right what they said why should the pm be allowed to dodge pmqs for 5 weeks and why should the tax payer foot the bill for her funeral.What she did is unforgivable such as closing down the pits decimating the shipyards and textiles and engineering ,selling off the utility industries off to foreigners who now rip us off with the price of our fuel bills. I am a union rep and also work as a volunteer advise worker for our local citizens advise bureau and what worries me what I saw as a young man in the eighties I am seeing all again but far more worse than it was then under this shower of s***.Lib/Dems should hang their heads in shame for allowing this to happen and they have committed political suicide of which I am sure they are aware.Nomspatch I agree totally with you
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The ceremony was good, apart from what anyone thinks about Margaret Thatcher. Perhaps we could do it again with all the horses, etc. just as a good day out and no funeral. Not sure that it was a good idea, but don't think throwing things at the horses and upsetting them was right, they had no choice. Hope the mararthon goes OK. All over now, St Pauls looked good, so lets all forget it.
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Can someone please tell me what exactly cost all the money that is being quoted?
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I was told 5 mill on security :BangHead:
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"I was told 5 million on security"
Why who the hell wnts to steal a corpse..her friend Saville is dead...
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The best idea was from those who simply turned their back on the cortege as it went past. No fuss, no hitting anyone, just a mark that they did not agree with her politics or what it did to Britain. Even though I admired her perseverance, it was often for the wrong cause. I am from a family of miners (my mother was from Easington Colliery!), so I know what her politics did to a lot of people already very poor, but at least proud and happy to be in their community.
Britain is now sadly a completely consumerist society, run by finance and the government are merely economic managers, with no vision or humanity. This is unfortunately true in most places. Thatcherism created an underclass in the UK, ruled by an elite of high flyers. It is going to take a miracle to remedy that! The best we can do is just to individually promote actions of kindness, generosity and social justice.
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The best idea was from those who simply turned their back on the cortege as it went past. No fuss, no hitting anyone, just a mark that they did not agree with her politics or what it did to Britain. Even though I admired her perseverance, it was often for the wrong cause. I am from a family of miners (my mother was from Easington Colliery!), so I know what her politics did to a lot of people already very poor, but at least proud and happy to be in their community.
Britain is now sadly a completely consumerist society, run by finance and the government are merely economic managers, with no vision or humanity. This is unfortunately true in most places. Thatcherism created an underclass in the UK, ruled by an elite of high flyers. It is going to take a miracle to remedy that! The best we can do is just to individually promote actions of kindness, generosity and social justice.
Well said.
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Good post Antipodes.
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The ceremony was good, apart from what anyone thinks about Margaret Thatcher. Perhaps we could do it again with all the horses, etc. just as a good day out and no funeral. Not sure that it was a good idea, but don't think throwing things at the horses and upsetting them was right, they had no choice. [/u] Hope the mararthon goes OK. All over now, St Pauls looked good, so lets all forget it.
That never happened Borlotti. Some Thatcherites were throwing flowers at the coffin as it passed and some media fool reported it as people throwing things at the horses.
Its a sad world though eh? Absolute truths denied. Statistics plucked from thin air, and reporters lying to sell more copies of their rags. :bang-head:
I honestly can't see a peaceful way out of this.... Unless we adopt the Icelandic model.
Rather than bailing the bankers out and protecting bondholders, as did our lot, Iceland forced losses on to the bank’s creditors. They allowed their banks to fail and jailed the miscreants that were responsible for gambling their country's money away. The banks ended up defaulting on more than $85 billion. http://www.businessinsider.com/iceland-default-2011-11?op=1
As I unerstand it, they then replaced their government with a new one and a system of participatory democracy that involves far more people than just a bunch of 'elected' representatives.
Iceland is fast recovering. When's our turn I wonder?
And yes. Well said Antipodes.
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Lets put an end to this debate and get back to gardening topics ! " ding dong the witch is dead "
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Well said Nigel B..Antipodes and Worzel....
Growing reeds for your roofing needs...
Always consult a Thatcher that has a good firm sod over their head!
:wave:
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Nigel, a lie will be three times round the world before the truth has got its boots on :BangHead:. It makes papers sell.
And I had forgotten all the stuff about her beloved son Mark. Perhaps he might like to chip in with the funeral costs. Just the thought of all that money being spent on her funeral sends my blood pressure through the roof.
Especially as my young DIL's mum died suddenly the day before Mrs T and they are struggling to find the money for her funeral.
It worries me that in this totally materialistic society, that so many of our young people are ao indifferent to politics and what the politicians are doing. :BangHead:
That's me lot now; suns shining so am off to the garden. Will find snails and slugs to cut in half and take out my irritation on them.
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Especially as my young DIL's mum died suddenly the day before Mrs T and they are struggling to find the money for her funeral.
Sadly, I know exactly how they feel Mrs Tweedy.
My partner's Mum died the day before Thatcher too. Her funeral hasn't taken place yet either. Because Mr Nig works a minimum-wage job, we have to pay. (The only benefit we receive is £20pw for my DLA, although they don't call it a benefit, they still add it into their sums)
She's had to borrow almost £600, (To be paid back from her wages at the end off this month. Every penny), before the funeral company will even move her from the hospital. The funeral is now scheduled for the 25th.
Please pass on our very best wishes to your DIL and family. They are certainly not alone in struggling to pay for a funeral.
Right! Potatoes, spade, soil. Let's mix-em-up and see if we can't grow a little of our own help. :)
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Thanks Nigel, I will pass on your good wishes.
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Condolences to both Mrs Tweedy and Nigel B....
I can see a time soon when the Hospitals will be so full of our passed loved ones that it becomes a public health issue, only the missus here has any sort of chance of being buried and it being 'paid for'....what are times coming to eh!
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Like weddings, funerals are only as expensive as you make them
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Like weddings, funerals are only as expensive as you make them
The cheapest you can get away with is about £2,000 and unlike weddings you need to have a funeral.