Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: Esplanade on June 07, 2012, 18:29:01
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Thanks for letting us on the forum :)
we're really looking for advice/help/support if it is possible please?
we've been on a council allotment waiting list for nearly 3 years and in that time, we have gone from #22 in the list to - wait for it - #47 (No typo!!)
..thats as a result of kicking up a fuss we think. The trouble is that there are so many empty plots (30% are untended - ppl moving, losing interest or dying) and the council just wont release. The land isnt up for sale or anything, they are just so lazy and incompetent. It borders a public park and it looks a disgrace. there is no allotment commitee.
We've decided to make a very big fuss now (in stages) and have decided to be very firm about our commitment to an allotment.
We've set up a blog which is going to chart our progress and if we dont have any success then we are going to name and shame via the press and via our MP and - of course - via the blog.
Its so upsetting that it is necessary. Does anyone have any tips or advice please - to help us?
Please visit our blog also and leave a comment of encouragement. It would be very much appreciated. ;D
Tania and Roy
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Welcome to A4A :) Tanya and Roy
Do you have a link to your blog?
Duke
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We feel your pain.
I took on a plot from a guy who had been kicked off for non cultivation and the people above me on the waiting list had turned it down. It took A LOT of old-lady-hours to clear it.
In summary, my advice is to give the new guy at the council a chance and support him any way you can rather than vent your obvious and well justified frustration on your blog.
You did ask :) :)
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Hello, and welcome to A4A.
There doesn't appear to be a link to the blog that you mention!
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^^ click on the username, profile contains the link.
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I found the link in the profile (pushing up daisies..)
Welcome Tanya and Roy.
I think perhaps the new guy is following the lengthy procedure of letters ,which he's probably required to do.I think they have to give something like 28days for response.I'm sure someone here will give correct information.
Plots left unworked are a pet hate,we have them on our site despite being self managed.There is a perfectly good system to remove tenants but they have to have the will to do it .
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Actually, I do think the council owe you an explanation as to why you have dropped down the waiting list.
But sometimes you have to forget the past and work with an old enemy to move forward.
Welcome to the forum BTW :)
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Same old story. Unworked plots sitting there while folks are eagerly waiting to get stuck in. This is just my opinion but I think that the proceedure for evicting folks that don't work their plots is very outdated and needs re thinking.
At the moment it can take up to 12 months to evict someone who isn't cultivating their plot and if they start to dig a little patch then they get to keep it and the process starts all over again
On our site the Allotment Secretary regularly sends out emails and puts up notices asking folks if they are having difficulties working there plot and do they want to downsize rather than give up the whole plot.
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thank you all so much for a lovely welcome and some great advice.
Of course we know that there is a 'new broom' in charge and we must give him a chance. Actually it's all looking very upbeat at the moment. While we've missed any chance of growing now it will be good to get a plot and get it into shape for next year.
The blog is an insurance policy at this stage as its very important to have photographic evidence ;D but we're really looking forward to turning it into our history - which will be so rewarding in itself.
Tanya is Russian and her family have had allotments all her life (dacha in Russian). We're looking forward to trying Russian cucumbers. We do grow in our little seaside garden but there's not enough sunlight to grow veg.. but we do try and try every year.
lasagne gardening - done correctly is our interest. We have all of the materials lined up and access to lots of horse manure, etc and of course - seaweed (with permission to collect) :-)
Quietly confident of making a new (untended) plot - very successful
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I do hope you get your plot soon. It is so frustrating to have untended plots. There are a number of threads on here from people who have waited ages only to find their allocated plot has not been worked for years.
It is even annoying for other plot holders because of the weed blowing seeds about the place.
Welcome to A4A.
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It may be worth getting in touch with the Allotment Regeneration Iniatative. If there is anew guy at the council they may be able to help and advise him and yourselves on how best to move things forward and welcome!
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If there is one in life that people who have responsibility want it is to get rid of some of it.
Have a walk around the site and approach people who have cultivated plots and find out if the are intrested in forming a self governing allotment association if you get people intrested then organise a meeting and elect a committee.
Once you have a committee have a meeting and make a constitution and a set of rules (plenty of members on here will contribute their allotment rules) for you to work from.
Organize a meeting with the council chappie and give him the committies proposal which will be to be a self governed site that will allocate allotments from a waiting list maintained by you. You will be responsible for the collection of rents and payment of rent to the council. ensure that plots are cultivated and maintained and evict non cultivated plot tenants.
Let the council know that you mean business and you may get what you want, more so if it means less work for him.
BUT be warned as some will tell you including me it can be very frustrating and there can be more downs than ups. You have to be prepared to take the flack from where ever it comes from and deal with it.
I wish you every success
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you could always say stuff the council and advertise locally. see if theres an elderly person or a busy person thats not got the time or the energy to tend there own garden. They might let you look after it in exchange for some veggies maybe.
Or Hugh whittingstalls land share?
I know what you mean tho, its the politics of the way they organise it all. And what it could be if it were run properly, and how lovely and tidy the area would be if it were managed and tended to.
Good luck x
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If there is one in life that people who have responsibility want it is to get rid of some of it.
Have a walk around the site and approach people who have cultivated plots and find out if the are intrested in forming a self governing allotment association if you get people intrested then organise a meeting and elect a committee.
Once you have a committee have a meeting and make a constitution and a set of rules (plenty of members on here will contribute their allotment rules) for you to work from.
Organize a meeting with the council chappie and give him the committies proposal which will be to be a self governed site that will allocate allotments from a waiting list maintained by you. You will be responsible for the collection of rents and payment of rent to the council. ensure that plots are cultivated and maintained and evict non cultivated plot tenants.
Let the council know that you mean business and you may get what you want, more so if it means less work for him.
BUT be warned as some will tell you including me it can be very frustrating and there can be more downs than ups. You have to be prepared to take the flack from where ever it comes from and deal with it.
I wish you every success
I agree with Davy!
It is hard work though and you have to be prepared for that. It is very easy to say 'chuck people off', but it isn't actually very easy to ask people to leave if they don't want to go. You also find that many people take on plots with little or no experience and really need to support to help them succeed. Our site is in a pretty good state we don't have any long term uncultivated plots, but it has taken a long time to get to that point.
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self managing is great but of course you need to be an established plotholder in order to even begin,chicken and egg situation! as someone else said,I would be very concerned as to why you appear to have slid way down the waiting list,as a priority
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I wish you luck in gaining a plot Esplanade.
Be persistent, keep smiling, maybe make an appointment to see the new guy on the block... chat and make friends if you can whist thanking him for his time gently ask the questions you want answers to....
I'm sure you know all of this... so excuse me suggesting the obvious but I always find I can more closely achieve what I want by using the personal approach with a smile, determination, understanding and (when I can) a few solid facts.....beginning with the confusion over your place on the waiting list....
Hopefully a compromise can be achieved which results in you moved back up the list and kept informed of any changes.
Unfortunately some people in offices behind desks tend to lose track of what happens in the big wide world outside.....remind them gently of how you feel and how disappointed and confused the situation is making you.
Good luck. ;)
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I wish you luck in gaining a plot Esplanade.
Be persistent, keep smiling, maybe make an appointment to see the new guy on the block... chat and make friends if you can whist thanking him for his time gently ask the questions you want answers to....
I'm sure you know all of this... so excuse me suggesting the obvious but I always find I can more closely achieve what I want by using the personal approach with a smile, determination, understanding and (when I can) a few solid facts.....beginning with the confusion over your place on the waiting list....
Hopefully a compromise can be achieved which results in you moved back up the list and kept informed of any changes.
Unfortunately some people in offices behind desks tend to lose track of what happens in the big wide world outside.....remind them gently of how you feel and how disappointed and confused the situation is making you.
Good luck. ;)
You are such a gentleman.. ;) ;D ..and I have to agree with you, gentle approach will work better to get your 'foot inside the door'. If you show too much 'force' in early stages, somebody may take offence and just for spite of it move you down even further down the list.. ::)
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Yes! Go with Goodlife's suggestion-you can usually achieve more by being polite and friendly than by going in all guns firing!
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If there is one in life that people who have responsibility want it is to get rid of some of it.
Have a walk around the site and approach people who have cultivated plots and find out if the are intrested in forming a self governing allotment association if you get people intrested then organise a meeting and elect a committee.
Once you have a committee have a meeting and make a constitution and a set of rules (plenty of members on here will contribute their allotment rules) for you to work from.
Organize a meeting with the council chappie and give him the committies proposal which will be to be a self governed site that will allocate allotments from a waiting list maintained by you. You will be responsible for the collection of rents and payment of rent to the council. ensure that plots are cultivated and maintained and evict non cultivated plot tenants.
Let the council know that you mean business and you may get what you want, more so if it means less work for him.
BUT be warned as some will tell you including me it can be very frustrating and there can be more downs than ups. You have to be prepared to take the flack from where ever it comes from and deal with it.
I wish you every success
thats a very interesting concept which you've described.. based of course - as was mentioned later - that we could actually get a plot ourselves before we could do this
are there any instances that you know of, where this has happened. It would certainly ease the pain for the council. It might be best to suggest it in the first place in case it wasnt possible?
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Yes! Go with Goodlife's suggestion-you can usually achieve more by being polite and friendly than by going in all guns firing!
thank you. Yes of course.. gently for the moment until...
31st July is the last entry date for the best kept allotment competition (which is not being run by the council). That seems to be a very sensible day to launch plan 'B' and to enter that competition with one of the overgrown plots and to call in the press..
we're just over the water from you, the water being the Tees ;)
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the weeds certainly have. we had a look at 'our' lottie at the weekend and the weeds are shocking, look at the Horsetail. It breaks our heart to be honest.
'Our' lottie is #36 - we've asked the council for this one. No-one has touched it in 3 years and the last tenants have left.
We've added a page to our blog and sent out some letters to some lovely people who are supporting us.
We also joined twitter (@noLottie) and had lots of encouraging responses.
So if you're a tweeter, tweet us please (sounds like a wee birdie)
Here's what we're up against.. isn't it disgraceful that a Council could treat an allotment on the edge of a public park in this way.
(http://217.174.242.52/rc/zetland-plot36-9june800x600.jpg)
It must seem difficult to believe that 2 grown adults are dreaming of such a plot ..
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Mine was as bad, except that it had a couple of tons of rubbish on it, which took me three months to clear, and nine trips with a small lorry to remove from the site. Fortunately the council took responsibility for the latter; I don't think they would now. Black plastic everything except a small bit to dig straight off, then start on another small bit. You'll get there.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/neptune1308/100_3493Small-1.jpg)
^^ Mine when I took it on. I recommend buying a VERY LARGE pack of glyphosate and giving everything a good spraying. Then start at the sunny end and dig and plant up the plot, Worked for me! However, I cannot sleep at night because when I lie down, my arms go numb. You are mad, you know that don't you?
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This was ours when we started: http://lottieplotfour.blogspot.co.uk/2008/03/new-beginning.html
Look at some of the recent posts for what it looks like now.
Lots of us have been there. You need to embrace the challenge and, with a positive, attitude you will turn it around.
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oh yes, we know that, but...........
we haven't got it yet. It's just sitting there - growing weeds. The council won't do anything at all...
The last 3 letters to the council chap havent been answered. He wont meet us on site. We've written to NSALG, Garden News, posted on 5 forums for advice, started 2 blogs, created a Twitter account '@noLottie' to share our campaign, have written to about 30 other people for help, have made a donation to our 'Town-in-Bloom' organisation, are now writing to 12 councillors, about to contact the MP, write to the newspapers, placing some adverts for our blog around the town.. all to name and shame our council into action.
we're not afraid of the work at all. We would love it IF we could... ;D
Please visit our blog and place a comment to support us :(
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Mine had been empty for 5 years before I was offerred it!
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Just imagine the levels of satisfaction once those overgrown patches are tamed, cleared, dug, weeded, planted, tended and producing successfully.
Hard work but many of us think it's worth it.....eventually. ;)
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Glyphosate won't kill that lot. I've seen people apply it many times. It's OK as part of a wider plan, but otherwise, all you do is kill the weaker weeds. The strong ones survive, and without the competition, they then come back stronger than before.
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Glyphosate won't kill that lot. I've seen people apply it many times. It's OK as part of a wider plan, but otherwise, all you do is kill the weaker weeds. The strong ones survive, and without the competition, they then come back stronger than before.
I agree with you.
I'd put a strimmer over the lot to keep the weed seeds from developing and to help me see!
Next I'd pick a good spot for a compost heap and another for a bonfire than I'd start skimming and digging a patch at a time.
It's slow, hard work but pays off in the end as you clear the annual weeds and dig out the others leaving a beautifully clear lottie.
Patience eh? ;)
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Ours had had a large chicken hut on it that had been burnt down. Years later we are still digging up nails, screws, hinges and bits of chicken wire.
Cheers, Tony.
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Isn't the best way to clear overgrown land to leave some pigs on it for a bit?
All of which is irrelevant until they get permission to do something with the place.
Or just say sod it, clear it, start to tend it, and then kick up an even bigger stink if the council ever try to throw them off it.
Which judging by the incompetence of this particular council would probably be in about 20 years time.
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Yes! Go with Goodlife's suggestion-you can usually achieve more by being polite and friendly than by going in all guns firing!
thank you. Yes of course.. gently for the moment until...
31st July is the last entry date for the best kept allotment competition (which is not being run by the council). That seems to be a very sensible day to launch plan 'B' and to enter that competition with one of the overgrown plots and to call in the press..
we're just over the water from you, the water being the Tees ;)
At least by the time you actually get somewhere and the plot is yours, the vegetation may be dying down and you can see what's there-it'll be a lot easier to deal with in the Auumn and Winter months. I was very happy to be in the opposite situation from you. I started off over 2 years ago at about no. 73 on the list. When I got my letter a couple of months ago I was stunned to find I was 5th top, and now have a great plot, uncultivated for years, with lots of top soil missing after the council had scraped the sheds and everything away. However, we're making slow progress on it, and are finding the soil that missed the tractor to be brilliant. If the weeds are luxuriant the soil is usually good. I really feel for you in your frustration, and hope you get your heart's desire very soon!
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So Esplanade how is the "get a plot" campaign going?
Is there anyone breathing behind those desks at your local council?
Are they all on holiday?
Do they know that you help pay their wages?
Are they aware that they are public servants? (like wot I was for years)
I'm sure you will have tired the ever so gentle, polite and smiling, careful / cautious enquiries... but if that hasn't worked and the direct questioning, letter writing for information and situation statement hasn't worked.....
You will have thought of telling them of your frustration over the situation and your intention to make a formal complaint to the person in charge....and / or write to the local press.
I think I'd get pssed *ff being polite and patient in the end. Jobs worths!!!!! >:(
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So Esplanade how is the "get a plot" campaign going?
I think I'd get pssed *ff being polite and patient in the end. Jobs worths!!!!! >:(
well... out of the blue this morning.. I was called by the news editor of 'Garden News' as a result of them following us on Twitter (@NoLottie)
they want to fight our corner and contact the council themselves!! which we'll be very happy to accept - adds so much clout to our shout!!
Then, suddenly without prompting, one of our councillors is contacting me to (on twitter).
seems that he'd made a couple of phone calls himself already.. dunno, I'd not spoken with him..
then I've received an email from 'Mr New Broom' from the council who has been advised to offer us a vacant plot!!
Hah - the power of the Internet !!!!! ;D ;D ;D
He didnt say which plot, so I tried to call him and eventually had to send an 'e' to ask him if we can have plot 36. which is the one that we want. He's replied saying he didnt know which number and will keep me waiting until the morning.... ???
might be resolved.. might be war! I quite fancy the war to be honest and could quite happily see me claiming 'squatters rights'
I'll definitely keep everyone posted ;)
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Well done. I am not sure you can dictate which allotment you are offered.
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Oh what a result !! Well done you.
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Why do you fancy a war when they are now offering you a plot ???
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Congratulations on becoming a new plot owner!!
Nice to know there's someone on the local council who has helped at last. :)
If it were me I'd be grateful to have been offered a plot no matter what number it is. As my grandmother would have said: "Beggars can't be choosers" so, no matter which plot it is go for it - better than no plot at all!!
Once you have licked it into shape it will be truly yours. I believe being an allotmenteer is all about the gentle way of life, getting out what you put in (if you're lucky & nature is on your side).
Here's wishing you many hours/days/weeks/months/ seasons and years of satisfaction and enjoyment - brilliant crops too. ;)
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Well done. I am not sure you can dictate which allotment you are offered.
Hello again everyone. Thank you for all of the wonderful comments, support, some criticisms (a little) and they were accepted gratiously. ;) ;) ;)
We were trying to break an age old system of allotment allocation which was in need of a serious overhaul. We would have been on a waiting list for another 3 years at least if we hadn't tried and so would a lot of other people.
We were persistant and I believe that this was the correct way.
At last, 16 plots on this allotment site have been recognised as vacant. The council have finally actively contacted residents who were on the list, many of these people have either left the area or are no longer interested and the list is now considerably less than it was a month ago.
It looks like 15 people are soon to be receiving letters from the council - that an allotment is available for them and this should bring the waiting list down into sensible single figures!
We've also been removed from the list and have been offered the plot that we asked for - Plot 36 ;D
Today - it's a victory for common sense.
We're both very pleased of course. Thanks to everyone for your support :-)
best wishes, Tanya and Roy
PS does anyone have a strimmer :o
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Well done not only a victory for you, but also seems you are helping others. It is just so frustrating to see uncultivated plots and hear of people struggling to tame plot left vacant for years.
Nice to hear you got the plot and the one you wanted.
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Well as you've managed to get a council to act sensibly, you're clearly a miracle worker so...
...any chance of sorting the bloody weather out?
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Well as you've managed to get a council to act sensibly, you're clearly a miracle worker so...
...any chance of sorting the bloody weather out?
;D ::)..that might be pushing it too far.. ::)
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Congratulations - once the plot is shaping up the next thing on your list of "to do"s might be to consider standing for Allotment Committe office... and if there isn't an allotment committee there
could should be ;)
Let us know how you get on with the clearing, cleaning, planning, shaping, planting and growing. :)
Good luck (as if you need it!!)
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We only had an hour on Saturday to visit and take stock of what we'd taken on. A brief tidy up.
Sunday we spent 3 hours and cleared an area of HT and learned about the plot.
Tonight we managed to spend an hour+
We have a great plan that will hopefully be a very interesting read too (on our blog)..
We have 8.8m x 37m in total and a 1m fence on 2 sides and a pair of double garages at the rear. The 4th side (long side) has a few short fruit trees on the adjoining empty plot.
The allotment is oriented East-West and is sun from sun up to sun down at this time of year. The long fence on the 37m side is continuous and is facing South so that will hopefully be a sun trap for cuke/tom frames next year. :)
We've pulled approx 30 sq metres of Horsetail so far. The plan is to clear it, skim 2.5 inches and smother the entire plot with 2x cardboard and cover with the soil again - to wipe the HT. Then we'll have 8x 10m x 1.2m main beds, oriented East-West which will be thick lasagna beds and several smaller beds for herbs, etc..
A patio area to chill in an surrounded in pots with flowers etc. A lot of composting boxes.. we have an enormous supply of natural waste available: grass clippings, seaweed, shredded paper and horse manure..
it's early days of course, we'd love to hear suggestions from everyone :-)
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Hello everyone.
we just thought that we'd pop back with a short update of progress - 6 weeks on.
We've managed to clear about 40% of the plot so far and put some beds in. Tanya's done a great job of restoring the fence and we have some healthy looking veg appearing.
Hope that you're all enjoying your allotments, good luck :-)
(http://217.174.242.52/rc/7-beds.jpg)
(http://217.174.242.52/rc/sweet-lavender.jpg)
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WOW that looks great. :) You must be chuffed with your work Keep it up and keep us informed of progress.
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looks good, glad you got it planted and not just covered, at least you will have something to show for all your effort. Good Luck.
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Looking good, keep up the good work. ;D
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I think your progress is really impressive.
Though if land has been covered with weeds as soons as you turn your back for even a minutes they will be springing up again. I would recommend mulching almost everything. Grass paths can look nice, but they grow very fast as well. I have started using straw on mine instead.
I do hope that the local wildlife does not come over the fence and rearrange your careful planting.
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Looks lovely.
Hope you are managing to keep the pigeons away from (what looks like) your lettuce. ;)
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Hello to everyone again :wave:
we thought that you might be interested in our progress so far..
we had a few setbacks with some local wildlife coming onto the plot and making 'changes' but we're moving onwards slowly. We passed an important milestone at the weekend - we cleared the final parts of the plot!
It's quite a size now that you see it all cleared. We're putting down #nodig beds and have all of our beds that we've laid so far - planted. The compost bins are going in and are getting filled too. It's exciting stuff; now's the time for planning our plantings for next year and making sure that everything is well mulched.
We're active with our blog and it might make an interesting read for anyone interested in the #nodig approach?
here are 2 photos - exactly 3 months apart, before and after.
(http://www.ibleep.co.uk/rc/zetland-plot36-9June800x600.jpg)
(http://www.ibleep.co.uk/rc/cleared.jpg)
take care, best wishes, Tanya and Roy
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That's a fantastic achievement :toothy10:
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Wow! What an amazing transformation! Well done you! :icon_cheers:
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That is truly an amazing job you have done. Major suggestion - give yourselves an enormous pat on the back.
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Hi Tanya and Roy
Well done i would love to have you both, on one off the 5
Sites Im a rep for , plot holder,s might copy and make my life
easier keep the good work up.
Digger 46
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Digger is right - if all our newbies got on that quickly as that well then our Committee would have a lot less work.
Well done indeed..
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Digger is right - if all our newbies got on that quickly as that well then our Committee would have a lot less work.
Well done indeed..
thank you, very inspiring comments for us!!
Tanya and Roy
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well done to you both thats an excellent effort.
Gazza
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Hello everyone and a Happy New Year to all !
We've just popped back in to talk about our progress on site. We haven't stopped even during the Christmas break and all the rain and we now have 70% of our beds in. The late spuds were a great success and we've cleared most of the produce now; just some leeks and cabbages to come out. Out shallots, onions and broad beans are in and away.
Here's a little late harvest..
(http://www.ibleep.co.uk/rc/bit-of-a-late-harvest.jpg)
We also managed to get half our compost bins and frames in
(http://www.ibleep.co.uk/rc/bins-and-frames.jpg)
Hopefully this will help us get some squashes and cukes on the go later this year and protected a bit from the Northerly winds
How is everyone? Have you ordered your seeds yet?
With best wishes for a great (and a drier) 2013
Roy and Tanya
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That's superb, very impressive.
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Fantastic!!
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You have worked hard and done an amazing job. I can't wait to follow your progress this year.
Regards
Bluecar
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Loving your bins and frames set up. :blob7: :icon_cheers: :glasses9: :wave: