Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Jeannine on March 05, 2013, 04:15:22
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I wanted to start this here again as we have chatted in several posts about them but time goes on and we all forget where the info is and the newbies don't know the info is there.
There are quite a few folks growing perennial veggies and I think it would be great to have a topic just for this valuable information and hope everyone adds there input.
Maybe we could get it as a sticky so it doesn't get lost.
I am a relative newbie myself to perennial veggies and would welcome a reminder of types and growing needs.
I have two or three types of topset onions, potato onions, a couple of types of perennial cabbage, rhubarb, 3 types of Jerusalem Artichokes,asparagus and hopefully some Babbington leeks if they have overwintered. I have seeds for a few other veggies too which didn't get in last year but am hoping to get them going this year now I have a bit more room.
I find this area of gardening quite fascinating and find I am always on the look out for info regarding things new to me..
Please add your info and , successes etc
XX Jeannine
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We have a salad leaf/herb that is perenial. Broad leaf sorrel stays until the first frosts and pops up again at the first sight of warmth.
We have several plants in the garden it has a slightly sharp lemony flavour and is lovely in a mixed salad when leaves are small and delicious added to a cream sauce added at the end of cooking time. Large leaves make a lovely summer soup too.
We have to cover against the pigeons but we get loads and when it gets too tall our chickens get the large tough leaves.
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I love the subject.. :icon_cheers: Perennials are so tough plants and easy to look after, though some can turn into green thugs if not kept in check.
I have 3 types of Daubenton kales..and I'm still look out of more types..apparently there is over 20 genetically different varieties of perennial kales out there in collections (I'm sure I find a way to lay my greedy fingers on them).
I too have different onions and leeks. Out of all of them my favourite is my 'mystery chive'..that turn out to be non-flowering everlasting onion :icon_cheers: (I won't bore newbies with the story)..that one needs regular division to give plants room to grow so they keep their thickness and are useful size 'spring onions'..quite quick grower compared to other oniony plants. If not thinned out or divided it takes appearance of chives.
Yes..I've got artichokes too..2 types and both have become 'thugs'. They have happily lived on same part of the plot for some years now and despite my attempts of 'thinning out' and total removal..up they come again and with even more vigour.. :BangHead: As lovely as they taste I can only eat so many....and it all started with 5 little 'things'...
Asparagus..yes..hmmm...I started new batch with plants grown from seeds. This is year 3..they all seem to be still alive but for some reason or other they are not happy...last year It must been all that rain and year before that we had drought :BangHead: I'm giving them another year, lot of care and attention and if they don't show great improvement this year, then they are out and I'll put my thinking hat on...
Rhubarb.. :icon_cheers: LOOOOve them. I don't know what variety it is as originally it was bit of root pinched from another plot that was left to go wild. It must been old root even then and I've had going on for YEEEEARS. Its been transplanted only twice in its lifetime with me..recent bed is 3 or 4 yrs old and doing really well. There 4 big clumps and produce more than one household could ever eat. We don't eat it that much so most of the growth is left to the plant and some used for mulching fruitbushes and trees.
I've been trying to grow wild garlic several times without much luck, BUT...I think I've 'cracked it' :icon_cheers: Last year I was kindly sent some by ? (now who was it?) and some three cornered leek too and I can proudly report that all are just coming through. Perharps not enough to harvest this year but certainly alive :icon_cheers:
Right,that is all I can think of now (only just woken up and had just one cuppa..brain is not on 'gear' yet)..time step down and allow others to rattle away too or this will turn into 'story of my life' book :drunken_smilie:
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Goodlife, It was I who sent you the wild garlic and the 3 cornered leek, and I haven't liked to ask how they were doing, so I am glad to read this! Mine are rampant....fortunately the wild garlic really is wild, growing in a nearby hedge, so I can take as much as I like without worrying about the spread. But the 3 cornered leek is in my back garden and spreading like wildfire, needing constant hacking back. If you don't want it to spread, cut off the flowers!
You sent me a very generous collection of sweetcorn seeds, beautifully packed and labelled, in return. I had some lovely corn until the badger attacked (or the fox or the squirrels depending on who tells you) and I have plenty more for this year.
I am a great fan of sorrel, apart from the fact that it instantly goes an unattractive khaki colour when cooked. Therefore I use it in folded over omelettes or in pies (filo or shortcrust pastry) mixed with lots of other greens and herbs and cheese, or dropped into casseroles at the last minute - dishes where its colour does not put you off so much but you get the lovely lemony taste.... It is already looking very good here, medium sized tender leaves in big clumps.
I once had a purple sprouting broccoli plant that I somehow did not pull up when finished. It grew into a giant, and the following spring I had a lot more sprouts from it. I mean to try that again.
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Forgot to add that I find land cress very useful. In the ground it goes to seed quickly, but last year I grew it in a "self watering" pot from Lidl and it spent the whole summer throwing up tender leaves but no flowers. This spring it is well under way again - just the leaves. I am wondering how long it will last like this.....
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Did you ever find Nine Star Brocolli seeds because they are on here
http://www.terwinseeds.co.uk/
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Some others with star ratings:
Chinese artichoke ***** but best planted in a trench lined with horticultural textile - they spread sideways. Look like 60mm white witchetty grubs but delicious raw or cooked and no wind problems. So shiny they are really easy to soak/wash clean.
Tuberous pea **** but only * if you don't use the lined trench - impossible to find! Matt brown or black 50mm tubers with a real chestnut taste - only 'chestnut' substitute that actually tastes right.
Perennial chillies P.pubescens ***** - as hardy and easy as a pelargonium.
Lychee tomato - hardier than a pelargonium - good in a cold greenhouse - totally immune to blight and taste better than most blight-resistant toms. Hideously spiny 'lantern' only opens when the fruit is ripe. Most selections are for nematode lure (more like selling a dummy) but you can select your own and use the duds as a rootstock (I haven't actually tried this yet).
Can I mention some overlooked perennial fruits?
Fruit from epi hybrid cacti *****(not hardy) - 25mm fruits with intense wine-gum berry flavour - hardy as a pelargonium or better - but you need at least two unrelated plants for (hand) pollination - more if you don't want to store pollen in the freezer while you wait for another to flower. Ideal in hanging baskets - get a crop from that unused space in your sunroom.
NB like most jungle cacti, epi seeds are tiny and crunchy - unlike prickly pear seeds that are like chewing matchsticks.
Haskap/Lonicera caerulea **** - good blueberry substitute for ordinary soil. Japanese and Kamchatka selections are best.
Pineapple guava *** - nice ornamental plant but you need a named self-fertile clone to get flowers and fruit. Mere seedlings are often shy. Fruit tastes good if you don't mind the hint of iodine.
I'm sure I can think of some others.
Cheers
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What about Good King Henry? I often see seeds for it offered in seed catalogues but wonder how useful the spring pickings from it are when compared to perpetual spinach. Apart that GKH is perennial of course.
From the onion family there is welsh onion (certain japanese bunching onion types too). Not forgetting egyptian onions either. I'm trying all these onions this year. :happy7:
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For me the only perennials are fruits such as strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, black and redcurrants and good old rhubarb.
I've tried leeks, kales, purple sprouting broccoli, Swiss chard, asparagus, artichokes, Jerusalem artichokes, Chinese artichokes and overwintering onions but they've all been frozen to a mush in the last few winters. This winter hasn't been exceptionally cold but it has been well below freezing down to -20C on oaccasion and and wet or snowy for weeks and weeks and that's done for this year's efforts so I give up and will concentrate on spring to autumn veggies from now on.
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Good King Henry took over my garden and no one would eat it. It is stronger than perpetual spinach and the devil to get rid of. If it comes up again this year, I'll send you some seeds Ed. Didn't think chinese artichokes were perennial in so far as you left them in the ground over winter. I though you treated them like oca and lifted them in autumn and replanted in spring. Lost my globe artichokes during that bad winter of 2010 but replanted and they are okay this year. I mulch with loads of straw in late autumn.
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Oh my goodness, thank you Digeroo for the reminder. I did get seeds and I did sow and get plants but when at the plot a couple of weeks ago I forgot to look for them, there are several types of sprouting brocc there so I may have to wait and see which one is left standing as I noticed my markers have faded..oops.
After all the trouble it was to get the seeds I better look very carefully next time I go..any hints anyone please.
Great to see you all posting, Goodlife I suspect you and I are rewlated somewhere in the distant past, we seem to like a lot of the same things.
Re J A's. I left mine in the ground, we dug some two weeks ago and they were huge but in the back of my mind I seem to vaguely remember reading that if not lifted and replanted they go to weeds.. anyone know anything about this please.
XX Jeannine
XX Jeannine
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I planted JAs for my daughter about 6 years ago, but she does not always get around to digging them up. I have dug them up for her when they are 2 years old or more, and am amazed at the colossal size of them. So no, in my experience they do not turn into weedy small ones, but I have not left them for much longer than 2 or 3 years. It is a tiny allotment, so the manure and fertiliser and compost we put on it may be a factor. (Meaning that on a larger allotment these things get spread more thinly!)
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I had a bed I left alone for several years, just treating it as a seasonal screen. There were massive artichokes in there when I eventually dug them out.
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Evening all thank you for your interesting posts on perennials. Can any one tell me is Lovage a perennial? Mine comes up year after year in spite of trying to get rid of it. I think it just re-seeds it self. :tongue3:
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Yes, lovage is perennial.
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Thanks Robert and all. By the way can you put a link on here to the brassica cuttings thread I am not sure how to but I think it would be really useful.
XX Jeannine
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Lovage is quite a thug and I don't know many uses for mine. I have never noticed seedlings, though, and assume our climate is not warm enough for the seeds it apparently sets to be viable. It is a very deep rooted perennial and almost indestructable.
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"How to grow Perennial Vegetables" by Martin Crawford is an interesting (and cheap) read.
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Goodlife sent me two types of perennial kale last year and they are both doing well. THANKS GOODLIFE! :icon_cheers:
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Brassica cuttings link here: http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,67128.0.html (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,67128.0.html)
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We seem to have forgotten globe artichokes and cardoons. I can't really comment on either since winter waterlogging has always got them on my plot.
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Ah yes...I've got some artichokes too (on earlier post I meant JA's)..last year I was kindly sent some plants (now was it Squash or Betula...?)..I've got fingers and toes crossed that those have survived the winter and I had few plants that I grew from seeds as well.
Goodlife I suspect you and I are rewlated somewhere in the distant past, we seem to like a lot of the same things.
:toothy10: Call me Auntie 'G' :icon_cheers:
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Lovage is quite a thug and I don't know many uses for mine. I have never noticed seedlings, though, and assume our climate is not warm enough for the seeds it apparently sets to be viable. It is a very deep rooted perennial and almost indestructable.
We love lovage as something between a salad leaf and a salad herb (we probably put more in than parsley or coriander) - basically we regard it as curried celery. We also quite like the Italian bitter salad style.
It's also good in stews as a background flavour like parsley, garlic etc - L.D. Hills wrote that t'other side of the channel/north sea they call it the Maggi plant.
Unfortunately once it catches leaf-miner it is a write-off, unless you can train yourself (and everyone else) to hold off picking the good ones until they have removed the mined ones. I either microwave the miners or put them in the non-recyclable waste.
Cheers.
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Yes, I've heard the "Maggi plant" idea. It's just that it is so strong a flavour that you cannot use all of the gigantic plant that it becomes. My children (now in their 40s) remember that I read it was good for skin and hair, so were bathed in lovage as seaweed-like strands in the water.
However hover flies and other insects seem to love it, so it cannot be all bad. I have never seen leaf-miner on it?
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Is russian tarragon perennial, mine is coming up again and twice as much ??
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Yes, all tarragon is a perennial although the french tarragon needs a sheltered spot, Russian is more hardy.
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Interested on your comments on Jerusalem artichokes - I had read that if left to their own devices, they get weedier and produce smaller tubers (through competion, presumably). I grow three plants each year as that's enough for me, digging up all the tubers (that I can find!) and using some of the largest ones for the next year's crop. I pot each tuber in a large pot and they overwinter fine (at least I hope so). So I grow them like potatoes. The tubers I've missed in the plot do come up as well, so they would certainly be a perennial crop if I left them to their own devices. I'll have to see if the people on the site who leave theirs be get good tubers or not.
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I would not say the 'weediness' is about getting smaller...what I meant with the comment is that there is more of them and all over the place. In my JA batch there is huge number of both...BIG ones and and little ones.
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I am curious here. I have mentioned large size tubers and so have a few other folks, but just what is a large JA. How big isd evryone biggest? Is there an average size. We all undersatnd sizes in poatoes but frankly I am in the dark about JAs
XX Jeannine
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I am curious here. I have mentioned large size tubers and so have a few other folks, but just what is a large JA. How big isd evryone biggest? Is there an average size. We all undersatnd sizes in poatoes but frankly I am in the dark about JAs
XX Jeannine
The largest ones that I get are about 5" long, perhaps more and 2" or so in diameter. There will be other smaller tubers growing off them. It's the smaller of these largest tubers that I save to grow the next season.
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Wow, 2" in diameter is very thin, that is interesting. They sound more lke the shape on Chinese Arts. Mine are much more round but knobbly and about the size of a medium sized apple. There are smaller ones of course but no sausage shaped ones. Do you know what variety they are?
XX Jeannine
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I've got Fuseau that is the 'sausage type' that grow nice and tidy way...largest about 4-5" long and 1 1/2- 2" across thick...and then I have the knobbly sort, old fashioned type that can grow 'huge'. So far my biggest individual has been nearer large orange size...but that is not norm. Like you Jeannine..they tend to be more of apple sized.
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Wow, 2" in diameter is very thin, that is interesting. They sound more lke the shape on Chinese Arts. Mine are much more round but knobbly and about the size of a medium sized apple. There are smaller ones of course but no sausage shaped ones. Do you know what variety they are?
XX Jeannine
They were possibly Fuseau but not named on the pack. They grow like dahlia tubers, but a bit larger. Definitely long and narrow though not thin. They are not very knobbly. They taste good but give my wife and others wind so I am only allowed to grow them for my own consumption.
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Like you Jeannine..they tend to be more of apple sized.Whopsie daisy...sorry....not 'you'...should have said 'like your Ja's Jeannine' :angel11:
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They were possibly Fuseau but not named on the pack. They grow like dahlia tubers, but a bit larger. Definitely long and narrow though not thin. They are not very knobbly. They taste good but give my wife and others wind so I am only allowed to grow them for my own consumption.
Fuseau don't seem to have the flavour of the knobbly ones - though the difference is small - it took me nearly 2 years to cotton on...
Stuff always loses some flavour when you breed for anything except flavour. I like the knobbly red ones (I bought my growing stock from Selfridges food hall) - they might be Garnet.
As to the windyness - I find that if you roast them without burning until they become little bags of mush then the windyness goes from absurdly and irritatingly persistent down to tolerable. They are also delicious - almost like JA soup (heavenly) in a bag.
Incidentally Alys Fowler says on her "Edible Garden" show that making a dauphinois with JAs and Winter Savory removes the wind entirely - she seems dedicated and credible - but I haven't had a chance to try it yet...
Cheers.
PS. Jeannine - I think I'm lucky if half my Chinese Arts. are 2 inches or more in length, never mind diameter - how do you do it? Do you specialise in giant veg?
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I don't have ant Chinese Arts, sorry if I mislead you, I used to years ago but they were small like large cocoons.
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That sounds typical for chinese artichokes, Vinlander. One of the veg which would be good if it just got to a reasonable size!
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I put this on another thread but got no bites,
I have got plants of Eauwig Moes, Delaway Cabbage and Nine Star perrennial broc all planted together more or less and the labels have faded. One is very tall like a palm tree with lightish green leaves that are almost sorrel shaped, one is squat and close to the ground and looks kale like and the third looks more like a regular cauli plant.
Does anyone have any pictures of Delaway or can tell me what the leaves look like.
XX Jeannine